First Pick Decision

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Runner, May 8, 2006.

  1. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8,323
    Likes Received:
    626
  2. 66cobra

    66cobra Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Hardin, Tx
    good one, thanks....
    I can't believe that Bush wanted $28 mill guaranteed, while Williams was happy with $24.5 guaranteed. Even though Dogra wanted the same $28M, I am glad to see that Williams was happy with the contract and settled for lesser guaranteed money. It kind of makes Bush look selfish...
     
  3. TexanFan881

    TexanFan881 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    59
    Location:
    Illinois
    good luck signing him New Orleans...:redtowel:

    I still wish we would have just gave Bush the money though :shots:
     
  4. dat_boy_yec

    dat_boy_yec All Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    25
    I think the Bush camp would have come down a little bit had they kept negotiating. I think it was a matter of them wanting to get Williams and focusing on signing him.
     
  5. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8,323
    Likes Received:
    626
    I though the article was interesting in that it showed some of the process during the decision.
     
  6. Ironist

    Ironist Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    1
    Williams wasn't happy with 24.5; if he was, we certainly would have signed him for that. Why give him 26.5 when he's happy with 24.5? His asking price was actually above 26.5, rumored to be around 27 or 28 as well. What it came down to was that he was the first to budge; he agreed to 26.5 before Reggie.

    And I dont think you can call Bush selfish...last year Smith got 26, and Bush is a much better player, so he probably deserved 28. Besides, thats the game of compromise; ask above what you're worth to get as close as possible.
     
  7. Hulk75

    Hulk75 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Santa Cruz,California
    Yea no kidding
     
  8. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Messages:
    33,048
    Likes Received:
    2,894
    Location:
    Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
    I'm seriously doubting if Bush ever wanted to be here to begin with.
     
  9. Second Honeymoon

    Second Honeymoon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    437
    Location:
    The Woodlands, Texas
    dude is a troll but sadly i agree with him. sometimes you just have a gut feeling about something and this just doesnt feel like it was a well conceived decision with the #1 overall pick. it felt thrown together, last minute and a total panic by McNair/Kubes/Cass.

    i have some big problems with the pick of Mario at #1 pick overall.

    not the consensus #1 pick. the consensus pick was Bush. irregardless of whether Mario ends up being better for the Texans, the bottom line is that we didnt get the value for the pick that we could have gotten. trading down to #4 you are guaranteed to get either DBrick or Mario....period...end of story. Either pick would have been a GREAT pick at #4. with this scenario we dont have to pay the #1 overall draft pick premium, you probably get a couple 2nd-3rd round picks extra and MOST IMPORTANTLY you get a player that comes in without the weight of the world (well at least city) on his back. Trading down was ONLY smart decision once you decided Bush was not gonna be the pick at #1. but of course trading down would have been the smart thing to do but smart and Texans front office are rarely used in the same sentence.

    spits in the face of the fans. i know we all love our team and can eventually delude ourselves enough to make peace with the pick, but the Texans mishandled PR across the board since the end of the season. if the offseason goal was to alienate the fanbase with arrogance and a holier than thou attitude then consider the mission accomplished. the front office had a good offseason overall but on the biggest stage they failed their fans. they failed their fans not by not picking Bush or Young but by not getting the most out of their 1st pick and then acting like they did the right thing. they did the right thing by drafting for need on the line but neither Mario or DBrick were worth the 1st pick overall....

    drafting on measurables as opposed to results. mario is a freak of nature. we all know that. superior athlete yada yada yada. bottom line is dude did NOTHING at NC State to warrant #1 overall pick. he even played alongside 2 1st round defensive lineman and didnt dominate unless it was against an ACC basketball school (Wake Forest, Duke, etc.) Before the combine the guy was no higher than the #7 rated player on most boards....after combine he shoots up to #2 on a lot of boards...did NC State play a football game during that time? how does a player go from barely cracking Top 10 to being labeled the best player out of college that year? but leave it to Casserley to lay on egg on his Swan Song before he is 'promoted' to NFL Front Office....guy always has to prove that he is smarter than everyone else....he can never make the safe pick, always has to reach for the myopic mirage

    but anywho, the draft pretty much fell right for us the rest of the way and the additions of Flanagan, Moulds and Weaver should really improve the team. I just think we could have really made a bigger splash in the draft and in the player's minds. Nowadays, the NFL is like college football..its all about the program and were still viewed as an expansion outfit, reaching for Mario reinforced that view in my opinion...i want players to want to come to Houston and drafting Bush or Young or trading down and doing smart thing would have helped us in that regards..by staying put and not drafting best player because of measurables and rumors just sends the wrong message...

