Clowney trade discussion

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by badboy, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Raiders have $76 million cap 2019..not sure what you are talking about? Plus they inherit 2 years 19 and 2020 if we tag then trade him. So..they have no reason to guarantee anything. Thirdly, I never said Raiders have to give up two firsts. I gave two option the mid range 1st from Dallas or the end of 1st from Bears+ another later round selection. A trade does not have to be the "tag" price. Anyone getting JD can tag for next two seasons.
     
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  2. Shishkabob

    Shishkabob Hall of Fame

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    Raiders have $76 million in cap space yes, but do you know where that money comes from? The owners pocket, the NFL doesn't give every team $150 million each year and says here go spend it, they just tell the owners how much of their money they can give to their team. So the rumors of Davis being cash poor right now makes a lot of sense on why they couldn't extend Mack, and why they wouldn't want to pay close to the same for someone like Clowney. Next say we tag Clowney to try and trade him like you want to suggest we do, the only way that trade is going down is if the other team is able to extend him. Clowney can easily block the trade by a. just not signing the tag, or b. announcing that he is holding out until he gets a long term deal. Just like the Bears with Mack and agreed upon deal would have to be in place for any team to wan to trade for him. If you are going to trade a first round pick and then some for a player you are going to want to sign the player long term. Why give up players that can be team controlled for 4-5 years for a guy who very well could hold out on the tag because he himself wants a long term deal? There is just no logic there.
     
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  3. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    My point was that Oakland/Vegas doesn't want to pay an experienced, top flight, and very pricey pass rusher like Clowney when the upcoming draft is supposed to be full of defensive studs.

    Edit:
    Shishkabob explained it better than I.
     
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  4. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Ok not personal but just info: there are no facts to prove Raiders cash poor although decisions have been bad until recently. Following is from various sources but will use mostly Forbes.

    Team worth as of Sept 25, 2018 by Mick Akers & supported by Forbes for 2017 year was two billion 420 million and named by Forbes as #34 of top 50 most valuable teams in all sports with an increase of 47% since 2016 (when plans to move to Vegas initiated). That can get a pretty quick cash loan if needed. Owner Davis personal worth $500 million.

    Las Vegas cost of stadium $1.800 billion. $750m public money, $600 m loan by Bank of America and $200 m loan from NFL. PSLs expect to generate apprx $250. Stadium naming rights expected to be apprx $20 m per year for 20-25 years. Advertising from sponsors expected to be immense due to team bringing 65000 fans as possible customers to gambling that other NFL venues do not offer. This should raise ad rates for other more main stream sponsors like beer, soft drink, auto industry, airlines (Southwest has been mentioned as strong contender for naming rights) etc. per Alan Snel LVSportsBiz.com
    Now that's pretty sweet.

    Mack trade= Bears got Mack & 2020 second round and a conditional fifth.
    Raiders got 2019 first and a sixth plus 2020 first and a third.

    One day after 2017 NFL player of year Aaron Donald became highest D player 6 year $135m $87 guaranteed
    A lessor defensive (though very good) Mack beat that with six year $141 m $90 m. There was tremendous discussion that Donald was not worth the elite QB money he got; Mack even more so. I am not debating worthiness of either player for their deals.

    Mack was a 3 year probowler and Clowney is looking good for 3rd consecutive nomination despite "health". Clowney could/should be worth and arguably somewhat less trade offer but if not I'm cool with tagging him as I've said. A deal of say a mixture of Mack's would be 2019 first and 2019 third.
     
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  5. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    Isn't $500M pretty low for a NFL owner (even without moving the franchise to a new state)?
     
  6. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    yes Raiders have previously been horrible at decisions budgeting, FA and drafting. I'm surprised McKenzie has lasted since 2012. Jon Gruden's contract is another example IMO. I'm hopeful between the two, Texans can get one more move favoring Houston. I used to think Cleveland was our best buddy but I'm willing to share that with Raiders. It would seem to be impossible to not get richer in NFL but there are the usual "ten percenters".
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  7. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    hard to trade Clowney's production this season with Watt on field. Sure would like another first and a later round pick.
     
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  8. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist

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    I don't think its fair compensation for a pro bowl edge rusher / run defender …. No.

    You almost never get fair value in return for a player like Clowney …. If I couldn't work out an extension , I'd just tag him and may do the same the following year. I'd rather have the best years he has to offer than a couple random prospects.

    Honestly I think they can work something out contract wise … the franchise tag numbers were between 12-14m I believe , he's better off taking 4/50-60 than 1/14 and that's not breaking the bank for a quality player.
     
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  9. OptimisticTexan

    OptimisticTexan Hall of Fame

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    I'd differ with you on this issue. Clowney is a "health issue" timebomb which could wind up being in the same vein as Cushing. Tagging him twice is going to get costly and giving him a long-term deal could be both costly and risky.

    The draft is deep in defensive talent and the Texans could land a Clowney replacement that reduces the cap hit back to a rookie contract.

    As we have all witnessed or refused to witness, the Texans have more holes than originally thought. They need cap space, picks, a couple of successful drafts and an OC, DC and OL Coach to really begin the process of building a long term winner in short order.
     
  10. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Two questions:
    1) Which round will you use to replace Clowney - who is still a 1st rd talent. Maybe not #1 overall, but saaay a #23? I thought our rd 1/2 picks would be used to beef up the O-line. This, too, is part of the replacement cost, not just the rookie cap hit.

    2) Which AFC foe (because you know that's how our luck runs) would you like to see add a pissed off Clowney to their defense?

    I'm with Corrosion. Unless/until I hear good answers to those questions I'd pay the rental for at least next year, maybe two.
     


  11. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    Any suggestions?
     
  12. OptimisticTexan

    OptimisticTexan Hall of Fame

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    I'm glad you asked....check out 3-4 DE, Corbin Kaufusi, BYU (6-8 @ 280 lbs). He had a good season with BYU but suffered a foot injury that was originally designated as season ending. I think he suited up for the final game and decided to have surgery instead of playing in their Bowl Game. He could be a solid RD5 pick if he slides that far down the draft. I'd be really interested in his development as he gains his NFL strength.
     
  13. Mollywhopper

    Mollywhopper Facilitator

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    I'm afraid we may be working off of really rather different definitions of 'replacement' here..
     

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