Don't know if this has been posted yet.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2640592
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2640592
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ESPN: Carr's The Right Choice
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
Vinny
shiny happy fan
With is improvement this year he is slowly starting to look like a good pick in the 2002 draft. Here is a really nice article breaking down how poor that draft class was...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/don_banks/10/26/bad.draft/index.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/don_banks/10/26/bad.draft/index.html
[[Gary Kubiak]];480979 said:
You are very right about the ball being released quickly. I describe it as the ball is getting out on time.
One of the things I did criticize him for was that he'd put pressure on the OL, making them hold their blocks for 4 or 5 seconds.
It is true that many of his sacks, especially last season, were under 2, and sometimes under 1 second. While that would normally look like an OL problem, they generally followed a sack that came about more conventionally.
I'm not trying to make excuses for our OL, they performed very badly last season.
But David getting the ball out on time, I think is a big reason teams aren't showing us the pressure, and flat out disrespect they showed us last year.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I think his problem was more along the lines of not giving your blockers a fighting chance (I've termed this a lack of instinct in the past). Since you can't look behind you it is hard to block for someone who you have no clue where he is. Carr used to run right into blocks or take very poor angles out and around the pocket. For instance if you are blocking a man to the right and Carr flushes right...you got no chance. It is very hard to keep your body between the defender and your QB if you don't know where he is going to be. Carr used to put his linemen in bad positions over and over. His pocket awareness and him reading the body language of his blockers has improved quite a bit under Kubiak.
rafterticket
Waterboy
Thanks for sharing this. I think he missed the word "Some" when he started that second sentence of his second paragraph.
Everything Carr has done this year is a result of quality coaching. Kudos to David Carr for the way he has handled this Young talk.
The future is very bright.
rafterticket
Waterboy
[[Gary Kubiak]];481007 said:
Are you taking a shot at Andre now? No problem with the other two, but.......dang! the man has reestablished himself as one of the top receivers in the league. He got some legitimate complement receivers!
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
"Carr's The Right Choice"
I coulda told you that!
I coulda told you that!
[[Gary Kubiak]];481007 said:
That's a different argument altogether, and unless you want us to bring up all the things Carr did wrong, I think it would be best to just drop this argument all together.
Carr is doing better this year, taking advantage of the same things he could have taken advantage of last year, and the year before, and the year before that.
Major props to Kubiak, and David.
rafterticket
Waterboy
[[Gary Kubiak]];481019 said:
Yeah, I'll meet you there. He did. I was not using my past tense goggles.
Last year, we could probably go over every player on the field in every game and see things that should have happened where they didn't step up. (Marcus Coleman, anyone?) Every one of them own 2-14.
How many of those guys are no longer in football? Coaches on down?
Texanfan4ever
Rookie
Makes me chuckle a little when I see articles like this, and from what I have read from people around here.
The Band Wagon is about to take off, so you better get on now before it is too late.
No kidding, with ESPN at the head of it all. LOL And they act surprised.....
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
thanks for the thread Doug.
Just for the record being a Carr backer has been an ordeal on these boards. You guys still wan't to throw him out, fine. I think this year has proven give Carr some stable tallent around him and he can be productive enough to take us where we all want to go. I'm sorry it isn't Vincent. I really am. Vincent beat the vaulted best college team of all time. Dosen't that make Vincent the best college player of his generation ? I am a horn fan. I will enjoy watching Vincent mature into a great NFL QB. But I think long term the francise did the best thing. A man wiser than I once wrote you can never go home again. I believe that's true in spades.
Just for the record being a Carr backer has been an ordeal on these boards. You guys still wan't to throw him out, fine. I think this year has proven give Carr some stable tallent around him and he can be productive enough to take us where we all want to go. I'm sorry it isn't Vincent. I really am. Vincent beat the vaulted best college team of all time. Dosen't that make Vincent the best college player of his generation ? I am a horn fan. I will enjoy watching Vincent mature into a great NFL QB. But I think long term the francise did the best thing. A man wiser than I once wrote you can never go home again. I believe that's true in spades.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Carr has had one bad game this year, Dallas. The other games he has looked good to very good at times, but I still want to badly see greatness. I don't see greatness in Carr ala a Staubach, Manning, Brady, Elway, Montana, etc. Maybe with continued improvement and more weapons and a better line, maybe we do have our equivilent to a Troy Aikman though. Troy took some time to come into his own as well. It wasn't until he had a great RB in Emmitt, and a terrific combo of receivers and TE's, led by Michael Irvin that he really began to shine. If he becomes something close to Aikman, we can win and win big with Carr, evidenced by Dallas' success at the time. Although he is 4th best in QB rating, I would probably put him somewhere around 10-12th best in the league right now. And folks, that represents a drastic improvement, as last year, I would have said 30th-32nd. Here's hoping he continues to improve, and doesn't have one of those ghoulish second halves like he did in 2004. 
