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Acquisitions of value

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Seegara, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Seegara

    Seegara Hall of Fame

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    Recent additions to the team have proved to be of great value. Tunsil, Stills, Hyde... Makes you wonder who's pulling the strings. There has to be some new intelligence at work, for we can contrast these with disasters from the past: Ed Reed, Osweiler,.. Who is making the difference?
     
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  2. powda

    powda You forgot the briefcase!

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    Definitely a swing in more aggressive moves. Is it Cal is it the lack of GM? Perhaps an x factor?

    Personally I think it's hard to say yet.
     
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  3. TheKDog

    TheKDog Hall of Fame

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    It only took way overpaying to make it happen.

    I wonder why the rest of the nfl isn't too high on this strategy?
     
  4. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

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    Then value is the wrong word
     
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  5. Corrosion

    Corrosion Idealist Staff Member

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    Your two earlier examples - Os and Reed are kinda poor ones as they were both forced upon the coaching staff - One by the owner (Reed) in making a splash , the other by Rick Smith(Oz) - His take on the QB position is an interesting one , something we discussed in another thread - QB's and that 2nd contract cost limiting what you can put around them.
     
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  6. Texazan

    Texazan Our HOF 34

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    My theory is BOB has harnessed the ability to time travel and he’s seen that the world is ending very soon so he went back, convinced Cal to see for himself and they’ve decided no need to hold onto any draft picks....or they were just due to hit on a few gambles finally
     
  7. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    Depends on how you look at it. You can draft a rookie and hope they aren’t a bust, odds actually aren’t great on this, and that they will be an impact player quick enough to help, odds are even worse on this, or you can spend more in draft capital and get a proven player. You can’t do this with every player because the contracts would get way out of hand but for a few key positions those draft picks are not as valuable as the player.

    To many on here over value draft picks because the draft is fun for them and when picks are traded away they don’t have as much fun on draft day so they claim we aren’t getting value. Tunsil was taken 13 over all and actually was expected much sooner but the video surfaced. Since then he has proven a stud at a position that is becoming second only to QB cost wise, so yeah two 1st for him was great value.
     
  8. DocBar

    DocBar Hall of Fame

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    I place a high value on draft picks because drafting and grooming players has a much better track record for long term success on the field, and with the salary cap, than overpaying FAs. FWIW, I'm much better with trading draft picks for a good player than I am overpaying in FA. The NFL FA is about as much a roll of the dice as the NFL draft is.
    IMHO, of course.
     
  9. Dejaview

    Dejaview All Pro

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    What I like about these new players is that they largely plugged strategic holes with value. This team appears to be at point where we can now add new players to make us more elite rather than just adding players to “catch up”. It also gives the FO a baseline quality level that we don’t want to see eroded. Texans are starting to get a system in place and a player identity that should help in the draft process going forward...like yep, NE. Like it or not OB just might be a better GM than coach.
     
  10. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Pro BS'er

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    I wouldn’t call Tunsil “value” .. HOU was held over the coals on that deal and Tunsil will need to develop into an all pro to make it an even trade or even close to a “value” acquisition.

    Everyone is in love with Hyde because he’s cheap soon as he asks for money the mob will turn. Are we the dollar general fans of the NFL? Lol
     
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  11. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    Here's the thing about Tunsil, what would the Texans have had to pay to move up as far as 13 to draft a LT and that was after he had slid, imagine what it would have cost if that video hadn't come out and his projected number 1 or even top 5 had panned out? Everyone compares his value to Dillard but that's wrong, the actual comparison from the last draft is Johan Williams, anybody want to try and figure what it would have cost us to move up to get Williams?

    He was expensive no question and yeah they should have never let it get that far, though still don't know where and when they would have gotten anybody in the top 15 but that's the price you pay. His contract is going to be through the roof but again you are going to have that with any non-rookie LT, which a rookie LT wouldn't have helped us, after the Raiders paid Brown like an elite player and then turned around and made him a damn guard.
     
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  12. Rich Schmidt

    Rich Schmidt Myopicone

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    I think value is going to cause a debate here because most people think BOB is over paying even if we got a good player, and that is a debate on its own of lifting a proven player with draft capital and having to pay higher salary soon versus having draft picks that may work out and having cheaper assets. Truth is noone can win or lose the debate because we don't know if the picks work.

