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Film study - Case Keenum vs. S. Miss

76Texan

Hall of Fame
At the end of the day, in normal condition, the farthest I've seen Schaub thrown the ball is 47 yards straight down the middle of the field (from the LOS).
I've seen Keenum went for 50 yards.
(And I have reviewed all of Schaub's throws while I haven't reviewed all of Keenum's throw; ie. he may have one longer than that.)
You take that radius and project it to any throw outside the numbers, using simple trigonometry.


One of Keenum's TD pass to Edward in the Rice game (a skinny post route) was with Edward catching the pass some 41 yards from the LOS and ran another 23 yards for the TD.
This projected to some 48 yards straight down the middle.

And Keenum didn't even step into his throw.
He took a 3-step drop from the shotgun, hopped twice in roughly the same spot such that when he delivered the ball, he was about 10 yards behind the LOS.

This is equivalent to a 7-step drop from under Center.
However, when Schaub took such a 7-step drop, he normally stepped up a few yards (3-4 yards with a left-right-left) before he delivered the throw.


However, when Schaub took such a 7-step drop, he normally stepped up a few yards (3-4 yards with a left-right-left) before he delivered the throw.

Keenum, on the other hand, hop-stepped in pretty much the same position where he dropped back to, and took only one slight step with the left foot forward to deliver the ball.
And he still threw the ball one yard further (from the LOS) than Schaub ever did.

If you count from the spot Keenum's front foot was, he actually threw the ball 4-5 yards longer than Schaub ever did without needing the momentum of the forward motion.
His arm is stronger than Schaub.


(At the moment, there was no rain drop and there wasn't any sign of a breeze from the palm trees in the corner of one end zone. A few minutes later, there was a very slight breeze showing, but nothing to suggest any adverse condition.)

It was then that Keenum connected with Edwards outside the numbers again (at roughly the same distance, without needing to step into his throw either.)

This clearly demonstrates his arm strength.
And we can end all the discussion about his lack of arm strength that would hinder his effectiveness outside the numbers right here because it is simply ridiculous.

No, he doesn't have a gun; but he does have better arm strength than Schaub.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Case Keenum Pro Day:

http://blog.chron.com/cougars/2012/03/quick-notes-from-houstons-pro-day/

... there were as many as 32 scouts there representing at least 21 teams (including the Texans who might have been out there to see Edwards).

...

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.


...

On Monday, he didn’t show any issues throwing. He threw the ball with good velocity, particularly on the out routes, and he showed the ability to get it downfield. I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum had “above average” arm strength.

...

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.

..


The SS and the 3-cone times are better than many receivers and DBs at the combine or their respective pro day.
This (besides the game tapes) shows that Keenum has mobility.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Check out the game vs UTEP in 2010.
This was the game in which Keenum got hurt in the third quarter and was out for the season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y2bd6NEiJI

On the first play, Keenum was in play-action pass out of a ZBS run fake.
He hop-stepped forward to ease away from the pressure and completed the pass for a TD.

On the second play, Keenum was under center again.
This time, he handed the ball off to the RB on an inside ZBS run.

Fastforward to the 1:00 mark in the vid and you will find the "statue of liberty" play. Keenum switched the ball to his left hand; faked a swing pass with his right hand, and handed the ball off with his left to the receiver on a reverse.

On the next play, Keenum took the ball from under center and handed off to the RB for another TD.

Two plays later, you can see Keenum under center again.
He handed off the ball to the RB for yet another TD.
This time, you can clearly see the cut back from a ZBS by the RB.

Those who think that Keenum is just a shotgun spread QB cannot be any more mistaken.

During the regular season, I've already mentioned how Keenum was under center 14 times (in 27 snaps or so) against Oregon in 2007 as a rookie, splitting time with another QB (Blake Joseph).

If anything, Luck out of Stanford, doesn't know anything about the ZBS.
Even though they run a WCO, Stanford employed straight man blocking.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Why Keenum over any of the many other guys who would be available at 26?
Just saying that IF they are really spooked about the QB situation...it could be tempting to lock up another QB right away, especially if several other top guys (at other positions they're targeting) are gone.

It hasn't been done by Kubiak. It's not his style. But sometimes patterns get broken. Do I think it will happen? Around a 5% chance. But I won't be surprised if it does.

