Carr=McNair

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by infantrycak, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    54,921
    Likes Received:
    2,605
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Let's hope Palmer isn't just feeling giddy:

    Link
     
  2. Tulip

    Tulip Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    38
    Now if we can get Palmer to actually make the calls that make great players, we'll be good. If I have to see AJ running a bunch of five yard outs (a la Greg Davis and Roy Williams) this season, I may have no hair left come December.
     
  3. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    I think the conservative nature of our team has more to do with Capers than Palmer.

    On Carr, year 3 is when guys like Pennington and McNair started to show they can dominate a game at times by themselves. I have my fingers crossed and look for big things. Very exciting year.
     
  4. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    347
    David Carr and Steve McNair's paths analagous? Their paths couldn't be more different. McNair entering his third year had started a grand total of 6 games. Sounds like Palmer needs to lay off the Jack Daniels.

    Pennington started zero games until his third year when he came in and dominated in his first season as a starter.
     
  5. TexasAggie

    TexasAggie Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Montana
    Man I never considered Carr the runner that McNair is. It must give Carr pause for thought for your coach to compare you to an elite QB. Hope Palmer has it right and this is the year we start to see it on the field in the games.
     
  6. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,314
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Houston/Austin
    All I ask from Carr is more TDs than INTs and a better completion rate (that might be a lot), if he does those 2 things he will be successful and wins will follow

    Carr can run, remember the Vick-esque run against the Falcons and that nasty shake on that Saints player?
     
  7. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    I didn't see where Palmer is saying they have the same on-field training in years one and two. I just see where he mentions that Carr has the look of a guy who will break out in his third year...or did you read something I didn't? Pennington may have had no snaps by his third year but he was no rookie. He had 3 NFL training camps by then.
     
  8. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    347
    Must have.

    This is what I read: "he's taking a similar path as Steve McNair, who was a young player with the Houston Oilers. And I think that's a great analogy."

    I don't see Carr and McNair "taking a similar path" in anything or see what McNair (or Pennington did for that matter) in their first two years as analagous to Carr's situation in any case other than they were/are all about the same age when they either started games or sat on the sideline watching. Carr has much more game experience at the same point in his career as either McNair or Pennington. I see Carr and Troy Aikman on the same path in their first two seasons in terms of production and experience and I can only hope that Carr stays on that path.

    Entering their third seasons Pennington had zero snaps as an NFL QB and Carr has what 1,500? That's even a more divergent path than McNair and Carr.
     


  9. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Well, if you want to split hairs, then quote the entire quote.
    He doesn't quite say if he thinks this or not, but merely saying that "a lot of people" are saying this but yes, I guess he also says he agrees with it.

    ...and not worth arguing over. (added this late)
     
  10. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    347
    I can comprehend english. Thanks.

    The only thing that's analagous might be IF Carr has his breakout in his third year.... but when one QB has something like 27 starts in two seasons and the other has 6 (and the other has 0) I can safely say they haven't been on the same path. If Carr is smart, he will find the path that McNair found in year three and follow it, but up until now their careers couldn't have been more different in their first two seasons.
     
  11. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    No one is insulting you aj. We are just talking about the article. I wish you would let this kind of stuff go.
     
  12. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    347
    Let what go? I wasn't insulted by anyone. Was I?
     
  13. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    21,847
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    ok, my fault.

    no problem.
     
  14. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,278
    Likes Received:
    1,473
    Now that is an excellent analogy. Aikman came into the league with an expansion like talent base surrounding him. In a matter of 3 seasons, the talent improved to the level of a playoff team. We know what happened after that. Does Carr have the type of talent around him that Aikman had in year 3? I don't know. Possibly. Seems like a lot of people, including Palmer, think this is the season Carr breaks out.

    Aikman's 1st 3 seasons
    1989 52.9% 1749 yards 9 TDs 18 INTs 55.7 QB Rat (11 games)
    1990 56.6% 2579 yards 11 TDs 18 INTs 66.6 QB Rat
    1991 65.3% 2754 yards 11 TDs 10 INTs 86.7 QB Rat (12 games)

    Carr's 1st 3 seasons
    2002 52.5% 2592 yards 9 TDs 15 INTs 62.8 QB Rat
    2003 56.6% 2013 yards 9 TDs 13 INTs 69.5 QB Rat (12 games)
    2004 ??????

    Don't be fooled by Aikman's TD total in '91, it was a breakout year. He led Dallas to some big wins and made the Pro Bowl.
     
  15. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    4,314
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    Houston/Austin
    Pro Bowl with 11 TDs? Thats like Keyshawn Johnson making the Pro Bowl with only 1 TD reception in '01.
     
  16. BornOrange

    BornOrange All Pro

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    15
    Aikman was in the Pro Bowl with only 11 TD's???

    I bet it was a weak year for NFC QB's, or a lot of them decided not to go to the Pro Bowl.
     
  17. wags

    wags Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    TX and FL
    Carr will have better numbers than Aikman did in his third year, if he stays healthy. When I look at Carr's TD-INT difference I always include his rushing TD's just to be completely fair to him. A touchdown is a touchdown to me. I think he has 2 and 3 respectively.
     
  18. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    54,921
    Likes Received:
    2,605
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    [Edit--ok quicksdraw magraw beat me. Anyway this set uncludes the yards per attempt as well]

    The Carr/Aikman comparison is interesting:

    Troy Aikman

    David Carr

    So if Carr is to progress as Aikman did it may not show up in a ton of TD's or yardage but will show up in a lot fewer INT's, a higher passing percentage and higher yards per attempt. Pre-injury last year, Carr's passing percentage was actually close to 60% and his ypa were at 7.5 so he was headed down that path--his INT rate was still unacceptable but the ratio was better than the post-injury rate. Do agree that Carr is far more mobile than a lot of people credit him with. Going to be a fun season to watch.
     
  19. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    54,921
    Likes Received:
    2,605
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    First, take note that he only played 12 games that year. Second, take a gander at the completion percentage--65.3%. Exactly two QB's beat that last year--Manning 67% and Favre 65.5%. In 2002 that would have put him in 4th spot. The pro-bowl shouldn't be just about yards or TD's but about being an effective QB--Aikman was definitely that.

    Combine that kind of passing percentage with Emmitt Smith and you don't need huge #'s of TD's to have a great football team.
     
  20. aj.

    aj. Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    347
    The tight end was a big reason for that completion percentage. That was the coming out year for Smith, Irvin, Novacek, and Aikman as a group.

    Carr has a real o-line and the weapons around him to succeed. Let's see what he can do with it. I can live with a mid-50's completion percentage if he could just reverse the TD/Int thingy.

    Looks like Mark Rypien and Chris Miller were the two other NFC Pro Bowlers that year.
     

Share This Page