A nice analysis of SB O-lines.

Discussion in 'Texans Talk' started by edo783, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. edo783

    edo783 Site Contributor

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    This is from NFL.com by Gregg Easterbrook. We should pay attention:

    Why are the Pittsburgh and Seattle offensive lines so good? One reason is seven of the 10 were originally drafted by their teams. Four of five players on both offensive lines have been starting together for four years, meaning they know each other's moves. Offensive line moves are more important than spectators realize: think of Tobeck turning the wrong way. Teams seeking success ought to follow the Pittsburgh and Seattle offensive line model -- invest draft choices in blockers, then keep them together as a unit for an extended period.
     
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  2. Scooter

    Scooter Funky

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    jeff hartings - rd 1, pick 23 (detroit)
    alan faneca - rd 1, pick 26 (pitt)
    marvel smith - rd 2, pick 38 (pitt)
    max starks - rd 3, pick 75 (pitt)
    kendall simmons - rd 1, pick 30 (pitt)

    steve hutchinson - rd 1, pick 17 (seattle)
    walter jones - rd 1, pick 6 (seattle)
    chris gray - rd 5, pick 132 (miami)
    robbie tobeck - undrafted (signed by atlanta)
    sean locklear - rd 3, pick 84 (seattle)


    i hope we learn to draft like that one of these days. "weapons" & "game breakers" are nice, but they dont do anything without the big uglies winning their battle. between both teams, only two offensive skill position players have been taken in the first round ... sean alexander & ben roethlisberger. i read somewhere (probably that article) that alan faneca should've been front runner for MVP and i find it hard to disagree. draft linemen first, load up on defense, and mix in a few skill position guys as needed. unless of course we'd rather be the lions, drafting the "best player EVER!!!!!" year after year.
     
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  3. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    Good stuff Edo and Scooter. These threads that make sense usually do not get a lot of attention.
     
  4. The Preacher

    The Preacher Veteran

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    But dude don't you know all of Denver's line was taken after the 165th pick overall except one 1st rounder and since Kubes ids coming here, we won't need to spend our first day picks on linemen.

    My first day
    1)Reggie Bush-DD won't take all the punishment
    2)Sinorice Moss-the #2 we've been waiting for
    3A)Dominique Byrd-Finally a play making TE
    3B)Skyler Green-A steal at this point the man can flat out fly

    We really don't need any linemen since FA has some decent guys plus I am sure we are about to gel.

    4)Michael Robinson-falls to second day can play WR,QB,RB,CB,S and return if Mathis gets hurt. Keeps Green and Mathis on top of their forty.
    5)Reggie Mcneal-flier QB also can do reverses with Robinson ala Randel El/Ward
    6)Fastest Man available-hopefully a slash type to prototype next year's talent
    7)Scott Frost-grab him before he heads to Canada I firmly believe he is a true QB/S convert he essentially revolutionized this theory.

    Now imagine the possibilities we could control the clock with 20-25 second trick plays that allow close to 45-50 minutes of the clock control to assure we don't need to draft defense either.
     
  5. cadahnic

    cadahnic All Pro

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    Wow the fact that you did not put the sarcasm sign on this almost threw me off till you got to the end. Nice you had me going there preach. Denver will also be looking for some top OLs though in this draft, because as many Broncos fans have stated they run well, but dont pass block overly well.
     
  6. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    Brings up a question. How many zone blocking teams have been in the top 10 in the passing game? I ask because size does matter with blocking schemes.

    I do not know the answer, just looking for thoughts.
     
  7. cadahnic

    cadahnic All Pro

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    Well the Broncos were during the Elway years were up there I am pretty sure, but other than that I cannot really remember any. I know the Packers used it for a bit as did the Chargers, but I dont think either of them were up there when they used it, and they both switched back to the traditional blocking schemes. I would have to ask Coach C. because he knows more on this kinda crap, AJ or Infantry may know some also, If Vinny's seasoned wisdom would get on he may be able to shed some light.
     
  8. Texans Horror

    Texans Horror Hall of Fame

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    Who are the best five offensive lines in the NFL?

    People talk about the Colts/Broncos/Steelers lines and how good they are. Are they the best lines in the NFL? I tried looking this up, and the whole things is kind of opaque. There are some "guidelines" (number of sacks, penalties, how well the running game goes, etc.), but I'm not seeing anything that provides a definitive ranking of lines. If anyone knows, I would love to see that info.
     


  9. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    Here is Football Outsiders' attempt to rank OL's by their system which orders them on adjusted line yards and adjusted sack rate. Take it FWIW. They do a lot of stat manipulation which IMO has lead to some pretty odd conclusions which make me question their methodology, but it is interesting.
     
  10. Sportsfan

    Sportsfan All Pro

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    Someone email this to Casserly and Kubiak immediately.
     
  11. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    Thanks.

    Another link off the site for eductational purposes:
    Zone Blocking vs. Man Blocking
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/03/31/ramblings/stat-analysis/2484/
     
  12. Runner

    Runner Hubcap Diamond Staff Member

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    So this shows that Denver was 2nd in run blocking and 7th in pass protection for 2005. It also shows Denver was 8th in run and 3rd in pass protection in 2004.

    As you said, take it FWIW according to their methodology.
     
  13. Kaiser Toro

    Kaiser Toro Native Mod

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    When you break it down, just to a statistical level in this methodology, there has been quite a delta between the pass and run blocking for Atlanta and Houston that is not evident with the Broncos in 2004-2005.
     
  14. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

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    When this article 1st came out, I thought these comments were telling:

    I would assume/hope at this point that Pendry's reluctance to implement the entirety of the Denver/Atlanta scheme exited with his departure.
     
  15. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    I wonder how true this would be, if you look at the Championship teams. Denver/Pitts, Seattle/Carolina.... I wonder if those lines have more of their own picks on their line than Indy/Kansas city have on theirs.

    I also wonder if this was also true for last year's SB teams, the pat's and the Eagles...

    I mean just because it looks true this year, does that necessarily mean it is true??

    I mean I could say both teams come from the northern part of the country. Does that mean we need to move the team to Nebraska??
     
  16. HJam72

    HJam72 Hall of Fame

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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :brickwall


    Don't even joke about moving the team. :)

    So, when we FINALLY get a complete O-line together, they'll need to stay together for 4 years to see their real potential. :cool:
     
  17. JohnGalt

    JohnGalt Rookie

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    You really need to read the whole article to get where Easterbrook is going with this.

     
  18. JohnGalt

    JohnGalt Rookie

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    It's not just about drafting the O-Line, it's about the value of your picks and using your young players so you have cash for a few big money FA's that can put you over the top.
     
  19. TheOgre

    TheOgre Hall of Fame

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    It seems to correlate well. I like the logic behind it, although I am not sure of the total degree of correlation.
     
  20. thunderkyss

    thunderkyss Salem Poor

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    IT's a good read.... he may very well have a point, but some of his argument was based on a belief that may/maynot always be the case.... that a player is more team oriented knowing he is locked in for the term of a 4 year contract, then he says that same player is working his but off, for the big payday that is coming after the 4 years......... I just don't think those are necessarily givens. Some folks just want to win.
     

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