Fools in the Hands of an Aggravated Texan!!

[thunderkyss]

Before this offseason I thought we were about 3 or 4 offseasons away from being competitive (assuming the current GM makes good decisions).

What do you consider competitive?? 8-8, or a shot at the play-offs.

Now that we've given up 2 second round picks for a backup QB, we can probably add another year onto that estimate. I'm also starting to question the current front office's ability to make good decisions.

I'd really like to hear you explain this one. IMHO, it's like adding a Kolb, or a Stanton, without having to wait two years for them to get up to speed, with the same second round pick it would cost to acquire them.

Matt Schaub had one good game? That's awesome! So did Giff Nielson! So did Bucky Richardson! In fact most backup QBs are capable of one good game. It means nothing.

I'm fine with that. I can agree. But I know our front office based their decision on more than that one game.

We should have used our picks to draft the most talented players available and pick up a QB in the draft the next time a good one is available (not this year). Only time will tell who's right or who's wrong, but don't tell me we can't question the front office.

Question the front office, no one is stopping you.

But with this pick-up, with the Ahman Green pick-up, my front office is telling me we're going to be competitive in '07. I like their outlook much better than yours.

 

[LORK 88]

These are the cold hard facts that we gave too much.

Matt Schaub 6'5" 237
cmp: 84; att: 161; yds: 1033; cmp%: 52.2; ypa: 6.42; lng: 59; td: 6; int: 6; sacks:12; rating: 69.2

Sage Rosenfels 6'4" 225
cmp: 81; att: 148; yds: 1041; cmp%: 54.7; ypa: 7.03; lng: 77; td: 9; int: 7; sacks: 4; rating: 77.6

This was what came up when I did a player search on espn.com. If I was Sage I would be on a hotline to my agent cursing him.

How is that a fact that we gave too much? If anything, it just means that Rosenfels is a cabable backup. Rosenfels has been around much longer which is why his numbers as a backup look much better.

For 5 years there has been a steady stream of posters telling us not to question the front office.

We knew the front office was making bad decisions and we were right. I can't tell you how many times I've read, "If you're so much smarter than Casserly, then why aren't YOU the GM?" The truth is that our front office ran this franchise into the ground.

Before this offseason I thought we were about 3 or 4 offseasons away from being competitive (assuming the current GM makes good decisions). Now that we've given up 2 second round picks for a backup QB, we can probably add another year onto that estimate. I'm also starting to question the current front office's ability to make good decisions.

Matt Schaub had one good game? That's awesome! So did Giff Nielson! So did Bucky Richardson! In fact most backup QBs are capable of one good game. It means nothing.

We should have used our picks to draft the most talented players available and pick up a QB in the draft the next time a good one is available (not this year). Only time will tell who's right or who's wrong, but don't tell me we can't question the front office.

2 things: 1) Until the Front Office makes a big, visible mistake, I will continue to support them. Until they do, its nothing more than being paranoid worried that they're Casserly and Capers. Also, where did I say that you couldn't question the current FO? 2) Read what I said in the "What the Future Holds" section.


I thank everyone else for taking the time to read it and all the positive feedback, I really appriciate it and Im glad everyones enjoyed it!

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

great post lork!

It's all about minimizing risk and maximazing return to the best you can.

Quite simply the FO felt Schaub has a lot of potential and can lead our team to great things. They also felt that IF either of the qb's fell to us at 8, they would come with more risk than schaub. (we also get to use our 1st rd pick on another elite player that will help our team)

There is no telling how long any of the qb's would have to learn whether we drafted them in the 1st or 2nd this year. Schaub will start day 1, therefore we are getting more bang for the buck than sitting a first round pick for the better half of half a season.

 

[DocBar]

in my opinion, r.bush wouldn't have lived up to the hype if he came to houston. the same goes for v.young. the texans were complete and utter **** coming into the 2006 season.

r.bush went to orleans...who got a great coach, a decent line, and bush had a great compliment in mccalister. v.young went to a team who had a great coach, and a promising potential in team completeness (jmo). this just proves my opinion of drafting m.williams was the best move last year. the texans d the previous year was horrible.

the addition of williams and d.ryans was a great step forward last year for the texans. that's going to be a sure-shot combo for years to come. and i hate to go john madden on all of you, but "the team with the most points at the end of the game wins." r.bush and v.young couldn't stop the colts, jags, etc. from scoring more than the texans, so lat year was a great step forward.

w/ schaub, it's hard for me to believe the texans didn't overpay. in my opinion, to prove this guy isn't a schmuck, he's going to have to seriously contribute to the texans getting a winning season. 9-7 or better. if not, i would believe they overpaid. and i don't even want to know what's going to happen if he comes in and just k***'s all over the field.

