Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

4 years isn't enough.

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
I am having to come to grips that TK may just be a troll.

Here is some stuff he has said about Myers. he says he is our most effective OL. I didn't think anyone would believe it till they saw it with their own eyes, so here is the link.

I am all for optimism and glasses half full, but to call Myers anything other than an abomination at Center is pretty much bullcrap.

TKs massive homer job for Chris Myers

Anyone who has watched the Texans play, knows how bad Myers is. How many times do we need to see him thrown around like a rag doll before we wake up to reality. Make up your mind TK. Does he get thrown around like a ragdoll or what? In one sentence, you say he doesn't then the next sentence you admit that he does.

Dude is worst starting Center in football. has been since the day he got here....but Kubiak loves him and he is from Denver, so he is god in cleats.

Myers sucks. plain and simple.
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
I agree with whoever said Grier needs to go. And if you are happy with 8-8 and a bunch of softer than charmin players and nice guys than keep Kubes. This team is mentally soft and physically soft on offense and that ladies and gents falls squarely on the HC. And the HC is a reflection of the owner Mr. McWhipple. It all starts at the top folks. And I wonder if McWhipple even has the nads to hire someone like a Bill Cowher. I think he might be looking to a Tony Dungy type because that is his own personality. At least Dungy has the pedigree, but I'm ready for someone's ass to get chewed and to instill some toughness in this team. I'm tired of watching the Houston Charmins.
 
I do not understand this reasoning at all. If Kubiak has been fired, why would Shanny not want to coach here? Because Kubiak used to work for him? It's not like calling him and saying " hey, if you will come here to coach, then i will fire Gary"

If the job is open, I think he would jump at the chance to come here and could keep his son as the OC.

I personally do not want him to come here.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that a person would most likely not take a job their friend is fired from? It's not that complicated.

It's not like Shanny has $10 bucks left in his checking account and needs a gig to pay the bills. The man already has millions, and there are likely to be many openings to pick from.

He is not going to pick the job his buddy was fired from. He's not.

Why is that so hard for people to undertand?
 

FirstTexansFan

The Unknown Fan
I agree with whoever said Grier needs to go. And if you are happy with 8-8 and a bunch of softer than charmin players and nice guys than keep Kubes. This team is mentally soft and physically soft on offense and that ladies and gents falls squarely on the HC. And the HC is a reflection of the owner Mr. McWhipple. It all starts at the top folks. And I wonder if McWhipple even has the nads to hire someone like a Bill Cowher. I think he might be looking to a Tony Dungy type because that is his own personality. At least Dungy has the pedigree, but I'm ready for someone's ass to get chewed and to instill some toughness in this team. I'm tired of watching the Houston Charmins.
Well until I see YOU wearing pink soap, I can't totally commit... :)
 

GP

Go Texans!
Why is it so hard for people to understand that a person would most likely not take a job their friend is fired from? It's not that complicated.

It's not like Shanny has $10 bucks left in his checking account and needs a gig to pay the bills. The man already has millions, and there are likely to be many openings to pick from.

He is not going to pick the job his buddy was fired from. He's not.

Why is that so hard for people to undertand?
I'm with you.

That's not going to happen. And nobody wants a daddy-son combination, especially since Kyle has stated that he wants to make it on his own.

It won't happen.
 

WWJD

Hall of Fame
For anybody on here that pays big bucks to go to the games would you be less inclined to go IF Gary was retained?

the general mood on some of the sports radio in Houston seems to be that some are willing to walk away if the Texans don't make a coaching change; they feel it will be more of the same next year.

Just curious.
 

FirstTexansFan

The Unknown Fan
For anybody on here that pays big bucks to go to the games would you be less inclined to go IF Gary was retained?

the general mood on some of the sports radio in Houston seems to be that some are willing to walk away if the Texans don't make a coaching change; they feel it will be more of the same next year.

Just curious.
I was looking at becoming a season ticket holder next year, I can say with total honesty, that if McNair decides to keep Kubiak as our head coach, I won't be making that commitment.
 
For anybody on here that pays big bucks to go to the games would you be less inclined to go IF Gary was retained?

the general mood on some of the sports radio in Houston seems to be that some are willing to walk away if the Texans don't make a coaching change; they feel it will be more of the same next year.

Just curious.
I'm a season ticket holder, and I'm seriously weighing my options heavily for the very first time.

I know several season ticket holders who are doing the same. One guy I know has been a ticket holder since DAY ONE, and is normally mr rah rah, but he's seriously thinking about ditching it all.

It's kind of sad. When a fan like him is ready to toss in the towel, the Texans are in serious trouble.
 

WWJD

Hall of Fame
Ok..two quick replies and both are not good with regards to spending money on the Texans.

I just noticed this am on the radio there were several callers who said they were long time season ticket backers and they wouldn't renew.

I am guessing there are people to pick up the options if people cancel their tickets but I cannot imagine seriously people being excited about the team if they trot Kubiak back out there. What changes?

Surely Mr. McNair is hearing this type of feedback.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If Kubiak was improving as a HC, I would be ok with giving him another year. But he is not getting better as he is still making the same mistakes over and over again. There have been too many games over the past 2 years that he hasn't put his players in the best position to win the game. He is trying to out-coach the other sidelines, and trying to be the hero himself. This team doesn't need a hero as a coach anymore, we simply need a guy who gets his best players on the field, and calls the plays that get them the ball.
Finally a good argument against.

We are a top ten offense.

Were the season to start all over again, we would be at least upper half defense, if not top 10.

Still alot of things to be improved upon, I don't deny that, but I think we are headed in the right direction.

Other than the Tennessee game, & the Jets game, I don't have a real big problem with the play calling, & I honestly think too many people are confusing play calling with the decisions the players make on the field.

Just looking at yesterday's game, had DA held on to the ball, & not coughed it up, had AJ & KDub held on to several balls they dropped, had James Casey(3rd round rookie, I know) made the correct block, had Chris Brown kept the ball & took the loss, or threw it out of bounds, he was on the freak'n sideline already) & several other things, like Grossman being on the same page with AJ, & putting a little less air under a couple of throws...... the play calling was right on.

