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Any of you gonna admit to owing DW4 an apology?

edromeo said:
I know right? What vitriol? All the debate over Watson must have been some grand collective misremembering.....apparently everyone (except 1 guy) was on board with Watson.
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It's ok to be wrong from time to time. And there is nothing wrong with admitting to being wrong. I was wrong about the offensive line play. I thought they did decent when they finally had a reliable quarterback at the helm.
 
edromeo said:
Comment doesn't match link....
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Texans are first bullet point. It’s the second or third sentence. I don’t know how you are missing it...

Are you ok? Hopefully there wasn’t too much vitriol in me comment. Do we need to call 911? Should I apologize for something?

Please - let us know you are ok!
 
TexansBull said:
Texans are first bullet point. It’s the second or third sentence. I don’t know how you are missing it...

Are you ok? Hopefully there wasn’t too much vitriol in me comment. Do we need to call 911? Should I apologize for something?

Please - let us know you are ok!
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Lol....awh...that's cute.

You are taking a light hearted thread, in celebration of your QB, and getting your feelings all caught up in it.

Your comment, despite your whining, still doesn't match the link btw. Did you watch your link?

Relax. Don't be so sensative.
 
TexansBull said:
Texans are first bullet point. It’s the second or third sentence. I don’t know how you are missing it...

Are you ok? Hopefully there wasn’t too much vitriol in me comment. Do we need to call 911? Should I apologize for something?

Please - let us know you are ok!
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Lol....awh...that's cute.

You are taking a light hearted thread, in celebration of your QB, and getting your feelings all caught up in it.

Your comment, despite your whining, still doesn't match the link btw. Did you watch your link?

Relax. Don't be so sensative.
 
edromeo said:
Lol....awh...that's cute.

You are taking a light hearted thread, in celebration of your QB, and getting your feelings all caught up in it.

Your comment, despite your whining, still doesn't match the link btw. Did you watch your link?

Relax. Don't be so sensative.
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Might I remind you that Watson hasn't even played a full season lets wait until he plays a full season injury free before declaring him a HOF'er.

We all want him to be a HOF'er but lets see what happens before you start acting like an asshole. Or maybe being right is so important to you it makes the asshole in you come out.

BTW, I hate these types of threads. They're so deviseive.
 
steelbtexan said:
Might I remind you that Watson hasn't even played a full season lets wait until he plays a full season injury free before declaring him a HOF'er.

We all want him to be a HOF'er but lets see what happens before you start acting like an asshole. Or maybe being right is so important to you it makes the asshole in you come out.

BTW, I hate these types of threads. They're so deviseive.
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Lol, a thread like this shouldn't be devisive at all.

It should be a celebration and collective joyous eating of crow for countless false takes that were tossed about last summer.

It's obvious some are so wrapped up in their feelings over being wrong the can't enjoy it....because they can't even admit it they were wrong.

Now here you are stooping to strawman claims like anyone has claimed Watson as a HOF other then YOU in the post.

If you and some others weren't so whiny and thin skinned you wouldnt need to resort to internet tough guy profanity/name calling.....you could see this thread for what its supposed to be and its not about me being right. But apparently you are so butt hurt over being wrong you're melting down lol.

Yawn.
 
JB said:
Did you read it?
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No I didn't read it. I thought he was posting the link for the video.

So you're sticking with the revisionist view that the only aspect of Watson's game some posters were worried about last summer was risk of injury?
 
edromeo said:
Lol....awh...that's cute.

You are taking a light hearted thread, in celebration of your QB, and getting your feelings all caught up in it.

Your comment, despite your whining, still doesn't match the link btw. Did you watch your link?

Relax. Don't be so sensative.
Click to expand...



Glad to know your ok.
 
quote-if-you-get-into-the-endzone-act-as-if-you-ve-been-there-before-vince-lombardi-139-96-22.jpg
 
All I can say is, they damn well better draft another QB as well, one who can look over all receivers and throw consistently on target. Peterman is still there, or maybe some unknown the coaches have been following.
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All things considered the Texans may have been better off signing Tajh Boyd who is currently a free agent.
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I am concerned with the ball velocity when it leaves Watsons hand, and his tendency to float it over the top to his receivers who were beating the defense mostly with raw talent.
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​
 
edromeo said:
No I didn't read it. I thought he was posting the link for the video.

