Bush to Texans... Young to Titans

[The Dream]

Carr did show anger around the middle of the season, towards the end of the season is when he was a bit smiley, and I can't blame him, what else can he do? And so it is OK for Mathis to laugh when Brown misses a chipshot field goal that costs us a game but Carr can't be cheery?

Look Mathis is our return man..........Carr is our QB our general......there's a big difference.....I'm not saying he has to walk around with a mean mug all the time, but the dude is waaaaay to happy to be a firey leader............I was just watching Jake Delohme on the sideline and he was in his receiver's face, telling them what to do on the sideline.........I have never, and I mean never seen Carr do such a thing in his 4 years here......he's a nice friendly guy, but sometimes that isn't the best thing to be when you're supposed to be a leader.

 

[bigTEXan8]

Passing on VY is going to be a good move for us because then, when VY can't get a grasp of the NFL game, the Titans will be push-overs. Like I said before, If you guys want VY so badly, wait till Madden 07 comes out, trade him or create him then. Hell, you guys are going to have to create him because the God you people are making him out to be, all the players combined wouldn't make the ratings you think VY is going to have.

 

[bigTEXan8]

Look Mathis is our return man..........Carr is our QB our general......there's a big difference.....I'm not saying he has to walk around with a mean mug all the time, but the dude is waaaaay to happy to be a firey leader............I was just watching Jake Delohme on the sideline and he was in his receiver's face, telling them what to do on the sideline.........I have never, and I mean never seen Carr do such a thing in his 4 years here......he's a nice friendly guy, but sometimes that isn't the best thing to be when you're supposed to be a leader.

At least Delohme has some decent time to throw the ball, and a D that doesn't run and hide.

 

[Bongo59]

Yes it took years before McNair got to the Super Bowl, but he looked a lot better than Carr has in his first 4 years.

.............bingo.............we have a winner...............I like Carr i really do..............but it is obvious both sides need a new place to start..............I think if BMcNair keeps CC you guys are making the biggest mistake in your life.................he is the reason DC did not have an OL

 

[The Dream]

Passing on VY is going to be a good move for us because then, when VY can't get a grasp of the NFL game, the Titans will be push-overs. Like I said before, If you guys want VY so badly, wait till Madden 07 comes out, trade him or create him then. Hell, you guys are going to have to create him because the God you people are making him out to be, all the players combined wouldn't make the ratings you think VY is going to have.

^^^^What are you talking about???.......all I know is VY is more of a leader than Carr will ever be.......hell Gary Walker even thinks Vince should go #1, and this is coming from a guy who is Carr's teammate.....he does not have the respect of his own players, because he is not a leader.....no one is calling Vince a God, but we are calling David average.

At least Delohme has some decent time to throw the ball, and a D that doesn't run and hide.

Yes he has a better team around him, but the fact that Carr doesn't have the team that Jake has, doesn't mean that he still can't be fired up some of the time or show some kind of leadership qualities on the sideline.

 

[B.Diddy]

I agree with you dream David carr isn't a leader which is why our team has no idenity vince has way more upside than carr will ever have. oh and need i remind you that houston didn't even want david carr we wanted Vick we settled for carr when Vick left college early

 

[bigTEXan8]

^^^^What are you talking about???.......all I know is VY is more of a leader than Carr will ever be.......hell Gary Walker even thinks Vince should go #1, and this is coming from a guy who is Carr's teammate.....he does not have the respect of his own players, because he is not a leader.....no one is calling Vince a God, but we are calling David average.

VY is going to be just as good as Alex Smith, except faster. VY is nothing but a zone-read QB, and will never be better than that. I can just see it now though, VY is going to get his first passing TD against the Texans because D-Rob will quit on the team...again. ick.

VY looks like a great leader because he played against a lousy USC defense, a lousy Big 12. Carr looked like a great leader when he played against lousy WAC division, and beat up on some overrated BCS teams when he was in college. Colorado, Wisconson, and Oregon State I believe. College is not pros...don't you even dare say that someone would be a great NFL leader at QB while he is still a college student.

 

[phan1]

I'm still not sure if VY is a legit NFL QB. Yes, the Rose Bowl was spectacular. He also has all the intangibles, no question. There is no college QB that I have seen that has been more clutch than Vince. And it wasn't just the Rose Bowl either, he has given us incredible (and improbable) comebacks time and time again. And as you all know, his athletic ability is amazing.

