Dunta's hit on Desean jackson

[infantrycak]

Perfectly legal.

Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

 

[JB]

Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

Exactly! And you can see Dunta's dip down and then take a hard shot that sent him out of the game.

 

[gtexan02]

Nah. The reverse angle shows Dunta's helmet hitting Jackson's face mask. He's going to get fined.

I agree with Cak on this one. The reverse angle looks much worse.

In this shot, right after Jackson catches the balll, you can see Dunta, head up, looking for Jackson (hes on the right)

In this shot, Dunta lowers his head a full step before the collision, clearly intending to lead with his helmet. Dunta is a veteran guy. He went helmet first. It was blatant. You can see the way he positions his body he intends to spear him

In the final shot, you can see Duntas helmet connect with Jacksons helmet. The collision of helmet to helmet is so violent that it blurs the eagle logo on Jacksons helmet as it snaps around.

Duntas gonna get fined. I wouldnt be surprised to see him suspended

 

[silvrhand]

Gtexan, great shot of the bad hit..

I'm sorry if you think Dunta was legally hitting this guy you need to have your eyes checked. He lowered his head and used the momentem of his body to deliver the hit with his head down, like a rocket. This is just unacceptable as Pollard shoving that guy out of bounds into the kicking net..

Dunta should receive at least 1 game suspension.. it's the only way people will stop doing that. He could have easily not lowered his head.

 

[JB]

Gtexan, great shot of the bad hit..

I'm sorry if you think Dunta was legally hitting this guy you need to have your eyes checked. He lowered his head and used the momentem of his body to deliver the hit with his head down, like a rocket. This is just unacceptable as Pollard shoving that guy out of bounds into the kicking net..

Dunta should receive at least 1 game suspension.. it's the only way people will stop doing that. He could have easily not lowered his head.

Exactly! I don't think anyone would have a problem with the hit if DR had kept his head up and looked at what he was hitting.

DR probably would not have been injured if he did either.

 

[Rey]

I don't think he'll be fined.

Perfectly legal hit.

People saying he should not have lowered his head are wrong. That is how you tackle and hit...You lean your body in, and lower your head a little bit....Basic football 101...You are taught to put your helmet on defenders...You do not tackle with the front of your face mask, but rather at a tilted angle...

You are not supposed to use the top of your head like a spear but I don't think Dunta did that here....

I think Dunta was trying to give the receiver a shoulder. Try to hit the corner of a wall or any object with the top of your shoulder as if you had shoulder pads on and see if your head dips down a bit.

You do not stand straight up and tackle people. That will get YOU killed.

 

[gtexan02]

I don't think he'll be fined.

Perfectly legal hit.


...

You are not supposed to use the top of your head like a spear but I don't think Dunta did that here....

In that exact image you can see the top of Duntas helmet connecting with the Jackson.

 

[Rey]

In that exact image you can see the top of Duntas helmet connecting with the Jackson.

Looks like mostly the side of his head to me. Looks like he was trying to hit Jackson with his shoulder and there was some contact made with Jackson shoulder pad and Dunta's helmet...I don't think Jackson's concussion was due to any direct contact..

He is not using his helmet as a spear there.

Dunta would have to be looking at the ground and put the whole top of his helmet into the receiver...That's dangerous...That can cause sever neck and spinal injuries..

Concussions are part of the game. It's an unfortunate part of the game, but guys are going to get them playing football.

If you want to get rid of the whole physical aspect of the game, just make it touch football...But then some guy would probably get shoved too hard and scrape his knee and we'd just have to go to flags from there...

As a defender, if you don't get low and put your helmet on the ball carrier, they will probably do it to you...Look at the Earl Campbell hit on that Rams player...Earl put his helmet into the defenders chest and ran him smooth over...Running backs lower their heads all the time...

O-linemen put their helmets into the knees of defenders...Defenders are taught to put their helmet onto the ball carriers...That's just football...

Jim Rome was talking about this today, and I actually agree with him 100%...Dunta's hit was not dirty and he should not be fined...

 

[silvrhand]

Looks like mostly the side of his head to me.

He is not using his helmet as a spear there.

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

 

[NitroGSXR]

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

Come on now... Rey didn't deserve that.

