Franchise Tag Bouye?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by jradMIT, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Hall of Fame

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    I don't think letting him walk is all that easy of a decision. I could see if there was a promising young corner on practice squad or if Robert Nelson had looked better, but neither of those things happened.

    The reason I say you have to entertain keeping him is:

    1) we've had issues covering good TE's and Bouye was pretty good against those guys when he played them. And he wasn't a world beater at all, but he made his share of plays.

    2) Even if Kareem stays at corner you're looking at kjo who is coming off of a Foot injury which is an issue at CB.

    3) Kareem is not all that as a corner plus he tends to miss time here and there.

    4) Joseph is another year older and has another year of wear on his already injury riddled body.

    There could very easily be a scenario where Bouye is the best corner active on gameday. That's not saying much for the cornerback position but iiwii.

    Now if you let him go I think you have to take a corner in the draft. But, you're still looking at a rookie who very easily could be called upon to see major snaps. Heck, even if Bouye stayed I'm still taking a corner in this draft, albeit in the later rounds.
     
  2. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    Good info. I don't see it happening though. While a solid tackler and very natural in zone, he has proven too frail to take on multiple hits - so who between he and Hal is in the box? Kareem's also proven that when healthy he can be a great slot corner (without neck and hamstring injuries, we may win against NE). Joseph is LCB, Johnson is RCB and Kareem is slot. Bouye is the wildcard depending on his contract.
     
  3. Bulls on Parade

    Bulls on Parade 2017 Astros: Earn It!

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    Sure do if that's the case. I'm worried he's not going to re-sign here long term. He was pretty pissed off going into training camp last year when it came to a lack of contract negotiations, but kept his professionalism in tact.
     
  4. deucetx

    deucetx All Pro

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    Have to differ on some opinions. Any that have watched Bouye during his time here realize he wasn't a 'one year wonder'. It was actually solid player development. From the moment he was on the roster he improved each season when watching him closely and as someone who played the position for years I tend to do so. Seems more in these current days in the league we continually expect immediate results instead of allowing some players to develop at their position. Corner is graded by many to be the most difficult position on the defensive side of the ball in today's NFL especially with the rules involved. In a league where you spend more time than not in the nickel/dime packages than your base it is becoming more and more imperative you have three good corners.

    Now with that said let's really look at the position. Kareem Jackson's skillset is not well suited for corner. It was nearly apparent at the beginning of his career and then he had a breakout season and carried it onto another where he showed more ability to getting his head around, locating the ball and opening up his hips better when running with the receiver. Unfortunately, the past couple of seasons he has reverted to his previous technique for whatever reason. It is flawed to say the least. He honestly would be better off attempting to develop himself at the safety position rather than corner or maybe working the slot for the short/intermediate coverage that generally shapes from that position.

    While Jonathan Joseph is still capable even with his frustrating moments of giving so much cushion to receivers he, Jackson and Kevin Johnson have one issue in common. They continually get injured. I am not sure how any can feel comfortable relying on them for 16 games because they play musical chairs on the injury report. Johnson, of course, is still young but has had foot issues two seasons in a row. And while his play has been promising he has not played as well as Bouye did last season so is still developing his skillset.

    With all that in mind do I feel the need to franchise Bouye? Maybe. Matters how the Texans feel regarding the talks they have had with Bouye already. I think he can be resigned without the tag honestly if handled properly. With that said, we should definitely not let him get away. Corners are valuable to say the least and last season was arguably our best. There is a reason there are a number of teams and fanbases targeting him right now.

    As for the Hopkins franchise talk, he isn't a free agent until 2018 so the possibility of him being tagged isn't until next season so it doesn't play into the Bouye decision except in the case if the Texans intend on extended him this season and his cap impact for 2017. But if handled correctly they will make the impact fall onto the next season or something of that nature instead of the same one they intend to franchise someone like Bouye. In other words, it isn't something that should even affect this decision. Well, unless we have chimpanzees working the front office.
     
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  5. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

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    I"m not keen on letting him walk, but I'm even less keen on using a franchise tag on him. He simply doesn't have the long-term track record to justify it. In my mind, he'd be another overpaid option in the Texans long history of overpaying.