You don't loose the majority of your games by 7 points or less, because of bad play calling, & it's not like we're asking our players to do anything they are not capable of doing. They simply aren't getting it done, when it counts. IMO, that's part of the natural progression from where we were, to where we want to be.

The last 5 weeks, we've been in position to tie or win every game, despite all the fumbles & interceptions, & bad decisions made by the players on the field.

That's not bad coaching, or game management, or clock management.

That's a stepping stone. & I've got faith in Kubiak, because I've seen this team lay down before, but not in the last 3 & a half years.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
or - http://popup.lala.com/popup/576742231816077331

Now for ten years we�ve been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rollin� stone,
But that�s not how it used to be.
When the jester sang for the king and queen,
In a coat he borrowed from james dean
And a voice that came from you and me,

Oh, and while the king was looking down,
The jester stole his thorny crown.
The courtroom was adjourned;
No verdict was returned.
And while lennon read a book of marx,
The quartet practiced in the park,
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died.

Helter skelter in a summer swelter.
The birds flew off with a fallout shelter,
Eight miles high and falling fast.
It landed foul on the grass.
The players tried for a forward pass,
With the jester on the sidelines in a cast.

Now the half-time air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
`cause the players tried to take the field;
The marching band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?
 
Last edited:

Goldensilence

hipster elite
Finally a good argument against.

We are a top ten offense.

Were the season to start all over again, we would be at least upper half defense, if not top 10.

Still alot of things to be improved upon, I don't deny that, but I think we are headed in the right direction.

Other than the Tennessee game, & the Jets game, I don't have a real big problem with the play calling, & I honestly think too many people are confusing play calling with the decisions the players make on the field.

Just looking at yesterday's game, had DA held on to the ball, & not coughed it up, had AJ & KDub held on to several balls they dropped, had James Casey(3rd round rookie, I know) made the correct block, had Chris Brown kept the ball & took the loss, or threw it out of bounds, he was on the freak'n sideline already) & several other things, like Grossman being on the same page with AJ, & putting a little less air under a couple of throws...... the play calling was right on.

You don't loose the majority of your games by 7 points or less, because of bad play calling, & it's not like we're asking our players to do anything they are not capable of doing. They simply aren't getting it done, when it counts. IMO, that's part of the natural progression from where we were, to where we want to be.

The last 5 weeks, we've been in position to tie or win every game, despite all the fumbles & interceptions, & bad decisions made by the players on the field.

That's not bad coaching, or game management, or clock management.

That's a stepping stone. & I've got faith in Kubiak, because I've seen this team lay down before, but not in the last 3 & a half years.
Bob McNair is that you?

It is on the players and right now you do have a coach.
 
Ok..two quick replies and both are not good with regards to spending money on the Texans.

I just noticed this am on the radio there were several callers who said they were long time season ticket backers and they wouldn't renew.

I am guessing there are people to pick up the options if people cancel their tickets but I cannot imagine seriously people being excited about the team if they trot Kubiak back out there. What changes?

Surely Mr. McNair is hearing this type of feedback.

I'm pretty sure he has to be. There are a ton of PSL's already up for grabs. Surely there will be more.
 
I agree there have been some coaching snafus made, I agree that some of those appear to have been stubbornly made again, & again, & again.

I agree that Kubiak isn't the best HC in the league. But I think he has more upside than any KC candidate out there.

I understand not accepting mediocrity, I understand demanding excellence, & I understand, and believe Kubiak needs to feel a little heat.

I'm just going to say I think he has done more good than not, I like what he's doing overall, & I would like to see another year of it, at least.
Can't agree. Too many coaches turn around worse teams faster than Gary. See Cincy, Atlanta, New Orleans, Arizona. It can be done.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
Keep up the good fight Thunderkyss. I hope all ya'll bail on your season tickets so I can relocate. Not saying anything, just saying.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I don't just "think" four years is enough time I know it is. I'm as certain of that as I've ever been about anything to do with this team. In the fifth year I'd like to know what "event" is going to take place that suddenly turns all this embarrassing bullshit into delicious candy. What miracle will occur and teach Gary the art of game management and good decision making that has thus far eluded him. I really want to know how anyone could watch this team for four years and genuinely expect to see something different out of them in that magical fifth season.

If you're counting on a Jeff Fisher-ish Super Bowl run following 8-8 for three years straight then consider just how rare that is.

If you think that Kubiak is some kind of modern day Tom Landry who suddenly gets through to his players after five years (it actually took Landry 7) then do you understand how rare he was?

Thinking that Gary Kubiak is going to become Bill Belichick at his next coaching stop and that we'd be mistaken in cutting this budding genius loose too soon is just madness. For every coach who was let go and became a good coach in his next stop there are 5-6 that did a Norv Turner the next time they got the keys to the franchise. Gary's a lot closer to Norv Turner than he is to becoming Bill Belichick or Tom Landry.

But lets assume for a moment that Gary Kubiak does pull out a meaningless four game winning streak, finishes the season 9-7, and Bob McNair gives him one more season to take us over the top. Here's my approach to that.

Zero tolerance.

The start of the 2010 season will be just like every other year and filled with hope of course but the moment Gary starts being "Gary" and the Texans start losing their undisciplined asses toward a .500 record I'm coming down on that S.O.B. like a ton of bricks and so will every lucid Texans fan in existence. If you think this team gags on expectations and the pressure of meaningful games now just wait and see what they play like when the entire world comes crashing down on them every time they screw up. 2010 is destined to be filled with boos and empty seats if Kubiak returns and I don't think it's possible for McNair not to know that. If he brings Kubiak back and Kubiak fails the Texans will be playing in a blacked out and empty stadium before November. You know what that's going to mean?

David Carr improved under Kubiak but he was done here. Not only were the Texans sure that he wasn't their guy but they were also certain that they were out of time with him. He would simply not be tolerated by the Houston fans anymore. This was particularly true following the non-drafting of Vince Young.

Dom Capers was out of time long before the season ended in 2005 and the knowledge that he was destined to be fired, ignored by the players, and reviled by the fans at that stage made his "death march" to the end of the year all the more unbearable. 2005 was a horrible time to be a Texans fan.

