Archaic Denver offense?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Mr. White, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    Get a real blocking system already. Any good defense always eats our lunch.

    It might have worked 10 years ago, but those days are over. The game's evolved.

    We always end up getting manhandled by bigger D-Linemen.
     
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  2. Wolf6151

    Wolf6151 Hall of Fame

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    You mean this isn't the 80's and it's not Denver.

    Seems like Kubiak is stuck in the 80's and 90's in Denver and that's all he knows so he brings that system here along with all the rejected players from Denver. Our O-line is pathetic today.
     
  3. mussop

    mussop Hall of Fame

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    I have always said I hate systems that prefer less talented or less physically gifted players. Games are won in the trenches and we arent ever going to be a team that can control the LOS in the playoffs with the OL we have now. Im starting to think maybe we should start over.
     
  4. LonerATO

    LonerATO Hall of Fame

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    We should have the Andy Reid mentality and draft big linemen
     
  5. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    No joke. Now that I think about it, I don't think that Kubes wants big linemen on either side of the ball.
     
  6. LonerATO

    LonerATO Hall of Fame

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    Look at what Denver did when they drafted Ryan Clady. Mike knew he wasnt the small light linemen of a ZBS system, but was a beast of a linemen and could be coached into a system.
     
  7. Hervoyel

    Hervoyel The Right Track

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    That appears to be the problem.

    We've just finished building and installing an offense that's about ten years out of date. Time marches on in the NFL and this system was in decline in Denver when we first hired Kubiak.

    Great. You know what that makes us don't you? We're France right before the outbreak of WWII. We just finished installing our Maginot Line and we're ready to re-fight the first world war. There's just one problem....

    "The Zone Blocking Broncos are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You coach Kubiak are all that's left of their system"
     
  8. worldlyman

    worldlyman Veteran

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    Even the optimist in me had some concern that a pocket passing QB like Schaub is better suited with a classic pass protection line, such as the ones that protected Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning and so on.

    A game like this one only bears this out. It was like Ike through the Seawall today!

    Even in the heyday of the ZBS, John Elway was wily and physically gifted enough to get out of trouble when things broke down. Matt just isn't that kind of athlete.
     


  9. 4Texans

    4Texans Hall of Fame

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    I was at the game, and as I was driving home I was telling myself the same thing. This ZBS needs to go! Our OL and RB's got man-handled and embarassed. The coaching staff has got to get real and see the light. It's going to be a long season............
     
  10. awtysst

    awtysst Draft Guru

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    Lets look at two very different power running systems: Baltimore and Pittsburgh and compare the size of their Oline to ours.

    Houston
    LT Brown: 6'4 313lbs
    LG Pitts:6'4 321lbs
    C Myers: 6'4 299lbs
    RG Briesel: 6'5 304lbs
    RT Winston:6'5 319 lbs


    C Caldwell: 6'3 312lbs
    C White: 6'4 290lbs
    G Studdard:6'3 306 lbs
    LT/RT Butler: 6'4 310lbs

    Now compare these guys size to the starting Oline for Baltimore and Pittsburgh

    Baltimore:
    LT: Gaither: 6'9 340lbs
    LG: Grubbs: 6'4 315lbs
    C: Birk : 6'4 309lbs
    RG: Chester 6'3 315lbs
    RT: Oher 6'4 310 lbs

    Pittsburgh:
    LT: Starks: 6'8 345lbs
    LG: Kemoetu: 6'3 344lbs
    C: Hartwig : 6'5 312lbs
    RG: Essex: 6'5 324
    RT: Colon 6'3 315lbs

    Basically, Baltimore has a lighter group of mostly 315lbs(outside of Gaither) whereas Pitt goes heavy.

    Lets look at Balti again and compare with Htown:
    Baltimore:
    LT: Gaither: 6'9 340lbs
    LG: Grubbs: 6'4 315lbs-> LG Pitts:6'4 321lbs
    C: Birk : 6'4 309lbs-> Caldwell: 6'3 312lbs
    RG: Chester 6'3 315lbs->
    RT: Oher 6'4 310 lbs-> RT Winston:6'5 319 lbs

    Basically, we have guys that are currently similar at only 3/5 positions. We do not have a big enough RG(options would be White, Briesel, or Studdard) or a big enough road Grading LT. In fact many of the top teams like Balti, Pitt, Minnesota and Philly have massive LTs in the 330+ lb range. That is not to say that you cannot run a power system with a smaller LT, but it does make it tougher.

    We may be able to get Brown to add another 10 lbs of muscle and that might be enough. In addition, if Studdard could put on 10 lbs as well, he might be good enough. In a power system you need to be mean and push people around. There are no needs for fancy moves, its just pushing the Dline off the ball.

    Simply put, we do not have enough of the right components. Some of the players could be used, but White, Briesel, Butler, and Myers, are probably not usable. Studdard and Brown are maybes if they can add weight.
     
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  11. TexansFight

    TexansFight All Pro

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    Quoted for the truth! For ONCE, I would love to see the Texans BEAT their man one on one on BOTH the offensive and defensive lines. I want to get a coach in here he wants nasty players with attitudes on both sides of the ball that are able to DOMINATE the LOS. This town deserves a winner and not the abortion the Texans are giving us.
     
  12. gtexan02

    gtexan02 Working?

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    Its funny how last year everyone loved Steve and the ZBS and Gibbs was a genius, and after 1 game, well, you know
     
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  13. TexansLucky13

    TexansLucky13 53d Signal Batt

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    The ZBS has always suffered against the 3-4... that's just the way it is. The larger nose tackles associated with those defenses command the middle of the offensive line.

    In a perfect world, we could have an athletic center suitable for the ZBS who could hold his own against 350 pound NTs... unfortunately those are hard to come by.
     
  14. LonerATO

    LonerATO Hall of Fame

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    I don't think the Texans would be running this system if they played in a 3-4 dominant division.
     
  15. GNTLEWOLF

    GNTLEWOLF All Pro

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    I have often thought the same thing, but I think what really needs to be done is use it like other teams do...that is...draft big quick linemen instead of the smaller quick linemen. With the big guys, we should be able to dominate the LOS if we get guys with some fire.
     
  16. Brisco_County

    Brisco_County Texans worthy

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    Didn't the ZBS work out pretty well for us last year?
     
  17. AnthonyE

    AnthonyE Lurker

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    Was it me or did Steve Slaton look noticably slow out there? I thought Chris Brown was running well out there. He definitely looked quicker hitting the hole on his three carries.
     
  18. brakos82

    brakos82 Hall of Fame

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    He's been looking a bit... somebody here phrased it perfectly, "Sluggish" throughout the preseason, and it carried over to today.
     
  19. ObsiWan

    ObsiWan Site Contributor

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    Agreed.

    And if you had asked me if I would ever utter the phrase, "Brown looks better than Slaton" back in June, I would have told you "no way". But if I were Kubiak, I would have left Brown in until he got tired.
     
  20. m5kwatts

    m5kwatts Hall of Fame

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    Before everyone makes themselves look silly every team in the league has zone-blocking runs in their playbook and even the heaviest slowest offensive lines zone-block atleast a few plays a game.
     

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