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FAQ: The myths of Ahman Green

DomDavis said:
I have no idea. But you're subtly trying to change the subject. You said he's been "done" for two seasons. Answer my question: do those numbers indicate a player who is "done"?
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Yep:

Chuck Foreman: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/ForeCh00.htm
Lawerance McCutcheon:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/McCuLa00.htm
Earl Camble: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/CampEa00.htm
Marcus Allen:http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/AlleMa00.htm

Ahmen Green http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GreeAh00.htm

the common thread they hit a thousand carries...they ain't got it no more. They run out of steam.
 
threetoedpete said:
So you're promising us that he's going to get 1500 yards and 300 touches this season ? You're projecting that he is going to duplicate those numbers ?
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So, you're promising he wont get this numbers nextr year? That he cannot possibly duplicate those numbers?
 
DomDavis said:
So can you give me statistical numbers for a productive running back who isn't done? If almost 1,500 on around 300 touches means you're done, what kind of productivity does a back need to not be done, and thus, in the prime of his career?
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155 attemps. 565 yards. 3.6 ypc. 18yds longest run. 6 TD's. 0 20+ runs.

That's what every running back should be compared to...since he is the best running back ever.

first person with a name gets a gold star!
 
I think this is going to turn out badly for the Texans but I admire the post DomDavis. It was a good argument for the signing and I hope you are right. I have doubts about his ability to continue to play at that high a level. You mentioned some backs who had success and demonstrated durability after 30 years of age but I know I don't need to remind you that the list of backs who started to slide post-30 is far longer.

I sure hope you are right but I can't escape the feeling that we should have re-signed Dayne and bypassed a free agent RB.

(and yes I know Dayne was also a free agent. I believe he could have been had far cheaper than Green or Henry however)
 
I'd suggest we should be cautiously optimistic about this acquisition. Even at 30, I think Green instantly becomes the best back in Texans history. I'd guess he'll be good for at least 1,300 yards from scrimmage and 15-17 TDs. His superstar years are probably behind him but he is still our first dangerous, legitimate, proven threat in the backfield. As has been noted, he is very versatile and appears to be be a good attitude to boot.

Though it disappoints me in that this move pretty well signals we have absolutely no intention of pursuing AP, I think that is also simply being realistic, as I never could make myself believe we'd land AP without a costly trade-up. Hopefully this means we will be focusing on drafting Landry as an instant, significant upgrade to our weak secondary.

Furthermore, unlike Moulds, whose lack of success and subsequent cut I would also tie to David Carr's lack of performance, I think Ahman will force opponents to respect our run and actually allow David Carr to be better as a result.
 
Eclipse P-Burnt as the worst signing in franchise history? Are you crazy? We could cut him tomorrow, and the cap hit we'd take wouldn't be as painful as the lost 2nd and 3rd round draft choices we gave up for a player who didn't give us jack squat on the field.

The contract is a little rich for the player we're getting, but it's free agency and we're the Texans, what did you expect? It's only a four year deal and 6.5 in guarantees isn't that unpalatable. Green still has some tread on the tires and barring injury he can get us some good production for the next few years until we have another back who's ready to step in.
 
I talked to a friend of mine who is a GB fan. He told me that we just got one darn good back.

He mentioned that one thing GB is going to miss is his ability to block and pick up blitzes. Last year, both Lundy and Taylor could not block and many times found themselves getting over powered.

He also mentioned that having Green means more 1st downs on 3rd down. He mentioned that Green has some of the best 2nd effort runs but most importantly is awesome catching out of the backfield and making things happen on his own and teams will have to account for that. That's not bad if we are keeping David Carr who is the best QB to throw to a RB.

I mentioned that he is old. He told me that he still has break away speed and referred to a game against Miami in which he broke off a 70 yard TD run. We've never had a back that had that kind of big play ability. DW when he was DD was never able to finish off any of his long runs with a TD, Dayne can't out run nobody and Wali and Chris are only Wali and Chris.
 
threetoedpete said:
Agreed Silver Oak, Moulds II. Ahmen isn't going to push back the saftys in the tampa II. He's not going to break off expolsive runs any more.
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Nobody picks up a running back to "push back the safeties" in the Tampa II. You want your running back to bring those safeties closer to the LOS, allowing your receivers to get behind those safeties easier.

Kaiser Toro said:
Paying him a 6.5m signing bonus over four years is a perfect contract for this type of player.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12404
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As part of a $23million deal.. (23-6.5=16.5/4=4.125)+(6.5/4=1.65)=$5.75million cap hit at worse, and what?? $3.65 million at best.

