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Does Andre Johnson Deserve a New Contract?
- Thread starter GuerillaBlack
- Start date
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
To put it in perspective, when Andre Johnson and the Texans agreed to the 8 year $60MM deal in 2007, the franchise tag figure for WR's was $7.6MM and his average annual pay was $7.5MM.
However, in reality he had 2 years left on his current contract at that time earning $5.25MM and $7.75MM for 07 and 08, respectively. Basically what they did was restructure those 2 years and add on a 6 year extension. So that's basically 6 additional years with $47MM in additional income. The "new" portion of his contract averaged $7.8MM a year. However by restructuring/extending Andre actually received almost $19MM during 07 and 08, combined.
Please note, this could be construed as 'fuzzy math'.
However, in reality he had 2 years left on his current contract at that time earning $5.25MM and $7.75MM for 07 and 08, respectively. Basically what they did was restructure those 2 years and add on a 6 year extension. So that's basically 6 additional years with $47MM in additional income. The "new" portion of his contract averaged $7.8MM a year. However by restructuring/extending Andre actually received almost $19MM during 07 and 08, combined.
Please note, this could be construed as 'fuzzy math'.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
On the one hand, i think he should be paid as the top guy in the league, He's always been a great player for us causing no problems whatsoever.
On the other it's like come on dude, you signed the extension & locked yourself in for another 5. If you had any reservations about it whatsoever, you shouldn't have signed it.
On the other it's like come on dude, you signed the extension & locked yourself in for another 5. If you had any reservations about it whatsoever, you shouldn't have signed it.
Blake
MMQB
Except AJ is not going to sit out for 5 years to make his point.
He can demand more money and he deserves it based on his play, but fact is we've got him on paper for 5 years and unless he plays, he doesn't get the checks
b0ng
Bad Hombre
A team can terminate a contract at any time for any reason and only be on the hook for what's guaranteed and the signing bonus. They don't have to honor the entire contract. But the player, oh the player. He better not ask for a pay raise because "he signed a contract dadgumnit".
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It's fair b/c the organization has all the real power & the players know it. If there was a lock out, the players suffer most not the owners b/c for 1 the owners are already billionaires & will be whether they come back or not. 2, the players only have that small window during their playing days to get what they can & truthfully can't afford to sit out even half a year.
But getting back to your main point,The organization doesn't have to pay anything up...They can just say "shut up, sit down & honor your contract %^&*" ; pretty much how The cards did Boldin & how we did Dunta. If they still want to act stupid..they can be cut at any time as only a small amount (relatively speaking) is guaranteed.
The problem comes when you've got players like AJ who haven't been a problem & who actually have a case.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He's gone way beyond doing everything he can to make that happen. It's not his fault that the rest of the team hasn't done their part all of these years.
This is such a double standard, and its so frustrating that people don't realize that there are two sides.
The NFLPA agreed to the contract situation in the CBA. They agreed because they wanted guaranteed money.
The NFL is unique in that contracts can be terminated by the employer, but its also unique in that players are given millions and millions of dollars up front. The signing bonus offsets the contract termination.
If owner A signs player 1 to a 5 year 50 million deal with 10 up front, he owes A $10 million no matter what.
If A performs to the level of the deal, the contract is fair for both sides
If A outperforms the deal, the owner is getting a good value
If A underperforms the deal, the owner can cut him but is still on the hook for the salary + 10 million up front
Lets say DeMeco falls down the stairs and can never play football again.
McNair already gave him a guaranteed $22 million.
So even though DeMeco never played a down on that new contract, he still gets the 22 million.
In a sport where career ending injuries and bust potential is sky high, the NFLPA thought it best to agree to a system that places a premium on getting money up front. In order to get that, the owners had to get somethign to. They got the ability to terminate contracts early (at the expense of both the salary cap AND the guaranteed money and bonuses).
People act like the players have it so rough because the owners can terminate a contract and the players can't. But you're ignoring that both the owners and players take a risk with every deal. Its not a 1 way street.
Andre Johnson is my favorite player, bar none. I have 2 of his jerseys. He is 100% my favorite. That said, I do not respect him for trying to get a new deal 2.5 years into his extension. It was his choice to sign that deal, and he HAD to know that at 26, an 8 year deal would make him signed until he was 34. I would want the Texans to do anything to keep him. Even give him his new deal (and yes, he has outperformed his old deal). But that said, I think its ridiculous that people fault the system and the owners for having all the leverage. They don't. Think Al Davis had all the power when Russel walked away with tens of millions for doing nothing?
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Just the worst Russian accent ever...
eriadoc
Texan-American
To quote Clint Eastwood in "Unforgiven", deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
It's business. He negotiated a contract that was front loaded. Now that he's gotten the biggest chunk of money out of the deal, he wants to rip up the contract and negotiate a new one. From a business standpoint (employer), you'd have to be stupid to do that.
