Andre Johnson not even best WR in the state of Texas?

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Tailgate, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. Tailgate

    Tailgate Fall of Hame

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,178
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Houston, TX - Born and raised
    KC Joyner goes big in this article comparing Miles Austin vs. Andre Johnson. I think the comments at the end of the article are pretty accurate in describing the piece as a whole. ITS CRAP.


    Link:
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=joyner_kc&id=5398251
     
  2. JWarren14

    JWarren14 Beer Me

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    Galleria
    Via KC Joyner ESPN Insider
    Link
    If you don't have a link:

    "One of the methods that former college football coach Bear Bryant used to settle positional battles early in his coaching career was the "challenge system." This allowed any player to call for a one-on-one battle with a starter. The two would go head-to-head in a variety of areas (blocking, tackling, receiving, etc.) to see who was the best at executing the key responsibilities of the position. The winner would claim the prize as starter.

    If such a system existed in the world of statistical analyses, there would be many potential challengers to Houston Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson for the title of best wide receiver in the NFL. Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss and Reggie Wayne all would serve as worthy foes for Johnson, but surprisingly enough, none of them would rank as the No. 1 contender.

    The real competition for Johnson as the NFL's premier wideout comes from within the state in which he plays pro football. Many might not consider Miles Austin to be an elite wideout yet, but he actually had a better set of metrics than any of the three other aforementioned contenders this past season.

    So did he do enough last season to beat the perceived champion for the belt?

    To find out, let's do it like Bryant's players and run a 10-stage challenge. We'll compare both Austin's and Johnson's yards per attempt (YPA) metrics in 10 main receiving categories. At the end, whoever has the most victories will win the honor of best wide receiver in the NFL.

    A full chart follows the breakdown by category.

    Short passes (thrown downfield 10 yards or fewer)
    Austin's 9.4 YPA topped Johnson's 6.0 mark by a 50 percent margin. That is enough to give him a win, but it is also worth noting that Austin didn't just beat Johnson in this metric but also led the entire league in this category.
    Challenge status: Austin 1, Johnson 0

    Medium passes (11-19 yards downfield)
    OK, so Austin wins on dinks and dunks, but can he beat Johnson on the deep out, deep in and comeback routes that make up the bulk of the medium-depth patterns? Not exactly, but he didn't lose to him, either. Austin and Johnson both gained 12.1 YPA on medium routes last season.
    Challenge status: Austin 1, Johnson 0, 1 tie

    Deep passes (20-29 yards downfield)
    For most receivers, the deeper the pass, the more likely it is they would lose to Johnson, but Austin won this category as well. His 20.3 mark ranked ninth in the league and nearly doubled Johnson's 10.9 YPA.
    Challenge status: Austin 2, Johnson 0, 1 tie

    Bomb-length passes (30 or more yards downfield)
    Go patterns are the kings of this route depth, and this is where Johnson starts to make his stand. His 26.1 YPA was seventh-best in the league overall and second-best among wideouts with 10 or more bomb attempts. It also nearly doubled Austin's 13.8 YPA mark.
    Challenge status: Austin 2, Johnson 1, 1 tie

    Vertical (all medium, deep and bomb passes)
    Johnson's lead in the bomb-pass category helped vault him over Austin in this all-encompassing category, but not by much. Johnson posted a 14.5 YPA mark, ranking 10th in the league, while Austin checked in with a 13.7 YPA total (which ranked 15th).
    Challenge status: Austin 2, Johnson 2, 1 tie

    Overall YPA (all route depths)
    Johnson's bomb-pass prowess helped him close enough ground to win the vertical category, but it wasn't enough to overcome Austin here. Austin's 11.2 overall YPA mark ranked fourth-best and was more than 2 yards ahead of Johnson's 9.9 YPA total.
    Challenge status: Austin 3, Johnson 2, 1 tie

    In the portion of this challenge based on depth of the pass route, Austin is the winner -- but distance alone is not the only indicator of how good a receiver is. Another way to measure receiving excellence is to see how well each wideout did when facing varying levels of competition.

    I went through the breakdown charts I did for every game from the 2009 season and pulled out the plays on which a receiver faced a cornerback. I then assigned color-coded grades to the cornerbacks based on their 2009 YPA totals (which can be found in the KC Joyner Metricmania section in the 2010 ESPN The Magazine fantasy football preview).

    Against cornerbacks who yield YPAs of 7 yards or fewer on average (red-rated CBs)
    Austin was hardly fazed by elite competition, as he posted 12.0 YPA against them. Johnson's 8.0 YPA in this category ranked 18th in the league but didn't keep up with Austin's total.
    Challenge status: Austin 4, Johnson 2, 1 tie

    Against CBs who yield 7-9 YPA on average (yellow-rated CBs)
    Austin put up 9.8 YPA here versus Johnson's 6.9. Another win for Austin.
    Challenge status: Austin 5, Johnson 2, 1 tie

    Against CBs who yield 9 or more YPA on average (green-rated CBs)
    Johnson was very good at dominating overmatched cornerbacks, something shown by his 14.6 YPA total here. He wasn't as good as Austin and his 17.7 YPA mark, however.
    Challenge status: Austin 6, Johnson 2, 1 tie

    Against CBs in general
    With wins in all three color-coded cornerback categories, it is obvious Austin won this part of the challenge as well (13.4 YPA versus Johnson's 9.9 mark), but just as was the case on short passes, it is worth noting that Austin ranked No. 1 in the league in this metric.

