bah007's Texans Draft

[bah007]

I have recently completed my first 7 round mock of the offseason (I will do one more right before the draft). I would post the whole thing on here but it would take forever and I don't think I would get enough feedback to make it worth my time. So I'll just post the Texans picks...

1 - DE Tyson Jackson, LSU
2 - HB LeSean McCoy, Pittsburgh
3 - OLB Marcus Freeman, Ohio St
4 - FS Sherrod Martin, Troy
4 - C A.Q. Shipley, Penn St
5 - TE Bear Pascoe, Fresno St
6 - QB Graham Harrell, Texas Tech
7 - OG Greg Isdaner, West Virginia

I was drafting for 31 other teams as well so it didn't fall exactly like I wanted it to for the Texans. I tried to balance need and BPA, but I think I went a little bit closer to BPA on this one.

Top three picks should make an immediate impact (Jackson would platoon with A. Smith). Martin and Pascoe would see the field at some point this year. Shipley and Isdaner would be depth. Harrell would battle Brink as the #3/PS guy (we could develop him and trade him for a better pick than a 6th).

 

[Maddict5]

dont like the top 2 picks at all

the mid rounders are good though especially martin

 

[YoungTexanFan]

I don't think Tyson Jackson is a first round talent. He's more similar to Marcus Spears than Mario Williams. Jackson is pretty much a 3-4 DE who had an average career and a very poor Senior year when he was "the man." Way too much hype for the LSU DL.

I'm not a huge fan of McCoy, though I think he would be a solid pick in the second round. I just keep having flashes of Larry Johnson...after his new contract.

I think Freeman is a great pick in that spot. I don't know how much more we need at WOLB, but I think he will be a good player in time. Very solid pick.

Shipley is at about the same level as Myers, so it's not a bad investment to have a backup.

I like Isdander but I just don't know if he has a spot in the NFL. I've generally liked WVU OL, but I just don't know if this kid has it physically.

 

[TimeKiller]

A DE 1st round would make me hurl. I like the rest of the picks (the ones I know about anyway, McCoy, Shipley, Pascoe, Harrell) but you gotta do something about Tyson Jackson to the Texans. I'd much rather grab Beanie Wells or Moreno and then a 2nd round DE than this way.

 

[Polo]

No way do I want to take a rookie to platoon with Smith. He needs to be a big time producer for us.

 

[dalemurphy]

I have recently completed my first 7 round mock of the offseason (I will do one more right before the draft). I would post the whole thing on here but it would take forever and I don't think I would get enough feedback to make it worth my time. So I'll just post the Texans picks...

1 - DE Tyson Jackson, LSU
2 - HB LeSean McCoy, Pittsburgh
3 - OLB Marcus Freeman, Ohio St
4 - FS Sherrod Martin, Troy
4 - C A.Q. Shipley, Penn St
5 - TE Bear Pascoe, Fresno St
6 - QB Graham Harrell, Texas Tech
7 - OG Greg Isdaner, West Virginia

I'm pretty much with everyone else. I really don't like the first two picks. If we spend a high pick on a DE, it needs to be on a speed rusher. McCoy isn't athletic enough, IMO to go ahead of some of the other really good backs in this draft. I also really don't like the Shipley pick. There are so many really good centers in this draft that I would hate to come out of it with a guy who has a smaller wingspan than Jim Abbott.

 

[WolverineFan]

I also don't like us taking Jackson in the 1st. I think he would perform similar to the way Anthony Weaver did if he were put into our 4-3 defense.

It takes ALOT of work to do a 7 round mock though so I could disagree with every pick you made, but I'd still give you props for going through all the work. Nice job!!

 

[pbat488]

I like the Martin pick alot, Freeman also. But I have to disagree with Jackson, McCoy, and Harrell. If we did go DE at 15, I'd much rather have Ayers from the real UT. Also, I don't think McCoy is a good fit in our attempts to get a big-body back. He would probably excel in the ZBS scheme, and that might be a reason to get him, but Kubiak has stated many times over he is looking for a big body back to grind out the tough yards. Finally, I just hate Harrell. He was overrated in college because he played in a Madden-like offense. He did have great timing with his recievers and pretty good accuracy, but I don't think he'll be able to convert to a pro-style offense, and I don't think he'll be able to keep plays alive when they blow up. If a play blew up for Tech, he would just stand behind his giant line and hardly even move, which is a credit to his line, but didn't help him any.