So you're sticking with the revisionist view that the only aspect of Watson's game some posters were worried about last summer was risk of injury?
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No, was just commenting on your assertion that the link didn't reflect his comment, or vice-versa
 
Come on man! ..... To be honest I dunno why you brought Savage into the conversation , but I' gonna defend him since you did.

Savage was getting the ball out consistently at 1.3-2.2. He also has a short throwing motion , quick release. He just cant evade the rush. He might be less mobile than Schaub , if that's possible.

Watson on the other hand has a slow release , even the commentators mentioned it on NFL network , slightly below average.
His ability to escape , process information on the run and make plays off schedule is what gets him by. His arm is a long way from where it needs to be ... I'll call it a work in progress.

Get out the stopwatch and compare their deliveries ….
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Watson homers (or the utterly dense), like it or not Savage won the job rightfully.
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No, Savage didn't get ALL the first team reps... if there was a first team. I don't think there was. No Brown, not much Hops, and little from others that started LAST year

If Watson would have even challenged he would have had a shot at starting
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Yep, and its amazing to see how some people here, some very respected posters in fact, arent willing to see that Watson isnt going to be ready till at least 2018.

You put him in in the regular season when the shots matter, hes going to spiral into a checkdown/run-too-soon type player and pick up habits that are hard to shake off.

I love the guys potential but i think people are too quick to say a first round QB has to start early. We have a reasonable starter in Savage, a reasonable backup in Weeden. Dont make him try to win games before hes got the fundamentals right.

Watson was a first round pick based off potential, not based off being ready to start. Patience is going to be required.
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​
 
steelbtexan said:
We all want him to be a HOF'er but lets see what happens before you start acting like an asshole. Or maybe being right is so important to you it makes the asshole in you come out.

BTW, I hate these types of threads. They're so deviseive.
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What part of the thread was divisive?
Can you reread it and point out the part that cause posters to divide? If anything, the select few grumpy posters here made a big deal about a positive thread.

Not being a smart ass, just really want to know because, if anything, this thread was meant to celebrate our franchise qb and for guys to post their stories and thoughts after it was all said and done last season. I, as a big Watson (Clemson) fan, was overjoyed and in awe because I never thought he’d be that good in the pros.

Not declaring him a HOF’r but would surprise me one bit if he made it there when his time is up. (Hopefully in 15+ years)
 
edromeo said:
No I didn't read it. I thought he was posting the link for the video.

So you're sticking with the revisionist view that the only aspect of Watson's game some posters were worried about last summer was risk of injury?
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TexansBull said:
Texans are first bullet point. It’s the second or third sentence. I don’t know how you are missing it...
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I don’t know how it wasn’t clear. I referenced the bullet point and sentence. Those two things should tell you to read.
 
edromeo said:
Lol, a thread like this shouldn't be devisive at all.

It should be a celebration and collective joyous eating of crow for countless false takes that were tossed about last summer.

It's obvious some are so wrapped up in their feelings over being wrong the can't enjoy it....because they can't even admit it they were wrong.

Now here you are stooping to strawman claims like anyone has claimed Watson as a HOF other then YOU in the post.

If you and some others weren't so whiny and thin skinned you wouldnt need to resort to internet tough guy profanity/name calling.....you could see this thread for what its supposed to be and its not about me being right. But apparently you are so butt hurt over being wrong you're melting down lol.

Yawn.
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Not thin skinned at all, I said Watson would be a top 15 QB when he was drafted. I've admitted I was wrong in several threads IF he can stay healthy and dont understand the need for this thread because other than a few great games Watson really hasn't proven anything. Let him stay healthy for 16 games and the playoffs, then maybe that would've been the right time for this thread. Not that there's ever really a right time for a thread like this.

