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bah007 said:
Antoine looked plenty athletic to me today.
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Cason could be a steal at #18. I like him more and more as time goes by. He's very experienced, he played for a great defensive coordinator, and now he has answered the #1 question about his game: his speed.

You've got guys like Jenkins, Talib, Cromartie, and McKelvin that are catching peoples eyes right now, and that could push Cason down the boards. I think he fits perfectly with what we do here.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Tony won't be around in the 4th and its unlikely he will be there in the 3rd to be honest. What could help us is that its a deep draft for OL.
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My fear exactly. You and Kubes have said deep draft for Oline but I'm worried about LT not guard. Who is available in 4th? I do not know much about Barton, King Dunlop or Zuttah who projects to guard.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Cason could be a steal at #18. I like him more and more as time goes by. He's very experienced, he played for a great defensive coordinator, and now he has answered the #1 question about his game: his speed.

You've got guys like Jenkins, Talib, Cromartie, and McKelvin that are catching peoples eyes right now, and that could push Cason down the boards. I think he fits perfectly with what we do here.
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I agree 100% Guy was borderline #1 CB in last years draft and has consistently been pushed down as other CB's have flashed great potential. Guy has been a solid starter for 4 years in a pass happy league and done extremely well. Biggest and almost only concern is his top end speed- he somewhat answered that with a 4.5/sub 4.5 forty.

I've been very high on Cason even a proponent of his selection at #18 for us for a while now. Many say he's a 2nd round talent with some mocks having him go #62 overall to the Pats in the 2nd round. That's quite a difference there from Mid-1st round talent to Mid-to-Late 2nd Round.

Guy has everything you ask for in a cornerback. He will be able to come in and compete right away better than just about any other CB in the draft. Some other players may have a bit more upside based on their measurables but I see Cason as a Demeco kind of player. Could be a guy that slips to the top of the 2nd round and a team gets a bonafide stud.

I like him at #18 and maybe a RB in the 3rd round if not OL. I really thought Tashard Choice was going to surprise people at the combine and was severely mistaken. Other guys I/We like Forte looks like he solidified himself as a 2nd rounder or at least won't make it to our pick in the 3rd. Kevin Smith could be a good RB in the 3rd?
 
PHAROAH said:
Guys the tape doesn't lie on Talib and the workouts showed that he will get beat in man coverage because his hips were tight. I have a question for everyone who wants talib how many times did you see him in man coverage on film? The jayhawks played a lot of Zone coverages and the texans like to play in man coverage so he isn't a good fit IMO for what the texans want in a cornerback in the 1st round. I think that the best fit will be Leodis Mckelvin or D. Rogers-Cromartie.
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How are you going to tell me what my team ran? You are lucky I've been in class with no internet so I couldn't get on you about this before now. We ran zone blitzes, but if you actually look at the film, Talib was on an island. Talib played man, and once we established a #2 CB, we ran almost exclusive man coverage. Safties would help over top. It is why we were able to have a top 10 defense. Who the effing hell do you think you are to tell me anything about a team and guy that I watched every game, every play for the past two years. Also, Talib led the nation in pass break ups in 06-07. This is a public forum, so I will refrain a lot, but you need to watch what you say about things you know little to nothing about.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
How are you going to tell me what my team ran? You are lucky I've been in class with no internet so I couldn't get on you about this before now. We ran zone blitzes, but if you actually look at the film, Talib was on an island. Talib played man, and once we established a #2 CB, we ran almost exclusive man coverage. Safties would help over top. It is why we were able to have a top 10 defense. Who the effing hell do you think you are to tell me anything about a team and guy that I watched every game, every play for the past two years. Also, Talib led the nation in pass break ups in 06-07. This is a public forum, so I will refrain a lot, but you need to watch what you say about things you know little to nothing about.
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YTF, The Texans do not have safeties to help over the top. Do you think Talib would fit here?
 