    The word I would use is immediate fit and production. It seems in the past the GM was getting guys that had potential, but we did not get it soon or at all. Now, they are getting guys like Hyde, Stills, Tunsil that are making a impact before knowing the playbook, so seems when the coach buys and eats the groceries, he gets stuff he likes and wants to munch sooner. Our salary cap enabled us to execute this strategy, I would not get used to it because we now have lost our picks and will soon likely not have the cap space with all the guys to tie up.

    As many have said, we should not have gotten to this point, but seems we plugged the real holes (minus CB), and started the shift to an offensive versus defensive identity. If the oline finally has depth, we can let the defense get refreshed a bit next year.
     
  13. Texansballer74

    Texansballer74 Hall of Fame

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    When your job is on the line most will definitely go all out to save it. That imo is whats going on over there on Kirby Drive.

    Now on to these players we acquired.

    Some people tend to act like we didn't try to acquire top free agents. The thing is during those attempts the situation just didn't play out. Now that we finally acquired a true LT. The situation kinda worked in our favor. The third party was willing to work with us. Unlike the other two situations in which they were free agents. Now the price was steep on all three those situation. This time around we were able to work out a deal because we were dealing with a team verse a player.

    Unfortunate circumstances landed us Carlos Hyde. If Miller doesn't go down with a season ending injury. We wouldn't have brought in Hyde. Duke on the other hand was in the works way before the injury. Plus he wanted out of his situation in Cleveland.

    The rumors were true about them going after another receiver. Again it came at a steep price but with the injury history of Fuller and Coutee. They had to go out of their way to pick up another deep threat who can take the top of the defense at any given moment. Stills was the perfect fit and Miami was very willing. Especially knowing we were in a desperate state.

    In conclusion:

    So far so good. These three additions are working out as planned. But whenever your job is hanging on by a thread, you have to throw caution to the wind and let it all hang out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  14. TheKDog

    TheKDog Hall of Fame

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    The value proposition will look worse once Tunsil signs his extension. Assuming he does sign one
     
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  15. maverick512000

    maverick512000 Hall of Fame

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    That's true for any player that signs a big money contract.
     
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  16. TheKDog

    TheKDog Hall of Fame

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    I think OBrien was desperate to save his job. So he made the future worse so this team can win 8-9 games again and his job is saved.

    He should have been already going all out to make the team good on a sustainable basis, but like he said, it's hard to find and develop olinemen. So he just overpaid for them
     
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  17. TheKDog

    TheKDog Hall of Fame

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    Not all teams have to overpay to keep their big money guys, sometimes they can come to a fair deal for both sides. I'm afraid that won't happen here with the leverage Tunsil has
     
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  18. Texansballer74

    Texansballer74 Hall of Fame

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    This was my thought as well. I've noticed some people don't want to talk about that part of the elephant in the room. The big IF

    I was wondering why they didn't try to work out a long time deal during that time. Maybe they are looking to see if things will work out first. Big time gamble because, if it does, Tunsil will want to be paid higher than what Brown got. In which made him the highest paid left tackle in the NFL.

    Then of course we might have tried to negotiate a deal but Tunsil camp said hold up. Gambling on himself, let's wait and see. Because if he do ball out like that, let the negotiations mill begin. Who will win the Tunsil sweepstakes.

    Next offseason will be interesting.
     
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  19. santo

    santo Hall of Fame

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    Seeing how the draft took place, we should have taken Jacobs or a CB. Or I would have been fine with Rashard Penny and/or Lockett for Clowney.

    Let's just hope with the moves they made, the Texans make it to the AFCCG or SB. lol
     
  20. Toro Bravo

    Toro Bravo Rookie

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    As acting GM, I think BOB is finally getting the type of players he wants that Smith and Gaine either didn't recognize or were unwilling to pay for. It is just a fail on Rick Smith's evaluation ability that Reed and Osweiler were acquired.

    We paid a steep price for the additions of Tunsil and Stills and even Duke - although I like all of these acquisitions. This got me thinking about the value of young experienced players vs high draft picks. I consider Tunsil and Stills our 1st round picks in 2020 and 2021 and a second in 2021. I actually prefer getting a known commodity vs a draft pick because you have a much better knowledge of the players ability and demeanor.

    Statistics indicate that 1st round draft picks are only a 53% chance of success based on Approximate Value (AV). A good definition of a solid first round pick is somebody who averages an Approximate Value each year of 5 or more. AV is a valuation statistic from Pro Football Reference, it is far from perfect, but at this level gives a vague indication of player success, especially when we will be comparing players across different positions.

    [​IMG]

    Would I want to give up a 1st round pick every year - Hell no. But I'm OK with it at certain positions, like QB and LT.
     

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