But making a 255 pick draft? That seems pretty exhausting to me so I gotta give you props on that one.

 

[Texecutioner]

I have recently completed my first 7 round mock of the offseason (I will do one more right before the draft). I would post the whole thing on here but it would take forever and I don't think I would get enough feedback to make it worth my time. So I'll just post the Texans picks...

1 - DE Tyson Jackson, LSU
2 - HB LeSean McCoy, Pittsburgh
3 - OLB Marcus Freeman, Ohio St
4 - FS Sherrod Martin, Troy
4 - C A.Q. Shipley, Penn St
5 - TE Bear Pascoe, Fresno St
6 - QB Graham Harrell, Texas Tech
7 - OG Greg Isdaner, West Virginia

I was drafting for 31 other teams as well so it didn't fall exactly like I wanted it to for the Texans. I tried to balance need and BPA, but I think I went a little bit closer to BPA on this one.

Top three picks should make an immediate impact (Jackson would platoon with A. Smith). Martin and Pascoe would see the field at some point this year. Shipley and Isdaner would be depth. Harrell would battle Brink as the #3/PS guy (we could develop him and trade him for a better pick than a 6th).

You would rather have McCoy over Shonn Greene in the 2nd or do you just not think Greene will be there in the 2nd round where we pick?

 

[JCTexan]

I like every single pick besides Jackson. I just don't see him fitting into a 4-3 defense. I see him more as a 3-4 DE. I like Mccoy in the 2nd.. I have him as the 2nd best back in this draft (behind Moreno), so I would like the Texans to take a shot at him if he's still there in the 2nd. Freeman, Martin, Shipley & Pascoe are all nice picks in the rounds you have the Texans picking them. I like Graham Harrell as a 6th round pick for the Texans. Have him & Brink battle for the #3 QB spot and groom the winner. I don't know too much about Isdaner, but depth at guard is a good thing. Nice mock.

 

[bah007]

You would rather have McCoy over Shonn Greene in the 2nd or do you just not think Greene will be there in the 2nd round where we pick?

I don't think Greene will be on our radar. I liked what I saw from him all season long but he apparently didn't interview well with any of the teams at the combine. He has work ethic issues, maturity issues, and apparently has trouble keeping his weight down.

 

[bah007]

The backlash against the Jackson pick is about what I expected. I've been toying with the idea of several different guys with our first rounder.

I, too, would be disappointed with the Jackson pick only because he doesn't seem to fit our defense. But I tried to approach this as if I wasn't a fan of the team and I think that led me to go into more of a BPA approach.

 

[Texecutioner]

I don't think Greene will be on our radar. I liked what I saw from him all season long but he apparently didn't interview well with any of the teams at the combine. He has work ethic issues, maturity issues, and apparently has trouble keeping his weight down.

Really? Never heard any of that. I'd still take him in a second.

 

[WolverineFan]

Really? Never heard any of that. I'd still take him in a second.

So even though McCoy is rated as a higher prospect, has not had any red flags, and even you yourself said he would probably excel in the ZBS you would still reach for Green (a 3rd rd prospect) based on the sole fact that he is a "big-body" back despite the fact that he has had numerous red flags, been academically ineligible, etc, etc.? Am I wrong here?

 

[dalemurphy]

So even though McCoy is rated as a higher prospect, has not had any red flags, and even you yourself said he would probably excel in the ZBS you would still reach for Green (a 3rd rd prospect) based on the sole fact that he is a "big-body" back despite the fact that he has had numerous red flags, been academically ineligible, etc, etc.? Am I wrong here?

For what it's worth, I'd also take Green before McCoy. I think McCoy's stock has taken a significant hit due to some very poor workouts. Particularly his high jump and long jump hint at a serious lack of explosiveness. Green on the other hand, ran his 40 yard dash in the low 4.5s. Considering his size and strength, that's a great number for him and has calmed my concerns about his being able to run the zone stretch play.