YoungTexanFan said:
How are you going to tell me what my team ran? You are lucky I've been in class with no internet so I couldn't get on you about this before now. We ran zone blitzes, but if you actually look at the film, Talib was on an island. Talib played man, and once we established a #2 CB, we ran almost exclusive man coverage. Safties would help over top. It is why we were able to have a top 10 defense. Who the effing hell do you think you are to tell me anything about a team and guy that I watched every game, every play for the past two years. Also, Talib led the nation in pass break ups in 06-07. This is a public forum, so I will refrain a lot, but you need to watch what you say about things you know little to nothing about.
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YTF, everybody here knows you love KU.

Anything you have to say about a KU player I'm gonna listen to a lot more than what another poster says.

But you're going off the deep end here. You can tell us what you think without getting so defensive about it.

Everyone on this board has a right to their opinion, even if they are flat-out wrong.
 
badboy said:
YTF, The Texans do not have safeties to help over the top. Do you think Talib would fit here?
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I think he is a good fit for a system run by Rhodes. He is very aggressive in the first 5 yards and can play bump and run. What Paroah is using as his example and only example for Talib not being a great pick is Jordy Nelson beating him deep one time. That is foolish, and why I don't feel his evaluations hold any value, even on other non-KU players. He threw out some "facts", such as that KU ran a strictly zone scheme, when we did not at all. Sure, we run some zone, as does every team, but we were mostly a man coverage team, especially Talib. Mangino trusted Talib on an island. It worked all year. Paroah, if you want to use 1 play of Talib being beat, which of course will never happen again nor will it or has it happened to any other CB before, why don't you reference any of the INTS or Pass Break Ups? How about a 104 INT return where he beat everyone else on the field? How about loose hips and great closing burst on the INT for a TD against VT in the orange bowl. How about Talib showing off his vertical in the endzone as he breaks up another pass and seals the win for KU? How about any of that? Why dont you look at the actual footage instead of making assumptions that I will call you on every time.
 
bah007 said:
YTF, everybody here knows you love KU.

Anything you have to say about a KU player I'm gonna listen to a lot more than what another poster says.

But you're going off the deep end here. You can tell us what you think without getting so defensive about it.

Everyone on this board has a right to their opinion, even if they are flat-out wrong.
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This is true. I will be more warry of this, and I'm not strictly on the Talib at 18 wagon. He would be a great pick, as would Cromartie and a few others. I'm not tying myself to a wagon just yet, but I will call out another poster who is talking nonsense about my school.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
This is true. I will be more warry of this, and I'm not strictly on the Talib at 18 wagon. He would be a great pick, as would Cromartie and a few others. I'm not tying myself to a wagon just yet, but I will call out another poster who is talking nonsense about my school.
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I too will call out anyone talking about my school. However, I went to three different junior colleges and so long ago.... None of them had a football team but Alvin JC had a pretty good nursing school.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I agree 100% Guy was borderline #1 CB in last years draft and has consistently been pushed down as other CB's have flashed great potential. Guy has been a solid starter for 4 years in a pass happy league and done extremely well. Biggest and almost only concern is his top end speed- he somewhat answered that with a 4.5/sub 4.5 forty.

I've been very high on Cason even a proponent of his selection at #18 for us for a while now. Many say he's a 2nd round talent with some mocks having him go #62 overall to the Pats in the 2nd round. That's quite a difference there from Mid-1st round talent to Mid-to-Late 2nd Round.

Guy has everything you ask for in a cornerback. He will be able to come in and compete right away better than just about any other CB in the draft. Some other players may have a bit more upside based on their measurables but I see Cason as a Demeco kind of player. Could be a guy that slips to the top of the 2nd round and a team gets a bonafide stud.