I don't think Kubiak is facing that right now but if he comes back next year he's going to be one really stupid call away from going down that road. Just one choke job from his team is all it will take to bring the media here in town and all the people watching down on their heads.

I really hope Bob McNair has learned enough to know when to say "when".
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
I don't just "think" four years is enough time I know it is. I'm as certain of that as I've ever been about anything to do with this team. In the fifth year I'd like to know what "event" is going to take place that suddenly turns all this embarrassing bullshit into delicious candy. What miracle will take place and teach Gary the art of game management and good decision making that has thus far eluded him. I really want to know how anyone could watch this team for four years and genuinely expect to see something different out of them in that magical fifth season.

If you're counting on a Jeff Fisher miracle Super Bowl run following 8-8 for three years straight then consider just how rare that is.

If you think that Kubiak is some kind of modern day Tom Landry who suddenly gets through to his players after five years (it actually took Landry 7) then do you understand how rare he was?

Thinking that Gary Kubiak is going to become Bill Belichick at his next coaching stop and that we'd be mistaken in cutting this budding genius loose too soon is just madness. For every coach who was let go and became a good coach in his next stop there are 5-6 that did a Norv Turner the next time they got the keys to the franchise. Gary's a lot closer to Norv Turner than he is to become Bill Belichick or Tom Landry.

But lets assume for a moment that Gary Kubiak does pull out a meaningless four game winning streak, finished the season 9-7, and Bob McNair gives him one more season to take us over the top. Here's my approach to that.

Zero tolerance.

The start of the 2010 season will be just like every other year and filled with hope of course but the moment Gary starts being "Gary" and the Texans start losing their undisciplined asses toward a .500 record I'm coming down on that S.O.B. like a ton of bricks and so will every lucid Texans fan in existence. If you think this team gags on expectations and the pressure of meaningful games just wait and see what they play like when the entire world comes crashing down on them every time they make a mistake. 2010 is destined to be filled with boos and empty seats if Kubiak returns and I don't think it's possible for McNair not to know that. If he brings Kubiak back and Kubiak fails the Texans will be playing in a blacked out and empty stadium before November. You know what that's going to mean?

David Carr improved under Kubiak but he was done here. Not only were the Texans sure that he wasn't their guy but they were also certain that they were out of time with him. He would simply not be tolerated by the Houston fans anymore. This was particularly true following the non-drafting of Vince Young.

Dom Capers was out of time long before the season ended in 2005 and the knowledge that he was destined to be fired, ignored by the players, and reviled by the fans at that stage made his "death march" to the end of the year all the more unbearable. 2005 was a horrible time to be a Texans fan.

I don't think Kubiak is facing that right now but if he comes back next year he's going to be one really stupid call away from going down that road. Just one choke job from his team is all it will take to bring the media here in town and all the people watching down on their heads.

I really hope Bob McNair has learned enough to know when to say "when".
Coach Fisher also had 4 "home" stadiums in 4 consecutive seasons during that 8-8 stretch. The Astrodome, The Liberty (or as I calls it, "the toilet bowl) Bowl, Vanderbilt stadium, and LP Field (formerly known as Adelphia Stadium...fwiw.
 
I understand not accepting mediocrity, I understand demanding excellence, & I understand, and believe Kubiak needs to feel a little heat.
This is my problem

Where is the heat?
Where is the demanding of excellence?
Where are our players saying this isn't good enough?

The ENTIRE franchise appears to be content with 8-8, everyone except the fanbase. We have the quietest players in the history of professional sports, NOT ONE COMPLAINT ABOUT LOSING?!?!?!
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
I don't just "think" four years is enough time I know it is. I'm as certain of that as I've ever been about anything to do with this team. In the fifth year I'd like to know what "event" is going to take place that suddenly turns all this embarrassing bullshit into delicious candy. What miracle will occur and teach Gary the art of game management and good decision making that has thus far eluded him. I really want to know how anyone could watch this team for four years and genuinely expect to see something different out of them in that magical fifth season.

If you're counting on a Jeff Fisher-ish Super Bowl run following 8-8 for three years straight then consider just how rare that is.

If you think that Kubiak is some kind of modern day Tom Landry who suddenly gets through to his players after five years (it actually took Landry 7) then do you understand how rare he was?

Thinking that Gary Kubiak is going to become Bill Belichick at his next coaching stop and that we'd be mistaken in cutting this budding genius loose too soon is just madness. For every coach who was let go and became a good coach in his next stop there are 5-6 that did a Norv Turner the next time they got the keys to the franchise. Gary's a lot closer to Norv Turner than he is to becoming Bill Belichick or Tom Landry.

But lets assume for a moment that Gary Kubiak does pull out a meaningless four game winning streak, finishes the season 9-7, and Bob McNair gives him one more season to take us over the top. Here's my approach to that.

Zero tolerance.

The start of the 2010 season will be just like every other year and filled with hope of course but the moment Gary starts being "Gary" and the Texans start losing their undisciplined asses toward a .500 record I'm coming down on that S.O.B. like a ton of bricks and so will every lucid Texans fan in existence. If you think this team gags on expectations and the pressure of meaningful games now just wait and see what they play like when the entire world comes crashing down on them every time they screw up. 2010 is destined to be filled with boos and empty seats if Kubiak returns and I don't think it's possible for McNair not to know that. If he brings Kubiak back and Kubiak fails the Texans will be playing in a blacked out and empty stadium before November. You know what that's going to mean?

David Carr improved under Kubiak but he was done here. Not only were the Texans sure that he wasn't their guy but they were also certain that they were out of time with him. He would simply not be tolerated by the Houston fans anymore. This was particularly true following the non-drafting of Vince Young.

Dom Capers was out of time long before the season ended in 2005 and the knowledge that he was destined to be fired, ignored by the players, and reviled by the fans at that stage made his "death march" to the end of the year all the more unbearable. 2005 was a horrible time to be a Texans fan.

I don't think Kubiak is facing that right now but if he comes back next year he's going to be one really stupid call away from going down that road. Just one choke job from his team is all it will take to bring the media here in town and all the people watching down on their heads.