Kubiak has done wonders for Carr's improvement. I can only wonder where DC would be right now if he'd been under Kubiak's wing from the beginning.
The thing that has impressed me most this season is the idea of never quitting, no matter what the score is at the moment. Going into the 4th qtr. at Indy, down 30-3, Kubiak told Carr to take charge and show the team that he's never going to give up. A lot of folks see 'garbage time' with DC's three TDs that qtr., but I see the beginning of something great between our HC and QB.
The thing that has impressed me most this season is the idea of never quitting, no matter what the score is at the moment. Going into the 4th qtr. at Indy, down 30-3, Kubiak told Carr to take charge and show the team that he's never going to give up. A lot of folks see 'garbage time' with DC's three TDs that qtr., but I see the beginning of something great between our HC and QB.
Carr has had one bad game this year, Dallas. The other games he has looked good to very good at times, but I still want to badly see greatness. I don't see greatness in Carr ala a Staubach, Manning, Brady, Elway, Montana, etc. Maybe with continued improvement and more weapons and a better line, maybe we do have our equivilent to a Troy Aikman though. Troy took some time to come into his own as well. It wasn't until he had a great RB in Emmitt, and a terrific combo of receivers and TE's, led by Michael Irvin that he really began to shine. If he becomes something close to Aikman, we can win and win big with Carr, evidenced by Dallas' success at the time. Although he is 4th best in QB rating, I would probably put him somewhere around 10-12th best in the league right now. And folks, that represents a drastic improvement, as last year, I would have said 30th-32nd. Here's hoping he continues to improve, and doesn't have one of those ghoulish second halves like he did in 2004.
I am not convinced you will ever see "greatness" out of Carr, but I will take good to very goodness and worry about the rest of the team. I have been accused at points of being a hater and lover of Carr because I have believed that he is a starting calibur QB, but not a difference maker. You don't have to have a difference maker to win in the NFL, but the other parts of your team need to be at least above average. the texans are far from that. My next step for Carr is to prove that he can play in this manner for an entire season as a couple of years back he started out in a similiar way (not as good), but ended up regressing in the 2nd half.
Goldeagle
Veteran
Carr shows class all the way through. Never bad mouthed his guys like TO (even though he had sacks and dropped passes), and has once again handled himself as a true pro in the likes of say Biggio has showed himself.
No problem. It was a good read and even though our guys as a team haven't earned much respect, nor will they till we start winning, individual recognition is starting to become a common thing.
ccdude730
Veteran
i think the later part of the season is going to be the most interesting. alot of people have been saying we might make a surge or just start to come together. what im loving about kubiak is he publicly refuses to settle for what happened during the game. he is constantly critiquing carr (and lundy as well saying he left about 50 to 60 yards out on the field)
SBTexans08
Rookie
Rep't. Very true and major props to Kubes on that.
SBTexans08
Rookie
eriadoc
Texan-American
Carr progressed steadily and positively until somewhere around the end of the 2004 season. some have said the middle of the 2004 season, but he had some good games later that year as well. Go to nfl.com and look at the game logs from that year and you'll see what I mean. If you accept the end of 2004 and all of 2005 as an aberration, Carr is coming along just fine, especially when you consider the supporting cast he has had at non-skill positions. With Kubiak's experience coaching QBs, I really believe Carr will be a Pro Bowl QB. It's nice to see someone at Eastern Sports Propaganda Network acknowledge it, though.
I seriously don't want to dog on Carr, but some of you guys are making it extremely difficult.
Supporting cast??
Brady's supporting cast was crap when it was Bledsoe's supporting cast. & McNabb has never had a supporting cast other than his running back (Westbrook).
Let's not make excuses for Carr, and just move forward shall we??
he's doing great now, will do great in the future.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Brady and McNabb have had offensive lines that were/are light years ahead of what Carr has had to deal with. Throw in coaching staff considerations and there's nothing you can even begin to argue. Some of the line's atrociousness may well have been due to coaching, but that only reinforces my point. Regardless, I stand by my opinion that Carr (and the team, at this point) is progressing according to plan if you consider the 2005 season an aberration, as I do. Consider the remaining schedule --
@TEN - should be a W, IMO
@NYG - should be a L
@JAX - call it an L, for argument's sake
BUF - very winnable game at home - W
@NYJ - winnable game - W
@OAK - should be a W
TEN - winnable game at home - W
@NE - L
IND - L
CLE - winnable game - W
That's eight wins on the season if they take care of business. OK, maybe they screw up against the Jets, or maybe the Browns. But maybe they beat the Jags again. It wouldn't be the first time they've swept them and they always play them tough. Maybe they shock someone on a bad day. It happens. Anyway you slice it, seven wins to match 2004's record is not a pipe dream and they might look better doing it than they did in 2004.