I like him at #18 and maybe a RB in the 3rd round if not OL. I really thought Tashard Choice was going to surprise people at the combine and was severely mistaken. Other guys I/We like Forte looks like he solidified himself as a 2nd rounder or at least won't make it to our pick in the 3rd. Kevin Smith could be a good RB in the 3rd?
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Yep Ole Miss have been saying that for a while now about Cason. Reminds me exactly of Leon Hall last year getting nit-picked to death. Some Corners flashed nice pre combine numbers and pro days but when it came down to it on draft day teams were looking at Leons career. Cinci Chose him and all the guy did was tie the league lead for INTs by rookies last year with 5... that's only starting like 12 games btw.

While a guy who was jumping up a lot of people's boards Chris Houston didn't fare nearly so well.
 
badboy said:
I too will call out anyone talking about my school. However, I went to three different junior colleges and so long ago.... None of them had a football team but Alvin JC had a pretty good nursing school.
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Yes, but are there any good CB's in that nursing school?
 
My players from the 4th rd. on .

Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis RB
Donald Thomas OL
Marcus Howard DE/OLB
Terrence Wheatley CB
Chad Simpson RB
Derek Fine TE/HB
 
One player I've been speaking about for a while has put himself on the casual fans radar. Heath Benidict from Newberry has put his name firmly on the map. I think he ends up as a second round selection. I have him as my #2 OG. I will be putting out my revised big board within the next few days. Alberts is now my #1 OG, with Benidict coming in at #2.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
One player I've been speaking about for a while has put himself on the casual fans radar. Heath Benidict from Newberry has put his name firmly on the map. I think he ends up as a second round selection. I have him as my #2 OG. I will be putting out my revised big board within the next few days. Alberts is now my #1 OG, with Benidict coming in at #2.
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I've been reading about Benedict since you'd mentioned him a while back. Thought he sounded like a late round steal to me but he's gotten some great press lately if I'm not mistaken. He sounds like he could be a great fit on our OL.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
How about any of that? Why dont you look at the actual footage instead of making assumptions that I will call you on every time.
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The reports on Talib today are everyone repeating what future HOFer Deion Sanders and former NFL player Mike Mayock had to say about him. They showed the tapes, and they commented that the tape they had watched on him showed him to be inconsistent. The catch you poo poo off, was called a big red flag by them. The two of them and Rod Woodson all felt he was a talent but they questioned his commitment and motor.

You need to b!tch to the real experts.

And yes I will admit I was proven wrong by his time. He ran better then I expected. And when I am wrong I admit it.

He is still a 1st rounder, the question is where in the 1st?
 
painekiller said:
The reports on Talib today are everyone repeating what future HOFer Deion Sanders and former NFL player Mike Mayock had to say about him. They showed the tapes, and they commented that the tape they had watched on him showed him to be inconsistent. The catch you poo poo off, was called a big red flag by them. The two of them and Rod Woodson all felt he was a talent but they questioned his commitment and motor.

You need to b!tch to the real experts.

And yes I will admit I was proven wrong by his time. He ran better then I expected. And when I am wrong I admit it.

He is still a 1st rounder, the question is where in the 1st?
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I'm not really sure where he will go to be honest. It all depends on team needs. He probably won't go as high as #7 to the Pats need. He could go mid first around our pick all the way to late first with the Colts.
 
What I like about the current FO and staff is that they have not looked and reached for projects, they have looked for folks in the first three rounds that can come in and play right away.

Cromartie is carrying the "project" moniker based on his school and lack of girth. He is a player in my opinion and will have no problem taking him, as girth will come (only talking about 5-10 lbs of muscle to put on) and you cannot teach his athleticism, it is in the genes.

Williams would be solid as would Mendenhall, Stewart, Talib, McKelvin and Jenkins. We are positioned to take a need play maker in a BPA scenario without breaking the bank.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
If it happened this way ... we would have a choice between Williams , Cromartie , and Stewart ... not bad , maybe trade back .
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Agree that would be sweet. I'm ok with the right trade but do not want to miss on a sure starter like these three to get a "maybe" in 2nd, 3rd etc round. I'm still leaning towards Stewart at 18 as a "franchise type"player among these three. Like McClain said this morning, CB is the glaring need.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
What I like about the current FO and staff is that they have not looked and reached for projects, they have looked for folks in the first three rounds that can come in and play right away.

