Amobi Okoye.... Frank Okam... I ain't mad at ya...

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by thunderkyss, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I was late to the game because of a big pile up on ih-10 Saturday, so I've been basing my comments on what I heard on the radio, and what I've read on the boards.

    I finally was able to watch the first half myself yesterday, thanks to NFLN.

    & I'm not mad at Frank Okam or Amobi Okoye. Neither played exceptional, but they didn't play as horribly as I expected.

    If you want to know who I do blame for yesterday's fiasco.... it's Gary Kubiak & Alex Gibbs.

    If you watched our DTs, and their DTs, there really wasn't much difference. The OL took them both out of the game. The difference was the Saints were better at getting to and blocking the second level.

    We didn't help matters with our penetrating defense. Amobi was getting into his gap... but that's doing half the job for the OLmen. It doesn't matter how big you are, how talented you are, or how high you were drafted. If you're trying to shoot past someone, & all that person wants to do, is move you laterall..... it's over once you allow him to push on your shoulder, your side, or your hip.... there is nothing you can do but go sideways.

    That's what happened to our DTs, and that's what happened to their DTs.

    Demeco was keying in on the Full back. He was in position to take the FB head on. When the HB broke off his route, Demeco was out of the play. Simply because of where he was. Again, that is what is supposed to happen in a ZBS. That's what happened to our MLB, and that's what happened to their MLB. Biggest difference, was that Mike Bell has much, much better vision than Steve Slaton. Bell has good speed, good toughness, good burst, but excellent vision. If there was a cut back lane, or a seam, he was going to find it. Steve..... if it wasn't on his left side, he wasn't going to see it. It looks habitual, and could spell trouble, but it seems that he only broke plays to the left side. Even when pushing further to the right, or breaking to the right would have produced more gain. Because he is so fast, and can accelerate the way he does, he made good gains. But if he can see what's going on around him, and not make up his mind till the last minute, he would be very, very dangerous.

    If you watch their OL, and I hope like hell that our starting 5 are studying their starting 5.... on run plays, where they double team a DT, or DE.... the help guy pushes, then releases. Almost like a chip, to get the defense moving in the right direction. Once that motion is started, it simply does not take two guys to push a third in a lateral motion. Our bodies are made to provide strength and resistance in a forward motion. We can't resist when pushed to the side.

    Or, if one of the OL found themselves with no one to block, they moved up field, and found someone. Our guys were very slow moving to the second level, whether they had a reason or not.

    & when they got to the second level, they blocked someone, & didn't try to merely get in someone's way like we did.

    Which brings up another point. When their RB was 40 yards down the field, all 5 of their OLmen were standing up. Our guys are lying on the ground when our RB is still in the backfield. We through ourselves at their feet, very early in the run, and their LBs, and DEs jump right over us. They aim their shoulder pads at some spot mid-thigh and above, drive into our palyers, and take them out of the play....... that is if they have to cut, which is a last chance kinda thing.

    There was one play, where Meachum took out Mario by driving his pads into Mario's thighs. Mario managed to stay on his feet, but Mike Bell was already 46 yards and a touchdown away by the time Mario regained his composure.

    Buster Davis was the only guy on our team that did a good job keeping the OLmen off him.

    It wasn't our DTs that failed, it was pretty much everything else. Mario & Okam held their ends up pretty well. If the play was going to either of them they held the end, and forced the play's back inside. Other wise their would have been no reason to cut back.

    But when the play was run away from Smith.... there wasn't any "scheme" to keep him away from the ball. He just wasn't fast enough to get their. They had to plan something, to keep Mario off their guy in the backfield.

    Or CBs need to learn to watcht the QB first and foremost. They played so far off the ball, they should have had plenty of time to anticipate the throw, and make a move on the ball. Maybe we're saving that for the regular season.

    But their OC did a much better job designing plays that challenged our young Secondary. Our guys got crossed up a few times because of pick routes they ran. Then there were several plays were our guy, like Brice McCain had to chose the under route, or the over. Which-ever he chose, Brees took the other one. Manning has done this to us for years.... you'd think we'd learn by now.