I really hope Bob McNair has learned enough to know when to say "when".
Hervoyel, you just kicked some ass. I am so sick of the Tom Landry/Bill Belichick comparisons. Do some of these yayhoos even actually believe what is coming out of their mouth/keyboard.

Best Post Ever, Herv. If Kubiak is brought back, it will prove that irregardless of Bob McNair being a classy owner and bringing football back to Houston, Bob is just another stupid loser with a bunch of money. We have already been there and done that, so I hope Bob is smarter than that. I know I am and I know that most of our fanbase is. We all know that Kubiak sucks and will never be anything other than a failed head coach...hopefully Bob sees it too.

can firekubiak.com be far behind? i know someone owns either firegarykubiak.com or firekubiak.com...forgot which one.

KUBIAK SUCKS
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Can't agree. Too many coaches turn around worse teams faster than Gary. See Cincy, Atlanta, New Orleans, Arizona. It can be done.
I'm not saying that it can't be done... but it didn't, & we can't go back & do it all over again.

This team is just a mindset away from being something special. We're going to the play-offs next year, wether we change coaches or not. If it's Gary, he'll just be continuing on what he built, if it's another coach, then he'll just be riding on GK's success. What that other coach does in the following years, is what's at stake, & I believe, that I like what would be, if GK continues on his current path.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
my arguement wasnt for the texans, it was attempting to impose reality on "first year coach playoffs woohoo!". our divisional record has regressed, no homer can argue that.

you're reinforcing our divisional record only seconds what i said about the teams mentioned playing in weak divisions. i dont think we've ever lost to miami, but at 6-6 they're you're example of success? i thought we were tired of .500. miami's next 3 games are against the afc south ... far and away the toughest division in the afc. any arguement for or against can be postponed. for perspective however we're 1-1 against the afc east with 2 games left.
This argument doesn't fly anymore. The Texans were in position to win
ANY one of its SIX division games in '09. Yet, every opportunity was
squandered to finish 1-5. We beat the Cincinnati Bengals, and they SWEPT
their division, which includes the Steelers and Ravens. They went
6-0 in a division EVERY BIT as tough as ours. If you don't compete in your
division, you WON'T make the playoffs.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This argument doesn't fly anymore. The Texans were in position to win
ANY one of its SIX division games in '09.
I completely agree.

Your coaches job is to get players in a position to win the game. But it's still the players who have to win the game, not the coach.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I don't just "think" four years is enough time I know it is. I'm as certain of that as I've ever been about anything to do with this team. In the fifth year I'd like to know what "event" is going to take place that suddenly turns all this embarrassing bullshit into delicious candy. What miracle will occur and teach Gary the art of game management and good decision making that has thus far eluded him. I really want to know how anyone could watch this team for four years and genuinely expect to see something different out of them in that magical fifth season.

If you're counting on a Jeff Fisher-ish Super Bowl run following 8-8 for three years straight then consider just how rare that is.

If you think that Kubiak is some kind of modern day Tom Landry who suddenly gets through to his players after five years (it actually took Landry 7) then do you understand how rare he was?

Thinking that Gary Kubiak is going to become Bill Belichick at his next coaching stop and that we'd be mistaken in cutting this budding genius loose too soon is just madness. For every coach who was let go and became a good coach in his next stop there are 5-6 that did a Norv Turner the next time they got the keys to the franchise. Gary's a lot closer to Norv Turner than he is to becoming Bill Belichick or Tom Landry.

But lets assume for a moment that Gary Kubiak does pull out a meaningless four game winning streak, finishes the season 9-7, and Bob McNair gives him one more season to take us over the top. Here's my approach to that.

Zero tolerance.

The start of the 2010 season will be just like every other year and filled with hope of course but the moment Gary starts being "Gary" and the Texans start losing their undisciplined asses toward a .500 record I'm coming down on that S.O.B. like a ton of bricks and so will every lucid Texans fan in existence. If you think this team gags on expectations and the pressure of meaningful games now just wait and see what they play like when the entire world comes crashing down on them every time they screw up. 2010 is destined to be filled with boos and empty seats if Kubiak returns and I don't think it's possible for McNair not to know that. If he brings Kubiak back and Kubiak fails the Texans will be playing in a blacked out and empty stadium before November. You know what that's going to mean?

David Carr improved under Kubiak but he was done here. Not only were the Texans sure that he wasn't their guy but they were also certain that they were out of time with him. He would simply not be tolerated by the Houston fans anymore. This was particularly true following the non-drafting of Vince Young.

Dom Capers was out of time long before the season ended in 2005 and the knowledge that he was destined to be fired, ignored by the players, and reviled by the fans at that stage made his "death march" to the end of the year all the more unbearable. 2005 was a horrible time to be a Texans fan.

I don't think Kubiak is facing that right now but if he comes back next year he's going to be one really stupid call away from going down that road. Just one choke job from his team is all it will take to bring the media here in town and all the people watching down on their heads.

I really hope Bob McNair has learned enough to know when to say "when".
Kubiak himself started this trend, on the first game of the 2009 season, to
a packed Reliant Stadium. The fans gave this team four quarters to
show us WHY we should support them the way we do. They were booed
SOUNDLY once the clock read 0:00. Then, Monday Night Football comes to
town, and the entire city makes a holiday for the game. The fans actually
filled their seats HOURS before kickoff, and the house was rockin' PRO TEXANS
all night long. The team lays another egg.

When the Texans miss five tackles on a third-string runningback for the Colts,
who walks it in for a touchdown, the fans begin to emtpy those sets EN
MASSE. I believe 2009 has set the tone of what's to come in 2010 should
Kubiak return. The "HB Option" was just the last straw to break the camel's
back.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying that it can't be done... but it didn't, & we can't go back & do it all over again.

This team is just a mindset away from being something special. We're going to the play-offs next year, wether we change coaches or not. If it's Gary, he'll just be continuing on what he built, if it's another coach, then he'll just be riding on GK's success. What that other coach does in the following years, is what's at stake, & I believe, that I like what would be, if GK continues on his current path.
I started a thread on whether its time to move on. Should of just posted it here. Anyway this what I was trying to get across.