I have no problem with Green, but I'd like to see more details in his contract to say whether or not we've got a good deal.
 
DomDavis said:
So can you give me statistical numbers for a productive running back who isn't done? If almost 1,500 on around 300 touches means you're done, what kind of productivity does a back need to not be done, and thus, in the prime of his career?
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No the point I'm tring to make and Herv is making much better...as with o-lineman, they 've only got so many hits and carries in the bank. They hit thirty...it's time to move on. So Smith and Kubes...and you disagrees with me. I do not know what the thought process was on the deal. I do know that this is not anything to get excited about. I do not dislike Ahman Green. Have in fact won money with him in Fantasy Fottball. But, I've seen this story enough over forty years to know that the odds of him making through a sixteen game season, even at 200 attempts are not good. So we want to argue what that worth to us in our situation with the cap is today...don't post he's going to replicate those numbers, behind this line. It's a stop gap move with a named palyer at best. If that makes the season ticket holders happy ok. You post more than that you're setting up Texans fans for another bad heart ache. The odds and history are on myside, not yours.
 
threetoedpete said:
I do not know what the thought process was on the deal.
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I think the thought process was trying to sign a GOOD RB, but at the same time allowing our Younger backs (Gado, Lundy, Taylor) to have a chance to prove themselves. Maybe they like what they saw out of Taylor and Lundy, and felt like they'd give those guys a couple years to develop before they went after a dominant top flight back...

Build the defense through the draft, and get an infusion of talent on one side of the ball, and use Free Agency as a stop gap for the other...It allows us to still be competitive while we build the foundation for the team...the defense....Lool how long a defense can be dominant compared to a RB...Good defenses last years, while RB's can be great one year and poor the next...

It doesn't make any sense to get a great young back right now when we aren't built to win just yet....That'd be like Barry Sanders wasting all those good years on a bad team...Or Larry Johnson in KC...or Edgerrin James on the defenseless Colts...or DD on the Texans...LT is great for the Chargers right now because they have the team around him...If they didn't he'd just be another good back on a poor team....RB's only have so much life in them so it makes sense to get an older Veteran who can teach our young guys so that we can have a solid foundation for years to come.
 
sounds good to me that he can block...i think that was a big reason why they signed him.

also i've read that he really is quite healthy. that he really takes care of himself healthwise.

In all honesty, was there a better option out there for us? any FA RB's that would have been better? Trade up for AP in the draft? take lynch at 8?

I like this because not every decision can be long term, this opens up the draft for us.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think the thought process was trying to sign a GOOD RB, but at the same time allowing our Younger backs (Gado, Lundy, Taylor) to have a chance to prove themselves. Maybe they like what they saw out of Taylor and Lundy, and felt like they'd give those guys a couple years to develop before they went after a dominant top flight back...

Build the defense through the draft, and get an infusion of talent on one side of the ball, and use Free Agency as a stop gap for the other...It allows us to still be competitive while we build the foundation for the team...the defense....Lool how long a defense can be dominant compared to a RB...

It doesn't make any sense to get a great young back right now when we aren't built to win just yet..That'd be like Barry Sanders wasting all those good years on a bad team...RB's only have so much life in them so it makes sense to get an older Veteran who can teach our young guys so that we can have a solid foundation for years to come.
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I agree at the time GB made the deal to move him out of Seattle that was a good deal. If he's bring him in as a player coach fine. That is not what his original post insinuated. It infered that the guy was in fact our #1 back and that his production levels would not fall off.

3. Why not Travis Henry?

Because Henry averaged 3.5 YPC in 2004, 3.8 in 2005, and 2.7 in 2006 until VY showed up, when his YPC instantly shot up. Coincidence? I think not. Henry looked poor for three consecutive seasons, until he was able to benefit from the zone read scheme that made linebackers a step slow because they had to account for the possibility of Young faking the handoff and keeping it himself. Second, want to talk injury prone? That label applies to Henry - a guy with multiple nagging injuries - moreso than it does to Green, a durable player with one significant injury his entire career.
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That inference that he will eclipse the numbers of Travis Henry is a reach. He is thirty. He has banged the rock over twelve hundred times. He has sustainded a major leg injury. He IS over thirty. Nice post and all...but don't pee down my boot and tell me it's raining.


this is ecatly the kind of stuff I'm talking about:

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?p=615236#post615236

You're whiping them up for sure Dom. As i posted, I just hope you're correct.
 
