Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Texans or the fans that don't share your opinion about the number one pick in the draft? The only time I've seen you post is when it's about how good you think Reggie Bush is and how bad Mario Williams is. I would think being a true Texans fan you would have plenty of other things to talk about.texansfaninla said:
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ESPN: Houston Texasn are the Sports version of Enron
- Thread starter hollywood_texan
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maddict5 said:id edit that post quickly- he was quoting me in the first part(not that im pro-reggie)...and his michael smith comment means he's definitely pro-mario
Dude is definitely not pro-Mario. He has been on a pro-Bush, anti-Mario rant all over the MB. Time will tell if he is right, but like the media coverage, the rant is getting old.
My comment was not made due to the particular quote I chose but the overall outlook of texanfaninla in general, and his Michael Smith comment is sarcasm.Maddict5 said:
Bill Simmons is known as one of the best writers on the internet. He never claims to have inside info and he admits that he's an idiot when he makes a prediction that doesn't come true.
But at THIS POINT, the move to pass on Reggie Bush looks absolutely RIDICULOUS. There is NO WAY AROUND IT.
For the choice of Mario Williams to be considered anything other than the worst draft choice in the last ten years...He's going to have to be special. Not just good, not just a solid DE. Not Demarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman.
His impact will need to be close to that of Jevon Kearse in his rookie year. He needs 13+ sacks and needs to force offenses to change their gameplan.
Of course, a 700 yard season from Reggie Bush would help, but I think any realistic person knows Reggie is going to be a superstar, unless he gets hurt.
But at THIS POINT, the move to pass on Reggie Bush looks absolutely RIDICULOUS. There is NO WAY AROUND IT.
For the choice of Mario Williams to be considered anything other than the worst draft choice in the last ten years...He's going to have to be special. Not just good, not just a solid DE. Not Demarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman.
His impact will need to be close to that of Jevon Kearse in his rookie year. He needs 13+ sacks and needs to force offenses to change their gameplan.
Of course, a 700 yard season from Reggie Bush would help, but I think any realistic person knows Reggie is going to be a superstar, unless he gets hurt.
run-david-run said:
Do you really believe this? I'm asking you to think, not as a Texans fan, but as a logical person. If Bush was a Texan, would you say that he will be a bit player? Would you claim (a total fabrication) that he has an allergy to running between the tackles.
It's ok to justify the selection of Mario. But when you slam Bush to do so, it just shows blind homerism and a lack of football intellect.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I stopped reading this thread after the word "Gale"
run-david-run
All Pro
jesus! the man in all the NFL action he has seen, i dont care if its preaseason, its not like he is going to be trying to suck, has averaged 3.1 yards a carry with no TD's. He has one run of 40 yards on the Titans, take that away and he is averaging about 2 yards a carry throughout 4 games. When the game was on the line, he was on the sideline. He wont run up the middle. I dont care how fast you are, when your going up against Julius Peppers and John Abraham, you arnt going to get to the outside consitantly. He was great in college. He has to show me his style wil translate to the NFL before I crown him the next (insert name of HoF player ESPN has compared Reggie to).Shader said:
By the way, there is no draft pick that is a sure thing, esspecially one with so many question marks in his game and as high a profile as Reggie.
And by the way, I've been against picking Reggie long before Kris Brown shanked that 30 yarder against the 9ers...
LBC_Justin
Rookie
How much impact did Gale Sayers even make?
1965 9-5 record
1966 5-7 record
1967 7-6 record
1968 7-7 record
1969 1-13 record
1970 6-8 record
1971 6-8 record
FIVE years. He had only had FIVE productive years.
4 losing season, 2 winning season, 1 even season. Big freaking deal.