Cromartie is carrying the "project" moniker based on his school and lack of girth. He is a player in my opinion and will have no problem taking him, as girth will come (only talking about 5-10 lbs of muscle to put on) and you cannot teach his athleticism, it is in the genes.

Williams would be solid as would Mendenhall, Stewart, Talib, McKelvin and Jenkins. We are positioned to take a need play maker in a BPA scenario without breaking the bank.
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Do you see a possible trade scenario with the 5 or 6 teams below us that would allow to get one of our need positions and get another pick? I am concerned that those teams could not make a trade up and still get a need player. Even Dallas could get Felix Jones and a WR with their two picks.
 
badboy said:
Agree that would be sweet. I'm ok with the right trade but do not want to miss on a sure starter like these three to get a "maybe" in 2nd, 3rd etc round. I'm still leaning towards Stewart at 18 as a "franchise type"player among these three. Like McClain said this morning, CB is the glaring need.
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If the board were like this , I'd tell the Eagles that Atlanta really wants Cromartie . If You give us a 3rd we'll let you move up and take him or we'll take Atlanta's deal .
 
badboy said:
Do you see a possible trade scenario with the 5 or 6 teams below us that would allow to get one of our need positions and get another pick? I am concerned that those teams could not make a trade up and still get a need player. Even Dallas could get Felix Jones and a WR with their two picks.
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At this moment I would not take or make any calls until draft day for a trade down. We need to leverage our position, based on our needs, which is shaping up nicely. Depending how everything falls we will only help ourselves staying mum until the dominoes start falling on draft day in my opinion.

Obviously the Free Agency window will change some perspective on the whole picture as other teams address needs and lose players as well.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
At this moment I would not take or make any calls until draft day for a trade down. We need to leverage our position, based on our needs, which is shaping up nicely. Depending how everything falls we will only help ourselves staying mum until the dominoes start falling on draft day in my opinion.

Obviously the Free Agency window will change some perspective on the whole picture as other teams address needs and lose players as well.
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KT ... are you for a CB , OT , or RB .

I think CB unless an OT , RB rates much better . I think there will be some good RBs in the 4-7 range . There will also be some good zone OL there to .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
KT ... are you for a CB , OT , or RB .

I think CB unless an OT , RB rates much better . I think there will be some good RBs in the 4-7 range . There will also be some good zone OL there to .
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I have been on the CB/FS line for the last two years. But I recognize that we have a need at C and LT as well. I have always felt that a RB can be found to get you through a year, but Kubiak's passing scheme would be heightened by a punishing RB. Dunta's injury hurts and we have no solution at the moment in a secondary that improved, but is still a weakness over a 16 game season.

However, if I could have it my way I would take Williams in the 1st, Patrick Lee in the 3rd and hope that a RB falls to the 4th (Rice, Forte, Slaton, Hart).
 
badboy said:
Do you see a possible trade scenario with the 5 or 6 teams below us that would allow to get one of our need positions and get another pick? I am concerned that those teams could not make a trade up and still get a need player. Even Dallas could get Felix Jones and a WR with their two picks.
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Earl that trade back might be viable especially if we show a lot of interest in Cromartie like we should.

The Seahawks might be another interesting trade back partner if Stewart or Mendenhall is there. Saw rumors Alexander (whom I've just never really been overly impressed with) is borderline being cut.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I have been on the CB/FS line for the last two years. But I recognize that we have a need at C and LT as well. I have always felt that a RB can be found to get you through a year, but Kubiak's passing scheme would be heightened by a punishing RB. Dunta's injury hurts and we have no solution at the moment in a secondary that improved, but is still a weakness over a 16 game season.

