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Matt Schaub Staying Healthy

Tailgate

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
This is a BIG year for Matt. We bring in Alex Gibbs, and draft a LT. O-line will hopefully soon be a non issue. I do understand that Matt was hurt on a couple of brutal hits and one for sure cheap shot. Even still, I am a bit worried about our investment in Matt and have some doubts that he can stay healthy at this point. Some guys just cant take the hits. Thus the reason I was happy we stuck with Sage. However, I deeply want Matt to make it through this season and really start to prove Kubiak right in regards to the trade. It starts with better protection, check. Now its up to Matt to show us he is not a man made of glass.

Also, how familiar is anyone on the shoulder injury Schaub suffered his senior season in college? Which shoulder was it? Did he have surgery to fix that injury.... are they linked to this past year? And should we be more confident due to him having surgery on his shoulder and feel as though its a mini trend that could be offset due to the procedure?
 
I think we'll be alright. I watched an NFL Films "America's Game" last night about the '86 Giants, and prior to that season, QB Phil Simms had been injured three seasons in a row, benched a season, and then started again in '86. He was labeled all kinds of things, but Parcells stuck with him and the rest is history.

So point being, we should not rush to judgment on MS based upon injuries caused by two cheap shots. I believe in him because our HC believes in him, and I truly think he's only going to get better the more he plays.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think we'll be alright. I watched an NFL Films "America's Game" last night about the '86 Giants, and prior to that season, QB Phil Simms had been injured three seasons in a row, benched a season, and then started again in '86. He was labeled all kinds of things, but Parcells stuck with him and the rest is history.

So point being, we should not rush to judgment on MS based upon injuries caused by two cheap shots. I believe in him because our HC believes in him, and I truly think he's only going to get better the more he plays.
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I definitely believe in this regime and thus believe in Schaub. And I am definitely trying to chaulk it up to the cheap shots in my mind. Fat Albert and the cheap shot in SD should have not happened.

Btw... I know he got knocked out of the second Titans game too... just dont recall how it went down?

But you are right, no one can possibly come to any legit conclusions after one year of starting. Even still, its still a big year for him to prove he can play a full season as a starter considering what we gave up for him.
 
aj. said:
The left shoulder injury (what he's still re-habbing) was not due to a cheap shot.
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isn't that the one where Fat Albert drove him into the ground? if so, then it's up to individual interpretation as to whether or not it was a cheap shot.

I favor the side that he purposedly launched himself and drove downward on purpose. There's tackling, and then tackling with intent to injure.
 
Silver Oak said:
isn't that the one where Fat Albert drove him into the ground? if so, then it's up to individual interpretation as to whether or not it was a cheap shot.

I favor the side that he purposedly launched himself and drove downward on purpose. There's tackling, and then tackling with intent to injure.
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I think that was the first game vs. the Titans...def. cheap if you axe me. Didnt Schaub get knocked out in the second game against them too?
 
Schaub's left shoulder was injured in the game @ Tennessee on a sack by Antwan Odom.

610x.jpg
 
Silver Oak said:
isn't that the one where Fat Albert drove him into the ground? if so, then it's up to individual interpretation as to whether or not it was a cheap shot.

I favor the side that he purposedly launched himself and drove downward on purpose. There's tackling, and then tackling with intent to injure.
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The cheap shots against San Diego and in the 1st TN game resulted in concussions. The shoulder injury came on a clean sack in the 2nd TN game.
 
infantrycak said:
The cheap shots against San Diego and in the 1st TN game resulted in concussions. The shoulder injury came on a clean sack in the 2nd TN game.
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The concussions from the first two times being knocked out are def. understandable considering when you watch those two hits. One, a COMPLETE blindside blast cheap shot to the helmet after an INT by the Chargers, and two... the helmet to helmet crush by Fat Albert when he drove him into the ground that resulted in a penalty. Understandable and both should not have happened imo. I know, the Albert one is debatable sure as being cheap or not...but who would have survived that one anyway?

So it can really be isolated to the shoulder injury by Odom. One play, one real injury to the shoulder on the year. Not enough to totally concern me after thinking it through...especially considering our O-line should be even better next year.
 