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
------------[------Rushing------][----Receiving------]
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1965 chi | 14 | 166 867 5.2 14 | 29 507 17.5 6 |
| 1966 chi | 14 | 229 1231 5.4 8 | 34 447 13.1 2 |
| 1967 chi | 13 | 186 880 4.7 7 | 16 126 7.9 1 |
| 1968 chi | 9 | 138 856 6.2 2 | 15 117 7.8 0 |
| 1969 chi | 14 | 236 1032 4.4 8 | 17 116 6.8 0 |
| 1970 chi | 2 | 23 52 2.3 0 | 1 -6 -6.0 0 |
| 1971 chi | 2 | 13 38 2.9 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 68 | 991 4956 5.0 39 | 112 1307 11.7 9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
39 touchdowns in his whole career. Umm....Didn't Shawn Alexander get 27 last year and no one was even willing to give up a 3rd round pick to get him.
Well how much of a difference can a great Defensive End really make?
If you ever question how important a great Defensive Ends is then do this little bit of research. Look up the all time sack leaders. Then look at the record of the teams they played on.
One thing I notice in doing this research is that the teams with superstar Defensive Ends did a ton of winning and the had long stretches of winning. Not a lot of ups and downs. When they left a team, often the team when down hill, and when they arrived often a team would begin to thrive. Plus the great ones play for a long time (15-18 seasons) and are productive even in their later years.
A Defensive End isn't sexy but they help a team win. Running Backs are sexy and ESPN is fully aware that sex sells.
1965 9-5 record
1966 5-7 record
1967 7-6 record
1968 7-7 record
1969 1-13 record
1970 6-8 record
1971 6-8 record
FIVE years. He had only had FIVE productive years.
4 losing season, 2 winning season, 1 even season. Big freaking deal.
+--------------------------+-------------------------+
------------[------Rushing------][----Receiving------]
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1965 chi | 14 | 166 867 5.2 14 | 29 507 17.5 6 |
| 1966 chi | 14 | 229 1231 5.4 8 | 34 447 13.1 2 |
| 1967 chi | 13 | 186 880 4.7 7 | 16 126 7.9 1 |
| 1968 chi | 9 | 138 856 6.2 2 | 15 117 7.8 0 |
| 1969 chi | 14 | 236 1032 4.4 8 | 17 116 6.8 0 |
| 1970 chi | 2 | 23 52 2.3 0 | 1 -6 -6.0 0 |
| 1971 chi | 2 | 13 38 2.9 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 68 | 991 4956 5.0 39 | 112 1307 11.7 9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
39 touchdowns in his whole career. Umm....Didn't Shawn Alexander get 27 last year and no one was even willing to give up a 3rd round pick to get him.
Well how much of a difference can a great Defensive End really make?
If you ever question how important a great Defensive Ends is then do this little bit of research. Look up the all time sack leaders. Then look at the record of the teams they played on.
One thing I notice in doing this research is that the teams with superstar Defensive Ends did a ton of winning and the had long stretches of winning. Not a lot of ups and downs. When they left a team, often the team when down hill, and when they arrived often a team would begin to thrive. Plus the great ones play for a long time (15-18 seasons) and are productive even in their later years.
A Defensive End isn't sexy but they help a team win. Running Backs are sexy and ESPN is fully aware that sex sells.
I half agree with the guy, but he went waaay overboard.
If you had taken Bush...he would be a superstar immediately...and would have taken a load off of Carr. Just changing to the ZB scheme, your offensive line improved. Where NO's stinks to high heavens. So now, Bush is rotting away in NO, the same that Deuce did. Great player on a crap team...amounts to an absolutely craptacular career.
It isnt the end of the world that you didnt take him. You really should have, because he would have won you 2 games alone this year. But...you didnt, and now that time has passed. The media should let it go already.
I understand everyone defending the FO for taking a defensive linemen. But superstar running backs that can cure cancer come along every 20 years or so, where DE's come out every few years.
If you had taken Bush...he would be a superstar immediately...and would have taken a load off of Carr. Just changing to the ZB scheme, your offensive line improved. Where NO's stinks to high heavens. So now, Bush is rotting away in NO, the same that Deuce did. Great player on a crap team...amounts to an absolutely craptacular career.
