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FIRE BILL O'BRIEN NOW!!!

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Carr Bombed, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    I've said many times he needs to simplify the offense for Watson.

    His TO usage and Challenges need alot of work.

    No matter how many times I point out these faults, there will still be more post like yours put out there.
     
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  2. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Help me understand why you think "simplified" as opposed to O'Brien simply doing what Andy Reid did, re-design the offense around what his QB does well...?

     
  3. TheKDog

    TheKDog Hall of Fame

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    The offense actually looks far more complicated when he goes away from his usual stuff. More misdirection, more hot reads, more over the middle, more play action, etc
     
  4. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    They're the same thing.
     
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  5. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss It's good to be me... again. Staff Member

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    Funny thing is tables were turned last year. I remember plenty of times arguing BO'b should do some of these things to help Watson, to help the OL. You kept saying we didn't have the talent to stack WRs, run crossing routes or pick plays, run RB screens, move the pocket, pitch the ball to the RBs, etc... all the things we see Reid doing for Mahomes, or Shanahan for Garoppolo.

    I mean, yeah we have more talent on the OL, maybe that's the reason. Still can't run a RB screen though.
     
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  6. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss It's good to be me... again. Staff Member

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    More motion before the snap. Big tool in uncovering what the defense really wants to do.
     
  7. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist Staff Member

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    Watson does miss some stuff pre-snap in protection calls …. but that's not the problem here.

    Its the reads being overly "complex" , for the lack of a better word , they don't flow well , it seems so random rather than fluid. Add the route combinations and the unwavering "My system works even when it doesn't" and this is what you get.
    That last one is the biggest problem. He wont change. Just like in the Panthers game , they took away the deep routes with a two deep shell and he refused to do something different. Head Meet Wall.
    They also got steady pressure on Watson - What did OB do to combat that pressure ? …. Run plays right into that two deep shell.

    Watson's got his issues but his biggest issue is Bill O'Brien.
     
  8. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist Staff Member

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    @steelbtexan statement of simplify the offense is …. an oversimplification of what he really means.

    Its more about the play design than simplifying anything.

    The reads don't change a whole lot , identify man / zone - what's the safety(s) doing , what are the corners leveraging ? Watson knows what to do in each combination of those "reads". They are pretty elementary for the most part and basically the same no matter what "offense" you run. The ques don't vary a whole hell of a lot.

    What does vary is how you choose to attack those ques - that's what needs to change.
     
  9. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss It's good to be me... again. Staff Member

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    That's what I've been thinking for most of the last six years. But Osweiler... nah, I'm not going there. Too soon.

    But Watson has had a lot of control of the offense from day one. Calling protection, identifying the Mike, hot routes... he can audible but most of the time it looks like he's changing routes. Look at the hand signals he makes to the WRs.

    Back to Osweiler. I'm probably the only one to think so, but I think we were three plays away from the AFC Championship game. Yes, beating the Patriots.

    Several bad throws in there, but the offense was sound. I can't help but seeing Watson in that game. Everything else could have gone exactly the way it did except those bad throws.

    Right now I don't think Watson calls the offense as well as Osweiler or even Mallett did. He's a better QB, better athlete. But when he can make the calls at the line as well as they did.... he'll be the new Brady.
     
  10. TxnsJuggernaut1

    TxnsJuggernaut1 Veteran

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    I missed the last two Texans games because where I live if the Saints or Cowboys are playing at the same time on one of the channels our Texans are also on I do not get to see them.

    With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
     




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  11. TxnsJuggernaut1

    TxnsJuggernaut1 Veteran

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    I missed the last two Texans games because where I live if the Saints or Cowboys are playing at the same time on one of the channels our Texans are also on I do not get to see them.

    With that said I have to ask a question. Has Charles Omenihu gotten much burn the last two games? I think he could be a nice pass rushing addition.
     
  12. Texas Jake

    Texas Jake All Pro

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    I think a big part of the difference is Watson was taking what the defense was giving him instead of trying to force the homerun play. I think this was more about Watson taking the next step in his evolution as an NFL QB. Of course the improved play calling didn't hurt. But how much of the "improved play calling" was actually better plays vs better execution by the QB and the offense.
     