 

[WolverineFan]

For what it's worth, I'd also take Green before McCoy. I think McCoy's stock has taken a significant hit due to some very poor workouts. Particularly his high jump and long jump hint at a serious lack of explosiveness. Green on the other hand, ran his 40 yard dash in the low 4.5s. Considering his size and strength, that's a great number for him and has calmed my concerns about his being able to run the zone stretch play.

I personally would rather have McCoy, but at least you gave some good reasons for your choice dale. If he had put up some numbers, or stats, etc. then I wouldn't have had a problem with it, but taking one RB with possible character issues over another RB based on the sole fact that he is a "big-body" back is ridiculous.

 

[Blake]

1 - DE Tyson Jackson, LSU

Wouldn't be excited, but wouldn't be pissed off either. Would rather have a linebacker or secondary player.

2 - HB LeSean McCoy, Pittsburgh

I like it. I think we could get a really good OL here and still get a great compliment for Slaton in the 3rd or 4th rounds.

3 - OLB Marcus Freeman, Ohio St

Great pick. I think Freeman is overlooked but will be a great pro.

4 - FS Sherrod Martin, Troy

Another great pick for the Texans. I like the idea of getting Martin FS or Vaughn SS here in the 4th.

4 - C A.Q. Shipley, Penn St

Not crazy about this pick. Would have rather fill this hole in 2nd or 3rd round.

5 - TE Bear Pascoe, Fresno St

Good pick.

6 - QB Graham Harrell, Texas Tech

Not a big Harrell fan. I guess its my UT side coming out. :P

7 - OG Greg Isdaner, West Virginia

Never heard of him.



Good overall job. I bet it was hell making all those picks.

I would like to see us get the following:

R1 Clay Matthews, OLB, USC
R2 Max Unger, OL, Oregon
R3 James Casey, TE, Rice
R4 Chip Vaughn, SS, Wake Forest
R4 Rashad Jennings, RB, Liberty
R5 Henry Melton, DE, Texas
R6 Ellis Lankster, CB, West Virgina
R7 Tony Fiammetta, FB, Syracuse

Trading down for Matthews would make some of the others seem like more of a reality, because round 2-4 could all be gone by the time we pick.

 

[Texecutioner]

So even though McCoy is rated as a higher prospect, has not had any red flags, and even you yourself said he would probably excel in the ZBS you would still reach for Green (a 3rd rd prospect) based on the sole fact that he is a "big-body" back despite the fact that he has had numerous red flags, been academically ineligible, etc, etc.? Am I wrong here?

I haven't heard any of that. Bah is the first one that told me that, and so what if he didn't interview so well? And? There hasn't been any horrible things reported about Greene anywhere. And since when does Greene or any other player for that matter need to make his grades to play in the NFL?

And how in the hell would Greene be a "reach?" You might want to actually go watch some of his highlights before calling the guy a reach because by the way you're talking about the guy you don't sound like you've hardly watched any film on him at all. And he isn't a 3rd round prospect either so I don't know where you got that from. Just about everywhere I have looked or read he is expected to go in the middle of the 2nd round exactly where we are in the draft and the round I would like us to draft him at.

And yes, I want the Texans to get a guy who is a very good compliment to Slaton that has strengths that Slaton doesn't have as much. Greene has those strengths. He might be the best pounder in between the tackles in the entire draft actually. He isn't a burner or anything with great speed, but he is very good up the middle and in the trenches fighting for tough yards. That is what we need right now. A guy who can get those short yardage first downs for us and those GL carries that we failed at last season.

 

[Texecutioner]

I personally would rather have McCoy, but at least you gave some good reasons for your choice dale. If he had put up some numbers, or stats, etc. then I wouldn't have had a problem with it, but taking one RB with possible character issues over another RB based on the sole fact that he is a "big-body" back is ridiculous.

What character issues? Please show me some link or some sort of multiple stories that have claimed Greene has all of these character issues that you keep claiming.

 

[Mr teX]

I see no CB,therefore i can't get behind this mock...

 

[WolverineFan]

I haven't heard any of that. Bah is the first one that told me that, and so what if he didn't interview so well? And? There hasn't been any horrible things reported about Greene anywhere. And since when does Greene or any other player for that matter need to make his grades to play in the NFL?