    It's just too risky to put that much of the cap space on a still "largely unproven" commodity. I'd make him a reasonable 4-5 yr contract offer and take the risk that he walks.
     
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  6. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel BUENO!

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    I'd feel like I was maybe watching Glover Quin go out the door again (I know, not a safety but still...) so I'd tag him. I'd take the chance of letting JJo go, saving $6 million in cap space and then start Bouye opposite Kareem Jackson and/or Kevin Johnson. Bouye gets the tag for a year to see if he can handle the pressure and can play well enough to earn a long-term contract. Ideally (IMO) we get it right and our corners become Bouye and Johnson with Kareem being the 3rd corner. Joseph is getting close to dropping off and looked like we might have kept him too long last year for much of the season.
     
  7. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Wanna know how piss him off more ... ?
     
  8. ChampionTexan

    ChampionTexan Site Contributor

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    The story (which I can't find any good links to) is that the Texans attempted to extend him during the season, and Bouye chose (wisely) to bet on himself. You don't define what you consider reasonable, but I'm guessing that Bouye believes there's huge payday waiting for him in free agency and isn't going to pass up the chance to see exactly what that means unless he's franchised or the Texans make him what you'd probably consider an unreasonable offer.
     
  9. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    Glover Quin was more valuable than Bouye. Quin played a ton of roles for us and he did it well for multiple years. He had multiple skill sets. Bouye has one skill set, playing short coverage, which is what most CBs in this league can do. Quin did things that are difficult to find in players, Bouye does not.

    Definitely not a Glover Quin situation.
     
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  10. ChampionTexan

    ChampionTexan Site Contributor

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    Another difference is that we can pretty well rest assured that if they don't keep Bouye, it will be due to the money and not spending that large a percentage of the cap on the CB position. When Quin left, he signed a contract with the Lions that while more than the Texans ended up giving Ed Reed, wasn't all that much more.

    Bottom line - the Texans let Glover Quin walk because they made the decision they wanted someone else taking that roster spot. If AJB ends up walking, it will be all financial.
     
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  11. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

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    If we weren't in such dire cap circumstances, I might be OK with it (the tag). Quin we could've kept for considerably less, but Rick Smith was convinced we had cheaper guys who could fill the role.

    http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/10/26/detroit-lions-glover-quin/92802240/

    That's the kind of multi-year deal I'd hope for with Bouye, but don't expect with our cap issues and our GM.

    The story you reference is here - http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-unlikely-to-use-franchise-tag-10934353.php

    Franchising him won't make him happy, especially if he wants to test those waters. I'm hoping for a cap-friendly deal at 11.5-12.5 mil/Yr. (which would put him @ #6-8 of top CB salaries per Sportrac) It's reasonable, and allows him some security...along with NOT having to learn a new defense.
     
  12. PolarBear

    PolarBear Rookie

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    I want to keep him. JJo is probably only good for one more year, Kareem Jackson is not a good corner (but might be a decent safety), and Johnson is injury prone. Most teams play at least 3 wideouts, so having depth at corner can't hurt. If we can't extend him, I'd hold my nose on the $14M and franchise him, but I would be trying for a deal like:

    http://overthecap.com/player/byron-maxwell/1535/

    Byron Maxwell signed a 6 year, $63 million contract with the Eagles on March 12, 2015. Maxwell received $25 million fully guaranteed. Maxwell's annual cap numbers for the six years don't eclipse $10M until the last 3 years, and there is zero dead money after the first 3 years of the deal.

    That would preserve cap, give Bouye security in a great system for him, and let us keep a good corner that we developed.
     
