A Cautionary Tale for overrating Combine Performances

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by nunusguy, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,991
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Houston
    Since the 1995 NFL Scouting Combine, when Mike Mamula turned heads with his spectacular workouts but upset stomachs with his eventual pro career, the Boston College defensive end/linebacker has served as the primary, cautionary combine tale. The lesson stressed was for teams to be leery of falling in love with collegiate players in shorts who fanatically prep for and then shine in Indianapolis.
    **
    NY Jets linebacker Vernon Gholston does not seek to replace Mamula as that guy, that example, the freshest reminder. But based on his riveting 2008 combine and his undistinguished rookie season that followed, in some circles, Gholston already has.

    "Safe to say," one long-time NFL personnel executive said last week, requesting anonymity, "that Vernon Gholston is the bust of the 2008 draft."
    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id...late=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
     
  2. Mari-OWNED!

    Mari-OWNED! Bucco Bruce

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    How can a writer call someone a bust after one season? It just doesn't make any sense.
     
  3. 4Texans

    4Texans Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Texas
    Ouch!!!!
     
  4. rarazz00

    rarazz00 VOLUME 10

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Houston
    So judging a player after one season would have made Mario a bust. I guess these sports writers need fodder for their journalistic fire...:bat:
     
  5. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,991
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Houston
    To answer your questions, its my understanding that the Jets LB made it on the field almost exclusively as a STs player. In other words this guy, who was the 6th overall pick in last years Draft and the Jets have already paid millions of dollars of guaranteed money to, rarely played in 1st or second or third down situations and never became a starter all year long.
    I dunno, does that help ?
     
  6. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    8,696
    Likes Received:
    685
    This is my least favorite part of the offseason. I get all excited about the combine, draft, etc. and forget that we're about to get bombarded with "the combine is useless" kind of comments all across the boards and internet. Well I'm going to make a vow as to not comment at all about it:)

    That sounds like Charley Casserly to me.
     
  7. Specnatz

    Specnatz Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,620
    Likes Received:
    458
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Matt Millen?
     
  8. Mari-OWNED!

    Mari-OWNED! Bucco Bruce

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    No it doesn't. Lots of players have bad rookie years, some have gone on to having Hall Of Fame careers. I understand your where you're coming from, but at least give the guy 3 years in the NFL before calling him a bust.
     


  9. Polo

    Polo Guest


    The Jets may not have put him in the best possible position to succeed...AKA they may not have coached/utilized him correctly his rookie year.
     
  10. Polo

    Polo Guest

    Don't be adsurd...

    Casserly wouldn't know a bust if a Woman had her 44 DDD's in his face...Or if David Carr was a top prospect...

    Of course it was the Jets GM...Trying to motivate his guy....
     
  11. Blake

    Blake MMQB

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,222
    Likes Received:
    624
    Location:
    Spring
    This just in. The combine isn't everything you need to know about a player.
     
  12. Wolf6151

    Wolf6151 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,614
    Likes Received:
    132
    Location:
    Pearland, Texas
    I think that the combine is a useful tool for measuring players against each other at the same positions but I also think that some teams overrate the combine. Kubiak said last year that the combine was overrated for evaluating players and that he preferred game film for evaluating players in game situations. As for a player being a bust 1 yr. isn't enough time to judge if a player is a bust, I think it should be 3 yrs.. Also a player being a bust is the fault of both sides, the player and his attitude and committment, and the team that he goes to and the coaching provided to him. Some teams expect a rookie player to be self motivated and know everything when he makes it to the NFL. To me an NFL rookie knows just enough to make it to the NFL it's then up to the team to take that piece of clay and mold it into a beautiful vase.

    The 40 yd. dash at the combine should be run in full uniform, pads, and helmet since that's the way your going to play the game.
     
  13. b0ng

    b0ng Ooops

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    7,891
    Likes Received:
    613
    That writer is a dipshit and I hope Gholston breaks out. I wish that these writers could be burned at the stake for saying players are "busts" after their rookie seasons.
     
  14. Lucky

    Lucky Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    14,298
    Likes Received:
    1,481
    A workout warrior is a player who tests at a higher level than his college production would suggest. Mike Mamula fits that description. Vernon Gholston, who had a terrific career at Ohio State, does not.

    Gholston's biggest problems were that he was playing in a sophisticated hybrid defense, and played behind a couple of good OLB/DEs in Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace.
     
    stingray likes this.
  15. threetoedpete

    threetoedpete Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 26, 2004
    Messages:
    6,644
    Likes Received:
    197
    Location:
    Katy, Texas
    There certainly will be a Mike Mamula or a Tony Mandrich in this class. I'm sure Micheal Johnson's numbers will jump off the charts.....thats why you always go back to the tape. Projecting where players will be two years from now is an art not a science. You tell me a lineman can't make twenty five reps on the bench press....that's a problem. Tell me an o-lineman can't get close to 5.4 on his forty time....that's a problem. Tell me a LB can't flip his hips and turn and run....that's a problem. The combine is simply one piece of the puzzle.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id...ate=without-video-with- comments&confirm=true

    Bare minimum Wonderlick Scores by position:

    Offensive Tackles: 26
    Center :25
    QBs: 24
    Guards: 23
    Safety & Linebackers: 19
    Tight Ends : 22
    Corner Back: 18
    Wide Receiver: 17
    Full back : 17
    Halfback : 16
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  16. Mr teX

    Mr teX Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,202
    Likes Received:
    481
    Location:
    Everyone Wants The Throne
    i didn't like him coming out of college & if there was 1 player that i thought would flop, it was him. He didn't look as fast on tape as his 40 time in the combine suggested. He also didn't look like he had much technique, it was just line up & get there & you're not going to get away with that in the NFL.
     
  17. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,117
    Likes Received:
    555
    This topic should be title:

    Michael Johnson: A Look into the Future
     
  18. mexican_texan

    mexican_texan Furry Tractors

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,192
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Spring, TX
    Brodrick Bunkley was called a bust after his rookie year too.
     
  19. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,991
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Houston
    I didn't say Gholston was a bust, the guy in the article did. But I'll tell you this, he's well on his way to being a bust even though I would would say it's premature to write him off entirely this early.
    We are talking about nothing less than the 6th overall pick in the Draft and basically all he's done is play in ST situations. For comparison, everyone of our first round picks has started much if not most of the games in their rookie season, even though some might say that decision was ill advised in some situations.
    Obviously the most comparable situation for us was Jason Babin, who was transitioning from being a college 4-3 DE to a OLB in the 3-4, same as apparently Gholston is. While Babin certainly wasn't a big success in his rookie year (or later for that matter), on the other hand he wasn't an abject
    failure either. He started, he played, and made some plays and contributed and we are talking about the 27th pick in the Draft, not a top 6 selection. Big difference.
     
  20. Spled

    Spled All Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    776
    Likes Received:
    18
    I think Mamula and Mandrich were both roid creation/workout beasts. At least Mamula had 31 and a half career sacks, Gholston has a way to go before he catches up.
     

Share This Page