Put the win loss record asside and look at coaching ability, Kubiak has shown no improvement in his four years in that capacity. Has his game preperation gotten better? Has his game decisions gotten better? Has his personell decisions gotten better? Has his clock management gotten better? Has his leadership abilities gotten better? How about his ability to make adjustments in games? Can you honestly say he is a better coach now than he was when he got here?

What is it that makes you think Kubiak has improved as a head coach enough to take this team to the next level?
 
C

Ckw

Guest
I'm not saying that it can't be done... but it didn't, & we can't go back & do it all over again.

This team is just a mindset away from being something special. We're going to the play-offs next year, wether we change coaches or not. If it's Gary, he'll just be continuing on what he built, if it's another coach, then he'll just be riding on GK's success. What that other coach does in the following years, is what's at stake, & I believe, that I like what would be, if GK continues on his current path.
What exactly has Gary Kubiak done so well to make you defend him as much as you are?

What has he proven in his time as a head coach other than that he shows little confidence in his kicker every time he turns away from the play, that he can't manage the clock to save his life, that he tries to be way too "tricky" with his playcalling, that the offense sucks without OD, and that he can't seem to get his team to play a full game of football?!?

I really would like to know where your love and devotion of Kubiak the Head Coach comes from. I don't think any of us are saying we dislike Gary Kubiak but Kubiak the Head Coach has been a failure so far. We owe him gratitude for taking the team as far as he has (2-14 to 8-8), but 8-8 isn't good enough anymore. With the talent level on this team (and I do believe we have a lot of talent), it's playoffs or bust.
 
I don't just "think" four years is enough time I know it is. I'm as certain of that as I've ever been about anything to do with this team. In the fifth year I'd like to know what "event" is going to take place that suddenly turns all this embarrassing bullshit into delicious candy. What miracle will occur and teach Gary the art of game management and good decision making that has thus far eluded him. I really want to know how anyone could watch this team for four years and genuinely expect to see something different out of them in that magical fifth season.

If you're counting on a Jeff Fisher-ish Super Bowl run following 8-8 for three years straight then consider just how rare that is.

If you think that Kubiak is some kind of modern day Tom Landry who suddenly gets through to his players after five years (it actually took Landry 7) then do you understand how rare he was?

Thinking that Gary Kubiak is going to become Bill Belichick at his next coaching stop and that we'd be mistaken in cutting this budding genius loose too soon is just madness. For every coach who was let go and became a good coach in his next stop there are 5-6 that did a Norv Turner the next time they got the keys to the franchise. Gary's a lot closer to Norv Turner than he is to becoming Bill Belichick or Tom Landry.

But lets assume for a moment that Gary Kubiak does pull out a meaningless four game winning streak, finishes the season 9-7, and Bob McNair gives him one more season to take us over the top. Here's my approach to that.

Zero tolerance.

The start of the 2010 season will be just like every other year and filled with hope of course but the moment Gary starts being "Gary" and the Texans start losing their undisciplined asses toward a .500 record I'm coming down on that S.O.B. like a ton of bricks and so will every lucid Texans fan in existence. If you think this team gags on expectations and the pressure of meaningful games now just wait and see what they play like when the entire world comes crashing down on them every time they screw up. 2010 is destined to be filled with boos and empty seats if Kubiak returns and I don't think it's possible for McNair not to know that. If he brings Kubiak back and Kubiak fails the Texans will be playing in a blacked out and empty stadium before November. You know what that's going to mean?

David Carr improved under Kubiak but he was done here. Not only were the Texans sure that he wasn't their guy but they were also certain that they were out of time with him. He would simply not be tolerated by the Houston fans anymore. This was particularly true following the non-drafting of Vince Young.

Dom Capers was out of time long before the season ended in 2005 and the knowledge that he was destined to be fired, ignored by the players, and reviled by the fans at that stage made his "death march" to the end of the year all the more unbearable. 2005 was a horrible time to be a Texans fan.

I don't think Kubiak is facing that right now but if he comes back next year he's going to be one really stupid call away from going down that road. Just one choke job from his team is all it will take to bring the media here in town and all the people watching down on their heads.

I really hope Bob McNair has learned enough to know when to say "when".
I hit the rep button so fast after reading this post it's not even funny.

BRILLIANT.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
I completely agree.

Your coaches job is to get players in a position to win the game. But it's still the players who have to win the game, not the coach.
the coaches job isn't to get them to a close game and then leave it on the players....that is illogical

the cliche is 'the coaches job is to put their players in a position to be successful' did he do that yesterday? no. he said it himself 'we put Chris in a tough situation there'.

its not 'coach and hope the players pull it out at the end of a close game'
 
C

Ckw

Guest
I started a thread on whether its time to move on. Should of just posted it here. Anyway this what I was trying to get across.

Put the win loss record asside and look at coaching ability, Kubiak has shown no improvement in his four years in that capacity. Yep

Has his game preperation gotten better? Slightly but for some reason, this team cannot figure out how to play 4 quarters of football.

Has his game decisions gotten better? Not really. It seems like if his script doesn't work, he folds.

Has his personell decisions gotten better? Finally, but it took him WAY too long to can Dick Smith.

Has his clock management gotten better? Compared to his first couple of seasons, yes. Compared to other head coaches, no.

Has his leadership abilities gotten better? I can't say, but the lack of confidence Kubiak seems to possess as a head coach leads me to believe he isn't the effective leader that brings a winning mentality that this team needs.

How about his ability to make adjustments in games? Somewhat. It just seems like it is always one half or another. He may come out one game and play great to start the game but come out flat in the second half. In other games, the team starts out terrible in the first half, but plays exceptional in the second half. Could you consider that making adjustments or simply an inconsistent team that only wants to play one half of football?

Can you honestly say he is a better coach now than he was when he got here? Yes without a doubt. But I don't know if that is good enough to get us where we want to go.

What is it that makes you think Kubiak has improved as a head coach enough to take this team to the next level? I await his response as well.
Great post and rep your way. Answers in bold.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
It was kind of verbose but the gist of it I think is true. Sometimes you just run out of time and I think Gary's hit that point where yeah, he'll make it to the end of the season but I think coming back in 2010 will do more harm than good.
 