  13. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    Watson made the OL calls and missed several blitzes which along with not going to his hot reads or changing the play/WR routes at the LOS is what made the offense so stagnant. You're right though if Watson is doing these things then that means there's too much on his plate and BOB is asking him to do things he's not comfortable with. At this point I'm hoping Watson looks more to the middle of the field and BOB shortens some of the route combos to help Watson while he's learning.
     
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  14. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    I think many are backwards. A more complex system is fine - preferred even. The problem over the past several years is O'Brien trying to simplify the system into what HE is comfortable with and overcompensating for his own failings. We've spent more time diagramming mixed pass protection schemes than a functional offense ... an offensive line of hall-of-famers doesn't give you 5 seconds in the pocket to guess which receiver won their route. In the Pat's system a wide receiver on a 9 or deep post/curl is common. It's common because he's a "it'll happen eventually or test the defense" receiver as the tightends, backs and underneath routes continue to draw coverage and force the defense. Much like Kubiak/Shanahan's system, calling similar plays multiple times waiting on the defense to switch - and the big play opens up. Instead O'Brien has continually dialed back everyone else to focus on those outside routes, either through max protect or spread, when they are NOT the ideal throws. Only made possible through our talent and lack there-of on defense.

    We went from a very detailed west-coast zone offense that made things simple for the quarterback, to an offense that asks the QB and WR to be superhuman. The Patriots run possibly the most QB friendly system I've seen, so many quick options and multiple options in the quarterback's line of vision - again, no successful Belichick coaches. Against the Falcons we ran the basic pairing routes that you could get from a 15 year old Madden player (no, head coach doesn't get any kudos for that level of genius). Thanks to the talent that Rick Smith provided in Watson, Hopkins and Fuller - that simple pairing made the pass game a whole hell of a lot easier than "I'll try not to die in max protect waiting on your 20yd curl".
     
  15. Speedy

    Speedy Yeller Dweller

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    Or how much of it was going against a defense that just isn’t very good? Against 2 much better defenses in Carolina and J-ville, 1 offensive TD in each game, both on short fields, and Watson doesn’t have over 160 yards in either game.

    Gotta take games like last week with a grain of salt and see how it translates over the course of a season and against better competition.
     
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  16. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    They didn't have the talent on the OL last yr to be successful. This yr they have the talent, but with 3 new OL/2 new RB's/A new TE/A new WR they're still a work in progress. Put that together with Watson trying to figure out where the blitz is coming from and delivering an accurate throw and we are where we are. (Inconsistent) I would like to see Watson under center more and think until he learns to step up into the pocket and throw accurately when pressure is all around him he will remain inconsistent. His 1st instinct is to run to his right when facing pressure. The good thing is while scrambling he keeps his eyes down field and you can make plays this way, but you cant do it consistently. IMHO He still also needs to be more consistent with his footwork and this will help improve his over all accuracy.

    I cant wait to see how much Watson and the rest of the offense has come together as a unit by the Pats game.
     
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  17. otisbean

    otisbean Hall of Fame

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    He’s been getting playing time. He’s looked pretty good for a rookie, he uses his hands/arm length really well.
     
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  18. Texas Jake

    Texas Jake All Pro

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    I don't dismiss this point either. That why I am waiting to see what happens in the coming games and not confident this game will be a recurring theme. I am hoping what we saw was improvement and not just the result of ineptness on the other team.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  19. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    Pats actually run a very complex system that requires Brady, the TEs and the WRs to change things up on the fly and even the same call at times meaning an entirely different play than before depending on how the defense is lined up. There have been several articles posted over in the, I think its the Falcons thread, EP system debate where NFL players and even former Pats have said it is very hard to learn. The system the Pats use may look QB friendly but that's because Brady makes it look so easy and its the system he is very comfortable with because it basically gives him full control from the line. That's not saying Brady is smarter than Watson but more that Brady strikes me as the kind of guy that has a plan A then a B, C and D depending on what happens. Watson more the kind that says "Ok guys here is what we are doing, if it all goes south just try and get free and I'll play Benny Hill with the defense in the mean time."
     
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  20. frethack

    frethack All Pro

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    Excellent post. Exactly agree with you. Watson will learn, but it will take time and experience.
     
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