R. Bush didn't live up to his hype at all. If the rest of the sAints hadn't played so well, we would be hearing how smart we were to pass on him. VY made some things happen, but got VERY lucky through most of it. In the NFL, I prefer to rely on skill than luck. Busted plays don't break your way every time. Eventually they will average out and then we'll see how VY does when relying on more than his legs.

 

[Yankee_In_TX]

LOL, well said. Props for you. My friends complained about Carr. My friends complained about out FA. My friends complained about Schaub.

I really would like someone to create the "You're Rick Smith" game. Then they can figure out how unrealistic all their "plans" were/are. People don't seem to understand with TONS of needs on the team, and little money to spend on FA's, you really can't sign LT, Merriweather, PacMan Jones and then go draft Brady Quinn. I think because of our losing history, people will be unhappy with ANY move we make until we win, plain and simple. I'm sure if we signed Peyton Manning people here would be complaining.

BTW, I can't say this enough:

But What About the Divine Ones Known as Vince and Reggie!!!
We didn’t draft them, get over it. Reggie fit in well in New Orleans, Vince lead the Titans to almost making the playoffs, and Mario played his ass off with an injured foot that limited him. Did we draft Reggie? No. Did we draft Vince? No. Should we of drafted either of them? That question is irrelevant. We did make a mistake to extend Carr (and McNair even admitted it), but we just did everything possible to correct that mistake as best we could. There is no point to dwelling on the ‘what ifs’ of the 2006 draft, all we can do is move forward and progress as a team. It’s understood that people will continue to focus on last year’s draft and hold it against us, but who knows what happens next year. Vince could get depended on too much and crack, Bush might not progress, and Mario could make the pro bowl. Then again, it could be the opposite. Nobody knows, that’s all in the future and its unfair comparing apples to oranges to bananas to begin with. All we need to focus on is out of all this is how our team performs as a whole, the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Yankee_In_TX]

R. Bush didn't live up to his hype at all. If the rest of the sAints hadn't played so well, we would be hearing how smart we were to pass on him. VY made some things happen, but got VERY lucky through most of it. In the NFL, I prefer to rely on skill than luck. Busted plays don't break your way every time. Eventually they will average out and then we'll see how VY does when relying on more than his legs.

If we had taken Bush he'd currently be on the IR with a bad knee

 

[sk8termom]

Great post Lork!

 

[deucebigalow4]

How about this spin on the 2 2nd rounders:

1) This year's 2 for Schaub (bargain)

2) Next year's 2 for 7 million in cap relief and no QB controversy. I'm not sure, but I feel like 7 million allows us to "fill holes" and "address needs" in FA like one pick in next year's second round could have done.

Granted, this washes away our 1st pick on Carr which we could have used on Julius Peppers, but who's counting?

 

[V Man]

Great Post Lork. When you get down with school, maybe you can be the Texans writer for the Express News here in SA (since we need one that actually now something about the team).

 

[V Man]

These are the cold hard facts that we gave too much.

Matt Schaub 6'5" 237
cmp: 84; att: 161; yds: 1033; cmp%: 52.2; ypa: 6.42; lng: 59; td: 6; int: 6; sacks:12; rating: 69.2

Sage Rosenfels 6'4" 225
cmp: 81; att: 148; yds: 1041; cmp%: 54.7; ypa: 7.03; lng: 77; td: 9; int: 7; sacks: 4; rating: 77.6

This was what came up when I did a player search on espn.com. If I was Sage I would be on a hotline to my agent cursing him.

When will people learn you can't go by stats alone. Hell if you went by Carr's comp. % he is an upper level QB.

 

[MATRIX]

Originally Posted by big sarge
These are the cold hard facts that we gave too much.

Matt Schaub 6'5" 237
cmp: 84; att: 161; yds: 1033; cmp%: 52.2; ypa: 6.42; lng: 59; td: 6; int: 6; sacks:12; rating: 69.2

Sage Rosenfels 6'4" 225
cmp: 81; att: 148; yds: 1041; cmp%: 54.7; ypa: 7.03; lng: 77; td: 9; int: 7; sacks: 4; rating: 77.6

This was what came up when I did a player search on espn.com. If I was Sage I would be on a hotline to my agent cursing him.

Yea I'd love to hear that call, would go like this...

Sage: WTF, I'm a better QB and he is starting and I didn't even get more money.

Agent: Sage, calm down...

Sage: CALM DOWN! I got shafted.

Agent: Sage, we have been over this before.

Sage: We have not, the even had me thinking I was the new starter.