And how in the hell would Greene be a "reach?" You might want to actually go watch some of his highlights before calling the guy a reach because by the way you're talking about the guy you don't sound like you've hardly watched any film on him at all. And he isn't a 3rd round prospect either so I don't know where you got that from. Just about everywhere I have looked or read he is expected to go in the middle of the 2nd round exactly where we are in the draft and the round I would like us to draft him at.

And yes, I want the Texans to get a guy who is a very good compliment to Slaton that has strengths that Slaton doesn't have as much. Greene has those strengths. He might be the best pounder in between the tackles in the entire draft actually. He isn't a burner or anything with great speed, but he is very good up the middle and in the trenches fighting for tough yards. That is what we need right now. A guy who can get those short yardage first downs for us and those GL carries that we failed at last season.

I have watched Green play and he is a beast, but draft stock always drops after the season not during. The guy will not be picked in the first 2 rounds. He has not interviewed well and he was academically ineligible. Do you have to pass your classes to play in the NFL? No. But how is he supposed to memorize an entire NFL playbook and contribute as a rookie if he isn't focused on learning. Maybe his dedication to football is deeper than his dedication to academics. Let's hope so.

 

[Texecutioner]

I have watched Green play and he is a beast, but draft stock always drops after the season not during. The guy will not be picked in the first 2 rounds. He has not interviewed well and he was academically ineligible. Do you have to pass your classes to play in the NFL? No. But how is he supposed to memorize an entire NFL playbook and contribute as a rookie if he isn't focused on learning. Maybe his dedication to football is deeper than his dedication to academics. Let's hope so.

I highly doubt he'll go to the 3rd round. If he does then some team in the 3rd round will get a huge steal like what we got last season with Slaton.

He'll most likely go in the 2nd for sure.

And bad interviews isn't the big deal that you're making it out to be. I mean what did he say or do that was so bad? I would have to hear some specifics on these bad interviews for me to really take it that seriously.

 

[Blake]

Lets just agree he can go from mid 2nd to mid 3rd. I think his value to us would be in the 3rd.

 

[WolverineFan]

I highly doubt he'll go to the 3rd round. If he does then some team in the 3rd round will get a huge steal like what we got last season with Slaton.

He'll most likely go in the 2nd for sure.

And bad interviews isn't the big deal that you're making it out to be. I mean what did he say or do that was so bad? I would have to hear some specifics on these bad interviews for me to really take it that seriously.

That's kind of my point. He is a 2nd round talent that will probably drop into the early 3rd because of some "possible" red flags. People fall in the draft all the time so it's not even close to being uncommon. Do I think he is good enough to be a 2nd round pick? Yes. But I think we could wait and still get him in the 3rd. Anyway I'm not going to continue annoying everybody that looks at this thread with our banter back and forth so if you want to keep the conversation going then PM me.

 

[Texecutioner]

That's kind of my point. He is a 2nd round talent that will probably drop into the early 3rd because of some "possible" red flags. People fall in the draft all the time so it's not even close to being uncommon. Do I think he is good enough to be a 2nd round pick? Yes. But I think we could wait and still get him in the 3rd. Anyway I'm not going to continue annoying everybody that looks at this thread with our banter back and forth so if you want to keep the conversation going then PM me.

No biggie, you could be right my friend, I just don't think he drops like that though because it hasn't been talked about enough. If he were to drop and we could get him in the 3rd, man would I be STOKED!

 

[WolverineFan]

No biggie, you could be right my friend, I just don't think he drops like that though because it hasn't been talked about enough. If he were to drop and we could get him in the 3rd, man would I be STOKED!

Hey no problem man we all have our own favorite players and we get a little heated from time to time, no big deal. We're all still Texans fans. I would be extremely happy to grab Green in the 3rd though.

 

[bah007]

Changes:

1 (15) - Clay Matthews - OLB, USC
2 (46) - William Moore - SS, Missouri
3 (77) - Andre Brown - HB, North Carolina St
4 (112) - Trevor Canfield - OG, Cincinnati
4 (122) - Matt Shaughnessy - DE, Wisconsin
5 (152) - John Phillips - TE, Virginia
6 (188) - Brandon Underwood - FS, Cincinnati
7 (223) - Darryl Richard - DT, Georgia Tech

Any thoughts?