I think people can be worried about Schaub's health for the reason he did get injured last year and that he's our starting QB we've invested a lot in (draft picks & $$$).

I myself do not think Schaub is frail, weak, or injury prone. Could I be wrong? of course- but it's just my opinion that's not even based on factual information so take it for what it's worth.

Maybe I'm just really optimistic, but I really do see something special in Matt Schaub, especially being on the Texans. I'm thankful, it's his non-throwing shoulder that was injured and sounds to be healing fine. I'm glad Kubiak did the smart thing last year but not risking anything more and keeping Sage in at the end of the season.

I think Schaub really understands the game of football, the position of QB, what he's supposed to do, and what the defense is trying to do. I think Schaub and AJ are going to be posting up some monster numbers in their career and do some great things.

Does this get you excited!??
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Does this get you excited!??
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INDEED! Having a now 100% healthy Schaub after surgery and a 100% AJ back this year for the full season will only vault our passing attack even more. Couple that with our revamped O-line and Alex Gibbs pure zone blocking scheme with our RB stable now fully healthy along with adding RB homerun threat Slaton.... Our O should be very entertaining with a more experienced Matt running the show.
 
Silver Oak said:
isn't that the one where Fat Albert drove him into the ground? if so, then it's up to individual interpretation as to whether or not it was a cheap shot.

I favor the side that he purposedly launched himself and drove downward on purpose. There's tackling, and then tackling with intent to injure.
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that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit. We all know Haynesworth is a scumbag and has done many cheap things on the field, but the Schaub tackle was not one of them. His job is to punish the QB, sack him, and knock him out of the game. That is Football 101. He did his job and did it within the confines of the rules. Did he put all his weight down on him and wrap his arms up? yes, he did, but that is legal and was not penalized. Sometimes you have to send a message just like in baseball. If someone hurts one of your guys legally then its your job to do the same as retribution and justice.

maybe if our team made more plays like that and delivered more punishment out we wouldnt find ourselves on the wrong end of so many asswhoopins? When Florence cheapshotted Schaub and took him out, what did we do? Nothing except get beat. You can't have that loser mentality and expect to win consistently. We didn't even blitz Rivers after that cheapshot, after all then Rivers may have gotten hurt. That isn't football in Kubiak's and Richard Smith's eyes. Kubiak did a good job keeping the ship afloat last year after the bad start but you gotta be the aggressor more than we are showing and our team is pretty pillowy soft. That mindset starts uptop with Kubes. Hopefully he takes the gloves off one day.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit. We all know Haynesworth is a scumbag and has done many cheap things on the field, but the Schaub tackle was not one of them. His job is to punish the QB, sack him, and knock him out of the game. That is Football 101. He did his job and did it within the confines of the rules. Did he put all his weight down on him and wrap his arms up? yes, he did, but that is legal and was not penalized. Sometimes you have to send a message just like in baseball. If someone hurts one of your guys legally then its your job to do the same as retribution and justice.
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Right or wrong.... he did get flagged on that play. Sure you can call it a BS flag, but the ref didnt see it that way obviously.
 
Tailgate said:
INDEED! Having a now 100% healthy Schaub after surgery and a 100% AJ back this year for the full season will only vault our passing attack even more. Couple that with our revamped O-line and Alex Gibbs pure zone blocking scheme with our RB stable now fully healthy along with adding RB homerun threat Slaton.... Our O should be very entertaining with a more experienced Matt running the show.
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I forgot to add that. I think with the OL getting better Schaub shouldn't get hit as much as he did last year. (even though I would agree our OL was much improved than prior years too).
 