It isnt the end of the world that you didnt take him. You really should have, because he would have won you 2 games alone this year. But...you didnt, and now that time has passed. The media should let it go already.
I understand everyone defending the FO for taking a defensive linemen. But superstar running backs that can cure cancer come along every 20 years or so, where DE's come out every few years.
GP
Go Texans!
texansfaninla said:
I take your opinion with a grain and-a-half of salt.
You live in Louisiana, and although you say you're a Texans fan...you do way too much publicity work for Reggie Bush to be taken seriously here IMO. OK, OK, I know: A dissenting opinion should be welcome, even among Texans fans...and "No," I'm not saying you have to be "in step" with what the majority of us think. So save the martyr attitude if rpelying to what I am saying.
But here's the deal: Our running back situation is NOt dire as you and others try to say. Our system works just fine. Would you draft Terrell Davis in the 6th or 7th round if you were running an NFL team? You probably wouldn't. You and Bill Simmons would look at your NFL Fantasy Cheat sheet provided to you and you would make the "safe" and "easy" pick when it was your turn.
For every Gale Sayers, there is a Kijana Carter and Laurence Phillips waiting to happen. It's NOT science.
Secondly, Bill Simmons' piece is not the truth, it's built on speculation. Looking back on the Jordan-Bowie situation, how it all played out over the courses of their careers, "Yes" you can say it was stupid to pass Jordan up. But to say that a team should be able to see it on draft day is a little presumptuous, to say the least.
At some point, it just is pure fan arrogance to say "Anybody could have seen that Jordan was going to be great" AFTER it happens. In fact, it ought to be a sports crime for people to prop themselves up and make fun of organizations for passing on the "sure thing." You place yourself in such a ridiculous state of being that it's maddening to most others how you can be so arrogant when you do not know if Next Superstar is actually going to be a Superstar at all. Want to predict? That's fine. But to rub people's noses in it is beyond me. It's pure arrogance.
The thing with humor is this: It has to contain an element of truth or it isn't funny. I don't see any truth (yet) to the CLAIM or to the SPECULATION that Reggie Bush is going to be the next big thing. He was getting a second education this preseason with defenders grabbing him and ripping him down when he would try his little "bloop" that was so effective against Pac-10 teams, but he was largely getting schooled out there this preseason. There is no TRUTH to Simmons' claims, nor yours, that he's the Jordan of football. No truth at all. It's all speculation as of right now, and it will be until he has proven it on the field over the course of his career.
This is why I am upset. Pieces like his are barely worth the effort of reading. It's a puff piece. it's a guy getting paid a lot of money to sit around and just tell us what he thinks. I'd rather watch the season for myself and make my own decisions as to who's doing well and who isn't.
But, the easy thing to do is to trust someone who is building his story based on speculation. If you want to get your sports news from Huggy Bear, then that's fine with me. Good luck to ya.
texansfaninla
Waterboy
Publicity work? My point is that we should have taken Bush over Mario. Period. I think Bush would have been a perfect fit in this system. A coach who knows how to get his offensive line to open up holes, plus a guy with the burst and speed of Bush to get down into the open field, would have (a) given the Texans a home run hitter, (b) taken pressure off of Carr, and (c) opened up the whole offense.
Now, I agree with you to a certain extent - Nothing is 100 percent guaranteed in the NFL draft. But based on not just performance, but sheer domination in college (guy averaged almost 10 yards a touch, which nobody has approached - not Barry Sanders, not Marcus Allen, nobody), he was the closest to a sure thing that was available. Passing on that reeks of stupidity.