    well rant over, i am looking forward to the season and hopefully our first non-losing season...ill take 8-8 in a heartbeat.

    oh another quick poll. would you rather beat colts or cowboys this year? i say without pause Colts, but i dont have the Houston Inferiority Complex that most Houstonians have towards Dallas....I want to punish Peyton this year :)

    doug from the woodlands
     
    bckey likes this.
  10. 66cobra

    66cobra Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Hardin, Tx
    I don't know if you are calling me a troll (been here since the Texans started up, went thru the first message board, now on this one since it got overhauled 2 years ago, I may only have 89 posts but I just don't have a lot to say, even though I really don't have the time since I DO coach), but I do agree with some of what you are saying. However, I think this was a smart pick because I think we need help on defense as well. Oh, yes I accidentally put $24.5M instead of $26.5M because that is what I remembered for some reason. Even so, $26.5 is still cheaper than $28M.
     
  11. Texans86

    Texans86 All Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Wow. Just...wow.

    Your arguement has been torn apart on many other threads so many times, I can't even begin to dissect it. It hurt my head to read. I kept blinking hoping it was simply a figment of my imagination. It never went away.

    The draft is over now. Mario Williams plays for the Texans. Reggie Bush is supposed to play for the New Orleans Saints if they can sign him.

    Simply put...please get over it.

    Edit: Reflects opinion on Honeymoon's post
     
  12. Second Honeymoon

    Second Honeymoon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    437
    Location:
    The Woodlands, Texas
    how can you tear apart someone's opinion? sorry that I dont think they got value out of their #1 pick. no amount of homering by anyone will make me change my mind until I see Mario produce consistently like a #1 overall pick against quality competition....which he has NEVER DONE IN HIS CAREER.

    i would have loved the draft if we would have gotten Mario or DBrick at #4 and a few extra picks in a very deep draft. that sucking sound you are hearing is our secondary. trading down would have allowed us to bring in some depth at both the CB and FS position.

    i am not saying the sky is falling but we failed once again to make a splash in this league. we are still david carr's team and that aint exactly a good thing. we are still viewed as an expansion franchise that blunders picks away by the vast majority of NFL players and fans. hopefully Kubes can work some magic on Carr and the offense, because the Carr experiment has been an abject failure so far.....thanks Casserley

    btw I predicted last years embarassment last May and was called an idiot, moron, etc. so sorry if I am realistic about our teams moves...however this year I predict a 5-11 season with a lot of close games that expose Carr's inability to finish games and lead teams to victory....

    Sorry I Am Not A Homer,


    doug from the woodlands
     
  13. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    8,688
    Likes Received:
    685
    Been reading MB's for months now but just got around to "regestering".

    First off, I'd say our FO and coaches know more about football and our team than we do, a lot more than me anyway. I'm really looking forward to all the changes, ie 4-3 defense and Kubes!

    If they could have traded down and gotten Mario or D'brick and more picks maybe they would have done that, it would have been a good move. But in order to move down...somebody has to be willing to move up. It just seems like there wasn't a whole lot of interest from other teams to move up to our spot. Meaning they didn't see the benefit in getting Reggie Bush over a Top 5 guy plus several other picks (that wouldn't be in THEIR best interest).

    At the end of the day I'm excited about the Mario pick. I was very pro bush all the months leading up to the 29th. I sure hope he can get to a better team some how to really showcase his stuff. I trust our new staff and think they know what their doing.

    Just out of curiosity (sp?)...How many teams had Reggie Bush as #1 and how many had Mario at #1 ..bpa#1. I've heard anywhere from 0 to 8 teams. If up to 8 that shows he's pretty special (given all the reggie hype and certainty). I wish Mario could have gotten a lot more publicity last season and everyone actually know about him and that he was an option. Seems like he really just was picked up on the radar in the last few weeks before the draft and that's why everyone is frantic and confused/upset.
     
  14. Texans86

    Texans86 All Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Thank you Ole Miss. Welcome to the board. One key thing that Honeymoon seems to be missing is the fact that no one wanted to trade. Yes it would have be awesome to pick at #4, but our record didn't warrant that. I was in the trade down camp as well, but we couldn't find a suitor. The arguement that we could have gotten so much for the #1 pick is irrelevant, since the Jets didn't want to move up.