We're thin at QB and have no money to spend on a veteran free agent.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I get what you're saying about why they might pick a QB, but I don't think they would pick Keenum unless it was in the second half of the draft.
They might think he's not available. I don't think he'll be available after Round 2.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
They might think he's not available. I don't think he'll be available after Round 2.
I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.
TJ Yates didn't even get invited to the combine last year. Kubiak still took him, though.

Keenum has football smarts, just like Yates does. And Keenum's Cougars, IIRC, got all the way up to like No. 3 in the nation last year. From what I saw, he was a large part of their success. Put him on a stronger team with better cast of players and he will be OK.

I personally don't think he's better than around 4th round, 5th at the latest. But I think some team will jump the gun on him "just because." Happens all the time: i.e. Kevin Kolb.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
TJ Yates didn't even get invited to the combine last year. Kubiak still took him, though.

Keenum has football smarts, just like Yates does. And Keenum's Cougars, IIRC, got all the way up to like No. 3 in the nation last year. From what I saw, he was a large part of their success. Put him on a stronger team with better cast of players and he will be OK.

I personally don't think he's better than around 4th round, 5th at the latest. But I think some team will jump the gun on him "just because." Happens all the time: i.e. Kevin Kolb.
Keenum and Kolb are two totally different animals.

Keenum regularly gets the ball out of his hands at the 1-1/2 to 2 second mark.
Kolb (as Weeden) helds the ball too long (past the 3 second mark) with regularity.

Keenum has more smart than Yates; and he played much better than Yates under pressure. In fact, he and Wilson (Wisconsin) were two QBs that performed the best under pressure last year in the NCAA.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would gladly bet against that happening. I have a hard time seeing Keenum getting drafted before the 5th. He didn't impress at the combine with his throwing, and he doesn't display the arm strength needed at the next level. Very Colt McCoy-ish IMO.
What round was McCoy drafted in?
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
What round was McCoy drafted in?
Late 3rd, which was obviously too high for him. But he came from a big school and had much more national notoriety than Keenum does. I think Keenum will get drafted, I just don't think it will happen until the 5th round.
 

Rey

Guest
Late 3rd, which was obviously too high for him. But he came from a big school and had much more national notoriety than Keenum does. I think Keenum will get drafted, I just don't think it will happen until the 5th round.
I think Keenum could go undrafted.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Keenum and Kolb are two totally different animals.
I wouldn't say totally different. They played in similar offenses. They are both underrated as athletes. Kolb has the bigger arm. Keenum is the better decision maker. But let's be honest: If both were coming out of this draft, Kolb would go higher. Because of his size and arm advantage.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I wouldn't say totally different. They played in similar offenses. They are both underrated as athletes. Kolb has the bigger arm. Keenum is the better decision maker. But let's be honest: If both were coming out of this draft, Kolb would go higher. Because of his size and arm advantage.
Size, yes.
Arm, I don't know.

I went back and watched all the games Kolb played in last year for the Cards and the deepest I saw him throw was 47 yards from the LOS (straight down hill shot) with the QB some 8 yards behind the LOS.

I've seen Keenum throw 50 yards a couple of time and several more in the 47 plus range.

Remember that I had noted Schaub's range is also 47 yards, while T.J. Yates is 50.
 

Rey

Guest
I don't understand the knocks on Keenum's arm strength...

His arm is stronger than Schaubs...He throws a tight spiral and gets plenty of zip on his passes...
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Here's the data on draftee's ball speed:

http://blogs.ourlads.com/2012/03/12/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2012/

Keenum definitely has a stronger than average arm..

The Texans receivers were talking about how Yates threw the ball with more zip than Schaub.. we'll compare keenum's numbers to Yates..

TJ
I have to question the numbers that suggest Flacco has an average arm (55 mph). Flacco has one of the strongest arms in the league. It had Colt McCoy at 56 mph. Looking at both, who has the stronger arm? It's not even close.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I find it interesting that there are plenty of bloggers and posters from other teams wanting to draft Keenum. A quick glance shows the Colts, Falcons, Chiefs, Dolphins, Bengals, Eagles, Cowboys, Redskins, etc. with grades given as a 4th rounder or later.

He was "picked" before the Gruden's QB Camp session was aired so these preferences weren't influenced by Jon G.

