1560s LZ & John Harris question the value of "Draft Position" ?

Discussion in 'College Football & the NFL Draft' started by nunusguy, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers
    2 Ronnie Brown RB Auburn Miami Dolphins
    3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan Cleveland Browns
    4 Cedric Benson RB Texas Chicago Bears
    5 Cadillac Williams RB Auburn Tampa Bay Buccaneers
    6 Pacman Jones CB West Virginia Tennessee Titans
    7 Troy Williamson WR South Carolina Minnesota Vikings
    8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Fla.) Arizona Cardinals
    9 Carlos Rogers DB Auburn Washington Redskins
    10 Mike Williams WR USC Detroit Lions
    11 DeMarcus Ware OLB Troy State Dallas Cowboys
    12 Shawne Merriman OLB Maryland San Diego Chargers
    13 Jammal Brown T Oklahoma New Orleans Saints
    14 Thomas Davis DB Georgia Carolina Panthers
    15 Derrick Johnson OLB Texas Kansas City Chiefs
    16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State Houston Texans
    17 David Pollack LB Georgia Cincinnati Bengals
    18 Erasmus James DE Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
    19 Alex Barron T Florida State St. Louis Rams
    20 Marcus Spears DE Louisiana State Dallas Cowboys
    21 Matt Jones WR Arkansas Jacksonville Jaguars
    22 Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma Baltimore Ravens
    23 Fabian Washington CB Nebraska Oakland Raiders
    24 Aaron Rodgers QB California Green Bay Packers
    25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins
    26 Chris Spencer C Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
    27 Roddy White WR Alabama-Birmingham Atlanta Falcons
    28 Luis Castillo DE Northwestern San Diego Chargers
    29 Marlin Jackson DB Michigan Indianapolis Colts
    30 Heath Miller TE Virginia Pittsburgh Steelers
    31 Mike Patterson DT USC Philadelphia Eagles
    32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State New England Patriots
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=2005&round=round1
    **********************************
    They compared the first 7 picks in the first round vs the last 7 picks of that
    round in the 2005 Draft and came to the conclusion (obviously) that the last 7 were better choices. Interesting. Not to mention the difference in cap resources saved.
    If you really like Draft talk you need to check these guys out on 1560 on Thursdays at 5:00 - 6:30 PM for their Draft-Show.
     
  2. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps the last seven turned out to be better players because they were drafted by better teams and received better coaching?
     
  3. Polo

    Polo Guest

    How could you look at the players up there and the teams that picked them come to that conclusion ?
     
  4. Blake

    Blake MMQB

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    Great point. Who knows how David Carr would have turned out, had he gone to the Steelers near the bottom of round 1 and gave him better coaching, and sat him on the bench for a year.
     
  5. TheRealJoker

    TheRealJoker Hall of Fame

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    Valid point. A player is only as good as the scheme he is put in. Now granted, some players are special and would do well in just about any scheme, but to be HOF caliber they need to be in a scheme that maximizes their potential.

    Imagine Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in a run heavy offense like the Titans employ. Same player, a lot of people would think they're very good too. But they wouldn't put up the gaudy numbers we've become accustomed to from them.
     
  6. Goldensilence

    Goldensilence hipster elite

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    This is exactly why there should be a salary cap of some sort on rookie contracts. I think the NBA actually does it right.

    This way the pressure is eased on the the team for justifying the resources spent on a top pick or havingthem play too early to justify the resources spent on said player.

    I would think the rookies would benefit from less intense scrutiny and could ease themselves into the pace of the NFL. There is a reason why more intelligent picks are made at the bottom seven of the draft and both of those play a big part in it.
     
    RTP2110 likes this.
  7. Polo

    Polo Guest

    Probably a few notches above complete suckage instead of right on the line.
     
  8. Polo

    Polo Guest


    Tom Brady and Peyton Manning probably dictate that their offense pass it so much. Tom Brady in the Titans offense would pass it more than Kerry Collins.

    If you have a star player, use him.
     


  9. Vinny

    Vinny shiny happy fan Staff Member

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    He would have been the same player he was here...just a bad Steeler QB instead of a Texan.
     
    Second Honeymoon likes this.
  10. nunusguy

    nunusguy Hall of Fame

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    I gotta get in line with some of the other posters and agree bah007. There definitely might be a correlation between the success of the players picked and the teams who picked 'em.
     
  11. Ole Miss Texan

    Ole Miss Texan Hall of Fame

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    "Must spread rep" I didn't have to go far to find a post of exactly what I would have written.

    Here's a novel idea: Why don't teams just decide to make the playoffs so they can pick in the bottom of the 1st round and select better players. Why do they constantly want to suck, have marginal talent around their team and then throw a rookie in there and expect him to turn the team around? :shades:
     
  12. TheRealJoker

    TheRealJoker Hall of Fame

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    Indeed, they would still be very good but not "best of all time" caliber like we think of them now. Sure, Fisher would pass more, but how much more? His ideological view is that the offense needs to control the ball and limit turnovers, not throw it 30+ times a game and try to win shootouts.

    Fisherball is still Fisherball with or without Brady/Manning.
     
  13. Second Honeymoon

    Second Honeymoon Hall of Fame

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    If you were to look at other drafts, you won't find the same sort of trends that 2005 showed. I do agree that being drafted later in the draft, is always helpful to a player. As long as they are still given an opportunity to get on the field, a player drafted later in the 1st has less pressure and a better team to fit into. Then when you add the fact that the best teams have the best coaching staffs, you can see this helping a late round draftee further.

    Either way, if your drafted in the 1st Round, your one of the top32 players coming out of college so your a pretty damn good football player. In today's league of rookies coming in and getting playing time, some of these young guys are taking the bull by the horns and making themselves their team's starters from Day One.
     
  14. mexican_texan

    mexican_texan Furry Tractors

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    He still would've been a bust. At a position where elite guys never take a week off, Carr took months off before he threw a ball in the offseason. He wasn't and probably still doesn't have the desire to put in extra work into becoming a starting QB.
     
  15. DiehardChris

    DiehardChris You betcha!

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    David Carr publicly said he was happy to be a backup quarterback. To me, that's the absolute END of that conversation. The physical part of the game was never his problem.
     
  16. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    Spot On
     
  17. steelbtexan

    steelbtexan Hall of Fame

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    This is Carr

    Stole McNairs money

    Stealing Mara's money

    Making millions with no work ethic

    Great job if you can get it


    Does he still have the teased hair & white gloves? That was classic.

    Kubes cut him because of his inability to read defenses. This tells me he's either lazy (not putting in the time to learn) or dumb.
     
  18. Second Honeymoon

    Second Honeymoon Hall of Fame

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    or both
     
  19. bah007

    bah007 Hall of Fame

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    Carr always had all the physical tools. That was never in doubt. That was why he went #1 overall.

    He just never developed anything beyond that.
     
  20. TexansFanatic

    TexansFanatic Extremist

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    That's the thing about the crazy money these guys make.

    In the old days when pro football players had jobs in the offseason to make ends meet, you knew they were playing because they sincerely loved the game.

    These days, a guy might not give a damn about football but if he's got special football talent he's going to play because he won't see that kind of money anywhere short of winning the lottery. The result is a lot of guys treating football like a 9 to 5 gig. Guys like Mr. Carr.
     

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