However, if I could have it my way I would take Williams in the 1st, Patrick Lee in the 3rd and hope that a RB falls to the 4th (Rice, Forte, Slaton, Hart).
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You think a Slaton type back (light but fast) would do well in the ZBS? If that scenario played out, he would not be the feature back, correct?
 
badboy said:
You think a Slaton type back (light but fast) would do well in the ZBS? If that scenario played out, he would not be the feature back, correct?
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The NFL flavor of the day is the two back system. Kubiak, believed it in at Denver and has used it here. If Slaton fell to the fourth he would be a terrific complement to a bruiser.
 
Goldensilence said:
Earl that trade back might be viable especially if we show a lot of interest in Cromartie like we should.

The Seahawks might be another interesting trade back partner if Stewart or Mendenhall is there. Saw rumors Alexander (whom I've just never really been overly impressed with) is borderline being cut.
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The way I look at possible trading partners for US specifically is looking at the team needs and the prospects teams will most likely target that are directly behind us. The seahawks may try to jump us and trade with Minnesota if they think we're really targeting 'their' RB- Minnesota may think they can trade down and still get a WR, CB, DE etc. Minn obviously doesn't need a RB so they would have leverage- saying trade with us, get Stewart or else the Texans will take him (this is of course if Minn gets a good enough deal to trade down).

So I would look at the teams right behind us- Eagles, Bucs, Redskins, Cowboys, Steelers, Titans... One area I could see them going for is Wide Receiver but there should be some others. There could be a team targeting a guy like Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, or Limas Sweed that would want to jump these teams and get him at #18 if they think he warrants that pick and won't be available at their pick.

But then you also have to look at which team would have that specific need in order to jump up. I would rule out teams like Miami and Atlanta even though they have the fire power (extra draft picks- 2nd round) to trade up- they are in rebuilding modes and most likely would trade down if anything.

Its ver very tricky.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
The way I look at possible trading partners for US specifically is looking at the team needs and the prospects teams will most likely target that are directly behind us. The seahawks may try to jump us and trade with Minnesota if they think we're really targeting 'their' RB- Minnesota may think they can trade down and still get a WR, CB, DE etc. Minn obviously doesn't need a RB so they would have leverage- saying trade with us, get Stewart or else the Texans will take him (this is of course if Minn gets a good enough deal to trade down).

So I would look at the teams right behind us- Eagles, Bucs, Redskins, Cowboys, Steelers, Titans... One area I could see them going for is Wide Receiver but there should be some others. There could be a team targeting a guy like Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, or Limas Sweed that would want to jump these teams and get him at #18 if they think he warrants that pick and won't be available at their pick.

But then you also have to look at which team would have that specific need in order to jump up. I would rule out teams like Miami and Atlanta even though they have the fire power (extra draft picks- 2nd round) to trade up- they are in rebuilding modes and most likely would trade down if anything.

Its ver very tricky.
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Good points again Ole Miss. One thing I'd point to Seattle and Minnesota is a bit of bad blood between the two organizations after the Hutchinson deal(poison pill clauses).

I think you could be dead on about WR being the linch-pin. With the exception of the 'skin one of those teams might be willing to jump ahead of the others to land Hardy or Kelley.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
The NFL flavor of the day is the two back system. Kubiak, believed it in at Denver and has used it here. If Slaton fell to the fourth he would be a terrific complement to a bruiser.
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Who would be the bruiser? You have to go with a risky Green or re-sign Dayne or I guess both to go with Slaton? I am not against this type duo as I in another thread offered a LT and Jamaal Charles in round two with Atlant's picks. Or Charles and Forte.
 
badboy said:
Who would be the bruiser? You have to go with a risky Green or re-sign Dayne or I guess both to go with Slaton? I am not against this type duo as I in another thread offered a LT and Jamaal Charles in round two with Atlant's picks. Or Charles and Forte.
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I could see us going with Green, Dayne, Slaton, Taylor and Walker at camp. Four will make the team in my opinion. Gibbs and Rhodes will get the bulk of the bodies in camp this year I believe.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I could see us going with Green, Dayne, Slaton, Taylor and Walker at camp. Four will make the team in my opinion. Gibbs and Rhodes will get the bulk of the bodies in camp this year I believe.
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I agree with this. The offensive line needs to be built up and the secondary does as well. They've brought in to respected guys to get that job done. I know McNair, Smith, Kubiak, and Gibbs all know the importance of building a great offensive line. The Texans are distributing their want in building through the trenches and I think they'll continue to do so. They have to find the right guys to fit the scheme and sometimes it just takes weeding out a lot of players.