 

[Texecutioner]

Don't really see how anyone could defend that hit. Helmet to helmet hits like those with these types of explosive athletes are practically like getting hit by a car or something. That hit put both guys out of the game and concussions are a big deal.

Dunta should be fined and suspended for sure.

 

[silvrhand]

Come on now... Rey didn't deserve that.

*GRIN* ok I'm not sure which is the insult you are complaining about though.. Nothing like a good like internet battle to start Monday.

 

[Goatcheese]

In this shot, Dunta lowers his head a full step before the collision, clearly intending to lead with his helmet. Dunta is a veteran guy. He went helmet first. It was blatant. You can see the way he positions his body he intends to spear him

That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.

In the final shot, you can see Duntas helmet connect with Jacksons helmet. The collision of helmet to helmet is so violent that it blurs the eagle logo on Jacksons helmet as it snaps around.

Jackson's helmet comes down after the initial contact and hits Robinson's. Your picture shows that.

This is the actual moment of contact. Jackson's head is still straight up and down with no contact what so ever with Robinson.

and the reverse

Duntas gonna get fined. I wouldnt be surprised to see him suspended

Maybe, but the league has fined people for all kinds of bogus crap.

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to ride Dunta's nuts.. You must like Vince Young too right?

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to hate Dunta.. You must like Vince Young too right?

 

[Rey]

That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.

Yep. Exactly.

Jackson's helmet comes down after the initial contact and hits Robinson's. Your picture shows that.

This is the actual moment of contact. Jackson's head is still straight up and down with no contact what so ever with Robinson.

That's what I thought as well. He got hit, his head snapped forward, then backwards...

 

[silvrhand]

That's how you're taught to tackle. A spear is when you put the top of your helmet into the opponents sternum. Robinson's head is turned to the side and hits Jackson high in the shoulder.

Goat, I'm not sure where you get your definition of spearing is "leading" with the crown of your helmet, it doesn't matter where you hit them.

Not going to reply, either you are A: trolling or B: have no idea what you are talking about and just want to hate Dunta.. You must like Vince Young too right?

I completely thought Rey was trolling, and honestly you guys really need to lookup spearing cause in this case you are wrong. He lead with the crown of his helmet which is the definition of spearing. I've played a lot of football and I've never been taught to tackle like he is here.

 

[Rey]

I completely thought Rey was trolling, and honestly you guys really need to lookup spearing cause in this case you are wrong. He lead with the crown of his helmet which is the definition of spearing. I've played a lot of football and I've never been taught to tackle like he is here.

He didn't lead with the crown of his helmet...

But even if he did, that would be more detrimental to his own health vs. the health of the receiver..

I understand you guys wanting to keep Dunta safe, but he lived.

In an NFL filled with Lions, Bengals and Bears, the most endangered species might be the defensive back.

It's the most dangerous spot on the field. In 2000 through 2003, NFL data showed that the highest injury rates belong to cornerbacks and safeties. Nearly seven of 10 DBs are hurt every year, according to the NFL's weekly injury reports.

For those who get hurt, half will suffer another, unrelated injury before the season ends.

They also sustain the highest rates of the injuries most likely to be catastrophic; 102 defensive backs have suffered brain concussions or neck and spinal injuries during the past four years.

"With as many hits as we take, as much pain as we have after the game, it kind of scares you a little bit, you know?" said Eric Brown, a seven-year safety for the Houston Texans.

Players, managers and NFL executives all point to two factors that make defensive backs so vulnerable: their size and their job description.

Cornerbacks or safeties, who must be fast to hang with receivers, are predators watching their prey outgrow them.

Since 1943, the average NFL player has super-sized himself 25 percent in body mass. But the DB is barely bigger than his World War II counterpart, who averaged 6 feet and 187 pounds. Today, same height, with a mere 8 pounds of extra weight.

And now the DB faces a trend in the NFL for taller, thicker and faster wide receivers such as the Steelers' Plaxico Burress (6-5, 225) and the Minnesota Vikings' Randy Moss (6-4, 210).

"You're trying to tackle a man who weighs, what, 230? 240? Most of the time, we're hitting tight ends, guys weighing 250, 260. And they tell us we have to hit these guys the same way? We're giving up 40, 50 pounds?" Brown said.