You have the No. 1 overall pick, you make the "safe" and "easy" selection when it's available. This was no Alex Smith draft. There was a clear top dog, and the Texans were the only team that would have passed to take a defensive project who looked good at a combine. Sure, other teams might say they had Mario atop their boards, but when it comes down to it, how many would have actually pulled the trigger? Only one. Maybe that's why they are 18-46 thus far - worst start in NFL expansion history, if I'm not mistaken. (Tampa had the same record to start, but at least made it to a conference title game.)
Go back and look at the defensive linemen taken No. 1 overall - you'll find a lot more Courtney Brown and Aundray Bruce than Bruce Smith (who was great but, like Barry Sanders, never won a Super Bowl).
As for the running backs you mention:
KiJana Carter - blew out his knees. Bad luck.
Lawrence Phillips - you knew that wasn't going to end well, with his extremely problematic criminal attitude problems.
Mario is a project who will also be scrutinized heavily for the rest of his career in comparison to Bush, because it was such a shock that he was taken over Bush. Let's hope the kid from a town of less than a thousand people can handle that pressure.
And - I know everyone says Bush hasn't done anything with New Orleans. Maybe he's been holding back, just like Mario supposedly has been. Maybe he's been finding his spot. Maybe he plays behind a putrid offensive line with no discernable blocking scheme.
Switch the players with the teams. Mario is probably doing with the Saints exactly what he's doing now. Bush, on the other hand, is probably electrifying everyone with highlight runs through the same holes Wali Lundy has benefited from, and would have gained more yards than Lundy has. He wouldn't have to run around end, because he would have holes to run through.
Bush has a long history of success, going back to Pop Warner. Mario? One really good year (at least half a year - weren't all his sacks in like five games?), no first team All American (or all conference) honors, and a great combine performance.
So with that, I'll stop my "rant". (I know, I know - thank God, right?) I think what I think, you guys think what you think, and that's that. At least we have a forum to express our disagreements in a civil manner.
Now, I agree with you to a certain extent - Nothing is 100 percent guaranteed in the NFL draft. But based on not just performance, but sheer domination in college (guy averaged almost 10 yards a touch, which nobody has approached - not Barry Sanders, not Marcus Allen, nobody), he was the closest to a sure thing that was available. Passing on that reeks of stupidity.
You have the No. 1 overall pick, you make the "safe" and "easy" selection when it's available. This was no Alex Smith draft. There was a clear top dog, and the Texans were the only team that would have passed to take a defensive project who looked good at a combine. Sure, other teams might say they had Mario atop their boards, but when it comes down to it, how many would have actually pulled the trigger? Only one. Maybe that's why they are 18-46 thus far - worst start in NFL expansion history, if I'm not mistaken. (Tampa had the same record to start, but at least made it to a conference title game.)
Go back and look at the defensive linemen taken No. 1 overall - you'll find a lot more Courtney Brown and Aundray Bruce than Bruce Smith (who was great but, like Barry Sanders, never won a Super Bowl).
As for the running backs you mention:
KiJana Carter - blew out his knees. Bad luck.
Lawrence Phillips - you knew that wasn't going to end well, with his extremely problematic criminal attitude problems.
Mario is a project who will also be scrutinized heavily for the rest of his career in comparison to Bush, because it was such a shock that he was taken over Bush. Let's hope the kid from a town of less than a thousand people can handle that pressure.
And - I know everyone says Bush hasn't done anything with New Orleans. Maybe he's been holding back, just like Mario supposedly has been. Maybe he's been finding his spot. Maybe he plays behind a putrid offensive line with no discernable blocking scheme.
Switch the players with the teams. Mario is probably doing with the Saints exactly what he's doing now. Bush, on the other hand, is probably electrifying everyone with highlight runs through the same holes Wali Lundy has benefited from, and would have gained more yards than Lundy has. He wouldn't have to run around end, because he would have holes to run through.
Bush has a long history of success, going back to Pop Warner. Mario? One really good year (at least half a year - weren't all his sacks in like five games?), no first team All American (or all conference) honors, and a great combine performance.