Think of it this way - if AJ had signed a contract to play for the Texans for 8 years and it was $100M and somehow got all $100M of it in the first year ..... do you think he should play out the remaining 7 years? Evidently AJ doesn't, because that's pretty close to what we're talking about here.
It's business. He negotiated a contract that was front loaded. Now that he's gotten the biggest chunk of money out of the deal, he wants to rip up the contract and negotiate a new one. From a business standpoint (employer), you'd have to be stupid to do that.
Think of it this way - if AJ had signed a contract to play for the Texans for 8 years and it was $100M and somehow got all $100M of it in the first year ..... do you think he should play out the remaining 7 years? Evidently AJ doesn't, because that's pretty close to what we're talking about here.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Actually, he really doesn't have much leverage. He's under contract for five more years. I doubt he sits for five years. He'll play.
Shaft75
All Pro
You can't really mean that. Look at what happened when he was injured. Our team took a HUGE step backwards. Figure out a way to make it work before he and the organization are villified during training camp.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
So, you honestly think Andre is going to sit out for five years? Be real here. He has almost no leverage in this situation. He'll be missing out on game checks, also.
Blake
MMQB
Same thing can be said for the Texans org. You gonna let your best player ever, sit in the stands cause you wanna play hardball?
Shaft75
All Pro
Literally, no. Figuratively, yes.
It should scare the organization as much as it would the fan to see Dre not in the lineup. Seriously the guy has pretty good reason to ask for some more compensation.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=nfl&id=1575
So if I'm reading this correctly, years '10-'14 he will earn an aggregate $34.2 Million. That's 5 seasons remaining at an avg. annual salary of $6.83 Million. That also means that years '07-'09 he earned $25.8 Million. That's 3 seasons at an avg. annual salary of $8.6 Million.
So he's completed the years where he earned the most of his contract and wants to restructure the remaining years so he can earn more. Now that's smart business.
Let's look at history and how he ranked in the league:
2003: 16 games, 66 rec for 976 yds (16th), 5 TDs (37th)
2004: 16 games, 79 rec for 1,142 yds (17th), 2 TDs (31st)
2005: 13 games, 63 rec for 688 yds (48th), 6 TDs (89th)
2006: 16 games, 103 rec for 1,147 yds (11th), 4 TDs (36th)
*3/3/07: Restructures remaining 2 years and signs a new 8 year contract paying him an average of $7.5MM per year. 2007 Franchise Tag Figure for WRs is $7.6MM.
So if I'm reading this correctly, years '10-'14 he will earn an aggregate $34.2 Million. That's 5 seasons remaining at an avg. annual salary of $6.83 Million. That also means that years '07-'09 he earned $25.8 Million. That's 3 seasons at an avg. annual salary of $8.6 Million.
So he's completed the years where he earned the most of his contract and wants to restructure the remaining years so he can earn more. Now that's smart business.
Let's look at history and how he ranked in the league:
2003: 16 games, 66 rec for 976 yds (16th), 5 TDs (37th)
2004: 16 games, 79 rec for 1,142 yds (17th), 2 TDs (31st)
2005: 13 games, 63 rec for 688 yds (48th), 6 TDs (89th)
2006: 16 games, 103 rec for 1,147 yds (11th), 4 TDs (36th)
*3/3/07: Restructures remaining 2 years and signs a new 8 year contract paying him an average of $7.5MM per year. 2007 Franchise Tag Figure for WRs is $7.6MM.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
With the staff being on as thin of ice as it is (Come on, how many people were pissed off that Kubiak, et al was retained?) you would think that the lynchpin of the Texans identity (big passing game) would have some leverage. Especially if this season is a disaster and all of the staff run the risk of getting fired.
I don't think AJ would sit the season even if he didn't get his new deal or a re-structured deal this season. But if he did, the effect could be that all of the people who negotiate with him would change. Also, the people upset about the timing aren't really grasping the entire big picture here. If there wasn't the looming situation that there might not be football in 2011 I'm willing to bet AJ wouldn't be taking actions to let his feelings be known.
It's funny people want to compare themselves to athletes of AJ's and other NFL players caliber and then complain that they don't make a gazillion dollars a year to edit a database or sit in a cubicle. You are not based in reality and your earning power has zero relevance to high money contract negotiations in professional sports. If you feel upset that somebody else wants more money fine but you just sound like a jealous ex-girlfriend when you bring that up as some sort of reason that a player shouldn't get paid.
I don't think AJ would sit the season even if he didn't get his new deal or a re-structured deal this season. But if he did, the effect could be that all of the people who negotiate with him would change. Also, the people upset about the timing aren't really grasping the entire big picture here. If there wasn't the looming situation that there might not be football in 2011 I'm willing to bet AJ wouldn't be taking actions to let his feelings be known.