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  13. TexansSeminole

    TexansSeminole Hall of Fame

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    The only reason Maxwell has such a favorable dead money figure is because he was traded 1 year after signing a 6 year deal with the Eagles. $6M of that guaranteed money was through the signing bonus and another $6.5M was through a roster bonus for the 2015 season. Another $1M was his base salary in 2015. The terms of the trade are such that the Eagles have to pay for his signing bonus of $6M (they ate the remaining $4.8M of it in 2016 after paying $1.2M of it in 2015). The Dolphins didn't have to worry about that number over the course of the contract. So, when the Dolphins acquired him in 2016, the Eagles were on the hook or had already paid $13.5M of his $25M in guaranteed money. The Dolphins then renegotiated his contract, slightly increasing his guaranteed money from that point on from $11.5M to $13M through his base salary in order to lower his cap hits for the first two years of the contract. This, of course, works for Maxwell, because he gets paid regardless of the team that's paying him and receives more guaranteed money. It works for the Dolphins because most of the guaranteed money was already paid to him by the Eagles and they simply wanted to even out his cap hits for the next two years. He also played really poorly with the Eagles, so the Dolphins were protecting themselves so they could pay less for him in cap money before deciding whether to cut him if he didn't pan out.

    That is a very unique situation that involves another team eating a significant portion of his guaranteed money, and therefore his dead cap figure. You won't sign a player outright on that kind of deal, so don't at all expect a deal like that for Bouye.

    I think that situation is actually a good comparison to the Bouye situation. Here's a guy in Maxwell that played with a great defense, with good players, especially up front, with an excellent pass rush and great coaching. The Seahawks let him go, because they knew they could get similar production from another player or two and not have the defense fall off, given that Maxwell doesn't possess any unique traits. That's exactly what happened. The Seahawks haven't missed Maxwell at all, while Maxwell became one of the most targeted corners in the league in Philly. He was promptly cut one year after signing a huge deal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  14. PHILLYTEXANFAN

    PHILLYTEXANFAN NO QB DRAFTED 2017

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    If he walks he walks. Im bot losing sleep over Bouye
     
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  15. OptimisticTexan

    OptimisticTexan Veteran

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    I think the Texans need to remind him that he's just one of several pieces that make up this defense. Would love to see you hang around and enjoy the ride but it would be 100% on the teams terms. At this juncture, the cannot afford to be handicapped salary cap wise if he turns into a one-season wonder. If he hangs with this defense...very good chance he could duplicate his success. Go to a team that's going to pay ridiculous money and they're going to be building a defense and you will not have the benefit of Watt and Clowney making your job easier. I'd offer him a simple 3 year contract with 2 years guaranteed at 7-8M a season. If he proves 2016 wasn't a fluke, he's back in the FA pool at the end of 2019, unless the Texans exercise the option. Either way, his payday is going way up. That's a win-win for an UDFA who just had his only very good season.
     
  16. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

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    If he could receive probably 20-25 % more in compensation including guaranteed money over 4 years or more from another team like the Titans who already have a franchise QB why wouldn't he make that move vs staying here in Houston ? If it's me I'm gone in a heart beat. Easy decision.
     
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  17. jradMIT

    jradMIT All Pro

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    Yeah whats missing is the fact the Salary Cap is set to rapidly increase over the next few years. So there will be salary inflation coming about, numbers like used to indicate a huge figure like 10M a year won't mean the same as they used to before. Looking at Bouye, he will easily get a deal worth 10M a year, the question is will he take a 10M year deal from Houston or bolt when someone offers him 12M+ a year.
     
  18. OptimisticTexan

    OptimisticTexan Veteran

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    How excited will he be about that contract if he finds out that he's not near the CB everyone thought without the Texans defensive front 7 helping him become the DB he thought he had become? This has happened many times in the NFL and all you can hope for is that he's got a lot of money tucked away for a rainy day. Tough to set aside that pride and go back to work at a veteran's minimum contract with incentives.
     
  19. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

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  20. amazing80

    amazing80 Site Contributor

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    If we let Bouye walk without an offer I will be very disappointed. JJo is getting older, Jackson is garbage. To have Bouye and KJo as our future at CB would be great for us. I would trade Jackson to keep Bouye if money was an issue. I think Jackson and Joseph need to redo their deals. Extend Joseph another 1-2 years and tell Jackson to re-structure to a team friendly deal. They are not our future on defense. Kevin Johnson, Bouye and Nelson are.
     

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