 

[nunusguy]

Changes:

1 (15) - Clay Matthews - OLB, USC
2 (46) - William Moore - SS, Missouri
3 (77) - Andre Brown - HB, North Carolina St
4 (112) - Trevor Canfield - OG, Cincinnati
4 (122) - Matt Shaughnessy - DE, Wisconsin
5 (152) - John Phillips - TE, Virginia
6 (188) - Brandon Underwood - FS, Cincinnati
7 (223) - Darryl Richard - DT, Georgia Tech

Any thoughts?

FWIW I like most of your picks, except I just can't get on board the Matthews bandwagon.

 

[V3rm0nt3r]

R1 Clay Matthews, OLB, USC
R2 Max Unger, OL, Oregon
R3 James Casey, TE, Rice
R4 Chip Vaughn, SS, Wake Forest
R4 Rashad Jennings, RB, Liberty
R5 Henry Melton, DE, Texas
R6 Ellis Lankster, CB, West Virgina
R7 Tony Fiammetta, FB, Syracuse

Trading down for Matthews would make some of the others seem like more of a reality, because round 2-4 could all be gone by the time we pick.

i just don't see a lot of this happening. rounds 2, 3, and 7 definitely won't happen i'm afraid to say Smithiak loves this OL too much to spend a second rounder on an upgrade there. Dressen just got a fat contract for a backup TE and there are 2 FBs already on the roster and draft history shows that the Texans like to draft guys who can develop for a couple of years and then get a shot at legitimate playing time (see Anderson, Diles, and Brink) and Leach looks to be the FB in Houston for a long time (signed through '10 at least and he's a lot better than Fiammetta will be as hes been a pro bowl snub for, arguably, the last two years).

 

[V3rm0nt3r]

Changes:

1 (15) - Clay Matthews - OLB, USC
2 (46) - William Moore - SS, Missouri
3 (77) - Andre Brown - HB, North Carolina St
4 (112) - Trevor Canfield - OG, Cincinnati
4 (122) - Matt Shaughnessy - DE, Wisconsin
5 (152) - John Phillips - TE, Virginia
6 (188) - Brandon Underwood - FS, Cincinnati
7 (223) - Darryl Richard - DT, Georgia Tech

Any thoughts?

love it. not 100% on the Moore Bandwagon but i wouldn't be mad if he were the pick.

 

[Goldensilence]

i just don't see a lot of this happening. rounds 2, 3, and 7 definitely won't happen i'm afraid to say Smithiak loves this OL too much to spend a second rounder on an upgrade there. Dressen just got a fat contract for a backup TE and there are 2 FBs already on the roster and draft history shows that the Texans like to draft guys who can develop for a couple of years and then get a shot at legitimate playing time (see Anderson, Diles, and Brink) and Leach looks to be the FB in Houston for a long time (signed through '10 at least and he's a lot better than Fiammetta will be as hes been a pro bowl snub for, arguably, the last two years).

I'm wondering where you get the idea that Rick smith and Gary Kubiak love the line so much that they are unwilling to upgrade. A link would be great. I think the last I saw was that Rick or Gary saying that they wouldn't pass up on offensive talent that grades out better then available defensive talent. Which I think is pretty consistent with the off-season moves Rick has made in signing Antonio Smith, Cato June, Shaun Cody, and resigning Wilson and Ferguson. Now I'm not saying these guys are all world class players but, I don't see us going DE first round after signing Smith unless Brown drops to us at 15 then I think I'd be too tempted to say no. I think he'll be gone by the time our pick rolls around though. The other signings allow us to not have to make a NEED pick in the first round.

For this first time in our franchise's history i can say that I think we have a good situation at Tackle, man that sounds so good to day. The interior of however leaves a LOT to be desired. I really like having a guy like Chester Pitts on the line and think he'll retire as a Texan. Not too worried about resigning him next year. Brisiel might've played consistent through the year for the most part but he has the same flaw that Myers has. Both are adequate inbetween the twenties but in the redzone they lack the ability to establish the line of scrimage and get pushed back. It would be nice to have a line where they can do that, especially in short down and goal line situations. If gets even worse when we look behind Brisiel, Pitts and Myers for backups. Chris White, Dan Stevenson, Kasey Studdard, and Adam Stenavich are your backups. None of which IMO inspire confidence.

