AARRRGGGH!!! Peyton Manning couldnt play behind our O-Line/playcalling

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by Jeffery, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    :brickwall
    Ok, I had to reset my password and get re-signed back up because all of this simplemindedness is KILLING ME!

    Only the simple minded or intellectually challenged need a single focal point for a failure or lack of performance. In almost EVERY SINGLE case, in EVERY environment, it is a COMBINATION of causes that lead to a perceived or real failure to achieve said objectives.

    I will start by saying I am not a Carr fan, and that I don't think he is the answer. That way the short-sighted of you will actually READ the following, instead of forming an opinion of what I am going to say immediately and jumping straight to the bottom.

    With that said, there isn't a QB in the game that could play behind our O-Line and offensive play calling right now except for maybe Vick... and maybe VY. (not proposing the VY debate at all). The reason I say that is because our O-line is basically a set of turnstiles for the defense on their way to the QB, and there is rarely ever an 'outlet" in the play for when the QB is under pressure. The only QB that could succeed in this offense is one that doubles as a running back like Vick and VY, providing the O-Line could provide him at least one lousy block to get him back to LOS.

    Have any of you people even watched the games?? When you have trouble getting into a three step drop before the defense is on you, it is NOT solely on the shoulders of the QB. The O-line has failed to protect, the play calling has failed to provide a quick outlet for the QB to throw to, and there is no threat of a run or the defense would not be rushing the passer every single play.

    Look at how long it took them in the Raiders game to control Dayne. Do you really think that it was big Ron Dayne that had a great game?? He did pretty good, and showed a lot of effort but it took that long for the defense to get out of the rush the passer mentality. They still had Carr's blood scent in their nostrils and forgot out to look for a RB. Dayne is a CAREER backup who has failed to catch on at any team in how many years??? They make him look like the second coming of the bus in his first game back. Good for him, but it says more about focus of the defense than it does about his performance.

    Rosenfels - Ok this one is a fun one. This guy has never succeeded ANYWHERE. Who was he backing up again in Miami?? I dont even need to say it. He has a couple games (pre-season) and you guys think he is Joe Montana. You are so eager to find something simple to blame the team's performance on. It is quite easy to blame Carr isn't it?? Quite convenient. So convenient it doesnt even require thought, or brains. Sage isn't a bad QB, but he is NOT a star. Any of you who actually saw the Titans game that you have based your opinion of him as the savior of our offense, would have noticed that the Titans let up a LOT in their defense. They thought he was gonna be running the ball, so weren't prepared for it when he passed. Look at the formations they were in.

    Back to the QB situation. What do you do to beat the Colts?? You pressure Manning. Simple, clean cut. You get pressure on him, he crumbles. That is why he has difficulty in the playoffs. He doesn't play well under pressure. Neither did Moon, or Marino. Heck the poster child QB from last year doesn't play well with defenders in his face, see his performance this year? (Roethlesburger). Not every QB can have the presence of a Joe Montana or Elway. Not every QB can run like a Vick or McNabb to elude pressure. You stick pretty much any QB in our offense right now and you would think they "suck". I don't care if Manning was in there, you guys would be calling for his head and blaming whoever it was that brought him here, calling them loser, etc.

    When the QB cannot get into a three step drop before the defense is on him, its not his fault. When Fred Weary (#70) is getting run over like a train hit him and literally flying backwards, its not the QB's fault. When Winston cant even find his man as he is running around him to the QB, its not the QB's fault. When the QB has the pocket collapse on him in under 3 seconds, and it collapses around him with no option for lateral movement, its not his fault. When the pocket collapses on him in 3-4 seconds and NOBODY picks it up and comes back for the dump and there is no option in the play calling for an outlet, its not the QB's fault. That QB Carr got rattled early, but nobody could have played in that offense as a QB that day. Not without a RB or some protection. He made errors just like the rest of the team. The rest of the team should share blame though in that -5 passing yards, along with him. Or is just too easy for your intellects to blame one person than realize we have a bigger problem???

    Carr does cause some of the sacks by holding onto the ball. He causes some of the batted passes and int's by staring down receivers. He doesn't inspire the O-line to protect him that well. But please oh please cease this boundless, groundless banter that HE is "THE" problem with our team, and our offense. That is just plain asinine. Absolutely ridiculous.