    For further proof that they didn't want Reggie that much, you need to look no further than the second pick. If the Jets wouldn't give up what it would take to move up to #2, then they sure as heck wouldn't move up to #1. We weren't moving anywhere, and took the person we rated as #1. The BPA has many different aspects, and is not just the best athlete available (which arguably could go to Vince Young anyway).

    Reggie Bush could be great, he could be a bust. Mario Williams could be great, he could be a bust. Mr. Irrelevant could be great, he might not make a game in the NFL. You never know in the NFL. Let the guys put on some pads before passing judgement, please.
     
  15. Huge1

    Huge1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2006
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    5
    You have said this twice already, but the fact is that Mario was going no lower than #2, period. So this theory is irrelevent. The Texans were not going to risk dropping down too low to miss out on Williams. D'Brick was never on our radar.

    And as far as YOUR assessment that Bush was the "consensus" #1.....wrong again. Half of the GM's in the league had Bush and Mario tied atop of their draft boards. 6 are ON RECORD as having Mario as their #1 guy.

    I'll take the POTENTIAL NFL life span of a possible Hall of Fame defensive end over that of a possible Hall of Fame running back. I can't remember the last Super Bowl champion team that had the league's leading rusher, but I can remember the last Super Bowl champion team with a dominate defense and dominate pass rush. 13 weeks ago.....
     
  16. Texan in Japan

    Texan in Japan All Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Colorado
    Interesting article. No doubt it was a very tough decision and it seems they came to the conclusion not in a matter of days, but rather months of study and what ifs.

    Bush may become a thrilling player on par w/ some of the greatest, however, Mario is Kubes guy. For an offensive guru to want a DE over the greatest show on earth, must mean he REALLY believes that DE is better for the TEAM.

    As a fan, I can understand and support his decision. Doing the right thing, is sometimes the hardest thing to do.
     
  17. TexanAddict

    TexanAddict Texan 'til I Die

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    95
    Location:
    Houston
    The key to all trades is that you must have a trading partner. It has been stated over and over how the Jets at #4 had no interest in moving up to #1, and that it was the Texans that called them numerous times inquiring about a trade, not the other way around. This is further supported by the fact that once we did select Mario, the Jets made no real offer to even move up to select Bush at #2 from the Saints. You cannot force a trade to happen. There was no one willing to move up to our spot so our staff did the right thing by doing what is best for our TEAM.

    I personally am glad that this FO has the sense and confidence to make decisions that are right for the team without having to run them by the drooling fan base. This isn't American Idol, and this team isn't holding a popularity contest. Kubiak is trying to make sure that the pieces he needs to implement his brand of football will be in place when the season starts. So far I like the direction he seems to be taking, shoring up a horrible defense that gave games away last season and strengthening our O-Line that has been the biggest weakness of this team since year 1. I think that copping out for a flashier pick with marketability as opposed to trying to put the best product on the field possible would truly be like spitting in the face of the fans.

    This I agree with.

    I would also say the Colts, since I think that win would give us more credibility, but I'm hoping to beat em both! Go get em Mario!:twocents:
     
  18. titan hater

    titan hater Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bravo...Very good post...
     
  19. chuckm

    chuckm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Spring

    and I would have loved having Donald Trump for a father, Kay Parker for a mother, Lassie for a dog, Sharon Stone for a next door neighbor, ..... you make the best of your opportunities .....
     
  20. David's Busted Carr

    David's Busted Carr Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    18
    First of all that arguement is stale. What do you expect Mario to do? Get a sack on EVERY play? The guy had double digit sacks and 54 tackles for loss! 54!!! Not to mention he made two of his Dline teammates (Lawson & McCargo) first round picks. He freed them up to make plays even when he wasn't directly involved.

    Second If I'm not mistaken Mario's career hasn't even started yet. There is WORLD of difference between the NFL and college football. Lets see how the guy does when he has professional coaching and focuses on football 24/7.

    Finally I see your arguement with trading down, BUT if they had Mario targeted where were they going to trade? You couldn't move down to #4 b/c Mario would have been GONE. New Orleans wouldn't trade with you b/c they were guaranteed Mario/Bush (whichever one the Texans didn't take) so they had no incentive to trade. Casserly mentioned numerous times they called EVERY team in the top of the draft and nobody was interested in trading.

    And if you're so concerned with "value" how about the Texans making up for it by drafting Ryans (2nd) and Winston (3rd) which were both projected as 1st round picks!

    :fireball:
     

Share This Page