Agent: Sage, I meant in Miami to name one team.

Sage: What about Miami, this is Houston.

Agent: Yea, and they know you couldn't make the starters spot on that team.

Sage: What are you saying?

Agent: That your a good backup. But, this guy Schaub is younger and more talented than you.

Sage: Says who?

Agent: Many...plus Houston knows you couldn't beat out A.J. or...

Sage: Ok,ok... I got it, I don't have the ability.

Agent: Right, this kid is younger and most in the NFL feel better a top 15 QB. They don't think you are one, and so far they are right.

Sage: Yea, maybe I should just be glad I have a job.

Agent: Thats right Sage... I'll talk to you soon.

Hangs up, and thinks to self
* The NFL thinks Schaub is a legit QB and my guy can't beat out bad QBs and he feels he should start. I need to drop this guy, I don't need the headache every year he fails to win a starting job*

 

[Hervoyel]

in my opinion, r.bush wouldn't have lived up to the hype if he came to houston. the same goes for v.young. the texans were complete and utter **** coming into the 2006 season.

I was very much against drafting Vince Young last year (and obviously very wrong) and so I'm going to say that (in hindsight) I disagree with the part of your post that I put in bold.

Vince Young surprised a large number of people and, truth be told the Titans were pretty much "complete and utter ****" too before he took the field. No he didn't play defense or any of the other stuff that's brought up to illustrate that he wasn't responsibile for their turnaround but I have eyes and I see a leader who elevates the play of people around him. That's special and I'm now sorry that we all didn't make the pressure a little heavier on the Texans last season. It probably wouldn't have made much difference but still, he should be here playing QB.

 

[Sco-tai]

Am I the only one that is a bit curious as to the title of this thread.

So...Lork...are you the Aggravated Texan...and the front office would be the fools. Or are Carr & Davis/Williams the fools...and the F.O would represent the Aggravated Texan.

Your article wasn't very A.D.D friendly...but I made it. Yet I still found no answers as to how your title fits the content.

I'm having a blonde-moment, I suppose. Thanks in advance.

 

[Marcus]

I was very much against drafting Vince Young last year (and obviously very wrong) and so I'm going to say that (in hindsight) I disagree with the part of your post that I put in bold.

Vince Young surprised a large number of people and, truth be told the Titans were pretty much "complete and utter ****" too before he took the field. No he didn't play defense or any of the other stuff that's brought up to illustrate that he wasn't responsibile for their turnaround but I have eyes and I see a leader who elevates the play of people around him. That's special and I'm now sorry that we all didn't make the pressure a little heavier on the Texans last season. It probably wouldn't have made much difference but still, he should be here playing QB.

Next to kidnapping Bob McNair's family and telling him he would never see them alive again if he didn't draft Vince, I didn't see how the pressure could have been heavier. McNair's mind was made up.

 

[LORK 88]

Am I the only one that is a bit curious as to the title of this thread.

So...Lork...are you the Aggravated Texan...and the front office would be the fools. Or are Carr & Davis/Williams the fools...and the F.O would represent the Aggravated Texan.

Your article wasn't very A.D.D friendly...but I made it. Yet I still found no answers as to how your title fits the content.

I'm having a blonde-moment, I suppose. Thanks in advance.

Its a play off Jonathan Edward's "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". I am the aggrivated Texan and the fools are represented well by the media and everyone who decides to misjudge what has transpired the past week and mock us rather than take the time to understand why we did what we did.

 

[swtbound07]

If I am reading this right it seems to me that you are not the only person who thinks that Carr has been treated unfairly, I will miss him with all my heat. Everytime I think of the Texans I think of Carr. This is one Carr fan who will be watching him if "no, where ever" he goes

....not that there is anything wrong with that. All your "heat"? Does mrs. carr know about your bond?

 

[TexanExile]

These are the cold hard facts that we gave too much.

Matt Schaub 6'5" 237
cmp: 84; att: 161; yds: 1033; cmp%: 52.2; ypa: 6.42; lng: 59; td: 6; int: 6; sacks:12; rating: 69.2

Sage Rosenfels 6'4" 225
cmp: 81; att: 148; yds: 1041; cmp%: 54.7; ypa: 7.03; lng: 77; td: 9; int: 7; sacks: 4; rating: 77.6

Interesting point, but not exactly the whole story. The guy Schaub couldn't beat out of a job is a gazillion-dollar-contract media darling who inexplicably gets a pass for everything he does poorly on the field. Atlanta can't possibly admit the Vick experiment's failure yet. Rosenfels, on the other hand, couldn't beat out the following QBs, including several SECOND-stringers, who had no such protection from getting benched: Jay Fiedler, AJ Feeley, Gus Frerotte, Brian Griese, and Ray Lucas.