    I truly think our Recievers are amoung the best in the league. Then you throw in our TEs, our FBs, and our HBs.... you'd think we would be able to do some of the same things on offense. But we don't.

    I also think Schaub can be great.... if he had a great OC.

    Anyway, that's my official 2 cents. Defensively, not a whole lot to worry about. I don't think we'd have this kind a problem with most running games. Not many teams are this balanced, and this stacked with talent.

    Offensively, we've got a coaching issue. We're running a ZBS that should bring the talent requirement way down. But our gains have been because of individual talent, whether we're talking about Slaton, Chris Brown, Matt Schaub, or Andre.....

    Next week, when you watch the Vikings, don't watch to see how many rushing yards we have against them. Watch to see how their DTs aren't the ones tackling Slaton. I think we're pretty good at that part of the game. It doesn't matter how big & strong they are... we'll get them moving sideways.

    & that brings up another point. if You're going to watch the N.O. Saints offense again, watch the OL foot work. They guy getting the help on the double team. Watch how he repositions his legs & feet, so that he can handle the job when his help leaves....

    there were just so many things that we aren't doing, that we should be doing, with the "Gurus" we've got.
     
  2. Malloy

    Malloy Site Contributor

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    Interesting analysis, thanks for looking through the game again, and thanks for writing this up, much appreciated!
     
  3. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    Anyway, that's my official 2 cents. Defensively, not a whole lot to worry about. I don't think we'd have this kind a problem with most running games. Not many teams are this balanced, and this stacked with talent.
    **************************************
    Appreciate the time and effort and all of the detail you put into that post Thunderkyss. Thanks. But I did a copy&paste on that one sentecne from your remarks because I'm just not completely reassured by that remark.
    I watched he game on TV and I saw Okoye being easily moved aside on rushing plays. For me, that's a "big problem".
    I'm still unsure how you could dismiss it so lightly ? And I'm concerned we'll face teams in our own division who have more formidable OLines than NOLA does ?
     
  4. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    Okoye was awful. Saying anything else is disingenuous or not credible, so I think you are good on this one.
     
  5. HOU-TEX

    HOU-TEX Ah, Football!

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    Good ol TK!

    Okoye was, by far, the worst player on defense. The dude should be ashamed after putting a display like that on film.
     
  6. JDizzle

    JDizzle I'm a dude

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    Sure thing pal ...
     
  7. Porky

    Porky Hall of Fame

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    I must have watched a different game then he did. :gun:
     
  8. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    it's easy to run the ball when nobody touches you. On a side note, there were supposed to be DT's in that hole. Someone just needs to remind TK. :fans:
     


  9. Texan_Bill

    Texan_Bill Subscribed Contributor

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    Was there a game Saturday night?

    If so, the one that I thought I saw didn't play out anything like what TK described. I thought I saw a game in which Okam and Okoye were pushed around like rag dolls. A game where I saw a mediocre running back - that we cut, rush 10 times for 100 yards?
     
  10. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    and finish with a clean jersey.
     
  11. Mr. White

    Mr. White H-Town Beatdown

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    Actually, I understand the Nigerian spelling of his name to be Am0bi Ok0ye. It means "nothing in the middle."
     
    HOU-TEX, Vinny, Wolf and 4 others like this.
  12. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    :spit: nice
     
  13. HOU-TEX

    HOU-TEX Ah, Football!

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    Agreed.

    You know, when I had a bad game or scrimmage in HS and College I used to dread going to the film room the next day. Both the players and the coaches would let you know how bad you goofed up.

    I'd have to think it'd be worse in the NFL, right? I just can't see the players and coaches not doing or saying anything about Okoye being bulldozed time after time.
     
  14. Porky

    Porky Hall of Fame

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    Mike Bell has better vision than Slaton? I can't go there either. Slaton has excellent vision. I'll try to watch if he has a tendency to pop left, but almost all players have tendencies. He's definetely a better RB than Bell overall although Bell impressed me. Hell, Slaton still might still be running if he was playing on the Saints offense Sat night.

    And our tackles were pushed around with ease all night, and the LB's sucked too. I see Kubiak praised Ryans but to my naked eye I didn't see anything special out of him either. Might have been the best of a bad lot, but that's like saying I'd rather eat dirt than shit. It ain't saying much.
     