So with that, I'll stop my "rant". (I know, I know - thank God, right?) I think what I think, you guys think what you think, and that's that. At least we have a forum to express our disagreements in a civil manner.
I think it's great that this whole thread revolves around an article written by a man that never played in the NFL. Unless you were born this year, everyone should have known we weren't going to take Bush because of Kubiak's back ground, and HIS system. I doubt that I was the only one that knew this, I personally wanted Ferguson, but Kubiak wanted Williams, and his decisions have led us to a 3-1 preseason record, that is a start. Look a VY, now the Titans have picked up Kerry Collins, so his hype is already fading.
Have faith Texans fans, Kubiak will bring us the season we have been waiting for.
Have faith Texans fans, Kubiak will bring us the season we have been waiting for.
but have since converted. I love Mario. He is going to be a beast, and Lundy will be a stud too. I can't express how excited I am about this season. Now if Carr can step up.......Chicagotexan1
Veteran
Vinny said:
If that's a nice way of saying k-wrap and b.s. then i agree.
texansfaninla said:
Coach Kubiak - the brains behind this system you speak of - obviously disagrees with you.
Don't you think "perfect" is a tad bit overboard? I have no doubt Kubiak would have picked "perfect", if it was available. But he clearly did not think Reggie Bush was "perfect" for his system, or he'd be a Texan right now.
I'm not down on RB (matter-of-fact, I think he'll be a great NFL talent). But he is not God, cannot cure cancer, and will not carry an entire football team to the promised land by his lonesome self.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Double Barrel said:I'm not down on RB (matter-of-fact, I think he'll be a great NFL talent). But he is not God, cannot cure cancer, and will not carry an entire football team to the promised land by his lonesome self.
Nope--that guy is in TN--I hear he makes kittens from his tears as well.
GP
Go Texans!
Texansfaninla:
Reggie running through the same holes as Lundy?
Nope.
Kubiak wants a one-cut and GO! running back. A guy who doesn't dance and try to make things happen on his own. A guy who reads the hole(s) and choose one to explode through.
That's NOT Reggie Bush.
Reggie dances. He spins. He bloops to the outside. He cuts it back, and then back again, and then back again if he can. It's all nice to watch, but in the NFL you just get Barry Sanderized...the focal point of the defense's efforts, and a one-dimentional running game.
And that, in essence, is why Kubiak preferred to go the Denver route and grab an inexpensive running back. Draft quality on the d-line because it's where we have absoutely stunk it up all our life.
I don't think it gets anymoire clearer than how I just explained it.
Reggie running through the same holes as Lundy?
Nope.
Kubiak wants a one-cut and GO! running back. A guy who doesn't dance and try to make things happen on his own. A guy who reads the hole(s) and choose one to explode through.
That's NOT Reggie Bush.
Reggie dances. He spins. He bloops to the outside. He cuts it back, and then back again, and then back again if he can. It's all nice to watch, but in the NFL you just get Barry Sanderized...the focal point of the defense's efforts, and a one-dimentional running game.
And that, in essence, is why Kubiak preferred to go the Denver route and grab an inexpensive running back. Draft quality on the d-line because it's where we have absoutely stunk it up all our life.
I don't think it gets anymoire clearer than how I just explained it.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
ronaldod1 said:
The Broncos are starting an undrafted free agent. So... yeah... Lundy could probably be starting with the Broncos.
Seems about right.
I'm actually feeling good about our RB situation.
texansfaninla
Waterboy
GP Shafer...Did you watch Reggie Bush in college? Many times he hit the open hole, then got in open field to "dance around". Other plays, he went around end on sweeps.
Besides that, and more importantly, Kubiak would have coached Bush kind of like he has Morency - who a lot of people say is better than Lundy. Kubiak would have coached Bush to make his cut, hit the hole, get downfield. When he gets into open space, heck, if he can make guys miss and get more yardage, awesome.
