Defensive players drafted under Smithiak era

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by VTexan, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. VTexan

    VTexan The Realist

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    Mario Williams

    Demeco Ryans

    Amobi Okoye

    Fred Bennett

    Brandon Harrison

    Zac Diles

    Antwaun Molden

    Xavier Adibi

    Frank Okam

    Dominique Barber

    Brian Cushing

    Connor Barwin

    glover quinn

    Brice McCain

    troy nolan

    Kareem Jackson

    Earl Mitchell

    Daryl Sharpton

    Sherrick McMannis




    So you have a total of 19 defensive players taken over 5 drafts. 2 are pro-bowlers (mario, demeco) and then you have Brian Cushing (who we don't know what well get with him next year). 2 Average backup linebackers /starters and 1 average DT (Amobi). That leaves you with 13 other players that are not starting or shouldn't be)


    Does Rick Smith deserve to stay as GM?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  2. Texas T

    Texas T Hall of Fame

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    I don't know if I completely agree with your take.
    Some of these "busts" have shown flashes of what they are capable of.
    I really, really think it comes down to coaching, they are not being put in a position to make things happen.
    I do believe this is the case-new DC-better product.
     
  3. Blake

    Blake MMQB

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    You are counting 2 rookies and 2 2nd year pro's as busts? There is an unspoken rule that you should wait 3-4 years to make a decision on if a player is a bust or not.
     
  4. TheCD

    TheCD All Pro

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    To answer your question first: No, Smith does not deserve to stay. We have proverbially thrown everything at the wall and few guys have stuck. Maybe it's more coaching, but at the same time Smith's job is to draft guys that fit what the coaches want to do.


    I will vehemently disagree with you on these two picks. Have they sucked something fierce at times? Yes. But they both have shown some good things. It's really unfair to judge a very young corner when there is no true safety help. Corners get beat all the time (yes, even...Darrell "Oh man my hammy magically hurts that's why I couldn't cover you Randy" Revis), but good safety play either covers up, minimizes, or even turns it into a positive with TO's.

    I will definitely say I've got no idea what Kareem will give us, but to say he's a bust is absurd.

    I think the light has come on for Glover, I really do. I'm seeing him put himself into good positions, and make good, smart plays on the ball. Chances are he will never be a shutdown corner. But that doesn't mean he can't be good and cover number one's very well in the future.
     
  5. Doppelganger

    Doppelganger None

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    My differences are in your post in bold. I don't know how you can call rookies and 2nd year players busts. Is the reason they are not on the field Bush's issue, Kubiak, or theirs? I don't know, but very few players step right onto the field from college and are superstars or solid starters.

    Does Smith deserve to go? I don't know. I want to know how much a role Kubiak and the D coordinators have had in draft picking before I render a decision.
     
  6. nero THE zero

    nero THE zero Hall of Fame

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    Pretty skewed assessment.

    Things like Diles being an "average back-up" and Mario being "debateable" is laughable. Diles is an average starter, he's a fantastic back-up and Mario is a 2-time All-Pro (in 4 seasons). Debateable? The only thing debateable about him is if he ends up as a really good NFL player or in the HOF.
     
  7. ThaShark316

    ThaShark316 #28

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    1st and 2nd year players can't be busts unless they no longer play for your team.
     
  8. Texan_Bill

    Texan_Bill Subscribed Contributor

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    Sour grapes post?
     


  9. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

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    (1)DeMeco is clearly the best defensive player Smith/Kubiak have drafted,
    maybe not the most talented, but the best player and far and away the best value. We missed him last night, we've missed him every game he's been out since his injury.
    (2)Mario is certainly very talented and worthy of being called NFL-starting calibre Dlineman, but his salary/cap is hard to justify given his inconsistancy.
    (3)Drafting Okoye at #10 overall was a major mistake. End of story.
    (4) We'll have to wait on the decision for Cushing given his outstanding rookie year that has been deeply compromised by all the events of 2010,
    including inconclusive performanes on the field to this point.
    (5) The wisdom of the Kareem Jackson pick in the first round of this Draft looks very dubious at this point. He's just a rookie, but he's got to really come around to justify anywhere near the position he was taken.
    (6) Connor Barwin's injury this year simply makes an evaluation rating impossible.
    (7) McShantis has not had anywhere near the opportunity Kareem has to prove himself, and its way to soon to grade him, but I'm thinking he's gonna be a better cover guy that KJ (faint praise I know), and did anybody notice the play he made last night with the tackle on the ball-carrier in the backfield ? That was impressive.
     
  10. dream_team

    dream_team Hall of Fame

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    Guys drafted in the rounds 5-7 aren't expected to be stars. These guys are either projects or mainly for depth.

    Zac Diles was a 7th round pick. Most guys picked in the 7th round don't even make the team! So the fact you called him an "average backup" already makes him a good pick.

    The same goes for guys like Dominique Barber, Troy Nolan, Sherrick McMannis & Brice McCain. These guys were low draft picks and were mainly brought on for depth. And I think they fill that role nicely.
     
  11. DexmanC

    DexmanC Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to see how this defense looks with decent coaching. That
    still has yet to happen under Kubiak.
     
  12. burro

    burro almost sentient

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    Can anyone drafted outside the 2nd round of the draft really be called a bust? Let's not forget that one has to be hyped up before they fail to be a bust. This was not the case with hardly any of the players listed. I suppose you could make an argument for Okoye, but I still believe that he is just poorly coached and could be a really good player with the proper motivation.
     
