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Carr's latest excuses?
- Thread starter the wonger need food
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Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
I agree. But after "Absolutely" you will see - "as long as we renegotiate his contract and the expectations are set that the job is not his next year. We need to see how David holds up against professional competition for the benefit of the team and its subsequent direction."
That would be the type of answer a no poop guy like McNair would respect.
Just in case that one knows on this board - Carr is the highest paid player on this team. How is the return on investment to date?
eriadoc
Texan-American
After 9 pages, this thread has gone almost nowhere, so I figured I'd add more junk to the junk pile 
It is an absolute farce that after this long, we still don't know what we have in David Carr. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's still true. Regardless what happens with David Carr, this franchise has to take a large portion of the blame for his early development, or lack thereof. His pass protection has been sorry for almost all of his tenure here. The rare string of games where it's been adequate, he's played pretty well for a young QB. He's never been given a team like the Steelers gave Roethlisberger, he's never been given a team like the Giants gvave Eli, or even the Colts gave Manning. The team has not improved in the offensive line, like Aikman's team did. If anything, this O-line has regressed, been shuffled around, and been so totally pathetic as to be the brunt of jokes on a national level.
I may be categorized as a Carr apologist; I don't know. The truth is, he hasn't been given a fair shot. 50 starts? You could give Manning, Brady, Montana, Unitas ... doesn't matter ... 50 starts behind this line with this offense as it has been for 50 starts and none of them would have done significantly better. So my real point that I continue to try and make is --
Instead of focusing on Carr (the symptom), how about we focus on fixing the root of the problem (the line, probably even moreso the coaching)? Instead of talking about drafting Leinart or VYoung or Reggie McNeil or some QB that can come in and compensate for our crappy line -- How about we just create an O-line that ANY quarterback can have a sufficient degree of success behind? Most other NFL teams manage to do so with people we've never even heard of - why can't we?
Our QB isn't the problem, folks. He may not be the answer, but he's surely not the problem.
It is an absolute farce that after this long, we still don't know what we have in David Carr. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's still true. Regardless what happens with David Carr, this franchise has to take a large portion of the blame for his early development, or lack thereof. His pass protection has been sorry for almost all of his tenure here. The rare string of games where it's been adequate, he's played pretty well for a young QB. He's never been given a team like the Steelers gave Roethlisberger, he's never been given a team like the Giants gvave Eli, or even the Colts gave Manning. The team has not improved in the offensive line, like Aikman's team did. If anything, this O-line has regressed, been shuffled around, and been so totally pathetic as to be the brunt of jokes on a national level.
I may be categorized as a Carr apologist; I don't know. The truth is, he hasn't been given a fair shot. 50 starts? You could give Manning, Brady, Montana, Unitas ... doesn't matter ... 50 starts behind this line with this offense as it has been for 50 starts and none of them would have done significantly better. So my real point that I continue to try and make is --
Instead of focusing on Carr (the symptom), how about we focus on fixing the root of the problem (the line, probably even moreso the coaching)? Instead of talking about drafting Leinart or VYoung or Reggie McNeil or some QB that can come in and compensate for our crappy line -- How about we just create an O-line that ANY quarterback can have a sufficient degree of success behind? Most other NFL teams manage to do so with people we've never even heard of - why can't we?
Our QB isn't the problem, folks. He may not be the answer, but he's surely not the problem.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
eriadoc said:After 9 pages, this thread has gone almost nowhere, so I figured I'd add more junk to the junk pile
It is an absolute farce that after this long, we still don't know what we have in David Carr. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, it's still true. Regardless what happens with David Carr, this franchise has to take a large portion of the blame for his early development, or lack thereof. His pass protection has been sorry for almost all of his tenure here. The rare string of games where it's been adequate, he's played pretty well for a young QB. He's never been given a team like the Steelers gave Roethlisberger, he's never been given a team like the Giants gvave Eli, or even the Colts gave Manning. The team has not improved in the offensive line, like Aikman's team did. If anything, this O-line has regressed, been shuffled around, and been so totally pathetic as to be the brunt of jokes on a national level.