I tell you what - If Lundy and/or Morency has a terrible game, and Mario has no sacks or plays poorly, people will reach a fever pitch. Then many of you will say, "Don't worry, morons. It's just one game. You must wait for the system to get in place and for Mario to develop." Then, if Lundy/Morency stinks up the joint and Mario doesn't develop into anything but a Courtney Brown........
(Sorry - I intended for my previous post to be the last one on this subject.)
Besides that, and more importantly, Kubiak would have coached Bush kind of like he has Morency - who a lot of people say is better than Lundy. Kubiak would have coached Bush to make his cut, hit the hole, get downfield. When he gets into open space, heck, if he can make guys miss and get more yardage, awesome.
I tell you what - If Lundy and/or Morency has a terrible game, and Mario has no sacks or plays poorly, people will reach a fever pitch. Then many of you will say, "Don't worry, morons. It's just one game. You must wait for the system to get in place and for Mario to develop." Then, if Lundy/Morency stinks up the joint and Mario doesn't develop into anything but a Courtney Brown........
(Sorry - I intended for my previous post to be the last one on this subject.)
run-david-run
All Pro
Vernon Morency was told, straightfoward by Kubiak, if you dance around, you wont play. He was told to go straight to the hole, get as many yards as possible and stop trying to "create" somehing by himself. The end result? He averaged about 9 yards a carry with two TD's in his first game under Kubiak. Do you honestly think Reggie would do the same? You really think that after years of playing with one of the most dominant O-lines in college and still bouncing everything to the outside he would suddenly start running North/South?texansfaninla said:
Also, DD was significantly bigger then Bush, he was hurt after two years in the NFL and will probably never play again. Running back is the position with the lowest career time in the NFL, about 5 years. Esppecially with the way Reggie runs (lots of cutbacks, going back into the middle), he opens himself up to big hits that could very likley end his career.
If you really want to go with the "safe" pick at the top of the draft, you take a player who is immediately going to make an impact on EVERY PLAY, not 15-20 a game.
run-david-run
All Pro
Umm....unless Im mistaken, its quite common knowledge Reggie was on the sideline practicaly the entire 4th quarter, esspecially that key 4th and 2 play?Maddict5 said:
Chance_C
All Pro
Which contradicts what you said previously about RB being a perfect fit for out system. In fact Lundy is more of a perfect fit for our system because he was part of a ZBS in college. I'm not parroting Lundy over Bush by no means, but RB was not a perfect fit for our system. Do I think he could be "coached up" to our system? Probably, and he would probably be very effective. I just am going to keep my fingers crossed for Mario and the Texans, and whatever RB does in the Big Easy really doesn't matter to me.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Amazing topic. I am bumping this because of Maddict's new thread.
Line_Producer
Party Rocker
Somebody wanted to send Bill Simmons this column at the end of the year with some dog S#^$. Does somebody want to take the torch on that one? Haha.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
I'm not going to give Bill Simmons too much grief. For one, the guy is a funny as hell columnist and almost all of his stuff is not to be taken seriously. Secondly, it's not as if he's the only one who fell into the Reggie Bush hype. Hell, half of us Texans fans did as well (me included).
D-ReK
RAWWWRR!
We didn't have Green until the 2007 season.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
OMG.....(from the same piece)
Then this happens 1 year later....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osocGiofdvc
It's official Bill Simmons is the damn devil and is responsible for the deaths of many innocent people. He's probably the reason why Bush now sucks in the NFL......Bill Simmons is bad ju ju. Reggie needs to go up the block and get the hex removed by a voodoo priest.
(P.S.... Minneapolis train passengers will never know how lucky they are)
Then this happens 1 year later....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osocGiofdvc
It's official Bill Simmons is the damn devil and is responsible for the deaths of many innocent people. He's probably the reason why Bush now sucks in the NFL......Bill Simmons is bad ju ju. Reggie needs to go up the block and get the hex removed by a voodoo priest.
(P.S.... Minneapolis train passengers will never know how lucky they are)