GP

Go Texans!
I completely agree.

Your coaches job is to get players in a position to win the game. But it's still the players who have to win the game, not the coach.
Jacoby Jones is the smartest dumb guy on the team.

He skips the meetings and doesn't waste his time.

This coach cannot SCHEME to beat an opposing team. He is arrogant, thinking he can just line up and call HIS plays and beat ANY team with HIS plays.

He buries that face into a Denny's menu, just trying to find that grand old Kubiak playcall that can beat the other team. Meanwhile, opposing coaches like Del Rio and Fisher are standing there WATCHING the game and THINKING about what opportunities exist in the game based on what they are seeing.

Jack Freaking Del Rio has had more turnover on his team than a team could possibly be able to withstand. But yet he has found a way to win. He sure as HELL has found a way to beat us.

But continue to tell us how Gary Kubiak is not responsible. People adopt the habits and the tendencies of their leader(s). They have adopted Gary Kubiak's style of existence, and it has cost EVERYONE.

There are coaches, TK, who would see weaknesses and immediately address them and make sure either (a) it doesn't happen again, or (b) if it did happen again, those who commit the sins are blotted out. Period.

This is not a "kids league."
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I completely agree.

Your coaches job is to get players in a position to win the game. But it's still the players who have to win the game, not the coach.
Who picked the players?

Ultimately, this team is a direct reflection of the head coach. When they fail to pick players that can successfully and consistently run the plays, then these decisions are part of the big picture, as well.

I wish Kubiak was our OC that we could keep for a another HC. I think he could do some great things with this talent if his entire focus was on the job of OC and all he had to worry about is the offense. Some team might have a fantastic new OC on their team next season. Hope it's not a division rival!

But, unfortunately, Kubiak just doesn't seem to have that ability that is required by successful head coaches: inspirational motivation and smart game time decisions.

I have no hard feelings, just like I don't care if Capers is having great success in Green Bay. It's just business, and that being said, Mr. McNair had better focus on the future instead of hoping that the past will not repeat itself.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
You gotta love how DelRio's staff took advantage of Busing in the lineup.
A simple run fake, there goes the middle of the field. Two routes in the
endzone, Busing attempts to cover the deep guy, WHO'S ALREADY COVERED
BY REEVES! His job was to take the tightend, but he leaves him wide-ass
open. Busing bites hard on every run fake, and leaves the middle of the
field for a bomb.

No Eugene Wilson = Goodbye defense playing like the #1 defense in the
league.

I doubt we ever take a safety in the first three rounds under Kubiak.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
You gotta love how DelRio's staff took advantage of Busing in the lineup.
A simple run fake, there goes the middle of the field. Two routes in the
endzone, Busing attempts to cover the deep guy, WHO'S ALREADY COVERED
BY REEVES! His job was to take the tightend, but he leaves him wide-ass
open. Busing bites hard on every run fake, and leaves the middle of the
field for a bomb.

No Eugene Wilson = Goodbye defense playing like the #1 defense in the
league.

I doubt we ever take a safety in the first three rounds under Kubiak.
Busing better not be on our team next year, Kubiak or no Kubiak. Same with Chris Myers.

Just not NFL caliber players if you ask me.
 

Texan JBZ

Da Sip's Finest
Hello everybody. I'm baaaccckkkkk! You're crazy TK. Kubes has to hit the highway running real fast the hell up out of Houston. I like Kubes, but he hasn't been able to get his team over the hump. He's gotta go. Four years is plenty enough. The freaking Broncos lost a Pro-Bowl QB and have a HC around my age, and even they're in the playoff hunt. The Dolphins go from 1-15 to playoff contenders without their best player (Ronnie Brown). Hell, the Texans beat the Saints a couple of seasons ago. The Saints would thrash my poor team right now. Yes, progress has been made but Kubes can't get his team over the hump. That's on him and I'd be real surprised to see him return next season.
 

gary

Hall of Fame
It's really eight years not four I know it's just been four since Gary took over but you would think between the two Dom and Gary at the very least a winning season in there somewhere. Right? Maybe I'm wrong.
 
C

Ckw

Guest
It was kind of verbose but the gist of it I think is true. Sometimes you just run out of time and I think Gary's hit that point where yeah, he'll make it to the end of the season but I think coming back in 2010 will do more harm than good.
Yep. His time is up. I have tried as hard if not harder than anyone to continue supporting Kubiak. He seems like a good guy and is a smart coach. He seems very likeable, and we all owe him for doing as much as he did to bring this team to respectability. But time is up and this was the year to prove something. 9-7 seems extremely unlikely, and our playoff hopes are over.

What so many Kubiak supporters don't understand, IMO, is the problem is the way that we have lost. They want to blame it on the players for not finishing the game. If it happened once, I would agree with them. But at what point do you start blaming the coach for the players consistently failing in big time situations? Something is wrong in that Texans locker room and something has to be done about it. We have shown that this team is built to compete. I just truly believe Kubiak the Head Coach has taken us as far as he possibly can.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I completely agree.

Your coaches job is to get players in a position to win the game. But it's still the players who have to win the game, not the coach.
It's the coach's job to create the template for the mindset the team needs
to have. Leadership starts with the coach. When your team is in a tight
situation, they need their coach to lead them to victory. When that
gamewinning kick is on the line, our leader turns away. When our quarterback
sees a coverage that nullifies the play that was called, our leader says,
"RUN IT ANYWAY!"

This time, Schaub let his frustration slip to the media. AJ, let his frustration
slip as well. Say what you will about Fisher donning a Manning Jersey in
Tennessee, he's involved with EVERY play EVERY minute of EVERY game.

I just don't see that leadership ON THE FIELD. Now, in the meeting room,
they may study well. On the practice field, they may practice well. When
the bullets are flying on Sunday, though, our players are extremely
undisciplined in key situations, and have almost no awareness of the
scenarios they are in, at any given time.

Our coaches need to TEACH THIS SQUAD how to win, and our leader just
makes the wrong calls at the wrong times.
 

IlliniJen

Hall of Fame
Finally a good argument against.

