B.C. Before Cushing

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by badboy, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Posting on another thread about my prediction of a win Sunday, I found myself gushing about Cushing. Soon, I think we will be refering to the Texans as BC (Before Cushing). Most of you know I was not interested in drafting a linebacker in the first. Nothing against Cush or Matthews for that matter. I wanted a DT or Malcom Jenkins. It was great to see Cush play so well especially after the oh oh here we go injury. Yet that is just one side. I am even more interested in the fiery leader that he can become and that we do not have. Sure one can point to only four games but is there any indicator he is going to do anything but get better skill wise?

    Dunta? He can lay the wood, sometimes, but really needs to get back into the groove. He also has to win back many fans. I think DR and the others especially Okoye and Diles will benefit from Brian's play and his take no prisoner mentality. He is the type player that motivate the offense. AJ could be the vocal point but it will be interesting to see how he expresses himself during this game. Will he just be a good receiver or will he continue with his recent "I'm going to beat you and there is nothing you can do" attitude we recently marveled at.

    I think if Cushing continues and remains healthy, it will be like getting two players with one pick. Now if we could just get Taylor Mays ...
     
  2. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    I posted last week that right now Cushing is playing the best on the defense. I actually hone in on watching just him when our defense is on the field because I know he'll be around the ball to make the tackle. He's playing a lot better than Aaron Curry, drafted 4th by the Seahawks. Actually, if you think about it he's playing better than any of the defensive players picked before him right now.

    As for next year's draft, I hope we trade up and make it a point to get Berry or Mays. I would give up our 1st and 3rd to swap with a team to get higher to draft one of those two. Mays will go in the top 10 and I can't imagine Berry lasting much longer after.

    Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?
     
  3. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    I continue to place a higher value on an outstanding corner than an outstanding safety. We need both but I've told you where my priority is.
     
  4. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    IF the scouting determines that Mays or Berry are substationally better than the safeties that will be available mid 1st round (where we will undoubtedly be picking) then I have no problem trading up with something valuable. We've been pretty poor historically in the 2nd round, so why not
     
  5. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    I know, I don't see corner as big of a need as a safety though. Besides I think GQ can be a starting corner on a good defense and BM has a lot of upside. And were paying Reeves and Dunta starters money. I don't think giving a first round corner starters money when at best they'll be a nickel or dime CB makes sense. Especially with the huge hole at safety.

    Berry and Mays are in a class of their own as far as safetys for next year's draft. The debate will be who comes in as the 3rd guy. And whoever it is, they won't be the impact Berry or Mays is.
     
  6. will742

    will742 Nukkkk

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    I'm not very familiar with trade value as far as draft picks go, but say (hypothetically) that we are picking at #19, would a second rounder alone allow us to move that far?
     
  7. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    So if we were picking at 19, say Mays is there at #8 and the #8 team wants to trade out. What that team would want is our #19 pick and another pick or two and we trade up and pick at #8. My question is, is giving up a 2nd round pick along with our 19th worth it for one of those safetys? This draft is LOADED with talent, its gonna be one of the best drafts in a long time. So trading into the top 10 will be expensive, and I would guess that the team picking in the top 10 trading out would want a 2nd (and possibly more picks, 4th, 5th rounder or whatever) to go along with swapping 1sts.
     
  8. Goldensilence

    Goldensilence hipster elite

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    I still have questions about our CBs, DTs, and interior of the line. Only way I'd make a big move for Mays or Berry is if I really felt like either one of those guys elevates the defense enough to be a playoff contender. Berry perhaps, Mays I'm still not sold on being worth it. I can't also help but wonder if both of those guys really are off the board after the top 10-15.
     


  9. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    I have to say no to most trade ups. I don't know as much about Berry. We can get by at SS with what we have, especially if Pollard plays well. We got to have a FS, a guard, a power back and probably a CB and DT. I do not see a DT with what I am looking for, a big run stopping dude similar to Terrence Cody; but I'm unsure he will translate to NFL. Maybe one or two FA but not really sure about that availability and Hampton will be 33. So, free safety, RB, corner and guard= 4 picks. If my board says Gerhart the 3rd best RB 6'1"235 4.55 in 2nd, no way do I give a #2 for a FS, especially if I think Mays will slide a bit like Jenkins last draft. We have 13 weeks to develop the corners. Maybe it's Reeves and DR, maybe Quinn and/or McCain are players and we do not have to use a higher selection (my board has Murphy from S. Florida in 3rd and no slip later). In 4th & 5th I can get my center and center/guard combo. Draft looks like this

    1. Mays FS on a trade up giving a 3
    2. Gerhart PWR RB
    3. trade up?
    4. Austin OG/C/T is my center
    5a TJ trade Eric Olsen N.D. C/LG/T is my LG
    5b Best CB

    Free agency? Hope I can land an Anthony Montgomery 6'6" 330 Redskin DT 2 sacks in 2008 23 tackles. Not much playing time but should get him cheap.
     