That being said, he is NOT a qb that can make all the throws. That is almost a fact. If you followed his season, you would know that UT doesn't run anything close to an NFL offense. It's a total gimmick offense that works because you're playing with a QB that has amazing athletic ability and an Oline that is the best in college football. Every team said that they needed to "contain Vince", but there is no team in college who could because the Oline is just too good. You can either contain Vince and give him a perfect pocket, or go after him and let him take it to the house. That's not going to happen in the NFL. He's never had a defensive line contain him and collapse the pocket at the same time. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

He also had a great passing efficiency because again, the Oline is amazing, and because of another guy: Tight End David Thomas. Having him out there is basically like having an Antonio Gates out there. He has a huge catching radius, and he should be credited hugely for Vince's success throwing the ball. He was also had recievers talented enough to go up for balls, as he would just lob up balls for his recievers for touchdowns at least 5 times a game. There is nothing out there that shows me he has an NFL calibur arm.

Now the question is, do you really need a QB in the NFL that can make all the throws? With his athletic ability and intangibles, is it that important that your QB make all the throws a QB is usually able to do? I don't know. We'll have to wait and see... In the end, it's almost about using your head or your heart. He has all the intangibles and can make things happen. But he CANNOT make all the throws people usually expect out of NFL QBs.

Like is or not, Reggie is the safe pick. You KNOW what you're going to get with reggie, you have no idea what you are going to get with Vince.

 

[Bongo59]

i would bet the move Reese makes now is a trade down and he does not take VY................reason why ...............him and Fish have to win now............we are not used to losing and Bud is paying Fish 5 mil a yr to produce.................drafting VY does nothing to help us until 2008

 

[B.Diddy]

If it were david carr or Vincent Young in the draft we would pick V.Young without even thinking about it so why is it even a question now.....David hasn't produced, Vince is a winner/Leader

 

[Bongo59]

Scouts i have talked to say VY can make all the throws.............the only knock on him is he took 92.3 % of snaps this yr fromt he gun..............they are worried about his drops and mechanics because he wont be able to run like he did in college................the one big benefit if he did come here is that Mcnair faced the exact same issue and he knows what it will take for VY and he already has an incredible relationship with him.......................

 

[The Dream]

VY looks like a great leader because he played against a lousy USC defense, a lousy Big 12. Carr looked like a great leader when he played against lousy WAC division, and beat up on some overrated BCS teams when he was in college. Colorado, Wisconson, and Oregon State I believe. College is not pros...don't you even dare say that someone would be a great NFL leader at QB while he is still a college student.

Well I guess OSU's defense was lousy also??? or any other team that the guy has face throughout his collegiate career???.....David Carr = average.....VY = untapped potential....you take your pick and let's leave it at that.

 

[Bongo59]

If it were david carr or Vincent Young in the draft we would pick V.Young without even thinking about it so why is it even a question now.....David hasn't produced, Vince is a winner/Leader

to me this is the post of the thread...............it has the most common sense within it......................

 

[bigTEXan8]

The safest pick in this draft is D'Brickshaw Fergueson. That is the person we need to draft.

 

[barzilla]

Randall Cunningham=Vincent Young.

Hmmm, I was thinking the same thing and that's not particularly positive.

. . . . . . . . . . .PCT. . .Yds. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .YPC. . .TD
Cunningham. . .56.6. .29979. .207/134. ..4928. . .6.36. . .35

. . . . . .COM. . .ATT. . .PCT. . .YDS. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .TD
Year 1. ..34. . . ..81. . .420. . ..548. . ..1/8. . . . ..205. . . .0
Year 2. .111. . ..209. . .531. ..1391. . ..8/7. . . . ..540. . . .5
Year 3. .223. . ..406. . .549. ..2786. . ..23/12. . . .505. . . .3
Year 4. .301. . ..560. . .538. ..3808. . ..24/16. . . .624. . . .6

Total. ..669. . ..1256. ..533. ..8533. . ..56/43. . ..1874. . .14

Wow, I'm impressed. Let's take a look at Carr.

. . . . . .COM. . .ATT. . .PCT. . .YDS. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .TD
Year 1. .233. . ..444. . .525. . .2592. . ..9/15. . . ..282. . ...3
Year 2. .167. . ..295. . .566. . .2013. . ..9/13. . . ..151. . ...2
Year 3. .285. . ..466. . .612. . .3531. . .16/14. . . ..299. . ...0
Year 4. .256. . ..423. . .605. . .2488. . .14/11. . . ..308. . ...1

Total. . .941. ..1628. . .578. .10624. . .48/53. . . 1040. . . ..6

Can you claim Cunningham was a better QB in his first four years than Carr? Sure, he had a better TD/INT ratio and he created fourteen more touchdowns between his running and throwing. However, Carr passed for more yards and at a better percentage. Plus, he's been a better than average running QB. However, if Young is going to be another Cunningham I would say he shouldn't be the number one overall pick. Being better than Carr does not prove he is worthy of being number one. If Cunningham=Young then there is no proof that he would be better at all.

I happen to think the Cunningham comparison is a good one and he was a good NFL quarterback. He wasn't a great NFL QB. Maybe Young has more mental toughness than Cunningham. However, they both have the same issues (strong arms that aren't particularly accurate) and Cunningham never led his team anywhere close to a Superbowl (in fact, did he win a playoff game at all?)