We are a top ten offense.

Were the season to start all over again, we would be at least upper half defense, if not top 10.
I have a question for you regarding offensive and defensive rank:

WHO FLIPPIN' CARES?!

And by that I mean a team can be top ranked in tons of categories, but if rank doesn't translate into wins, I couldn't give a flying falafel.

I think the fact that we ARE a top 10 offense and could make an argument our defense has improved and we have a pitiful 5-7 record is indicative that something is rotten in the state of Denmark. And down at Reliant.

Still alot of things to be improved upon, I don't deny that, but I think we are headed in the right direction.
How many more years will constitute "headed in the right direction?" Seriously, Kubiak has shown ZERO improvement in win/loss ratio over the last 3 seasons. That's not improvement. That our offense is top ten but we're still 5-7 means that rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic doesn't mean that the skipper wasn't asleep at the wheel.

I'm going for a record number of cliches and allegories in this post.

Other than the Tennessee game, & the Jets game, I don't have a real big problem with the play calling, & I honestly think too many people are confusing play calling with the decisions the players make on the field.
Did you slip and fall and hit your head? Is your Medic Alert bracelet working? Do we need to send help?

I honestly need to know what about yesterday's game (that you excluded) was good in the play-calling area.

Just looking at yesterday's game, had DA held on to the ball, & not coughed it up, had AJ & KDub held on to several balls they dropped, had James Casey(3rd round rookie, I know) made the correct block, had Chris Brown kept the ball & took the loss, or threw it out of bounds, he was on the freak'n sideline already) & several other things, like Grossman being on the same page with AJ, & putting a little less air under a couple of throws...... the play calling was right on.
Look, if your team has trouble executing, there are two things that need to change, and I put BOTH on the coaching staff:

1. Preparation: We have a lot of talented players making stupid mistakes. Mental errors are correctable, but only if someone chews their butt out and makes them fear for their lives if they make them again.

2. If your players are prone to mental errors and make costly mistakes on the field, then it would be logical to NOT PUT THEM IN A POSITION TO FAIL. And you know what low-percentage plays in key situations like a HB pass does? It sets your players up to fail. Run smart, high-percentage plays. To me, this is a key area of bone-headedness that cannot be stressed enough. Your team doesn't know how to win. Doesn't know how to shut the other team down and dominate them mentally or physically. But you know what your team does know how to do? Screw things up in key situations. Why help them do so by calling HB passes or multiple passes on first and goal at the 1? WHY?!

You don't loose the majority of your games by 7 points or less, because of bad play calling, & it's not like we're asking our players to do anything they are not capable of doing. They simply aren't getting it done, when it counts. IMO, that's part of the natural progression from where we were, to where we want to be.
How is this a different trend from last year? They haven't been "getting it done" for 3 seasons now. I'll give Kubiak a mulligan on his first year.

The last 5 weeks, we've been in position to tie or win every game, despite all the fumbles & interceptions, & bad decisions made by the players on the field.

That's not bad coaching, or game management, or clock management.

That's a stepping stone. & I've got faith in Kubiak, because I've seen this team lay down before, but not in the last 3 & a half years.
You don't mention the other important aspects of coaching that Kubiak has not shown any competence or ability in:

1. Preparation
2. Attitude
3. Toughness
4. Personnel decisions - CHRIS BROWN?!?!?!?! Hitches, please!
5. Making adjustments

There's only so much you can put on the players. If your leader is not making the adjustments and getting his players to mentally check in each and every week and go out there and play with balls on fire, then it's time for a change. And Kubiak is a niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice guy. How lovely for him. I bet he'd be a great choice to babysit your kids. But a head football coach is not in his DNA right now, not with this team.

The players love this guy and I'm sure the group hugs after practice, or whatever the hell Kubiak does to get their love, is all fine and well. But do they love him enough to go out there and kill the other team and play with some piss and vinegar?

Hell. No.

Let me repeat that.

HELL. NO.

If football was a contest where the least offensive team won, where likeability and "goshdarnit, aren't they cute when they try?" were factors in winning a championship, then the Texans are right up there as contenders.

There is nothing...AND THE ROCK MEANS NOTHING...on Kubiak's head coaching resume that you can point to and say "this outweighs the mediocre record, the lack of preparation, the 'what the WHAT?!?!' playcalling and lack of heart."

If you like luke-warm coffee, limp handshakes, nougat, beige cubicle farms, mini vans and other things of a tepid, non-descript fashion, then Kubiak is the coach for you.

Kubiak is nougat. Coaching nougat. Boring, airy filler that no one is specifically excited about. No one says, "hey, while we're at the Stop and Rob, let's get some Acme Nougat Bars." No, people want freakin' Twix or Kit Kats or Reeses Peanut Butter Cups. Candy filled with WIN.

Coaching nougat.
 

MojoMan

Hall of Fame
I agree there have been some coaching snafus made, I agree that some of those appear to have been stubbornly made again, & again, & again.

I agree that Kubiak isn't the best HC in the league. But I think he has more upside than any KC candidate out there.

I understand not accepting mediocrity, I understand demanding excellence, & I understand, and believe Kubiak needs to feel a little heat.

I'm not going to make any excuses for him, I'm not going to paint our eminant 3rd 8-8 season in a row as a positive...

I'm just going to say I think he has done more good than not, I like what he's doing overall, & I would like to see another year of it, at least.
I think I basically agree with this. If the Texans finish 8-8 or better, Kubiak will return, and rightfully so. But if the Texans finish 7-9 or worse, all bets are off.

To be fair, it is not clear at all that the Texans will finish 8-8. They have to go 3-1 the rest of the way, which will require a victory over either New England (7-5), or on the road at Miami (6-6). The Texans are not going to be favored to win either of these games.
 

IlliniJen

Hall of Fame
I think I basically agree with this. If the Texans finish 8-8 or better, Kubiak will return, and rightfully so. But if the Texans finish 7-9 or worse, all bets are off.