Really, I know your not a Carr fan but please don't tell me you are using Carr as the excuse for poor line play over the past 5 years.
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
You dont really think sometimes before your posts do you? Or do you lok over some of the facts. You cannot even begin to compare the garbage that te Texans had to what those teams Have/Had.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I'll let Vinny answer for himself if he so chooses, but as one who has often agreed with Vinny's takes on Carr, let me respond. The 5 lineman only make up a certain percentage of the responsibility to keep the QB clean. You have TE's, you have RB's, and yes, you have the QB himself. I don't know anyone, including Vinny, who has said we had a great line, and all sacks were Carr's fault. That would be a ridicoulous assertion. What he has said, and I concur, is that Carr contributed greatly to his own sack total, because of his poor pocket presence, holding the ball too long, not finding second receivers, etc. etc. Now, if you want to ignore the obvious, that's fine. But, the rest of us will know that you are a less than astute observer of the game.
My congrat's the the site. Sure Vinny and his goons took pot shots against Carr, but that's to be expected. But in their own way, they are slowly admitting that Super Dave is a Keyman to us having a good team. Had a good laugh at the way Carr was hurting our pass blocking, waiting to find out how he can help our defence with their pass rush.
As one of the so-called "goons", I think your statement is a low blow. In this case, I will speak somewhat for Vinny. I know Vinny well, and he has not taken any "pot shots" at Carr. There have been a few posters that have, but Vinny is not among them, and I think you should retract your unfair statement. Speaking the truth, based upon years of obsevations of NFL QB play, and relaying those observations, should not be seen as taking pot shots. Folks like yourself should be happy that someone with as keen of insite as Vinny has shared what he sees on the field. Is he also taking pot shots when praising Carr in this very thread? Do you have trouble reading? Vinny is not the only poster with great insite by any stretch, but he is one of our best, and deserves better than to be insulted as someone on some kind of witch hunt against Carr.
Thanks for answering for Vinny. I agree with some of what you say but disagree with a lot. I'm not sure what your definition of an "astute observer" is. I have been to every home game and watched every away game on TV. I played the game in my younger days and feel that I am as savvy about the game as anyone on this board. I don't post a gozillion times because there is a lot of garbage that I just blow by. So if you were trying to call me out, please don't and if I took it wrong then I apologize.
Now, as far as sacks, Carr is responsible for some of the sacks that he has taken. Everyone knows that. Our pass protection has been horrible over the past few years. Our offensive scheme last year was to get rid of the ball before a pocket developed. My personal opinion is that the line is playing better and most importantly our receiver play is much better. Everyone said he needed to get rid of the ball faster, I said to whom? The routes that were run in previous years were horrible and Gaffney and Bradford rarely looked for the ball. Carr is now able to throw to "spots" when pressure is coming rather than throwing into "elbows." At any rate this post is already too long and will quit as the debate continues.
Hulk75
Veteran
Can I just say this, DONT! please dont judge Carr on what he has done in the past, that was QB hell for him.
This IS NOT! the same QB you guys knew back then. Many have a misconstrued thought pattern of David Carr. All he is doing right now is leading the league with a 70% comp. rt. 10 td and 4 ints (should be 1 or 2)..........
You guys know what I am saying? He has had only 6 games under Kubiak and this is what he is doing!
This Offense leans a lot of its wieght on the running game, get Carr and Dre a running game and keep getting the Defense stronger and we will have our selves a VERY good football team.
This IS NOT! the same QB you guys knew back then. Many have a misconstrued thought pattern of David Carr. All he is doing right now is leading the league with a 70% comp. rt. 10 td and 4 ints (should be 1 or 2)..........
You guys know what I am saying? He has had only 6 games under Kubiak and this is what he is doing!
This Offense leans a lot of its wieght on the running game, get Carr and Dre a running game and keep getting the Defense stronger and we will have our selves a VERY good football team.
Wolf
100% Texan
Hulk75
Veteran
Crazy! I think it hurts them not having Troy Callhon............A LOT!
Well, if those linemen would've blocked for Bledsoe like they do for Brady they wouldn't have even needed a new QB.
I see the happy face, but I don't know how much of this post is sincere. But for those who believe you mean exactly what you say, I will reply.