threetoedpete said:
No the point I'm tring to make and Herv is making much better...as with o-lineman, they 've only got so many hits and carries in the bank. They hit thirty...it's time to move on. So Smith and Kubes...and you disagrees with me. I do not know what the thought process was on the deal. I do know that this is not anything to get excited about. I do not dislike Ahman Green. Have in fact won money with him in Fantasy Fottball. But, I've seen this story enough over forty years to know that the odds of him making through a sixteen game season, even at 200 attempts are not good. So we want to argue what that worth to us in our situation with the cap is today...don't post he's going to replicate those numbers, behind this line. It's a stop gap move with a named palyer at best. If that makes the season ticket holders happy ok. You post more than that you're setting up Texans fans for another bad heart ache. The odds and history are on myside, not yours.
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The Green Bay line is as bad in run blocking or worse than ours. As for productivity suddenly stopping at 30, Tiki Barber, Fred Taylor, Warrick Dunn, and several others last season seem to disagree with you.
 
Great first post, DomDavis. This thread is one I'll be e-mailing my buddies who have questions about Green. Good job! :thumbup
 
threetoedpete said:
I agree at the time GB made the deal to move him out of Seattle that was a good deal. If he's bring him in as a player coach fine. That is not what his original post insinuated. It infered that the guy was in fact our #1 back and that his production levels would not fall off.



That inference that he will eclipse the numbers of Travis Henry is a reach. He is thirty. He has banged the rock over twelve hundred times. He has sustainded a major leg injury. He IS over thirty. Nice post and all...but don't pee down my boot and tell me it's raining.


this is ecatly the kind of stuff I'm talking about:

http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?p=615236#post615236

You're whiping them up for sure Dom. As i posted, I just hope you're correct.
Click to expand...

I wasn't really referencing the original post of this thread...

Moreso, the statement of your I highlighted...
 
Smith/Kubes identified a need for a running back that can carry more of a load. 2 ways to get one. Free agency or draft. Draft ain't here yet so we do not know what will be done. The probabilities of who will be drafted by which team has changed and may again. Green seems to be the best available free agent rb. He is just as likely to have a good 2 years (and that is all expected) as not. We still do not know the cap hit for 2007 & that will effect the poll of good or bad pick up. I am glad that a recognized area is being addressed. To pick up a starter in F/A at any position has to be a plus. RB down, LT, LB, WR, CB and safety to go. We have five high draft selections and the same amount of cap space before the Green signing (AJ's saved $6m) to address these 5 spots. It is still early. And then there are the June cuts to pick up depth.
 
DomDavis said:
Browsing this board and a few of the Chronicle blogs, it seems there are a lot of folks who love to whine for the sake of whining without actually understanding the subject of what they're arguing. So, I figured it'd be good to have a single thread to dismiss most of these lies.
.......
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Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. There's a heck of a lot of crotchety old women on these boards - it's nice to hear from someone who actually looks at the situation before exploding into their habitual knee-jerk response.

What would be our dream fit at RB? How about this: Someone who's not another shot in the dark; someone who is proven, durable, mature, a good run blocker, a good receiver, a damn good runner and a veteran who can provide leadership to our relatively young offense. Ticks every box, for me. No, I'm not saying he's the future of the franchise, but he could definitely be a keystone to lean our offense on while we develop our young talent (which we have a lot of at that position).

Of course, that's the other thing that Green brings us. He brings us a role model for Lundy, Taylor and Gado. A guy who knows what he's talking about and will help them bring their own skills to the fore.

I, for one, am delighted with this signing. Sure it cost us, but for the mix of tangible skills and intangible benefits Green brings us I don't think we could have done a whole lot better.
 
Green adds depth to an underachieving core of backs. Davis and Green have done well when they play, but they haven't lived up to their potential. JMO. Also Ron Dayne, former Heisman winner, never got a decent season. I think this is very beneficial incase we can't get Peterson (which i suspect we won't) and allows us to fill other needs. He loves to play runs hard, his production is limited because of the Packers decline since the old glory days. He may do well in a new environment, I guess we'll see eh?
 
"3. Why not Travis Henry?

Because Henry averaged 3.5 YPC in 2004, 3.8 in 2005, and 2.7 in 2006 until VY showed up, when his YPC instantly shot up. Coincidence? I think not. Henry looked poor for three consecutive seasons, until he was able to benefit from the zone read scheme that made linebackers a step slow because they had to account for the possibility of Young faking the handoff and keeping it himself. Second, want to talk injury prone? That label applies to Henry - a guy with multiple nagging injuries - moreso than it does to Green, a durable player with one significant injury his entire career."


why not Travis Henry?

guaranteed 12 million over 5 years, thats why.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511
 
Meloy said:
Smith/Kubes identified a need for a running back that can carry more of a load. 2 ways to get one. Free agency or draft. Draft ain't here yet so we do not know what will be done. The probabilities of who will be drafted by which team has changed and may again. Green seems to be the best available free agent rb.
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Good post. I agree, Green is an instant starter who can play on every down. Hopefully, he'll help get Gado, Lundy, & Taylor up to that stage in their career in the next 2 years.