I think the idea is that people look at finishing 3rd overall in offense and that we're set on the offense. I disagree. We finished 4th in passing yards and 3rd in overall offensive yards. we jumped up to 13th in rushing due to the emergence of Steve Slaton, again another problem, want to count on Chris Brown being healthy or Ryan Moats to carry the load? We also finished 17th in points and our redzone efficiency was outright terrible. 61 redzone possessions with only 28 TDs and 20 Fgs. I can remember us settling for a lot of field goals too.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/finalredzn.htm

We also gave up 32 sacks and some brutal hits to Schaub that cost him playing time. Gotta keep Schaub upright and in the game if we want this offense clicking.

I don't think Rick is going to hamstring himself by saying ok we're only going to take defense, no matter what, in the top three rounds.

 

[dalemurphy]

I'm wondering where you get the idea that Rick smith and Gary Kubiak love the line so much that they are unwilling to upgrade. A link would be great. I think the last I saw was that Rick or Gary saying that they wouldn't pass up on offensive talent that grades out better then available defensive talent. Which I think is pretty consistent with the off-season moves Rick has made in signing Antonio Smith, Cato June, Shaun Cody, and resigning Wilson and Ferguson. Now I'm not saying these guys are all world class players but, I don't see us going DE first round after signing Smith unless Brown drops to us at 15 then I think I'd be too tempted to say no. I think he'll be gone by the time our pick rolls around though. The other signings allow us to not have to make a NEED pick in the first round.

For this first time in our franchise's history i can say that I think we have a good situation at Tackle, man that sounds so good to day. The interior of however leaves a LOT to be desired. I really like having a guy like Chester Pitts on the line and think he'll retire as a Texan. Not too worried about resigning him next year. Brisiel might've played consistent through the year for the most part but he has the same flaw that Myers has. Both are adequate inbetween the twenties but in the redzone they lack the ability to establish the line of scrimage and get pushed back. It would be nice to have a line where they can do that, especially in short down and goal line situations. If gets even worse when we look behind Brisiel, Pitts and Myers for backups. Chris White, Dan Stevenson, Kasey Studdard, and Adam Stenavich are your backups. None of which IMO inspire confidence.

I think the idea is that people look at finishing 3rd overall in offense and that we're set on the offense. I disagree. We finished 4th in passing yards and 3rd in overall offensive yards. we jumped up to 13th in rushing due to the emergence of Steve Slaton, again another problem, want to count on Chris Brown being healthy or Ryan Moats to carry the load? We also finished 17th in points and our redzone efficiency was outright terrible. 61 redzone possessions with only 28 TDs and 20 Fgs. I can remember us settling for a lot of field goals too.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/finalredzn.htm

We also gave up 32 sacks and some brutal hits to Schaub that cost him playing time. Gotta keep Schaub upright and in the game if we want this offense clicking.

I don't think Rick is going to hamstring himself by saying ok we're only going to take defense, no matter what, in the top three rounds.

I hope and believe you're right. Fortunately, we'll find out soon enough. I do have some concern about Kubiak's evaluation of the interior line. It stems from his decision last year to keep Kasey Studdard at the expense of Brandon Frye. So, I'm very anxious to see what happens. I know that there are some excellent C/G that are going to be available between the end of the 1st through the 3rd round. I'm hopeful that we grab one!

 

[threetoedpete]

It's not Kubiak's evaluation....it's Alex Gibb's evaluation. And I've seen nothing that says they are not satisfied with who they have. and where they have them. I've seen us say it...haven't seen them say it.

I've seen no one say their are dissatisfied with the one through four receivers...I've seen us say it. I've seen no where , any quote by Kubes that
Steve Slaton is not the lead back. I've seen us say that.

Never say Never.....No backs nor any offensive paly maker would be worth what a defensive playmaker would be worth to this team at this time. And that there is the truth. And if it's not then they shoud just go ahead and take Pettigrew who beyond doubt the highest rated player at his position, an under draft at the fifteen....by virtually everyone.

What Rick Smith and Kubiak will do....is if they get a great offer, they will move back. Under that scenario....that would allow them the leverage so they could take a C/G,S and or Rb higher. But just like Duane Brown......if they do get a move back.....it ain't going to be who you're hopping for. They have said over and over again the first guy mist start and the second will be a contributor. And that ain't a back or WR unless they move some body Saturday.