 

[tulexan]

Actually Vince Young only has marginal arm strength

 

[texan279]

Hmmm, I was thinking the same thing and that's not particularly positive.

. . . . . . . . . . .PCT. . .Yds. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .YPC. . .TD
Cunningham. . .56.6. .29979. .207/134. ..4928. . .6.36. . .35

. . . . . .COM. . .ATT. . .PCT. . .YDS. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .TD
Year 1. ..34. . . ..81. . .420. . ..548. . ..1/8. . . . ..205. . . .0
Year 2. .111. . ..209. . .531. ..1391. . ..8/7. . . . ..540. . . .5
Year 3. .223. . ..406. . .549. ..2786. . ..23/12. . . .505. . . .3
Year 4. .301. . ..560. . .538. ..3808. . ..24/16. . . .624. . . .6

Total. ..669. . ..1256. ..533. ..8533. . ..56/43. . ..1874. . .14

Wow, I'm impressed. Let's take a look at Carr.

. . . . . .COM. . .ATT. . .PCT. . .YDS. . .TD/INT. . .RYDS. . .TD
Year 1. .233. . ..444. . .525. . .2592. . ..9/15. . . ..282. . ...3
Year 2. .167. . ..295. . .566. . .2013. . ..9/13. . . ..151. . ...2
Year 3. .285. . ..466. . .612. . .3531. . .16/14. . . ..299. . ...0
Year 4. .256. . ..423. . .605. . .2488. . .14/11. . . ..308. . ...1

Total. . .941. ..1628. . .578. .10624. . .48/53. . . 1040. . . ..6

Can you claim Cunningham was a better QB in his first four years than Carr? Sure, he had a better TD/INT ratio and he created fourteen more touchdowns between his running and throwing. However, Carr passed for more yards and at a better percentage. Plus, he's been a better than average running QB. However, if Young is going to be another Cunningham I would say he shouldn't be the number one overall pick. Being better than Carr does not prove he is worthy of being number one. If Cunningham=Young then there is no proof that he would be better at all.

I happen to think the Cunningham comparison is a good one and he was a good NFL quarterback. He wasn't a great NFL QB. Maybe Young has more mental toughness than Cunningham. However, they both have the same issues (strong arms that aren't particularly accurate) and Cunningham never led his team anywhere close to a Superbowl (in fact, did he win a playoff game at all?)

Cunningham's postseason numbers...
Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1988 chi L,12-20 | 27 54 407 0 3 | 3 12 0
1989 ram L,7-21 | 24 40 238 0 1 | 6 39 0
1990 was L,6-20 | 15 29 205 0 1 | 7 80 0
1992 nor W,36-20 | 19 35 219 2 0 | 2 19 0
1992 dal L,10-34 | 17 30 160 1 0 | 5 22 0
1995 det W,58-37 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 2 15 0
1995 dal L,11-30 | 11 26 161 0 1 | 3 19 1
1997 nyg W,23-22 | 15 36 203 1 1 | 7 38 0
1997 sfo L,22-38 | 18 40 331 3 1 | 2 14 0
1998 ari W,41-21 | 17 27 236 3 1 | 3 6 0
1998 atl L,27-30 | 29 48 266 2 0 | 6 13 1
1999 dal W,27-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 -4 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 192 365 2426 12 9 | 49 273 2

 

[The Dream]

If it were david carr or Vincent Young in the draft we would pick V.Young without even thinking about it so why is it even a question now.....David hasn't produced, Vince is a winner/Leader

to me this is the post of the thread...............it has the most common sense within it......................

Yes it is.........ask any NFL GM who they want for their QB (besides the Texans) and I bet you 90% would take Young over Carr.

 

[bigTEXan8]

Well I guess OSU's defense was lousy also??? or any other team that the guy has face throughout his collegiate career???.....David Carr = average.....VY = untapped potential....you take your pick and let's leave it at that.

Oh...I'm sorry. The 1 team the barely beat. That doesn't mean ****.

 

[tulexan]

Troy Smith didn't play much in that game either.

I don't think they could beat the Ohio State that beat Notre Dame.

 

[Tulip]

Terry Bradshaw and Jimmy Johnson were both just salivating all over Vince Young.

I guess they want NO to take him because they want him on an NFC team they can watch every week.

 

[The Dream]

yeah Bradshaw said himself he would like Vince to be in the NFC so he could cover him every week throughout his career......I know you can't make all decisions based on gut feelings, but I have a gut feeling that Vince will be something special.

 

[phan1]

Troy Smith didn't play much in that game either.

I don't think they could beat the Ohio State that beat Notre Dame.

Yeah, playing with their QBs was really stupid on the coaches part.

