Browns Terrific 12 v. Texans Terrific 12

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Mistril48, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. Mistril48

    Mistril48 All Pro

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    Old Posting (new posting below)

    In a salary cap regime like the NFL, the value of a player is a function of his performance measured against his cap value. A non-expansion NFL team typically drafts 12 players (the “T12” if you will) in the first 3 rounds over a 4 year period. These 12 players are particularly valuable to a franchise in a salary cap regime, because they typically have much lower cap values than players signed through free agency. For example, Chester Pitts has a 2004 cap value of $705,000, but Steve McKinney has a 2004 cap value of $3,050,000.

    Typically, an impact player becomes a free agent after four accrued years and either leaves, or receives his first big free agency contract. Each year, a franchise typically loses 3 first day drafted players to free agency (unless they re-sign the players) and get three replacements through the draft, thereby maintaining their T12 (in some cases, of course, a player drafted to be a T12 player won’t work out and a team may end up with less than 12, or a second day drafted player may excel, like Domanick Davis, thereby creating more than 12). McKinney, Bradford, Wong, Smith and Wade are all examples of four year players who got big raises to come to the Texans for their 5th year.

    In the 2002 season, the Texans first year, they only had 5 T12 (1 first, 2 second and 2 third), while all the other teams had 12. Bummer. Unlike the Panthers and the Jaguars, the Texans weren’t given any extra first round picks. Hard to compete.

    The good news is the Texans have now caught up, thanks to expansion picks and Charlie Casserly’s astute trades. They now have 12 players who they drafted on the first day. The Texans now have a T12 like other NFL teams. Good.

    New Posting

    How does the Texans next opponent, the Browns’, T12 compare with the Texans’ T12?

    . . YR . . Texans (only 3 yrs) . . . . . YR . . . Browns (4 yrs)

    F . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .’01 DT Gerard Warren
    I. . ’02 . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . .’02 RB William Green
    R . ’03 . WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . .‘03 OL Jeff Faine
    S . ’04 . CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . .’04 TE Kellen Winslow Jr.
    T . ’04 . LB Jason Babin

    S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .’01 WR Quincy Morgan/Antonio Bryant
    E . ’02 . WR Jabar Gaffney . . . . . . . . ’02 WR Andre Davis
    C . ’02 . OL Chester Pitts
    O . ’03 . TE Benny Joppru . . . . . . . . .’03 LB Chaun Thompson
    N . ’04 . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . ’04 DB Sean Jones
    D

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .’01 RB James Jackson
    T . ’02 . OL Fred Weary . . . . . . . . . . .’02 OL Melvin Fowler
    H . ’02 . OL Charles Hill (released)
    I . .’03 . LB Antwan Peek . . . . . . . . . .’03 DB Chris Crocker
    R . ’03 . OL Seth Wand
    D . ’03 .QB Dave Ragone


    The Texans have drafted 13 first day players and the Browns have drafted 11 first day players. The Texans have generated 7 starters (Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Pitts, Wand, Babin, Robinson) and the Browns have generated 6 starters (I think –Faine, Green, Davis, Warren, Thompson, Crocker).

    . . . . . . Texans (only 3 yrs) . . . . . . . . . . Browns (4 yrs)

    . . . . . . QB David Carr
    . . . . . . QB Dave Ragone

    . . . . . . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . . . RB William Green
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .RB James Jackson

    . . . . . .WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . . . . WR Quincy Morgan/Antonio Bryant
    . . . . . .WR Jabar Gaffney. . . . . . . . . . . WR Andre Davis

    . . . . . . TE Benny Joppru . . . . . . . . . . . TE Kellen Winslow Jr.

    . . . . . .OL Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . . . . OL Jeff Faine
    . . . . . .OL Seth Wand . . . . . . . . . . . . . .OL Melvin Fowler
    . . . . . .OL Fred Weary


    . . . . . .DL Charles Hill (released) . . . . . . .DT Gerard Warren

    . . . . . .LB Jason Babin. . . . . . . . . . . . . . LB Chaun Thompson
    . . . . . .LB Antwan Peek

    . . . . . .CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . . . . . DB Sean Jones
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .DB Chris Crocker


    Would you trade our players, above, for their players, above? If not, this may be one of the areas where the Browns have had trouble and help to explain their recent difficulties.

    Old Posting

    And the news gets better for the Texans. In 2005, the Texans should keep all of their T12 (none will have four accrued years) and add 4 new members through the 2005 draft (1 first, 1 second and 2 thirds), giving them a total of 16 T12. Great news!


    . . YR . . Texans (4 yrs)

    F. .‘02 . QB David Carr
    I . ’03 . WR Andre Johnson
    R . ’04 . CB Dunta Robinson
    S . ‘04 . LB Jason Babin
    T . ’05 . . . . P I C K

    S . ’02 .WR Jabar Gaffney
    E . ’02 . OL Chester Pitts
    C . ’03 . TE Benny Joppru
    O . ’04 . RB Tony Hollings
    N . ’05 . . . . P I C K
    D

    . . ‘02 . OL Fred Weary
    T . ’02 . OL Charles Hill (released)
    H . ’03 . LB Antwan Peek
    I . .‘03 . OL Seth Wand
    R . ‘03 . QB Dave Ragone
    D . ’05 . . . . P I C K
    . .. ’05 . . . . P I C K
     
  2. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    I pettition that you rename the Browns "Terrific 12" to the "Dubious Dozen"
     
  3. Fiddy

    Fiddy Hall of Fame

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    lol, yeah they have one of the worst rush defenses in the league and Gerrad Warren was the 3rd overall pick of his draft and Courtney Brown was the 1st overall selection of his draft. I appricate Charley Casserly more than ever right now...
     
  4. Errant Hothy

    Errant Hothy Hypermediocrity

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    True to all that, but who here wouldn't take Faine over McKinney?
     
  5. TEXANS84

    TEXANS84 Moderator Staff Member

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    Warrick Holdman is a Houston boy...I expect a good showing from him.
     
  6. Sarg01

    Sarg01 Hall of Fame

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    Comparing our draft choices to Clevelands - shouldn't this go in the smack talk forum? :hmmm:
     
  7. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    LOL Vinny (and I don't type that often). My first thought was along those lines. I was thinking: There are 12 guys on that team you could actually call "Terrific"?
     
  8. Mistril48

    Mistril48 All Pro

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    Over the year, I've tried to identify our first day drafted players and the first day drafted players of our opponent (90% of 2004 Pro Bowl players were drafted on the first day). It's my belief that one of the important components of an NFL team is it's 'cheaper' (ie less than 4 years of agrued service) players. In a salary cap regime, you have to get production out of your 'cheaper' players IMO.

    At the end of the year, some readers (myself included) may feel that the Texans have done a good job and that after only 3 years, we compare favorably with many of the teams we've played this year in this one area (an area IMO that is also an indication of potential for improvement in the future).

    It was not my intention to 'talk smack' about our opponents and in particular I would point out that I've not added any information about the opponents, such as statistics, other than when they were draft. I'm trying to understand more about the Texans. On the other hand, I have no difficulty moving the post if posters feel it should be moved.
     


  9. Sarg01

    Sarg01 Hall of Fame

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    Heh, I was being sarcastic, Mistril. If anyone was "smack"ing, it was me.
     
  10. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    Bravo Cleveland for allowing Butch Davis to scare off Ron Wolfe from his job as a draft consultant with your team earlier in the year. You could have recieved some valuable draft information which could've meant having a successful draft (for once), but you wanted no part of that. You stuck to your guns, and sided with the coach you'd go on to fire later in the season. :loser
     

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