    It also means he won the competition by a score of 7-2-1."

    I am calling BS! We'll see this year when we have a running game. The Giants had an awful defense last year.
     
  3. rmartin65

    rmartin65 I'm Score

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    7,999
    Likes Received:
    447
    Guy is an *****. Just watch them play, that will tell you what you need to know.
     
  4. GuerillaBlack

    GuerillaBlack Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    9,216
    Likes Received:
    622
    Location:
    Montrose
    I can't believe people pay to read that garbage.
     
  5. eriadoc

    eriadoc Texan-American

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    19,005
    Likes Received:
    1,861
    When Austin puts up that sort of YPA on 115 catches, then we'll talk. Until then, KC Joyner is a tool.
     
  6. disaacks3

    disaacks3 Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,217
    Likes Received:
    895
    Location:
    Spring, TX
    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Miles Austin ACROSS from Andre, but INSTEAD of him...never!
     
  7. OzzO

    OzzO .. and then?

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    7,179
    Likes Received:
    295
    Location:
    northside
    How 'bout the comparison, "Reciever NFL coach / owner would rather have on their team if had to choose between them."



    nuff said.
     
  8. Ryan

    Ryan THIS YEAR

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    5,343
    Likes Received:
    285
    Location:
    Beaumont,Tx
    Miles Austin also doesn't have to play against the likes of Revis and Asomugha once every 4 years. The DBs are overall much better in the AFC than in the NFC, Miles Austin hardly demands double coverage like AJ does, and he has only done it in one season, while AJ has been doing it for 7. So what's this tool trying to prove?
     
  9. Brisco_County

    Brisco_County Texans worthy

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,614
    Likes Received:
    337
    Location:
    Austin
    Whenever teams play the Cowboys, how many defensive coordinators are losing sleep thinking about containing Miles Austin?
     
    BIG TORO likes this.
  10. BIG TORO

    BIG TORO TERADACTYL #23

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    310
    Location:
    Sugar Land, TX
    :facepalm: These two guys should not even be in the same sentence!
     
  11. jaayteetx

    jaayteetx Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Albuquerque,NM
    Just trying to get hits from all the cowgirl fans out there, what gm in their right mind would take Austin over AJ? Not a single damn one. Useless ass article.
     
  12. redwhiteANDblue

    redwhiteANDblue Color of Texans

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    Sugar Land
  13. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,685
    Likes Received:
    222
    Location:
    Houston
    My man, I agree with a thousand percent !
    And especially some of these writers on ESPNs payroll. Talk about a bunch of armchair QB types who know nothing about football. To me it's almost insulting that they pitch me, solict me for monetary payment for their "football knowledge".
     
  14. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    9,946
    Likes Received:
    518
    Austin has a lot better help around him.

    Better:
    O-Line
    WRs
    RBs
    TEs
    (you can debate QB I guess)
     
  15. Tailgate

    Tailgate Fall of Hame

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    3,178
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    Houston, TX - Born and raised
    I actually used to enjoyreading Joyner's the fifth down blog in the NY times online from time to time...
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
  16. HoustonFrog

    HoustonFrog Chitown Frog

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    785
    Location:
    Chicago
    As a massive Cowboy fan I don't even think Austin is close to AJ right now. First AJ does it every year and not only does it but does it consistently. I think Austin has that potential but he has a couple more years to prove it and I don't think he will get the numbers with the teammates he has. Coordinators do look for him though. When I was at the Boys/Minny playoff game last year I could see the whole field from up high and they doubled Austin all day and left Roy E one on one...worked.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
    BIG TORO likes this.
  17. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,685
    Likes Received:
    222
    Location:
    Houston
    This year I think the Texans now have parity at running back vs Dallas, and
    regarding the other offensive position groups the Texans are equivalent or superior to Dallas talent wise.
     
  18. Dutchrudder

    Dutchrudder COOL BEANS!

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Location:
    Houston
    Name one GM in the league who would trade as much for Miles Austin as they would for AJ. Just one. Nobody? Ok.
     
  19. jaayteetx

    jaayteetx Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Albuquerque,NM
    A LOT better, really? Lets see, Owen Daniels is a top 5 TE in this league. Granted he is coming off an injury, but seeing how he has performed well in the past coming off the same injury it doesn't worry me. Our WRs, I would take over Dallas's every day of the week. O-line, Dallas has huge questions at the LT spot this year. Granted they have better interior linemen. I would say Dallas has a slight advantage on paper at RB right now but I could easily see our guys outperforming them this year.
     
  20. jaayteetx

    jaayteetx Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Albuquerque,NM
    Al Davis?
     
    False Start likes this.

Share This Page