I called the Texans sucking last yr and the OL in particular but you didn't see me start up a BS thread like this one. You know why? I'm very comfortable in my shoes.
 
Mangler said:
What part of the thread was divisive?
Can you reread it and point out the part that cause posters to divide? If anything, the select few grumpy posters here made a big deal about a positive thread.

Not being a smart ass, just really want to know because, if anything, this thread was meant to celebrate our franchise qb and for guys to post their stories and thoughts after it was all said and done last season. I, as a big Watson (Clemson) fan, was overjoyed and in awe because I never thought he’d be that good in the pros.

Not declaring him a HOF’r but would surprise me one bit if he made it there when his time is up. (Hopefully in 15+ years)
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This is a premature thread that was made to stroke a couple of posters egos. That's what made the thread deviseive. You can re read all of this thread and make your own conclusions. I'm not going to waste my time with this.
 
I've been watching this thread for awhile. I think that even Watson's most ardent detractors who are Texans fans admitted to loving what Watson was doing before he was injured. I know I admitted to saying I was wrong about wanting Savage to start over Watson after Watson's second start. This was nothing more than either a pot stirring thread, a self-serving one ("look at me, I was right!") or one just born out of boredom. I'm giving the OP the benefit of doubt and saying it was the later. There are other members of this board I KNOW would create a thread like this just to grab some attention for themselves.

Bottom line is, his accomplishments are his alone. Nobody cares about who predicted it. You're not going to win a prize or admiration. If you're still puffing out your chest claiming to be right, about ANYTHING on a message board, you might have a self-esteem issue.
 
This is a fun thread too me. When the OP started this thread I already knew how the majority would respond. We've all been on here for years, therefore, we should know one another by now. Especially since it's only a hand full of us chiming on a regular.
 
Texansballer74 said:
This is a fun thread too me. When the OP started this thread I already knew how the majority would respond. We've all been on here for years, therefore, we should know one another by now. Especially since it's only a hand full of us chiming on a regular.
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Some of the guys take themselves too seriously. When I started the thread I admited I liked him but got caught up on all the negatives the media and posters here kept going on about. Now, I never thought we’d get him because I was convinced Cleveland would snatch him up. It once did I mention “I told you so” or “I was right.” I’m convinced most posters only read the thread title and let their elevated estrogen get the best of them.

Anyway, I was wrong in believing the negative hype and for a second thinking we made a mistake since Watson didn’t really look that good during preseason. Then came the second half of the opener and the rest is history.
 
Mangler said:
Same here, I thought he’d be the 1st overall pick though. But then everything just aligned perfectly for us. I never doubted his arm strength, or him for that matter. It was O’Brien coaching him that terrified me, but then our offense exploded. I guess I also owe ol’ assjaw an apology as well. What a pleasant surprise!
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Mangler said:
Some of the guys take themselves too seriously. When I started the thread I admited I liked him but got caught up on all the negatives the media and posters here kept going on about. Now, I never thought we’d get him because I was convinced Cleveland would snatch him up. It once did I mention “I told you so” or “I was right.” I’m convinced most posters only read the thread title and let their elevated estrogen get the best of them.

Anyway, I was wrong in believing the negative hype and for a second thinking we made a mistake since Watson didn’t really look that good during preseason. Then came the second half of the opener and the rest is history.
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You do a lot of waffling in your posts. In one post you say you never doubted his arm strength or him, but then come back with saying you did after listening to these other posters. Repeatedly you say you only doubted whether he would be there for the Texans to pick.

That’s why a lot of what you say comes across as disingenuous.

Keep your story straight whatever it may be is all I can say. You are the one creating it.
 
Mangler said:
Some of the guys take themselves too seriously. When I started the thread I admited I liked him but got caught up on all the negatives the media and posters here kept going on about. Now, I never thought we’d get him because I was convinced Cleveland would snatch him up. It once did I mention “I told you so” or “I was right.” I’m convinced most posters only read the thread title and let their elevated estrogen get the best of them.