Scout.com has Ahman rated as the 6th best RB in FA(Travis Henry wasn't a FA when they did their ranking) behind Dominic Rhodes, Chris Brown, Correll Buckhalter, Michael Turner, and B.J. Sams.

While I like the prospect of Michael Turner, in all honesty, Ahman is just as probable to rush for over 1000 yards in '07 as Turner or Dominc does, being that he's done it several times again in his recent past.

& he's just as likely to stay Healthy as Henry, Buckhalter, or Brown, again because of his history.

True he's 30 years old, but that age isn't a magic number where production just starts falling off.
 
thunderkyss said:
Good post. I agree, Green is an instant starter who can play on every down. Hopefully, he'll help get Gado, Lundy, & Taylor up to that stage in their career in the next 2 years.


Scout.com has Ahman rated as the 6th best RB in FA(Travis Henry wasn't a FA when they did their ranking) behind Dominic Rhodes, Chris Brown, Correll Buckhalter, Michael Turner, and B.J. Sams.

While I like the prospect of Michael Turner, in all honesty, Ahman is just as probable to rush for over 1000 yards in '07 as Turner or Dominc does, being that he's done it several times again in his recent past.

& he's just as likely to stay Healthy as Henry, Buckhalter, or Brown, again because of his history.

True he's 30 years old, but that age isn't a magic number where production just starts falling off.
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Yep...the one thing that Green buys the Texans is time. He gives you a more trustworthy option than Ron Dayne who also gives the coaching staff to figure out if one the 3 young guys is capable or find a good prospect in the draft. Is he the player he was 4 years ago, probably not, but is this now a position where there is a solid professional player. We don't have enough of those.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Yep...the one thing that Green buys the Texans is time. He gives you a more trustworthy option than Ron Dayne who also gives the coaching staff to figure out if one the 3 young guys is capable or find a good prospect in the draft. Is he the player he was 4 years ago, probably not, but is this now a position where there is a solid professional player. We don't have enough of those.
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xtruroyaltyx said:
I think the thought process was trying to sign a GOOD RB, but at the same time allowing our Younger backs (Gado, Lundy, Taylor) to have a chance to prove themselves. Maybe they like what they saw out of Taylor and Lundy, and felt like they'd give those guys a couple years to develop before they went after a dominant top flight back...

Build the defense through the draft, and get an infusion of talent on one side of the ball, and use Free Agency as a stop gap for the other...It allows us to still be competitive while we build the foundation for the team...the defense....Lool how long a defense can be dominant compared to a RB...Good defenses last years, while RB's can be great one year and poor the next...

It doesn't make any sense to get a great young back right now when we aren't built to win just yet....That'd be like Barry Sanders wasting all those good years on a bad team...Or Larry Johnson in KC...or Edgerrin James on the defenseless Colts...or DD on the Texans...LT is great for the Chargers right now because they have the team around him...If they didn't he'd just be another good back on a poor team....RB's only have so much life in them so it makes sense to get an older Veteran who can teach our young guys so that we can have a solid foundation for years to come.
Click to expand...


Great minds think alike
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
155 attemps. 565 yards. 3.6 ypc. 18yds longest run. 6 TD's. 0 20+ runs.

That's what every running back should be compared to...since he is the best running back ever.

first person with a name gets a gold star!
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Don't forget that Reggie was a slot back/slot wr.

88 catches 742 yards 8.4 yc 74 long 5:20+ 2:40+ 32 First Downs
( this tops Green's best seasons or is just right above them )

that's a bit more than Eric Moulds our #2 WR

57 catches 557 yards 9.8 yc 29 long 6:20+ 0:40+ 33 First Downs
 
TwinSisters said:
Don't forget that Reggie was a slot back/slot wr.
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Oh I didn't forget at all. If we wanted that we woulda got it. But we don't want that. We want the RB that can run up the middle for decent yardage every down..and pound it through the game..controlling the TOP.

please see Ron Dayne and Ahman Green.

I think Bush is a tremendous athlete but the thing I hate is when he gets a 12 yard gain one play....and then the very next gets tackled for a 9 yard loss.
 
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