To compensate for his lack of body mass, a DB generates great speed before hitting a rusher or wideout. The collisions often come in midair.

"You don't have time to put yourself in the position for the perfect tackle," said Oakland Raiders safety David Terrell. "Pretty much, you're thinking, 'I've got to get this guy down.' Or hit him as hard as you can. I mean, it's a violent sport and most guys don't think about that when they tackle. They just throw their bodies around."

Players like Terrell learn from youth leagues on to keep their "neck up" when tackling. Lowering their heads runs the risk of fracturing spine and neck bones. Broken vertebrae have given the league two paralysis cases over the past 30 years, Mike Utley and Daryl Stingley.

At the same time, however, DBs are expected to go for the ball and force turnovers. They try to create fumbles by turning their helmets, necks and trunks into a human bottle openers, prying the pigskin loose.

Their helmets often act like the tip of a spear, a 4-pound bludgeon pinning the ball against the receiver's trunk and breaking his ribs.

In fact, wideouts suffer the most rib trauma in the league -- 35 over the last four years, according to NFL injury reports. Not surprisingly, DBs suffer a third more head, neck and spine injuries than their fellow players -- and are 26 percent more likely to sustain a concussion -- but report no fractured ribs.

Medical experts point to those anomalies and worry DBs are taking too many risks with head-first contact. In March, the National Athletic Trainers Association asked the NFL to better enforce rules outlawing head-down contact, or "spearing."

Spearing is a unique rule in football because, properly enforced, it's the only penalty designed to protect the player committing the foul. In any given game, 40 or more hits might meet the NFL's definition of spearing because of now routine head-down contact, according to the athletic trainers' studies of game film.

"That's what we're trying to fight, this idea that somehow head-down contact has been ingrained as part of the game, that it's part of football, and that nobody can do anything about it, and when it does happen, it's a 'freak accident' that wasn't preventable," said Jonathan Heck, athletic training coordinator at Richard Stockton College in New Jersey and a co-author of the trainers' report.

The problem for DBs is that game films say they're four times more likely to lead with their heads than the players they're hitting, so they will accrue the most penalties and fines.

"Pretty soon, I don't even think they're going to keep safeties around," said Brown, the Houston player. "I think they're going to get rid of us. It's to the point where they don't even need us there anymore."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/specialnfl/s_291035.html

I think it's mostly because it was Dunta and some people are still butt hurt over his last few years here. But this is how DB's hit receivers. The lead with their helmets...That's how your are taught...You are not supposed to hit with the crown of your helmet, but Dunta didn't do that here...

Anyways, you guys are just all over the place...Leading with your helmet down would have less to do with Jackson's health than it would Dunta's...

Remind me...Who's caught up in a love triangle with Dunta?

 

[Goatcheese]

We were taught to tackle by lining our head up with the center of their chest, then as we made the hit turn our head to either side and wrap up. The only thing Robinson did wrong was fail to wrap up.

The players were injured because almost 400 lbs collided at 40+ MPH and came to an almost instantaneous stop, not because of where or how they collided.

 

[infantrycak]

He didn't lead with the crown of his helmet...

Yeah he did.

I think it's mostly because it was Dunta and some people are still butt hurt over his last few years here. But this is how DB's hit receivers. The lead with their helmets...That's how your are taught...

Bull but if you are going to go into some kind of that's what they teach defense it doesn't fly because he is ignoring fundamental tackling. He ducks his right shoulder and doesn't even attempt to wrap with his right arm. The crown of his helmet hits 50% face mask and 50% pads at impact.

This has nothing particularly to do with Dunta. He is just happens to be one of three players in significant jeopardy for fines or suspensions along with Harrison and Merriweather because of helmet to helmet hits this weekend.

 

[Rey]

This has nothing particularly to do with Dunta. He is just happens to be one of three players in significant jeopardy for fines or suspensions along with Harrison and Merriweather because of helmet to helmet hits this weekend.

Almost everyone I've heard today says that Dunta's hit was legal.

They classify the other two hits differently, So no...I completely disagree with you here....Not even sure how you can even put the hits in the same category...