Those linemen didn't all of a sudden get better. Brady was still sacked 44 times the year he won the SuperBowl. Opposing teams have found out over the years, that Brady doesn't fold or loose composure as easily as Bledsoe under pressure. Since Brady's first year, Teams have blitzed less, and his line has got better, but that first year, there is no way anyone can say that line is any better than the lines we've put on the field.
Teams have learned the David didn't perform well under pressure.
This year, Carr's been having "great games" despite being sacked 5 times in the Philly game, the Indy game, and the Miami game. Strange don't you think.....
Another thing, I think David Givens is going to prove to us that he is no better than Jabar Gafney, but his QB made him look a lot better than what he really is.
Bull. good/great offensive lines make pockets that allow the QB to work in a protected environment. Brady, McNabb, & Rothlisberger have not had that luxury with any consistency. Look especially to their early years, as their lines have got better in recent years.
Palmer, Manning, Brees, Green, Bulger..... those teams have had the best OLs in the league over the last 4 years. Most other teams are only slightly better if any better than the lines we've had.
Absolutely not. But our OL has been on the bad side of avg...... they've been averagely bad. Put Carr behind that line, and you get the worst OL in the league.
My congrat's the the site. Sure Vinny and his goons took pot shots against Carr, but that's to be expected. But in their own way, they are slowly admitting that Super Dave is a Keyman to us having a good team. Had a good laugh at the way Carr was hurting our pass blocking, waiting to find out how he can help our defence with their pass rush.
Slowly admitting ??
Vinny has been saying it for years. This team won't get better, until Carr gets better, to paraphrase what he's been saying over the last 4 years.
I agree the Jets are looking pretty good considering what they looked like last year. That is an important game, in my mind, to gauge where our team really is, but I don't think any game is as important as our game against Indy at home. If we are turning the corner, Indy is standing on it.
Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Nobody is complaining about David this year. We all feel just like you do going forward.
and this scares me. Did Kubiak make Plummer a better QB?? did he fix Plummer?? Or is Plummer still sup par, and Kubiak hid is deficiencies....... Is it just a matter of time before the old Carr shows up, or is that guy long gone??
on 3rd & 10, Carr hits AJ 4 yards past the LOS, but AJ still picks up the first.
I fail to see the humor.
NEROtheZERO
Waterboy
Right? I will never understand why a Texan fan can't appreciate having a good QB and WR.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Well TK not going to hammer on you again. Let's just say you have an elevated opinion over this o-line, far beyond my opionion of this o-line. We'll see which way the organization jumps at the end of April. And because The wolf in New England could augment his OL by taking latter day O-lineman dosen't mean CC could. Eagles already built a base for McNabb and suplimented that with Andrews not long ago.The last regime had a lot of wiffs. Not going to argue Brady vs Carr vs McNabb with you. Will say IMHO, Carr's proved in spades the first six that he is more than adiquate as a QB to take us where we want to go. Give him a "DECENT" o-line and he does well. My mind boggels at the prospect at what happens if we add the correct personnel next off season. JMHO.
that's true...... it'd be nice if our WR could catch everything, but that is rare even amoung probowlers which Andre is, and Carr will be.
but if Carr continues to hit AJ for 4 yards, and AJ turns that into a 27 yard gain, or if he hits AJ for 25, and AJ turns that into 54, & a touchdown..... AJ will look like a ProBowler regardless who his QB may be.
David has got to keep putting the ball on the numbers of AJ, Walter, Moulds, Cook & Owen beyound the first down marker on 3rd down.
I have no problem with dinking and dunking down the field, but if David wants the ball in his hands on 3rd down, then he needs to get that ball beyound the third down marker. If he continues to rely on his player to pick up the 4 yards, or the 7 yards they are short, then he is an avg QB who needs to be surrounded by great players.
I think he has what it takes to be a great QB, physically....
Wolf
100% Texan
that is the basis of Bill Walsh's west coast offense
montana,aikman,young made a living on that.. hopefully carr can too
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
What you mean to say is that physically, David has the ability to be a legendary QB. Quick on his feet, a cannon for an arm and as he is proving this year..... top tier accuracy.
Having guys like AJ and Moulds to throw to is something all QBs dream about. But David is proving that he is worth the money we paid for him by getting those two guys the ball as much as possible.
David isn't anywhere near the worst 3rd Down QB in the league, either. You want to know who is?
Tom Brady.
...and before all the anti-Carr parade blame that on Carr not following his progressions, if the only OPEN guy is the one underneath the coverage, THAT'S who you throw to.
Hey, I don't think DC is "there" yet by any means, but it's looking a lot better. This O-Line still has a LONG way to go...getting Spencer back should do wonders.