I may be categorized as a Carr apologist; I don't know. The truth is, he hasn't been given a fair shot. 50 starts? You could give Manning, Brady, Montana, Unitas ... doesn't matter ... 50 starts behind this line with this offense as it has been for 50 starts and none of them would have done significantly better. So my real point that I continue to try and make is --
Instead of focusing on Carr (the symptom), how about we focus on fixing the root of the problem (the line, probably even moreso the coaching)? Instead of talking about drafting Leinart or VYoung or Reggie McNeil or some QB that can come in and compensate for our crappy line -- How about we just create an O-line that ANY quarterback can have a sufficient degree of success behind? Most other NFL teams manage to do so with people we've never even heard of - why can't we?
Our QB isn't the problem, folks. He may not be the answer, but he's surely not the problem.
You have hit it on the head. Dump Carr's current contract and bring in an OLine.
So Coach Kaiser, you're saying that as long as Carr grabs a clipboard & takes a pay cut, you'd have no problem with David on the team?Kaiser Toro said:
Wrong answer. But as parting gifts we have this Houston Texans combination bottle opener/keychain & an autographed copy of Dom Caper's new book, "Our chief weapon is execution!... Execution and turnover ratio...Our two weapons are turnover ratio and execution... and ruthless efficiency! Our three weapons are execution, and turnover ratio, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope!"
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:
Why are you hatin' on Coach Capers. You should be enjoying our first win.
TexHorns
Waterboy
Bubbajwp said:
You took the words right out of my mouth. This is just a way for people to avoid back-pedaling. Being over critical does not really give any insight to real solutions. There is a difference between fair critique and dogmatism. It is easy to hone in on one perspective and not look at the whole picture. The problems on this team are integrated and will take that approach to solve them. We already know that the core of this team is capable of producing wins, it happened last year, so we need to address the problems of what has changed and not changed between last years progress and this years downfalls.
Here's a few off the top of my head in no particular order:
Run Defense
Bradford is worse
Bad coverage opposite D-Rob
AJ has been hurt but he still dropped some important passes. I'm not too worried about him though.
Bad pass protection (should have been addressed this year)
TE
Hollings
This is strictly the view of TexHorns and does not necessarily reflect the views of any sane person
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
NFLforher said:
Chance to succed is synonymous with opportunty. He has 50+ starts to show improvement in may different facets of the game. Other than taking off and running with the ball I have seen no tangible or intangible improvement. That does not mean it can materialize. I, like many i would imagine, feel we should have seen more by now.
I do realize he has not had the best protection or weapons, but if you look at each position and attach a productivity per head measurement we are not getting the ROI from the QB position.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Kaiser Toro said:
I agree with you that the Texans need more return from their investment, but the above just doesn't seem fair at all. You can say chance to succeed is synonymous with opportunity but it begs the question whether he has had either. Prior to this year, which has to be regarded as a full team melt-down, he had shown progress each year across basically every statistical measure. In addition, he was showing improvement in intangibles such as not running out of bounds behind the LOS. After looking at each play in the past three games IMO there were only 1 or 2 plays where he demonstrated poor pocket awareness and a considerably more where he moved to assist the OL--that is an improvement from the past even if lost in the general team performance. Thru the 1st half of last season it looked like he was on the verge of a break-out year. Then something light-switched. Love to know what that was.
"Thru the 1st half of last season it looked like he was on the verge of a break-out year. Then something light-switched. Love to know what that was."
IMO, this scenario defines the demise/fall of the Texans under Capers. Until this point, though a little rocky, the team had a winning record and everything seemed headed in the right direction. Then, almost over night, the entire team went 'south' into the nose dive we are in now. What happened? It's more than the 'cover 2'---we became an entirely different team under Capers. No fire. No fight. No hanging in there and even winning against the best teams like we did the first 2 years. If I were McNair, I would want an answer.