Anyway, I was wrong in believing the negative hype and for a second thinking we made a mistake since Watson didn’t really look that good during preseason. Then came the second half of the opener and the rest is history.
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After re-reading your initial post on the subject, the benefit of the doubt I gave you was incorrect. You say that you felt like an idiot for believing other "posters" when they were critical of Watson. In other words, you believe the other members of this board that questioned Watson's abilities are idiots. Sounds like stirring of the pot, especially when you don't say who these so called idiots are.

At any rate, we all have a small sample size of Watson as a pro. I love his potential, I hope he continues the upwards trend. Would it surprise me if he didn't live up to that potential, of course not. I'd have to be an idiot right now to bet my life savings on him. Feel free to spin that any which way you (or anyone else) like.
 
I haven’t bothered to read this thread, but I do wonder how many revisionist historians have bubbled their way to the top. :)
 
Texansballer74 said:
This is a fun thread too me. When the OP started this thread I already knew how the majority would respond. We've all been on here for years, therefore, we should know one another by now. Especially since it's only a hand full of us chiming on a regular.
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This thread is a trip and I was genuinely surprised by the unexpected tenor of the thread. I was trying to find a meme that matched my thoughts on this thread....and some of the posters/comments

d84231cb58bf004253b1ba68cbf40245.jpg
 
No one here knew Watson would be this good, this soon. Even his most ardent supporters. Does that mean we all should apologize to Deshaun? I don’t know about that. Should we all thank the football gods the Texans got Watson? Hell yes.
 
Lucky said:
Should we all thank the football gods the Texans got Watson? Hell yes.
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Hell yeah.


Lucky said:
No one here knew Watson would be this good, this soon. Even his most ardent supporters. Does that mean we all should apologize to Deshaun? I don’t know about that.
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To answer YOUR question: Not knowing exactly how good Watson would be is the silliest requirement for making an accurate assessment of a player's skillset possible.

It creates a false dichotomy. It equates the people with the correct pre-draft assessment of Watson skillset in with those that don't....based purely on the false requirement of "knowing exactly how good Watson would be" as the sole determinant of proper assessment. And that's the most random and arbitrary bar to set.....unless its just another means of deflecting away from admitting being wrong....which is okay. There were people that had correct assessments and there were people that had incorrect assessment draft assessment same thing happens with any other conversation on a message board.

But lets be real for a second. Is this the first "gladly admit you were wrong/ gladly eat crow" thread that this board has ever seen?

I am not the creator of the thread and personally I didn't think the thread was a good idea precisely because I figured a reaction like this was a possible outcome.

I remember the tenor of the "discussion" about Watson pre-draft and remember that people got so wrapped in it that being "right" became more important then Watson actually being good.

Maybe I'm wrong but I posted on several football message boards and these types of "gladly eat crow thread/ gladly admit I was wrong about X" threads are common place and are fun celebration when the player they were wrong about turns out to be good.​

But, for whatever reason some have a sensitivity when it comes to admitting being wrong about Watson....and that's okay...it's actually kind of amusing and but if people are gonna reinvent their positions, opinion and comments they have to know and accept that people that remember their actually statements are gonna point out their...ahem...inconsistencies in their memory.

But its all good.
 
edromeo said:
To answer YOUR question: Not knowing exactly how good Watson would be is the silliest requirement for making an accurate assessment of a player's skillset possible.

It creates a false dichotomy. It equates the people with the correct pre-draft assessment of Watson skillset in with those that don't....based purely on the false requirement of "knowing exactly how good Watson would be" as the sole determinant of proper assessment. And that's the most random and arbitrary bar to set.....unless its just another means of deflecting away from admitting being wrong....which is okay. There were people that had correct assessments and there were people that had incorrect assessment draft assessment same thing happens with any other conversation on a message board.
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"Knowing how good Watson would be" (you added the word 'exactly' which was never implied) is the only determinant in properly assessing Watson or any other prospect. How else can you assess a draft pick besides good or bad performance? Their timeliness to meetings? The real false dichotomy is interpreting and translating all Watson pre-season doubts into projections of abject failure. Everyone here knew he was one of the top qb prospects with prospects of at least some success, but the question was where he would fall on the spectrum of "how good he would be" and were there prospects that could be better? For those that projected abject failure -- great, eat some crow and be happy you were wrong. For those that felt another prospect would have been better -- the juries still out but Watson has a big leg up. The fact that Watson has surpassed expectations of even his most ardent supporters makes all of us wrong -- just different degrees of wrong.
 