  10. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    I agree and in this draft, I think a very good corner can be selected round 3, not so for FS unless it is a CB convert to FS.
     
  11. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    In this scenario, absolutely no trade! As you point out too much available at what we need to give up that much.
     
  12. Wolf

    Wolf 100% Texan

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    yep, I used to refer to the Texans as A.D (After David)
     
  13. Hooston Texan

    Hooston Texan All Pro

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    Have to take issue with that statement. Even taking into account the Casserly years, our second round picks have been pretty good when we've deigned to use them at the draft podium. These are all the second-round picks of the Texans, in order: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Bennie Joppru, DeMeco Ryans, Connor Barwin. Pitts and Ryans were excellent picks. Gaffney was an OK one, and Joppru busted because of injuries. Jury is still obviously out on Barwin; heck, we're barely into the trial for him.

    It's been when we've tried to get tricky with our second rounders that we ran into serious trouble. Burning one to take Tony Hollings in the supplemental draft. Trading another (and a slew of later picks) to Bud Adams in order to draft Jason Babin. Trading yet another for Philip Buchanon. The only trade we made involving second-rounders that wasn't a complete disaster was the Schaub deal, and we're still debating whether two seconds was too steep a price (my take: we got a steal, but I'm biased).

    As for the question about trading up from a theoretical draft slot of 19 to get pick #8, we'd be giving up 1265 points (#19 is 875 and the second rounder is 390) to get a 1400 point pick. Going strictly on the point chart, that's a bit unbalanced. However, top 10 picks are financial albatrosses these days, and teams may be chomping at the bit to trade out of the top ten, so #8 could go for that deal.

    I still doubt I'd do that deal, though. I've heard there are as many as four projected first round safeties. If so, then we should get one of them so long as we aren't picking at the very end of draft. And if we do end up with such a late pick, maybe our need at safety isn't so urgent after all.
     
  14. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    This draft has a lot of good DTs actually... ESPN the Mag did a piece on the best DTs coming out... Suh and McCoy obviously were on there, they're both probably top 5-7 picks... two interesting under-the-radar DTs mentioned were Marvin Austin UNC (6'3" 305) and Arthur Jones (6'2" 293)... and before someone says "no more smallish DTs!" the article says both guys play way stronger than their weight, they have NFL DT bodies and push the pocket. More importantly they could be there in the 2nd/3rd round... Terrence Cody was mentioned but I didn't like that they mentioned he takes WAY too many plays off including in big games. But he has the body (6'5" 365)

    I don't think we'll be looking at RB or G/C/T in the first 2 rounds because of philosophy and the fact that we have just added Duane Brown and Caldwell with high picks....

    My point is our other main positions of need DT, RB, G can be addressed later. This draft is stacked with talent and its deep.
     
  15. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

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    Despite your comment, a lighter weight DT better be superman based on what I've seen.
     
  16. gary

    gary Hall of Fame

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    Any chance that Cush makes the Probowl if he were to continue to play at this level or get even better?
     
  17. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    Haha, hey I thought the same thing, I looked at those guys' size before even reading the paragraph about them and thought "same old story"

    Heres Arthur Jones' piece:

    And Marvin Austin:
    As for Cody, it mentions he has big time bust factor and that he could go anywhere from 10th overall to 50th overall.
     
  18. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    As a rookie OLB he'll have a tough time making the Pro Bowl. Remember Ryans didn't make the Pro Bowl his rookie year even though he was named the DROY. Cushing would have to have a phenomenal year to oust players like Suggs, Dumervil, Harrison, etc. for a Pro Bowl spot. With the high number of teams playing the 3-4 defense he'd be competing against OLBs with higher sack totals and better name recognition. I'd love to see him get that kind of honor though, but he may end up making the trip in his second year like Demeco did.
     
  19. gary

    gary Hall of Fame

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    I'd have to look at his stats and how they compare with other OLB's up till this point.
     
  20. texasguy346

    texasguy346 Mod Squad

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    So far Dumervil is having a fantastic season. He's tied for the league lead with 8 sacks. It will be interesting to see how things shake out during the rest of the season.
     

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