IMO, this scenario defines the demise/fall of the Texans under Capers. Until this point, though a little rocky, the team had a winning record and everything seemed headed in the right direction. Then, almost over night, the entire team went 'south' into the nose dive we are in now. What happened? It's more than the 'cover 2'---we became an entirely different team under Capers. No fire. No fight. No hanging in there and even winning against the best teams like we did the first 2 years. If I were McNair, I would want an answer.
Honch Delgado
Waterboy
Carr's GQ spread comes out this month. Remember to pick it up ladies.
MightyTExan
It's go time!
Carr will never be anything above average until he is the team leader. Let's be real, he's getting sacked a lot because the OL does not want to play for him. What did Brees do after a suck 4-12 season? Called a team meeting and said "let's do this." Have we ever heard anything like that from Carr?
No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.
Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig. Kaiser either agrees that Carr is his QB, or he looks elsewhere for a job. I hear the Saskatewan Roughriders are looking for a new assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Bring a heavy coat, those Canadian summers are brutal.
Do you really want to see Tony Banks in at QB on this team, right now? What did Tony do to you to wish that upon him? If there's one guy on the Texans who doesn't want to see Carr pulled or go down, it's Tony Banks. Banks has zero mobility and would be a sitting duck (I could use a duck smilie here) for the rush the Texans line allows. Throw out the bootlegs & the rollouts, Banks can't run those plays. And if you don't think David Carr is an accurate passer, then Banks is certainly not your man. His completion percentage is about 3% lower, and he can't throw a pass on the move at all. The best way for Tony to help this team is by keeping a firm grasp on that clipboard.
Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig. Kaiser either agrees that Carr is his QB, or he looks elsewhere for a job. I hear the Saskatewan Roughriders are looking for a new assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Bring a heavy coat, those Canadian summers are brutal.
Do you really want to see Tony Banks in at QB on this team, right now? What did Tony do to you to wish that upon him? If there's one guy on the Texans who doesn't want to see Carr pulled or go down, it's Tony Banks. Banks has zero mobility and would be a sitting duck (I could use a duck smilie here) for the rush the Texans line allows. Throw out the bootlegs & the rollouts, Banks can't run those plays. And if you don't think David Carr is an accurate passer, then Banks is certainly not your man. His completion percentage is about 3% lower, and he can't throw a pass on the move at all. The best way for Tony to help this team is by keeping a firm grasp on that clipboard.
Dang TSIP, you had me going because next to defining the meaning of Life,tsip said:
my most urgent questions surround the mystery of what happened to the Texans ? But to say at some point last season the team went south doesn't answer the question of what parameter changed, or what was new or what factor was suddenly removed.
It wasn't Capers because he's been a constant, he's been here since the teams inception well before 2002 when they first strepped on the field, unless you want to argue it was the cumulative effect of his presence over those years ? But that's still not a definitive explanation of what factor(s) caused the Texans rapid and dramatic decline in on field performance ?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
If Bob McNair really operates like this (dictates to the new regime who the starting players are) he is a fool, a horrible Owner and a total embarrassment to his fan base. This problem with naming the "face of the Franchise" before he produces like a Franchise player is that if the guy you 'hope' lives up to his hype doesn't, you just become a mediocre franchise.....and that is what we are right now. Heck, mediocre is middle of the pack, that would be an improvment.Lucky said:No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.
Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
there is nothing embarrassing or horrible about Texans owner Bob McNair, he is a classy, approachable & successful buisness man who brought Pro Football back to Houston.
the real problem is the Franchise Player does not have enough support, the system created has fallen apart because of the football side of operations. who is the QB coach now that Palmer has been fired? are they qualified? I'll go out on a limb here and say there are probably better canidates available, but now is the time or place, for that we'll just have to suck it up and endure the pain until the off season before meaningfull changes can be made, no pain no gain
Vinny
shiny happy fan
It's tough to debate a topic when fans don't understand what was typed. Look up the definition of "if" sometime would ya'? That was a hypothetical that Lucky threw down, and I commented on it with another if.
Also, it's amazing how close you follow the team but have no clue to who the coaches are. Palmer was the OC, not the QB coach. Greg Roman has been our QB coach all year...before and after the Palmer firing.