Honestly I knew the young man was special. I also knew he was a day one starting QB just like Manning and several other day one starters. The young man in college showed me that it factory.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Honestly I knew the young man was special. I also knew he was a day one starting QB just like Manning and several other day one starters. The young man in college showed me that it factory.
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Well ****, if he has the factory, tell him that we need more players like him coming out on the assembly line...mainly to replace the people in front of him and behind him.
 
Max said:
"Knowing how good Watson would be" (you added the word 'exactly' which was never implied) is the only determinant in properly assessing Watson or any other prospect. How else can you assess a draft pick besides good or bad performance? Their timeliness to meetings?
​
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Lol, y'all really going to die on that hill and are willing to go to anything length for what? Just so you can save face with who?

Now you guys are trying to purposefully shift the goal posts and conflate the issue being discussed here.

Having a proper assessment isn't about prediction. Assessment is about assessment.
For example: Pre-draft opinion that Watson weak arm.

This opinion is either right or wrong it has absolutely nothing to do with prediction. This whole prediction aspect is just some fictional requirement you guys are throwing out there to shift focus.

But you guys already know this, lol.

So again, "knowing" how good Watson would be has nothing to do with the current discussion.

This discussion is about right/wrong pre-draft opinions, statements and viewpoints about Watson's skillset.

Everyone remembers what the comments were pre-draft. Everyone knows that a bunch of posters and pundits had WRONG assessments and opinions about Watson.
​
Max said:
...Everyone here knew he was one of the top qb prospects with prospects of at least some success, but the question was where he would fall on the spectrum of "how good he would be" and were there prospects that could be better?......The fact that Watson has surpassed expectations of even his most ardent supporters makes all of us wrong -- just different degrees of wrong.
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Whatever floats your boat. But what you are doing here is a bunch of mental gymnastics and reinvention.

But, just for the heck of it to meet YOUR invented random standard of being wrong about Watson I'll throw in.

Despite (imho) informative posts of evidence (stats, links, gifs etc) that refuted the a lot of the popular misconceptions expressed about Watson (i.e. that he was inaccurate, weak armed, 1 read and take-off QB, poor deep ball passer, came from a spread offense that didn't have pro-passing concepts, that he wouldn't be ready to start right away, that he didn't earn the right to play over Savage, has a slow release, Watson didn't look ready and that lol read-option was figured out etc). I said from the start that Watson was my highest rated QB in this draft class.

But I will now happily issue Watson my apology for, lol, not knowing how good he would be.


Here are some of my posts about Watson in this forum:
edromeo said:
J/c

Newcomer to the board. Love football NFL and college and the draft. Amatuer fantasy football show host and armchair scout. Focus on DBs and QBs.

I ended up on this message board due to my curiosity about how Watson will turn out. Scouted by charting games of the 2017 QB class and came away with Watson as both my favorite and highest graded QB.

I believe Watson can make the transition to the NFL and specifically to O'Brien's offense because of his decisiveness. I think a lot of the draft media either miss, don't mention or under value this trait. Watson has the ability to throw the ball quick both from a mental stand point due to decision making and by functionally/mechanically having a quick release. According to PFF Watson got rid of the ball in 2.11s from snap to throw which was 6th fastest in the NCAA.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-3-stats-that-define-deshaun-watsons-game/
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edromeo said:


He is able to get the ball out of his hands that quickly because he is decisive in his reads and because he has a quick release. Sports Science had Watson's release timed at: .35s which was fastest between him Trubisky and Kizer....(they also comp it to Aaron Rodgers).


Quick decision making and quick release allowed him to keep his/Clemson's sack totals low which is huge in the NFL.