    Let me ask you another question. When an offense makes a fumble, because the defense forced it....was it a poor offense or great defense that caused the fumble?? If you are a newspaper editor or a MB junkie, its the offense that screwed up and they are horrible. Thats easier and more glamorous. Actually, to players its the defense that forced it, and they should get credit as a good play. The Raiders didnt drop any balls while they were running down the field. The Texans FORCED the fumbles by their tackling and going after the ball.

    Oh please oh please, dont you dare bring up Romo. Dallas and Houston are different animals. Dallas HAS an offensive line. Romo can go into a 5 step drop if he wants to. When the pocket collapses its not like the Houston pocket collapse where it implodes, he still can run out of it laterally. He still has movement. Dallas was a 9-7 team last year with a crappy QB? And before that they were still pretty good with that guy now playing in the Canadian league. They had a team before Romo, he is just surfing the wave that was already there and pulling off some better tricks. We don't have a wave to surf yet here in Houston, thanks to the past blunders in FA and the draft.

    This must be our American way. Like our political system. Republican OR Democrat, right or wrong, black or white. What about the rest of the ideas, graduation of blame, and other colors?? I REFUSE to believe that everyone in America thinks in a "template" that agrees with everything either the Republicans think or the Democrats think. The two party system is a ludicrous as the idea that in every argument one person is right and the other is wrong. It's just too ingrained and corrupt to be changed.

    Kinda like your football ideas eh?

    Can you tell all these posts irritated me???...just a bit? :)
     
    edo783 and santo like this.
  2. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    LOL Having the Manning in the house, would NOT turn the guys on our line into capable linemen. You get a small increase in performance with motivation and confidence, but maybe that would be enough to consistently get a 3 step drop in. You can have all the drive and motivation in the world, but without the talent it won't work. And that O-Line, especially with 3 starters out, doesnt have the talent. They were much better at the beginning of the year, but still not good.

    You would still need a running threat and some pass calling to slow them down (other than the screen and reverse).

    What he would bring is someone else who can call the plays. He may actually call a play that leaves him an outlet before he is smashed in that meat grinder we call an offensive line. Once he has passed to that outlet enough times, maybe the defense will back off the pass rush a bit enough to where he can get other passes in. Which brings us to the other problem. Maybe Carr can't call plays like Manning, but the coaches sure can. When it takes them 3 quarters to adjust, if ever, that is a problem. Not THE problem, but "a" problem. Remember there is more than one problem, there is more than right or wrong, and wow there are folks out there who agree with some of what the Democrats stand for and for some of what the Republicans stand for.

    Oh crap, I just forgot. Manning cannot play with pressure. When he gets folks in his face, or running him down from behind, his play is horrible. He goes from QB wizard to playing like a backup and making mistakes......almost (but not as bad as) our QB.

    Wonder what Carr could do in Indianapolis? With an O-Line, a running game, and a playbook, and audibles?
     
  3. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    Lol, I have never heard this "Carr homer" thing until I started reading the boards again recently. It smacks of the petulant name calling we did in grade school, like mama's boy, or butt kisser. Or in older times, you Communist, you Jew, etc....

    So I add the "Carr homer and Carr basher" to the list along with "Republican and Democrat", "right and wrong", and "black and white". So a "Carr homer" is someone who dares point out that there is more problems than Carr on the team. And a "Carr Basher" is the one who thinks that Carr is the sole reason for the offensive struggles, the inability to win games, the direction of the franchise, the state of football today, the price of gas, FEMA, pollution, political corruption, lobbyists, global warming, and that darn headache you woke up with today. Its all his fault isn't it. Did I leave anything out? Is there any room at all for someone who things you have to fix the team first, before you worry about bringing in another QB to trash? ...that maybe the O-line, playcalling, no run game, coaching, AND the QB are at fault?

    Tennessee had a running game, and had play calling. We have neither. They had some difficulties in the run game, because they had no ability or threat to pass, so defenses keyed on the run.

    There is no "one player" fix to any team. Not even a QB.

    You want to know how to fix this?? You spend whatever you need to spend to get some quality OL in here from FA. They are the anchors of the team, not the QB. You find a way to pay them whatever is required and you draft some more OL in the draft. Once you have an OL in place that can protect the QB for enough time to get into a 5 step drop and go through 2-3 of his reads, THEN and ONLY THEN do you get a new QB. OL first, QB second.