Second Honeymoon said:
that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit. We all know Haynesworth is a scumbag and has done many cheap things on the field, but the Schaub tackle was not one of them. His job is to punish the QB, sack him, and knock him out of the game. That is Football 101. He did his job and did it within the confines of the rules. Did he put all his weight down on him and wrap his arms up? yes, he did, but that is legal and was not penalized. Sometimes you have to send a message just like in baseball. If someone hurts one of your guys legally then its your job to do the same as retribution and justice.

maybe if our team made more plays like that and delivered more punishment out we wouldnt find ourselves on the wrong end of so many asswhoopins? When Florence cheapshotted Schaub and took him out, what did we do? Nothing except get beat. You can't have that loser mentality and expect to win consistently. We didn't even blitz Rivers after that cheapshot, after all then Rivers may have gotten hurt. That isn't football in Kubiak's and Richard Smith's eyes. Kubiak did a good job keeping the ship afloat last year after the bad start but you gotta be the aggressor more than we are showing and our team is pretty pillowy soft. That mindset starts uptop with Kubes. Hopefully he takes the gloves off one day.
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Most times in the NFL it is always the person who retailates that get flagged and fined. Playing legal hard football is one thin but if you the mindset lets do anything we can to retaliate it is going to cost you more than it will to help the teams psychy. Of course I would have preferred someone to get in the face of Florance versus just walking off. But to try and go after them is not a good sign mentally.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit. We all know Haynesworth is a scumbag and has done many cheap things on the field, but the Schaub tackle was not one of them. His job is to punish the QB, sack him, and knock him out of the game. That is Football 101. He did his job and did it within the confines of the rules. Did he put all his weight down on him and wrap his arms up? yes, he did, but that is legal and was not penalized. Sometimes you have to send a message just like in baseball. If someone hurts one of your guys legally then its your job to do the same as retribution and justice.
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You may not like the rule but it is illegal to drive the QB into the ground.

Specnatz said:
Of course I would have preferred someone to get in the face of Florance versus just walking off. But to try and go after them is not a good sign mentally.
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Eric Winston had to be physically restrained by several teammates. People also forget on the Florence play that most of the team didn't see what happened because they were trying to make a tackle. They just looked around and saw Schaub on the ground.

PS--Ben Roethlisberger has missed games every year of his career. Evidently the Steelers didn't think he was an injury prone pansy when they gave him a $100 mil contract. It's football people.
 
I know the fanbase is still scarred from the last regime. But in all honesty it was one year. If it was a reoccuring event year to year and we are all taking bets how many games it takes for Schaub to hit the bench then I'd say there is a LOT to worry about.
 
infantrycak said:
You may not like the rule but it is illegal to drive the QB into the ground.

Eric Winston had to be physically restrained by several teammates. People also forget on the Florence play that most of the team didn't see what happened because they were trying to make a tackle. They just looked around and saw Schaub on the ground.
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Thanks for the info, for some reason I did not see it or hear about it, but I will take you at your word.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit. We all know Haynesworth is a scumbag and has done many cheap things on the field, but the Schaub tackle was not one of them. His job is to punish the QB, sack him, and knock him out of the game. That is Football 101. He did his job and did it within the confines of the rules. Did he put all his weight down on him and wrap his arms up? yes, he did, but that is legal and was not penalized. Sometimes you have to send a message just like in baseball. If someone hurts one of your guys legally then its your job to do the same as retribution and justice.

maybe if our team made more plays like that and delivered more punishment out we wouldnt find ourselves on the wrong end of so many asswhoopins? When Florence cheapshotted Schaub and took him out, what did we do? Nothing except get beat. You can't have that loser mentality and expect to win consistently. We didn't even blitz Rivers after that cheapshot, after all then Rivers may have gotten hurt. That isn't football in Kubiak's and Richard Smith's eyes. Kubiak did a good job keeping the ship afloat last year after the bad start but you gotta be the aggressor more than we are showing and our team is pretty pillowy soft. That mindset starts uptop with Kubes. Hopefully he takes the gloves off one day.
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:goodpost:


I'd like to send Kubiak to the Jerry Glanvillie school of KICK THEIR ASS ..... I guess bounties dont work as well in todays game as they did back then ....