  13. VTexan

    VTexan The Realist

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    Okay. Fair points, we DO need to wait a couple years before I clarify as busts. But I am mainly pointing out that they have not lived to any type of expectations when I say bust.

    I know 5-7th round picks won't turn out to be superstars but good gm's make those picks be viable starters at a lot better probability.

    The question I am trying to propose is people seem to think Rick Smith is safe but should he?
     
  14. spurstexanstros

    spurstexanstros Texans Rising

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    It was a huge mistake drafting so many defesive linemen in the first and second round
     
  15. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Modified Simian

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    I'm not going to say who is or is not a 'bust', but, I will say that it's not a very impressive list of defensive players from 5 years of drafts.
     
  16. Maddict5

    Maddict5 Hall of Fame

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    were you away for most of last season?
     
  17. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    Mario and DeMeco were pre-Smith, so his record is even worse than it looks.
     
  18. TimeKiller

    TimeKiller Guest

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    http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1574090&postcount=10

    Started a thread about this a few weeks back. There aren't many good things to say when you lay it out like this. 2006 was a great draft but Smith wasn't involved. Last year's draft (The Cushing draft, if you will) seemed to produce a player or two. The years in between though...laughable.
     
  19. Rey

    Rey Guest

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    We should've kept Casserly.
     
  20. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    No, it isn't pretty. This much effort should yield at least slightly better results.

    Mario Williams- Productive by and large. Doesn't show up enough to be the dominant player we hoped he'd be at the first overall spot but he's got ability and produces enough to be considered a good pick.

    Demeco Ryans- Very good pick who we almost didn't get. If the coaches had their way his pick would have been rolled up into a trade up for DeAngelo Williams so we're fortunate to have him.

    Amobi Okoye- I would agree that he's slowly crawling toward "capable" but you can sign that same level of impact off the street and in free agency almost any year and we've proven it. Guys with better motors can be found easily and they always outperform Amobi. His also a victim here in a way. It's not like Okoye picked himself over Revis or Willis. The Texans picked him too high and Okoye has to try and live up to it. I just keep waiting for the light bulb to come on but I think he's one of those intelligent "nice" players the Texans take all the time. Those guys don't generally turn into beasts no matter how long you wait.

    Fred Bennett- Just no evidence of football instincts at all. One good year can be viewed as a sign of ability or as a fluke occurrence once you see the bad that follows. If his rookie season meant anything we'd have at least seen flashes after that but he did nothing. Clearly a bad pick and good riddance.

    Brandon Harrison - I swear I just draw a complete blank whenever I see this guys name. It's like "Does he play for us? Who is he again?"

    Zac Diles - Depth at best anywhere other than here.

    Antwaun Molden - A complete bust of a pick. When he isn't hurt he can be vaulted in the depth chart by a guy the Dolphins threw into the trash heap 11 days prior. He's a special teams commando who gets hurt at the drop of a hat (Any hat. Anywhere) so how does this guy stick around when Bennett got sent packing? How useful is a player who is this easily injured?

    Xavier Adibi - See Antwuan Molden but throw in a little Zac Diles. Adibi's ability is equal to that last LB on your depth chart who is only there for special teams because hes got lousy instincts at his "position". You pray you never need to use him at LB but eventually you do and you're screwed. Thing about Adibi is that he isn't even a special teams standout. So what exactly keeps us from upgrading his roster spot again?

    Frank Okam - Another soft, smart guy in the body of a beast but who will never be that big run stuffing force in the middle. It's just not in his nature. Good citizen, bad pick.

    Dominique Barber - Can't unseat anybody in the worst secondary in the NFL, possibly in NFL history. that says it all.

    Brian Cushing - Brilliant rookie season, MIA this year for a long time but he's looked more like Brian Cushing in the past few weeks. The Texans did a grave disservice to him by moving him to the middle following his suspension. They basically extended it and made him a non-factor when he came back instead of letting him return to his natural position. If he closes the season strong I'll feel a lot better about him than I do now.

    Connor Barwin - Yes, the jury is still out but it's a crime that we had to go back out and draft Jason Babin again because our coach and GM were stupid enough to trade away a player they needed. I think he'll be fine if the ankle doesn't turn into a recurring problem.

    Glover Quin - Our Champ Bailey, our Darrell Revis. The best we have thanks to our decision to purge all of our veterans prior to the season. Promising rookie season and flashes here and there in this year of terrible defense. Hopefully he doesn't just go completely off the map like Bennett did. I think he'll stick and he's got enough skills to be a starter opposite a real shut down corner. Pity we haven't had one of those since Aaron Glenn. If Okoye's pick had been used on Revis we'd be set right now.

    Brice McCain - Immediatley passed in ability by Dolphin's castaway Jason Allen like Molden. I'm not sure what he's even doing out there half the time.

    Troy Nolan - Can't consistently bust through the starting tandem of Pollard and Wilson so what's to get excited about here? Flashes but come on, if he was any good at all he'd have Wilson on the bench right now.

    Kareem Jackson - Rookie in a no-win situation. I'm not going to dog him on this. I'm just going to say that he shouldn't be out there getting dominated every week like he has been. He should be playing behind a veteran and getting snaps at the nickel.

    Earl Mitchell - No worse than any of our other tomato cans back there. Depth and special teams guy at best right now but he's a rookie so possible upside? It could happen.

    Daryl Sharpton - Another rookie so he gets the rookie pass like all of them. Could be Diles, could be Diles with a better motor. Neither one really excites me though.

    Sherrick McMannis - Rookie DB who I can't get upset at yet. Give him a year or two and if he stinks like all the rest of them have other than Quin then there'll be time enough to complain about him then.
     
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