Also, it's amazing how close you follow the team but have no clue to who the coaches are. Palmer was the OC, not the QB coach. Greg Roman has been our QB coach all year...before and after the Palmer firing.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Lucky said:No matter how we feel about Carr, we can still enjoy some Python.
Here's the hitch in Kaiser's plan as the Texans' new coach: Carr will already have his extension in his back pocket before Kaiser comes on board. If Kaiser tells McNair that a new QB needs to come in and challenge Carr, he won't get the gig. Kaiser either agrees that Carr is his QB, or he looks elsewhere for a job. I hear the Saskatewan Roughriders are looking for a new assistant to the assistant special teams coach. Bring a heavy coat, those Canadian summers are brutal.
Do you really want to see Tony Banks in at QB on this team, right now? What did Tony do to you to wish that upon him? If there's one guy on the Texans who doesn't want to see Carr pulled or go down, it's Tony Banks. Banks has zero mobility and would be a sitting duck (I could use a duck smilie here) for the rush the Texans line allows. Throw out the bootlegs & the rollouts, Banks can't run those plays. And if you don't think David Carr is an accurate passer, then Banks is certainly not you man. His completion percentage is about 3% lower, and he can't throw a pass on the move at all. The best way for Tony to help this team is by keeping a firm grasp on that clipboard.
Lucky I just do not think you read my posts and then you add your own spin and flavor on how you interpret my opinions. I can say without equivocation that I have never mentioned Benching David Carr for Tony Banks. My thing with Carr has always been his contract.
Take a look at my posts and I believe you will see consistency on this topic. Outside of DC's contract I am pretty optimistic expceptwhen it comes to our HC and GM, and I would say that stern eye wavers from time to time.
And I do believe that if MCNair needs to look for a new HC he will have to hire a big name and that coach will have the leverage in those negotiations. With so many positions open at the end of the season and Houston wil not tolerate a bad product for many more years.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
first, I don't think its neccessary to be calling out the owner in this situation, but I could wrong.
second, I thought that was Palmer's calling card that he had a track record of developing young QB's?
third, how come your not calling for Greg Romans head since he's been the "QB coach all year" thats pretty amazing to me.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
*sigh*beerlover said:
I'm not calling out the owner. I can't believe you don't grasp this. I will explain slowly.....Lucky threw out a hypothetical situation. I said that IF McNair operates like this it would be pathetic in my mind. Read that over and over...5 times perhaps.
Why should I call for the individual coaches heads when I am clearly calling for a new staff? If you put 2+2 together you will see that I am....but didn't bother to spell it out.
Geez people.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
OK then, I got it. sometimes I don't read thru the whole threads I just respond when there is a post that seems out of line, I should know better from you, can you forgive me
I don't have any problem with the Texans keeping a keen eye open for another QB to develop, as a matter of fact I would like to see a young strong arm physical body QB drafted this year like Grambling Eugene Bruce. its only a matter of time until Carr will be physically unable to play. But at least lets change the coaching and developmental phases of the organization.
Except when it came to your boy Jason Babin last year. You were one of those who passionately defended the coaches decision to start him as a rookie while many of us criticised that same decision to just "hand" him the position. Its no problem though, we're all guilty of a little inconsistancy from time to time (I bit my tongue before I said hypocrisy). I believe your support for Babin has moderated somewhat since then, just as my criticism has.Vinny said:
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I'm not inconsistent. If you notice I support all the players at first. I supported Cassserly at first...I supported Dom Capers at first. Heck, I supported David Carr at first. I will continue to support all of our team at first until I think they can't play or see otherwise. I will support our players and give the benefit of the doubt and will not judge them too early based on how I think the draft should have gone.nunusguy said:
I know you have not pushed for Banks at QB. I was responding to Honeymoon who has discussed both your post and his opinion of giving Banks a shot. I do read your posts, I promise. It was just a case of trying to put too much into one post before I had to go to work.Kaiser Toro said:
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