New Orleans traded up with us last year to select Antonio Pittman, RB, Ohio St. in the 4th round. We selected CB Fred Bennett and OL Brandon Frye with those selections. Pittman then got released from N.O. and signed with St. Louis??? Not sure if he's still with that team or not though.

--Point I'm trying to make is if we go into camp with Green, Dayne, Walker, Taylor, and Slaton What would the chances be that Slaton is actually the one that gets cut??? If that were to happen, we'd have just wasted our 3rd or 4th round pick. You could argue that that's the chance we take with any pick, I just think a WR or a RB would be the most likely to lose their job in the 1st year or before the season.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
...You could argue that that's the chance we take with any pick, I just think a WR or a RB would be the most likely to lose their job in the 1st year or before the season.
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Well, I would argue that. Because I don't see any statistical difference between RBs & WRs being cut before other positions. Brandon Frye was cut and placed on the practice squad at the beginning of the season. That doesn't mean that Tackles are more likely to be cut than other positions.

If a drafted RB can't beat out any of the motley crew the Texans sport, then he was just a bad draft pick. I think you could place the top 15 RBs in this draft names in a hat, and anyone you pull out would make this team.
 
Lucky said:
Well, I would argue that. Because I don't see any statistical difference between RBs & WRs being cut before other positions. Brandon Frye was cut and placed on the practice squad at the beginning of the season. That doesn't mean that Tackles are more likely to be cut than other positions.

If a drafted RB can't beat out any of the motley crew the Texans sport, then he was just a bad draft pick. I think you could place the top 15 RBs in this draft names in a hat, and anyone you pull out would make this team.
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I was specifying it to the Texans. At wide out we have Andre Johnson, Andre Davis (hopefully), Jacoby Jones, Kevin Walter. There's 4 guys that are staying on the team for sure (if Davis likes us). I don't see us keeping any more than 5 WR's... Mathis could be cut, we have David Anderson- so might be a spot for 1 other WR if we decide to Draft one in the 3rd/4th or on to probably be our #4 or #5 WR when we have other Needs.

As far as Running Back goes- chalk up the top 10 RB's being gone by the time we pick in the 3rd round, I would almost..ALMOST guarantee that. If we take say a CB in the 1st and a OL in the 3rd that leaves us with a 4th round RB. So what are the chances of the top 15 RB's being gone by the time we pick in the 4th round? I have no idea.. 50/50?? just guessing, but then we're looking at guys that we as fans REALLY aren't all that excited about. Of course they've got to have some talent b/c if Kubiak/Smith would spend a pick on them I'd trust their judment- Walker (undrafted) performed admirably, imo ; Taylor (undrafted) performed good in the 1 game he got a shot at but has been injured. I would personally pray that the new Rook would beat out both of them but would his effectiveness be THAT much greater than if we were to spend it at another position? That I can't answer.

So yes I will restate what I said that 'it could be said about any position' but what I was implying is that in the areas or WR and RB- a later round pick would have a harder time sticking on the TEXANS roster than a later round pick at another position, in my opinion. Keep in mind Gibbs will be looking at offensive lineman that may not start right away but will be here for grooming purposes, and depth if nothing else. Half our picks this year could go to OL. Texans have little to no history to do any 'research' on this, + only 2 years with Kubiak/Smith running the show, and only 1 year of history with the current RB's that are on the roster... so I don't think it's quite as simple as you were implying.
 
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