The main qualities listed were smart and accuracy.
There were some concerns about his arm strength at the next level (not valid as we know it).

The highest I've seen Keenum projected is in the third round by a "New Jersey born, now living in California" columnist who listed the Niners and Raiders as his favorite football teams:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1017157-2012-nfl-draft-projections-first-5-qbs-who-will-be-selected
He rated Keenum as the #5 QB prospect.

The Texans might decide to draft another QB, but I sure hope they take Keenum.

http://www.khou.com/sports/Keenum-on-NFL-Draft-Im-open-to-go-wherever-148178625.html

by KHOU 11 Sports staff
khou.com
Posted on April 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM

HOUSTON – Former University of Houston quarterback Case Keenum took some time on Thursday morning to talk to KHOU 11 Sports reporter Matt Musil about the upcoming NFL Draft.
In the full interview, which you can see above, Keenum talks about which city he would prefer to play in. His answer was funny and one that most UH fans hope comes true.
"It’s looking pretty attractive now to stay in the city of Houston maybe we can just move from Scott street over to Kirby," said Keenum.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1179936.html

College Football Network projects Keenum as an UDFA with these comments:

1. QB Case Keenum, Houston 6-1, 208
There aren’t any NFL skills to get excited about with no size, a mediocre arm, and not athleticism. However, he’s the great statistical passer in NCAA history thanks to a deadly accurate arm and a smart mind that makes every right decision. There might not be a better quarterback in the draft at hitting his guys on the move, and he almost never, ever makes mistakes even though he’s a fearless bomber. The mechanics are great and he gets the ball out of his hands in a hiccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees he’s not going to iccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees he’s not going to hold up he’ll never be a top starter, but he can work for a long time as a good backup.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
????????????????????????????????????????


Ummm...Yeah I do, but that's not what I meant.

Re-read what you pasted. There is an error in there.
Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say instead of going round and round?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Here's something I caught from "Inthebullseye.com"; this post was from 2009:

http://inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=811

Last weekend I watch the UH vs. Tulane game as I have been fortunate enough to watch all but the UTEP game thi fall. The announcers were not our regular announcers and they absolutely gushed over Case Keenum. They were sure he had the quickest release since Dan Marino, his arm was a cannon, he had high accuracy and he was very cool under fire. Oh, and I believe they thought he had the 'IT' factor of very good professional quarterbacks.
 

Rey

Guest
Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say instead of going round and round?

?????????????????


http://cfn.scout.com/2/1179936.html

College Football Network projects Keenum as an UDFA with these comments:

1. QB Case Keenum, Houston 6-1, 208
There aren’t any NFL skills to get excited about with no size, a mediocre arm, and not athleticism. However, he’s the great statistical passer in NCAA history thanks to a deadly accurate arm and a smart mind that makes every right decision. There might not be a better quarterback in the draft at hitting his guys on the move, and he almost never, ever makes mistakes even though he’s a fearless bomber. The mechanics are great and he gets the ball out of his hands in a hiccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees he’s not going to iccup, but he spent his career working in the spread and has to prove he can work under center. With a smallish body, concussion issues, and rebuilt knees he’s not going to hold up he’ll never be a top starter, but he can work for a long time as a good backup.

I thought I was being pretty clear...

The information you copied and pasted has an error in it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Do I really have to go back and highlight the exact part?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
?????????????????





I thought I was being pretty clear...

The information you copied and pasted has an error in it. What is so hard to understand about that?

Do I really have to go back and highlight the exact part?
You're talking about the part where they didn't know that Keenum has had experience under Center?
 

Rey

Guest
You're talking about the part where they didn't know that Keenum has had experience under Center?
I didn't expect all of this...It's turned into this big crucial thing and I was just trying to point it out to you...Maybe I wasn't being clear in hindsight...

One of the sentences is cut off and it starts again. It's a typographical error, not an error with the actual information.

Hope that clears it up.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I didn't expect all of this...It's turned into this big crucial thing and I was just trying to point it out to you...Maybe I wasn't being clear in hindsight...

One of the sentences is cut off and it starts again. It's a typographical error, not an error with the actual information.

Hope that clears it up.
Thanks, the website somehow was difficult to copy in one shot (or maybe it was just the problem that I've been having with Vista and Google Chrome on this PC lately) that led to the problem.
 
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