To be fair, it is not clear at all that the Texans will finish 8-8. They have to go 3-1 the rest of the way, which will require a victory over either New England (7-5), or on the road at Miami (6-6). The Texans are not going to be favored to win either of these games.
What is the HUGE difference between 8-8 and 7-9 that would mean one says we keep Kubiak and the other says we fire him?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Because this makes no sense to me. 7-9 is a losing season, but 8-8 is not TECHNICALLY a losing season in name only. It's still indicative of a trend of mediocrity. There are NO SIGNS that another year of Kubiak would be any different. None whatsoever. But people want to get kicked in the jimmy and say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

No friends, not me.
 

TexCanada

All Pro
What is the HUGE difference between 8-8 and 7-9 that would mean one says we keep Kubiak and the other says we fire him?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Because this makes no sense to me. 7-9 is a losing season, but 8-8 is not TECHNICALLY a losing season in name only. It's still indicative of a trend of mediocrity. There are NO SIGNS that another year of Kubiak would be any different. None whatsoever. But people want to get kicked in the jimmy and say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

No friends, not me.
Agreed. My standards are higher than they were 2 or 3 years ago, so now a losing season to me is not making playoffs. I appreciate that Kubiak has made us a better team, but this team has peaked under him. This organization is stale right now and it needs a shake-up.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Hello everybody. I'm baaaccckkkkk! You're crazy TK. Kubes has to hit the highway running real fast the hell up out of Houston. I like Kubes, but he hasn't been able to get his team over the hump. He's gotta go. Four years is plenty enough. The freaking Broncos lost a Pro-Bowl QB and have a HC around my age, and even they're in the playoff hunt. The Dolphins go from 1-15 to playoff contenders without their best player (Ronnie Brown). Hell, the Texans beat the Saints a couple of seasons ago. The Saints would thrash my poor team right now. Yes, progress has been made but Kubes can't get his team over the hump. That's on him and I'd be real surprised to see him return next season.
Good post.... good points.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I'm hoping we have a new coach next year. If not, I'll make a new batch of koolaid next spring and start over just like I always do. They've been fooling me for over fourty years now anyway, what do I know?
 
What is the HUGE difference between 8-8 and 7-9 that would mean one says we keep Kubiak and the other says we fire him?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Because this makes no sense to me. 7-9 is a losing season, but 8-8 is not TECHNICALLY a losing season in name only. It's still indicative of a trend of mediocrity. There are NO SIGNS that another year of Kubiak would be any different. None whatsoever. But people want to get kicked in the jimmy and say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

No friends, not me.
Exactly. 8-8 is not a success. It is where we were last year. And, we were supposed to be much, much better this year, because all the pieces were in place.

I still can't freaking believe we had a bye week right before an IMPORTANT division game stretch, and we came out and blew it. I just can't believe it.
 

MojoMan

Hall of Fame
What is the HUGE difference between 8-8 and 7-9 that would mean one says we keep Kubiak and the other says we fire him?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Because this makes no sense to me. 7-9 is a losing season, but 8-8 is not TECHNICALLY a losing season in name only. It's still indicative of a trend of mediocrity. There are NO SIGNS that another year of Kubiak would be any different. None whatsoever. But people want to get kicked in the jimmy and say "thank you sir, may I have another?"

No friends, not me.
Since you do not have a "jimmy," I do not know much authority you can honestly expect to carry on this topic.

:)

Seriously though, the Texans were looking for a head coach when they hired this one. Most Texans fans were wildly excited about Capers and Kubiak before they were hired. So, who is going to be the next guy? If the management of the Texans are confident that they will be able to hire a new coach who makes the Texans better in both the short term and the long term, then they should pull the trigger and get it done.

In this sense, the head coach position is not any different than upgrading the RB or NT positions, except that you do not get to try out five or six of guys in training camp for the job, and then keep three on your depth chart to open the season. You have to pick one head coach and stick with them for at least a couple of years no matter what happens, and probably more like three or four years. This makes the decision worthy of a much more methodical, cautious and cool headed approach than what is being counseled by TexansTalk posters here in this thread.

So, looking at it that way, the team record should not be the sole driving factor behind this sort of a decision. It is not solely a question of 8-8 or 7-9. If Bob McNair and Texan's management believe that Kubiak can take the team to the next level, they should stick with him, regardless of what the fans say or how animated they become. If Texan's management believes the Texans have maxed out under Kubiak, AND that they can hire someone better suited to take the Texans up to the next level, then they should certainly do it. However, that is a determination they will almost certainly make after the season is over.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Since you do not have a "jimmy," I do not know much authority you can honestly expect to carry on this topic.

:)

Seriously though, the Texans were looking for a head coach when they hired this one. Most Texans fans were wildly excited about Capers and Kubiak before they were hired. So, who is going to be the next guy? If the management of the Texans are confident that they will be able to hire a new coach who makes the Texans better in both the short term and the long term, then they should pull the trigger and get it done.

In this sense, the head coach position is not any different than upgrading the RB or NT positions, except that you do not get to try out five or six of guys in training camp for the job, and then keep three on your depth chart to open the season. You have to pick one head coach and stick with them for at least a couple of years no matter what happens, and probably more like three or four years. This makes the decision worthy of a much more methodical, cautious and cool headed approach than what is being counseled by TexansTalk posters here in this thread.

So, looking at it that way, the team record should not be the sole driving factor behind this sort of a decision. It is not solely a question of 8-8 or 7-9. If Bob McNair and Texan's management believe that Kubiak can take the team to the next level, they should stick with him, regardless of what the fans say or how animated they become. If Texan's management believes the Texans have maxed out under Kubiak, AND that they can hire someone better suited to take the Texans up to the next level, then they should certainly do it. However, that is a determination they will almost certainly make after the season is over.


Wow brilliant deduction Sherlock. Ok i'll ask you since TK wont answer.

Put the win loss record asside and look at coaching ability, Kubiak has shown no improvement in his four years in that capacity. Has his game preperation gotten better? Has his game decisions gotten better? Has his personell decisions gotten better? Has his clock management gotten better? Has his leadership abilities gotten better? How about his ability to make adjustments in games? Can you honestly say he is a better coach now than he was when he got here?

What is it that makes you think Kubiak has improved as a head coach enough to take this team to the next level?
 
Top