I gotta think "potential" is measured with a few more variables than you listed there. But yeah, the straight-stats comparison is interesting to look at. I think the Texans paid fair market value and can't wait to see whether we're all right or wrong here.

 

[HuttoKarl]

Interesting point, but not exactly the whole story. The guy Schaub couldn't beat out of a job is a gazillion-dollar-contract media darling who inexplicably gets a pass for everything he does poorly on the field. Atlanta can't possibly admit the Vick experiment's failure yet. Rosenfels, on the other hand, couldn't beat out the following QBs, including several SECOND-stringers, who had no such protection from getting benched: Jay Fiedler, AJ Feeley, Gus Frerotte, Brian Griese, and Ray Lucas.

I gotta think "potential" is measured with a few more variables than you listed there. But yeah, the straight-stats comparison is interesting to look at. I think the Texans paid fair market value and can't wait to see whether we're all right or wrong here.

You forgot "David Carr".

 

[thunderkyss]

These are the cold hard facts that we gave too much.

Matt Schaub 6'5" 237
cmp: 84; att: 161; yds: 1033; cmp%: 52.2; ypa: 6.42; lng: 59; td: 6; int: 6; sacks:12; rating: 69.2

Sage Rosenfels 6'4" 225
cmp: 81; att: 148; yds: 1041; cmp%: 54.7; ypa: 7.03; lng: 77; td: 9; int: 7; sacks: 4; rating: 77.6

This was what came up when I did a player search on espn.com. If I was Sage I would be on a hotline to my agent cursing him.

I honestly don't think we could have paid too much at all. While I agree, we know more about Sage on our team, than we do about Schaub..... & Sage may be every bit as good(maybe even better). & we paid a lot less for Sage, than we did for Schaub.

But we got rid of David. I'd give up our remaining picks in '07 & '08 to be able to say that, if I had to.

Think about it. Rick Smith & Gary Kubiak were ready to deal David for a 5th..... of Whiskey. Then McNair got into the mix, and all of a sudden, we had to find a better option.

I think Kubiak sold McNair on Plummer being that "better option" but Shanahan screwed us(I think we should demote little Shanahan to Ice Machine Supervisor).

So now what??

I don't think Kubiak would have had a problem going with Sage & Drew Stanton(or Kevin Kolb) in '07, but McNair wasn't having it. But he bought Matt Schaub, and Kubiak & Smith moved quickly, silently, and surely.

If David couldn't get the job done in '06... I had no problem with Kubiak going with Sage. After what I saw in the preseason, I had no doubt that Sage would be as good as David(not saying much) & most likely better. That our season wouldn't be lost, if David got hurt.

I feel the same way now.

Oh, I'll be upset, if we end up cutting Schaub, or realize he is at best a back-up. But at least I know the best QB will start on Sunday, and not the one we hope will someday be the best QB we got.

 

[big sarge]

The title of this thread was did we overpay for Schaub???? I personally think we did. I am not saying he will never come to fruit, but that would be like buying the first car u see on the lot because everyone says it has a pretty paint job and they saw it on the road a few times. I was merely making a point that according to his performance, and lack of experience we overpaid. I didn't hear anyone talking about how Rosenfels lost out to crappy QB's when they wanted to bench Carr and put him in.

Basically alot of people think Carr was a crappy QB. He showed exactly that on the field. Schaub maybe the answer to the question in Houston, but I still think we overpaid for him. I wish Sage and Schaub and Carr the best and I hope they all get a chance to prove themselves.

 

[texansfanquecaneh]

Great post. I like what you said.
Tough to say if we overpaid for Schaub, but we needed a QB. I was thinking of the defense & Kalil this year, blue chip LT next year. If the GM thought the same, we wouldn't pick a QB until 2009 & then have him sit a year. Obviously they weren't going to wait that long-that's why they made the trade.
My concerns are (the lack of a real) C, having to draft a WR because of releasing Moulds (I wasn't expecting that)-with one less pick, and giving up a pick next year in a loaded draft.
But, I guess it's still better than waiting 4 years for a QB.

 

[Sco-tai]

Its a play off Jonathan Edward's "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God". I am the aggrivated Texan and the fools are represented well by the media and everyone who decides to misjudge what has transpired the past week and mock us rather than take the time to understand why we did what we did.

Yeah, I got the reference, I was just trying to figure out how you were relating it to the Texans and who made who (to reference AC/DC...hehe).

Thanks.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Thank You!!! Great post!!

Rep your way.

 

[texans83]

I did it, read it all!! thanks for the good post.