And you are also wrong saying he led with the crown of his helmet...He didn't...

If he is punished (which he shouldn't be), I don't think it will be as severe as the others...Many folks have said that this was a perfectly legal hit..I'd agree...

The only reason I jokingly mentioned this having something to do with Dunta specifically was because of a post on the last page...I could care less about how people feel about him...

 

[JB]

We were taught to tackle by lining our head up with the center of their chest, then as we made the hit turn our head to either side and wrap up. The only thing Robinson did wrong was fail to wrap up.

The players were injured because almost 400 lbs collided at 40+ MPH and came to an almost instantaneous stop, not because of where or how they collided.

I have watched a number of times, and I have yet to see any angle where DR turned his head to the side.

 

[Rey]

I have watched a number of times, and I have yet to see any angle where DR turned his head to the side.

You see that white part on the helmet...That is the front of his helemt...Hence his head not spearing him...hence his head turning to the side...

Notice the white on the front of his teammates helmet at the top...You see him in the background?

You don't see that if Dunta's head hits him straight on.....

He did not spear him...The side of his helmet hit Jackson's shoulder pads....Either way, spearing him would have put Dunta in jeopardy more than the receiver...

 

[Double Barrel]

This hit would have been a highlight on the old "Jacked Up!" segment ESPN did just a couple of years ago.

Safety is becoming so paramount in the NFL that a lot of the fundamental techniques taught in the past are eventually going to be outlawed, for better or for worse.

I can see both sides of this discussion, but I tend to lean toward the 'DR was leading with his helmet' side. And this is nothing against DR, because I wish he was still in a Texans uni right now. He certainly wouldn't make our crappy defense any worse.

 

[Rey]

What the heck are you talking about? The white below Dunta's helmet is Jackson's jersey. It obviously is not the much smaller plastic strip on the front of the helmet.

LOL....ok....

Now I'm convinced some of you guys eyes are deceiving you...

There is no way that white below his helmet is Jackson's Jersey...If you look at the picture where Dunta's teammate is in the frame you can see that they have a decent sized white strip right where the two screws would be in the front of the helmet...

What are you talking about saying it's Jackson's jersey? Seriously?

[/IMG]

 

[infantrycak]

LOL....ok....

Now I'm convinced some of you guys eyes are deceiving you...

LOL all you want. The angle is irrelevant. He could have come flying in upside down. It was helmet to helmet. The folks whose eyes need checked are those claiming Dunta's helmet didn't hit Jackson's and Jackson's head just came forward onto Dunta's.

 

[Rey]

LOL all you want. The angle is irrelevant. He could have come flying in upside down. It was helmet to helmet. The folks whose eyes need checked are those claiming Dunta's helmet didn't hit Jackson's and Jackson's head just came forward onto Dunta's.

I never said that his helmet didn't hit Jackson's...

In fact earlier in the thread I said that Dunta's helmet hit Jackson's facemask, but that it looked like it was part of the hit rather than Dunta aiming for his helmet...

The majority of the hit was was Dunta's shoulder pad going into the receivers chest...

Heck, I never even denied that he led with his helmet...I did say that he didn't lead with the crown of his helmet though...

And the angle is completely relevant to the post I quoted and mentioned that in...just go back and read...

 

[Texan_Bill]

Either way Dunta is a dumbass. He's lucky he didn't break his own freakin neck. Anywho, deserving of a fine? Yes, the max. Worthy of suspension? No!
Why? I don't think it was Dunta's intention to injure. I beleive that he really was trying to deliver a big hit - but not injure...

That said, he's still an asshat and I'm still glad he's GONE!!!

 

[infantrycak]

Anywho, deserving of a fine? Yes, the max. Worthy of suspension? No!
Why? I don't think it was Dunta's intention to injure. I beleive that he really was trying to deliver a big hit - but not injure...

That's what I think as well. Dunta was trying to dish out a big hit and came up too much out of his coil so that the helmets contacted. I think Meriweather is going to get the biggest punishment as he left his feet to make a helmet to helmet hit on a player already tackled and just waiting to hit the ground. One of Harrison's hits looked unintentional but the other will probably draw punishment.