 

[MorKnolle]

If it were david carr or Vincent Young in the draft we would pick V.Young without even thinking about it so why is it even a question now.....David hasn't produced, Vince is a winner/Leader

If I were leading a team I'd take David over Vince every time. I would always prefer to have the better throwing QB vs. the better running QB any day, so assuming there were no glaring problems with one or the other (off-field issues, complete lack of football sense, etc.) I'd take Carr.

yeah Bradshaw said himself he would like Vince to be in the NFC so he could cover him every week throughout his career......I know you can't make all decisions based on gut feelings, but I have a gut feeling that Vince will be something special.

Barring a trade-up, that won't happen. I think the Saints will take Leinart, depending on their coach. Rumore has it Mike Martz could be heading there, and he's never had a mobile QB in his offense and I think he'd take the more accurate QB (Leinart, who also has run a more NFL-like offense at USC than Young did at UT) to get the ball to all those speedy WRs. The next NFC team in the draft is the Packers and they have Aaron Rodgers waiting behind Favre, so they won't take Young. The next NFC team is the 49ers and they just got Alex Smith so they won't draft Young. The next NFC team is the Lions, they are looking for a QB but I doubt Young lasts until #9, so like I said, unless a team (maybe the Lions) trades up, Young will most likely end up in the AFC. My current prediction would be Young going to the Titans, so everyone here will get to watch him twice a year after McNair retires (Bush to us/Jets at #1, Leinart to Saints, Young to Titans)

 

[dat_boy_yec]

Now that its official that VY has declared then the Texans need to reconsider their draft strategy. All the good NFL QB's came from colleges and guess what Young did something none of them have done. Everyone says that Young isn't proven againts NFL defenses and this and that. I got news for everybody no NFL QB had NFL experience before being drafted. No QB played againts an NFL defense in college, but they all succeeded to some degree in the NFL so what makes anybody think that Young who is the only one to do what he did in college won't make it in the NFL. I'll admit it before Young declared I wanted to keep Carr because Leinart is not much if any upgrade over Carr, but Young is. We can say oh Carr has potential, but so does Young. Personally I don't care what the Texans do as long as they get better, but if they handed Carr that bonus this week I would be really pissed off because that would be a sign to me that they didn't even consider Young, to me I won't turn my back on the Texans if they don't choose Young. I will still be uber-pissed though.

 

[The tech]

I am a Texans fan since the begining, Also an Oiler fan from way back to the Earl days. Today, VY came out for the draft. Even though there are 4 months to the draft and alot of drama & such are gonna happen, it breaks down to who is gonna be the best pick for the Texans, overall. Will Vince be any better than Carr without a line or protection? How bout Reggie?Teams are not built solely on the draft, as we all know. If Houston does not bulk up the O-Line for either an RB or QB, we're at the bottom of the food chain. And until we figure out who is leading the team, it's a toss up for the type of offense that's gonna work with either. My humble opinion is we should take Vince, he's a QB & running back combined. There's too much money on the table for Carr & I think we gamble. When is Carr's deal up guys? I'm up in WI now & don't get the coverage.

 

[Hervoyel]

Now that its official that VY has declared then the Texans need to reconsider their draft strategy. All the good NFL QB's came from colleges and guess what Young did something none of them have done. Everyone says that Young isn't proven againts NFL defenses and this and that. I got news for everybody no NFL QB had NFL experience before being drafted. No QB played againts an NFL defense in college, but they all succeeded to some degree in the NFL so what makes anybody think that Young who is the only one to do what he did in college won't make it in the NFL. I'll admit it before Young declared I wanted to keep Carr because Leinart is not much if any upgrade over Carr, but Young is. We can say oh Carr has potential, but so does Young. Personally I don't care what the Texans do as long as they get better, but if they handed Carr that bonus this week I would be really pissed off because that would be a sign to me that they didn't even consider Young, to me I won't turn my back on the Texans if they don't choose Young. I will still be uber-pissed though.

When variations of those exact same arguments failed to work for Reggie Bush how can you possibly trot them out to support Vince Young?

 

[barzilla]

If it were david carr or Vincent Young in the draft we would pick V.Young without even thinking about it so why is it even a question now.....David hasn't produced, Vince is a winner/Leader

Because now it is David Carr AND Reggie Bush or Vincent Young. I agree, if this were the 2002 draft I would pick Young without thinking about it. If you combine the value of a David Carr (I believe will be a better than average NFL starter at the very least once he has talent around him) and Reggie Bush (probably a top five back in all-purpose yards) you see the dilemma. Hey, if you think Young is that good great, but not all of us are sold.

 

[Coach C.]

Could the VY supporters please post VY's stats past and present, intangibles, and mannerism that make him a sure fire success and the reason why you want us to get him. I would appreciate seeing this and please make these posts non-emotional.