3-4 Defenses multiplying, 4-3 "dying"......

Discussion in 'The National Football League' started by CloakNNNdagger, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    17,647
    Likes Received:
    1,659
    ..........at least for now.

    LINK

    Schemes will become more sophistocated to try to "counter" the "large" 3-4. However, finesse especially "weak" OLs (like last year's Texans) may have continued problems countering these DLs despite increased exposure.
     
  2. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,196
    Likes Received:
    567
    The 4-3 Tampa 2 was all the rage years ago, now it is gone because everybody adjusted to it.

    The 3-4 will have the same fate and a new scheme will come back

    Such is the nature of football
     
  3. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    25,753
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Location:
    Clear Lake
    I wonder if 3-4 is used often because it is easier to find 4 very good linebackers than 4 attacking defensive lineman that can disrupt the Qb and still shut down the run?
     
  4. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    13,032
    Likes Received:
    557
    The Patriots made it fashionable because they were the first to successfully implement & maintain it while keeping key positions under contract. they took undersized DE's less regarded & created effective pass rushers out of them while still drafting interior DL early who fit scheme @ point NT Wilfork & ends Seymour/Warren.

    The way things are going the Texans will be one of the few teams reamaining using the 4-3 which should give them an edge getting the type of players they covet & under contract just like the Patirots 10 years ago.
     
  5. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,196
    Likes Received:
    567
    Colleges need more pass rushers off the edge to counter to spread. Most of these DEs are too small to play that position in the NFL, hence the transition to OLB.

    Dunalp and Everson Griffin were the only high-profile pure 4-3 DEs in the last draft.
     
  6. badboy

    badboy Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Messages:
    25,753
    Likes Received:
    1,036
    Location:
    Clear Lake
    I think the 3-4 in NFL goes back a bit further than Wilfork, Seymour and Warren.
     
  7. sometexansfan

    sometexansfan Blue Bomber

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    17
    Manning never seemed to struggle against our 3-4 :brickwall:
     
    thunderkyss and BigBull17 like this.
  8. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    9,059
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Houston
    Wasn't former Oilers coach Bum Phillips one of the first to use the 3-4 back
    in the day (70s-80s) ?
    But BL is right about guys like 4-3 DTs becoming less expensive to teams like the Texans as more and more of the league transitions to the 3-4.
     


  9. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    17,647
    Likes Received:
    1,659
    Our saving grace may be the fact that in the conversion of a total scheme from 4-3 to 3-4 defense just the teaching time alone it, and the time and trial and error it takes to find the right players and instruct the effective techniques (especially of the nose tackle) makes the transition not that simple of a task. We can only hope that we can take advantage of some of the chaos and our opponents' "rookie confusion."
     
  10. The1ApplePie

    The1ApplePie Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10,196
    Likes Received:
    567
    The 3-4 is actually older than the 4-3, if I remember right.

    It fell out of favor until Parcells came along in the 1980s and brought it back
     
  11. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    17,647
    Likes Received:
    1,659
    For those who enjoy football history, here is a bit on the 3-4 defense.

     
  12. IDEXAN

    IDEXAN Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    9,059
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    Houston
    If I'm not mistaken, Bum Phillips and not Bill Parsels really gave the league its first Lawrence Taylor in the person of one Robert Brazille ?
     
  13. CloakNNNdagger

    CloakNNNdagger Site Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    17,647
    Likes Received:
    1,659
  14. eriadoc

    eriadoc Texan-American

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Messages:
    19,387
    Likes Received:
    2,085
    No, Bum used it to great effect in the '70s, and defensive coordinators took note.

    That is correct. Dr. Doom did everything LT did, almost a decade earlier. He defined the position.

    The 3-4 pre-dates Bum Phillips by a long time, though.
     
  15. beerlover

    beerlover Site Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    13,032
    Likes Received:
    557
    I never said they were the first to use the 3-4 just The Patriots made it fashionable & being the first to bring back an out of favor scheme they had their run of players suited for success while keeping the core group together under initial undervalued contracts. they have fallen on less than steller results lately because other teams are competing not just for similar position players but covert former Patriots because of experience in Belichick pipeline.

    My other point is the Texans can benefit because less teams are using the 4-3 so they now can have they're own run on the players they need, at a discount. but yes schemes are cyclical they come they go, maybe not such a bad thing to be on the leading edge of a new cycle (4-3)?
     
  16. infantrycak

    infantrycak Mod. Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    56,566
    Likes Received:
    3,014
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Well this is one of those can't win kind of discussions but I would have said the Steelers were the poster children for 3-4's.
     
  17. Texan4Ever

    Texan4Ever Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,144
    Likes Received:
    258
    Location:
    The Great State of Texas
    If you look at some the teams that have won or gone to the Super Bowl in the past (Patriots, Steelers, Cardinals, etc.) they ran a 3-4 defense and I suspect maybe the reason why teams are switching. I know, 4-3 defenses have led teams to the Super Bowl but it seems to me that teams who run a 3-4 are more "successful" in the post-season.

    Anyhow, trends come and go and there will probably be a time where certain teams give up on the 3-4 and switch back to the 4-3.

    BTW, what happened to the 46 Bear defense, that was killa' back in the days!
     
  18. painekiller

    painekiller Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    On the West Belt
    The Oilers started using the 3-4 in 1975 and did not change the defense until Jack Pardee was hired. The Pats used the 3-4 throughout the 80s, the Chiefs iirc used the 3-4 with Derrik Thomas. The Saints coach Jim Mora brought the 3-4 from the USFL along with Dom Capers. Capers brought the 3-4 to Pittsburgh in 1992 iirc. The Raiders of the early 80's used the 3-4, the Miami Dolphins of the no name defense fame used a 3-4 in 1972.

    Plenty of teams used the 3-4 in the 1980s. Starting the the 1990s teams went more to the 4-3 to help stop the run.
     
    thunderkyss likes this.
  19. painekiller

    painekiller Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    124
    Location:
    On the West Belt
    The WCO was able to beat the 46 because the 46 was designed to stop the run and make teams throw, which most were not very good at in the mid 80s.

    Nice explanation of the defense then and now
     
  20. JB

    JB Old Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    28,551
    Likes Received:
    818
    Location:
    In Transit
    IIRC, teams started using 3-4 to stop the run. Use of 4 LB'ers allowed for much tighter gap coverage. This was the first rendition. It fell out of favor because a strong passing team would eat it up...

    The second coming was a bit more hybrid and used converted DE's as LB's to give increased pressure on the passing game.

    but then again, i'm just an old drunk with faulty memories.
     

Share This Page