It's funny people want to compare themselves to athletes of AJ's and other NFL players caliber and then complain that they don't make a gazillion dollars a year to edit a database or sit in a cubicle. You are not based in reality and your earning power has zero relevance to high money contract negotiations in professional sports. If you feel upset that somebody else wants more money fine but you just sound like a jealous ex-girlfriend when you bring that up as some sort of reason that a player shouldn't get paid.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
b0ng - In my case, I understand where AJ is coming from and would probably be in the same frame of mind if I were him. He has every reason to want to restructure his deal. But from Rick Smith's perspective, he has a player locked up for the next 5 years, there are concerns over the 2011 season and what effects it may have on player expenses, he's busy negotiating rookie contracts and he's trying to find additional talent to add to this team. This is one of Smith's busiest times of the year, if not the busiest.
I think all this is, is Andre doing his thing right now. He's finishing up his college degree, he's working out and staying in shape, and he's worked hard enough and accomplished enough the last 7 seasons that's it's 'acceptable' for him to miss voluntary team activities. I think he's made it known to Rick Smith that he would like to restructure his contract but I in no way, shape or form believe he's threatening the organization. He's letting them know early enough of what he wants and I'm pretty sure he doesn't fully expect to have a new deal in place in the near future. Rick Smith has knowledge now that part of his moves have to be with the foresight that he's going to have to restructure AJ's deal in the next couple years and to be ready for it. I think this is going to be real similar to when Demeco wanted to restructure last year and Smith was busy dealing with Dunta... Demeco waited a year and got rewarded.
I think all this is, is Andre doing his thing right now. He's finishing up his college degree, he's working out and staying in shape, and he's worked hard enough and accomplished enough the last 7 seasons that's it's 'acceptable' for him to miss voluntary team activities. I think he's made it known to Rick Smith that he would like to restructure his contract but I in no way, shape or form believe he's threatening the organization. He's letting them know early enough of what he wants and I'm pretty sure he doesn't fully expect to have a new deal in place in the near future. Rick Smith has knowledge now that part of his moves have to be with the foresight that he's going to have to restructure AJ's deal in the next couple years and to be ready for it. I think this is going to be real similar to when Demeco wanted to restructure last year and Smith was busy dealing with Dunta... Demeco waited a year and got rewarded.
You're right about that, and it goes both ways.
A team that has never been to the playoffs and has had one winning season in 8 years does not deserve a player of AJ's caliber.
But, deserve's got nothing to do with it.
The players are on AJ's side. Always have been and always will be. Show this team that we take care of our sole superstar. Show them how important it is that we value him and compensate his performance, work ethic, and leadership.
Or, play your little front office games and confirm that it really is all about the money at the end of the day.
Superstars are treated differently. That's just the way it is. And deserve has everything to do with it.
JMO, of course.
You're right about that, and it goes both ways.
A team that has never been to the playoffs and has had one winning season in 8 years does not deserve a player of AJ's caliber.
But, deserve's got nothing to do with it.
The players are on AJ's side. Always have been and always will be. Show this team that we take care of our sole superstar. Show them how important it is that we value him and compensate his performance, work ethic, and leadership.
Or, play your little front office games and confirm that it really is all about the money at the end of the day.
Superstars are treated differently. That's just the way it is. And deserve has everything to do with it.
JMO, of course.
Do you really think the players want that though? They are smart enough to know that in a salary cap era NFL, its a zero sum game.
Theres $X to be had, and if AJ takes up more of it, it means theres less for guys like OD.
I dont think probowl but not superstar level players want to know that superstars are treated differently. I think they want to see everyone get what they are due.
Make the probowl, work your ass off, get an extension.
Owen Daniels is the one who deserves it the most
MannyFresh
El Capitan
Its the greedy uncle's fault...who is that cat anyway?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
You better believe that players are always rooting for guys on their team to get paid because that means that they in turn can also get paid. There's no way that AJ getting a huge deal this offseason would upset other players on the team because it's AJ. What player has given more to this particular team than Andre Johnson?
with uncapped year the Texans could kill two birds with one stone & both could come out winners
This.
TexansBlood
The CUSH!
More and more drama with the Texans. How about we make the playoffs this yr AJ then talk about your contract early next season... Makes me sick!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
While your argument makes some logical sense N D Kalu says it is dead wrong. I think to highlight the problem you bring up to the players you would almost need a circumstance like Manning being signed with Freeney being released to make room for his contract. Until then they are just rooting for big contracts.
Shaft75
All Pro
We're dealing with football players here. Their football IQ is resounding, their regular IQ...