    In the meantime, you start working on short routes with outlets, not just slants where Carr is still in the middle of the pocket. They paid a lot of lip service to his ability to roll out, and he can do it. Lets see it. Lets see him head on a bootleg immediately instead of going to the pocket before fleeing for his life. He ran the shotgun in a game a couple years ago, and did just fine. Lets see how he does in the shotgun. He can't read the offense very well anyway, so the amount of concentration it takes to catch that ball wont effect him much. Plus, I think he played shotgun at Fresno.
     
  4. MightyTExan

    MightyTExan It's go time!

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    What kills me about Carr is on the few chances he has to make a play, he doesn't. He looks downfield and is about to throw and pulls it down. Make a play dude.
    Frustrating.
     
  5. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    I totally agree with you. That is why you should never draft a QB at #1 in the salary cap era. However, we made it worse by extending Carr given the state of our line and, in my opinion, the glass eyes and happy feet from the sacks the first year.
     
  6. real

    real Guest

    You lost me after this line.....

    :tearup:
     
  7. joshri

    joshri Rookie

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    Manning could definitely play behind our line.

    For goodness sake, look at Matt Leinart. He is a rookie and plays behind a worse O line than Houston's and is playing much better than Carr. Hell, he is already a better QB than Carr is and Carr has been in the league for however many years.
     
  8. real

    real Guest


    Bingo.
     


  9. hot pickle

    hot pickle Canada Eh

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    shut up
     
  10. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    You may have been right about the O-Line at the beginning of the year. However, Leinert does have some time to throw behind that O-Line, more so than what Houston has had the past 6 games or so. I have only seen 2 of his games, and he looks good. But, he also has time to throw. There has been no worse O-Line in the game than Houston's in the past couple games. The playcalling has been unoriginal as well. The Cardinals at least had a couple of neat plays that gave Leinert a chance.
     
  11. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    Haha, typical response from someone who lacks either maturity or the ability to think past "me hungry", "me like".

    I know, it is tough for you to to comprehend that there is more than one player on this team that is part of the problem.

    Again, fix the O-Line first. Then get a QB.
     
  12. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    Have you even watched the Cardinals game, or only watched the highlights on the pre-game shows?
     
  13. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    I have watched the Colts for many years, as I lived in the area for work when I was in the military.

    He can get the ball out of his hands quickly, because he adjusts to what the defense presents to him via audibles. He also has short targets and his receivers are better at coming back when they recognize the blitz. Our guys just run out their pattern most of the time.

    He is NOT a good QB when he has defenders close to him or in his face. If you can pressure Manning he crumbles. If he can get rid of the ball before you pressure him, he is still the QB wizard. HOWEVER, in our line he would be pressured before that happened. He would have to play with guys in his face as our QB does, and he would not play well. The Texans "fans' would boo him and think he sucks, because they need someone to hate.

    Hateful little tards so many are.
     
  14. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    I think we did the right thing in extending him. I think we screwed up by not bringing more talent in for the O-Line and for not planning playcalling around 1-2 second deliveries.

    We can worry about bringing in a QB when we have an O-line that can protect, and playcalling that offers more ways than the slant to quickly get rid of the ball.
     
  15. real

    real Guest

    Yes.
     
  16. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    Yeah, the Colts were fools to take Manning first overall.

    on the thread in general...

    Upgrade the talent at QB and you have a....more talented QB! Manning helps his line out by not putting them in bad positions constantly. He is a part of why that offense runs well. Manning came to a rotten Colts team too...but it didn't stay rotten forever like ours. If it doesn't matter what the talent is at QB you should just pay some guy 1mil a year to manage games...but it matters who is standing behind center. If it didn't teams wouldn't be drafting guys like Cutler to replace guys like Plummer.
     
  17. real

    real Guest

    You really didn't have to start a new thread for this.....

    But....

    Our QB is pathetic and I don't think we can properly evaluate our O-line until we bring in a QB that knows how to play the position...
     
  18. real

    real Guest

    B-I-N-G-O.....and bingo was his name-o
     
  19. Jeffery

    Jeffery Rookie

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    LOL, ok well I have only seen 2 full games from the Cardinals, and a couple other Cardinal games flipping through while watching other games.

    BUT, I go on record as disagreeing that the Cardinals O-line is worse than the Texans. I think the Texans is the worst in league right now. The Raiders game was a complete embarrassment. I don't know how they left their homes the next day without a bag over their heads. (That DOES include Carr with the O-Line)

    I will be sure to watch the Cardinals game this week with my stopwatch and get back with you. :)
     
  20. real

    real Guest

    I really don't see what good that'll do.....
     

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