  15. HOU-TEX

    HOU-TEX Ah, Football!

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    Ron "are you going to eat that" Dayne could've run through the holes Bell was given. I'm sure most here know my stance on Dayne, so that's saying something.
     
  16. Texan_Bill

    Texan_Bill Subscribed Contributor

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    Well hell, you could've run through those holes. Now, that's really saying something.
    :worm:
     
  17. HOU-TEX

    HOU-TEX Ah, Football!

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    It might've taken 10 minutes, but I could've the way Texans were laying all over the field playing possum.
     
  18. Spike

    Spike Veteran

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    I don't know enough about x's and o's to support that detailed of analysis, but it did appear to my untrained eye that the DTs were completely out of the picture on those big runs.

    However, I did notice a couple of times where the run play appeared to be "contained", but the the Saint's RB was able to get past the one player that was in position to make a tackle. Most of the time, it appeared to me that either a CB or safety was in position, near the line of scrimmage, to make the tackle - but just whiffed. I definited saw Quinn miss a few.

    Can anyone else speak to this?
     
  19. GP

    GP Go Texans!

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    The first Saints run play of the game was a nice run that made it appear that we got blown off the line. Because we did.

    I watched that first play over and over last night. Ran out of time, so all I saw was the first series for both teams.

    They had five olinemen and a TE lined up on the right side of their line.

    They had a fullback back there, off-set IIRC. The fullback ran through the line first, and one of our players keyed on him in case he had the ball.

    (In my best Ron "Jaws" Jaworsky voice) When the play happened, a WR had motioned around the halfback and it appeared that it might be a trick play. This froze the LBs at the snap.

    So now you have frozen LBs, accounting for the end-around by a WR or a wildcat play of some sort, and you have seven offensive guys (blockers) power blocking through a defensive line of four or five men.

    The fullback gets into the level of the LBs, and it was easy sledding for Mike Bell with the hole that was made.

    I fault our pre-snap alignment. When there's a fullback back there, and a TE in a three-point stance at the end of the oline, and a halfback that far back into the backfield behind a fullback, you need to get up on the line with all your defensive players.

    But then again, we're talking Drew Brees and some pretty good WRs out there at the same time. So you pick your poison, I guess.

    On that play, I think we got caught snoozing on the pre-snap alignment and didn't put ourselves in position to stop it. I bet the Saints coaches and players were licking their chops when they saw our positioning on that play.
     
  20. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I'm not saying Okoye wasn't the worst player on the field Saturday night, well, yes I am, Smith was the worst player, but that's a different story. But our DTs didn't look any worse than their DTs. Even Okam got pushed side to side, but since he also got upfield, the Running back was forced to take the play back inside.

    Look at the game stats, The DTs & DEs didn't make a lot of tackles. Sedrick Ellis has 2 assist, even though he played the entire first half. Remi Ayodele has 1 and 1.... Do you think the Saints are crying because their DTs got pushed around? Of course not, Even though Slaton gained 5 yards per carry. He had to work his but off and run around the pile of bodies we call an offensive line. The only reason they had huge holes to run to, was because their OL made good blocks at the second level. Ours never got to the second level, or failed to stop the LBs & DBs from getting to the LOS.

    It doesn't matter to me whether the blame is on Okoye & Okam, or Barber & Adibi... it's all the same, and needs to be fixed. I just think there's more opportunity for improvement at the LB & Safety level. & replacing our DTs wouldn't have had much affect if they had the same penetration philosophy.

    Next week, we'll see Amobi shooting the gap, getting into the backfield, and causing havoc..... some people here are going to say he played better.. when he didn't. He'll be playing an offensive line that is more susceptive to his kind of play. They'll be trying to push him North/South, and he's going to slip past them. Okam's strength will help him not be pushed North/South, where it doesn't help at all, from being pushed East/West.

    If you get a chance to watch the game again, instead of trying to find out what we did wrong, look to see what they did right, and why what worked for them, didn't work for us. It wasn't that their DTs played anybetter, because they were taken out of the play just as much as ours were.
     

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