He's not always right (no QB is) but its the decisiveness that I like. When Watson gets to the top of his drop back the ball is coming out on time. After watching tape of Mahomes, Kizer and Webb it was a welcome site to watch a QB with good footwork and good mechanics that threw the ball on time and didn't bail from the pocket unnecessarily.

I'm curious to watch how it all plays out with Watson because there seemed to be a lot of groupthink from draft media about his game that was parroted but imho didn't match his tape or even the advanced metrics e.g. knock on his deep of accuracy despite being 6th in NCAA or knocks on his overall accuracy despite his adjusted comp% being 3rd in NCAA.
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edromeo said:
Good post and good questions. I think people stances can get lost in spirited discussion of Watson/Watson's play.

Savage is OB's guy. He played well in preseason.

He was named the starter early, there was no QB competition. Watson wasn't groomed to be the starter. e.g. Not getting many 1st team reps until before the 3rd preseason game but faced 2nd team defense in his 1st start.
OB has a comfort level with Savage that makes it easier on OB when it comes to gameplanning and calling plays because Savage knows more of the offense.

Its moot now.

Watson is a rookie and naturally doesn't execute OB's standard offense as well as Savage does right now.
But I think Watson's skillset allows an offensive coordinator to scheme up an offense that can be as productive if not more productive then an offense with Savage right now.
I think Watson's accuracy is fine. I would agree that he missed some throws in preseason, but nothing out of the normal range. Like with any QB he needs to improve his accuracy/ball placement. And when you go back to college and look at his advanced stats he was above average...well you can look it up...everyone has there own opinions. I would like to see Watson improve his front foot strike and forward weight transfer to drive the ball with more velocity. He reminds me of a Bill Walshesque finesse passer at times he almost needs to bring some Brett Favre 'grip it and rip mentality. I also think it's crucial that Watson needs to start faster/get locked in sooner no wasted plays. He was a slow starter in college and could be a bit reckless at the start of games. The stats bear this out, most of his turnovers came early in games as opposed to the 2nd half and 4th qtrs where he was money.

His run threat, like other QB that provide a run threat, has a proven positive impact on the running game and the offense as a whole. His run threat as part of the run game via bootlegs, read-option, rpo's holds backside contain, backside pursuit and it helps standardize what types of coverages can be used. He can also maintain drives by avoiding sacks and converting 3rd downs to extend drives.

And I think that Watson would reach Savage's level of execution faster if he was being groomed and coached as the starter and ultimately I believe that Watson progress is being held back by not starting.

Savage will have the chance to keep Watson on the bench by playing well and winning games. But I wonder what will happen if Savage doesn't play well?
Its going to be interesting to watch what happens with w/ the Texans and Watson. I wish you guys good luck.
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​
 
Carr Bombed said:
Well ****, if he has the factory, tell him that we need more players like him coming out on the assembly line...mainly to replace the people in front of him and behind him.
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That's the job of our new trustee GM and Bill O'Brien. Remember Obrien dismantled the offensive line so that he can implement his theory of being able to play every position.
 
edromeo said:
Lol, y'all really going to die on that hill and are willing to go to anything length for what? Just so you can save face with who?

Now you guys are trying to purposefully shift the goal posts and conflate the issue being discussed here.

Having a proper assessment isn't about prediction. Assessment is about assessment.
For example: Pre-draft opinion that Watson weak arm.

This opinion is either right or wrong it has absolutely nothing to do with prediction. This whole prediction aspect is just some fictional requirement you guys are throwing out there to shift focus.

But you guys already know this, lol.

So again, "knowing" how good Watson would be has nothing to do with the current discussion.

This discussion is about right/wrong pre-draft opinions, statements and viewpoints about Watson's skillset.

Everyone remembers what the comments were pre-draft. Everyone knows that a bunch of posters and pundits had WRONG assessments and opinions about Watson.​
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Painting with a rather broad brush aren't you? Are you lumping the entire board with one poster's comments or are you referring to a few individuals only? I don't think Everyone on this board has ever agreed about anything, much less Watson.

A different opinion about possibilities doesn't necessarily mean a totally contradictory viewpoint
​


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