Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Wolf, Jul 22, 2006.

  1. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    yes I know it is a 2004 article.. and yes it does talk about Denver, but as I am reading, I am replacing Shanahan in the article with Kubiak and Denver with houston

    http://www.nysun.com/article/5212
     
  2. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    we are looking at possible

    LT

    Wand 6'7 327
    spencer 6'4 352
    Bedell 6'4 318
    sallaam 6'7 300


    LG
    Pitts 6'3 320
    louvern 6'3 299

    C

    Flannigan 6'5 301
    Hodgen 6'3 309

    RG

    McKinney 6'4 302

    RT

    weigart 6'5 309
    Winston 6'7 310


    http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster.php?section=TH Players

    I know I am missing some people , will edit accordingly
     
  3. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    we definitely aren't in the below 300 pound range.. for running(according to article).. :heh:
     
  4. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    http://broncos.scout.com/2/477000.html

    wasn't it Kubiak calling the shots?

    wow 3 and 25.. I am not sure what we will do. I am so used to a run up the middle on that down and distance :francis:


    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/sfn/super/denatl/bron12.htm

    Maybe Carr will start having fun if the coaches have confidence in him
     
  5. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    Wand and Pitts will both be closer to 310-315 come gameday - if they aren't already. There is no way that Spencer plays at 350+ pounds. 325???
     
  6. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    yeah, when I saw that on the website.. I was like WOW!

    and looking at all the guys we have suprised me on their weight and stuff, I am not saying the guys we have are slobs, I thought their weight would be down in the 280-300 range
     
  7. Grid

    Grid Hall of Fame

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    MOST offensive linemen are in the low 300s (300-310lbs).. the offensive linemen that Denver uses are "special order".. you dont find alot of high profile linemen in the draft that are in the 280lb range.. most of those guys go on the second day.

    You also dont see many teams in the league that use linemen that small..

    lets look at some running teams around the league and the weights of their linemen.

    Chargers: 291, 295, 310, 304, 329, 311, 312, 317, 320, 336, 305, 323

    Chiefs: 310, 310, 310, 310, 302, 310, 290, 293, 301, 321, 320, 310, 320, 315, 300, 320, 310, 285

    Seahawks: 325, 297, 309, 305, 305, 308, 301, 295, 310, 308, 330, 327, 305

    Bears: 295, 301, 329, 307, 318, 300, 295, 300, 330, 295, 320, 335, 315, 318, 315

    Steelers: 299, 254, 318, 296, 307, 324, 321, 295, 277, 315, 344, 319, 313, 307


    As you can see.. the Denver olinemen arent a "strong running game thing".. they are just a "denver thing". Its how thier system works.. it is not an unwritten rule that you have to have small linemen to have a good running game.

    One person theorized on here that maybe Denver used smaller linemen because of the elevation in Denver.. larger linemen maybe got tired too quickly. I dunno if thats true.. but that idea has at least as much credibility as this article's.

    The size of our linemen is fine.. the important thing with the zone blocking is the speed and agility of the linemen.. and we have some fairly quick and agile guys.
     
  8. Insideop

    Insideop Hall of Fame

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    I agree with everything you said here and I have also heard the same thing about Denver having the smaller linemen because of the altitude and the endurance issues with the players.

    Good post Wolf! And, good follow up Grid! Thanks for the read!:ok:
     


  9. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    very good analysis
     
  10. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    There are players out there that at 250 pounds move as if their feet were planted in cement. There are others at 310 to 325+ that can wear cement boots, never miss a step and crush everything beneath their feet...........we have some of the latter.
     
  11. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    somehow I stumbled on this and even though Alex Gibbs name isn't mentions (or I missed it).. and it is the offseason.. gives me something to read about
     
  12. awtysst

    awtysst Draft Guru

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    Wolf here is an update names are in alphabetical order not depth. I also didnt break it down because after a starter and primary backup U wasnt sure where everyone was.

    we are looking at possible

    Tackles
    Black 6'5 310
    Butler 6'4 293
    Frye 6'4 302
    salaam 6'7 302
    spencer 6'4 337
    Winston 6'5 307


    Guards

    Brisiel 6'5 310
    Myers 6'4 295
    Pitts 6'4 322
    Stevenson 6'5 300
    Studdard 6'2 310


    Centers
    Eslinger 6'3 290
    McKinney 6'4 305
    White 6'2 293

    Potential starting lineup:

    Salaam-Pitts-White-Brisiel-Winston

    In that lineup only Pitts is significantly over 300 @322. All others are within 10 lbs(or under 300). Mean weight=306.8lbs

    If Studdard came in for Pitts, then everyone is within 10lbs(or under 300) Mean weight= 304.4.

    Clearly 2.4 lbs makes no difference. What we need are good lineman with good lateral movement.

    Just for shits and giggles the 06 starting line mean weight was: 311.8 lbs.

    Quick comparison: 06=311.8lbs vs 08=304.4-306.6lbs

    Thus it is not the weight, but the lateral movement and overall talent that defines an O-Line and its effectiveness in the ZBS.
     
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  13. kiwitexansfan

    kiwitexansfan Site Contributor

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    Looking at '06 vs '08 in terms of personal we have available for our lines, you have to think the talent level is higher now than it was back then, at the very least I am more optimistic with the group we have now.
     
  14. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    In the past 4 years we can see NFL players getting larger and larger. As the DL size goes up, the need for staying somewhat "matched" requires a somewhat larger OL, especially since the NFL is growing "big men" that are maintaining mobility equivalent of the "smaller men" of old. Compensating alone for size (with quickness, speed, mobility, etc) can eventually only go so far towards avoiding the wearing out of the OL at the end of the game, no matter what the compensatory scheme may be. The need is to stay up with size as much as you can, at the same time as still excelling in mobility.
     
  15. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Myers was brought in to play C and that is how they have him listed on the roster.
     
  16. Bubbajwp

    Bubbajwp All Flopper

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    I wonder how that compares to the rest of the NFL?
    I also wonder what the highest mean weight for olines is in the NFL?
    My guess Cowgirls.
     
  17. Bubbajwp

    Bubbajwp All Flopper

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    I also wonder how that compares to the Bronco's mean weight? I'd look but im at school.
     
  18. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

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    The article although written the end of 2006 is a quite telling commentary on how the NFL has evolved weight wise in relation to time, performance, etc......especially as relates to Olinemen. The entire article is worth reviewing (like the Broncos OLineman who drank a gallon of water and put weight in his jock strap just to be able to weigh in at the minimum).:

    Heavy pressure: NFL players struggle with weight game
    Since the 1980s, NFL players have packed on the pounds, but is the league's emphasis on weight harmful?

    By Carlos Frias, William M. Hartnett
    Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

    Sunday, October 29, 2006


     
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  19. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Hmmm, maybe selective research. The dominant '90's Cowboys clearly won more games than they lost--101 to 59. That was when their OL was huge and gave up the least number of sacks in a decade. 25 years is too long a time period for this kind of examination--clearly not the same players or even coaches and systems in most instances.
     
  20. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

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    Mark Stepnoski was a smallish Center, and may have brought the Cowboys avg. weight down. The rest of their line was massive.
     

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