:club:
 
Tailgate said:
Also, how familiar is anyone on the shoulder injury Schaub suffered his senior season in college? Which shoulder was it? Did he have surgery to fix that injury.... are they linked to this past year? And should we be more confident due to him having surgery on his shoulder and feel as though its a mini trend that could be offset due to the procedure?
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As stated by previous posters, he hurt his right shoulder--third degree shoulder separation--at Virginia in the first game of his senior year. First drive of the season, in fact. As far as I know, he's never had another injury to his throwing shoulder.

He missed the rest of that first game and then the two games after that, but he returned in the fourth game. He was clearly not 100% at first as his throws lacked zip. After a couple of games, though, he was back to his old self.

Schaub started 25+ games at UVA and took some enormous hits--his knack, then as now, was getting the ball out at the last possible moment (e.g., his first TD throw in the Carolina game). That allows him the maximum possibility of success on a given play, but makes him more vulnerable to pass-rushing kill shots--in contrast to QBs who cover up and concede the sack before the big hit comes.
 
IMO, Schaub should be OK by the season opener and will definitely be improved over last year. As far as retaliation, I would like to see our team slobberknocker evry single team on every single play to retaliate for 6 non winning seasons. Seriously, I would like to see the intensity ratcheted up on our entire D and on our O-line. If they would all play with the same passion that DROB, Mario and Demeco play with, we would be in good shape.
 
aj. said:
The left shoulder injury (what he's still re-habbing) was not due to a cheap shot.
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Good thing I never said that. ;)

Some of his other injuries that kept him out of games were from cheap shots. He has been labeled 'fragile' by some fans because of his injuries, obviously including those.

Second Honeymoon said:
that play was 100% legal and is an example of the mindset it takes to be a successful defensive unit.
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Regardless if Haynesworth was cleared on that personal foul call, he is a thug and not the mentality we need on this team. Good teams do not need dirty players to win. You need dominant players who are driven to succeed.
 
The only reason Haynesworth was flagged on that play was due to the referee calling it a helmet to helmet hit.

:includeme:
 
HOU-TEX said:
The only reason Haynesworth was flagged on that play was due to the referee calling it a helmet to helmet hit.

:includeme:
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Hence the concussion that took him out of the game... I think justifying the flag. I wish that big guy did not play in our division.
 
Tailgate said:
Hence the concussion that took him out of the game... I think justifying the flag. I wish that big guy did not play in our division.
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Well, you have to remember that we had Flabbygan QBing our Oline at the time.

Needless to say, I was happy as a lark to see him cut. He was painful to watch.:gun:
 
infantrycak said:
The cheap shots against San Diego and in the 1st TN game resulted in concussions. The shoulder injury came on a clean sack in the 2nd TN game.
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Okay, here is some random speculation and drivel that might only be interesting to me.

IIRC, the play before the sack that injured Schaub, he was very much rushed on a pass play. The Titans were in the backfield almost right away and put their hand on Schaub.

And at that point, I was hoping for the next play to be a running play, because the Titans were all up in Schaub's kitchen the play before. And then we all know what happened next.

The Titans have a great defensive line when the fatman is in the game. Even so, I almost thought that the Titans knew actually when the Texans were going to be doing runs versus passes.

There's been speculation that some of this was because of the way that Sherman did run blocking versus pass blocking on the line. That the spacing is different. Often, they would do the obvious formations that suggested running (though sometimes they would pass out of that).

To generalize, Sherman's form of offense suggests "hey we are going to run, and we don't care if you know."

The hallmark of Denver's Shanahan type play has been that you can't tell if it is a run or a pass by the way they block or what personnel are on the field. That TEs, FBs and RBs are expected to be good pass catchers. That the blocking in the ZBS looks to defenders to be the same whether it is a run or a pass. It keeps the defenders off balance when the feel of the blocking is the same.

I think one of the keys to Schaub staying healthy is to be able to get a reliable running game that teams have to respect. In addition, having Gibbs' style of ZBS may help in reducing teams from knowing run or pass based on offensive line spacing and type of blocking.

I don't know if the Titans defense had detected "tells" as it related to the Texans offense, but sometimes it looked like they knew what the play was going to be before it was run. The Titans had one of the best defensive lines in the league last year, but they seemed to give the Texans more problems than any other team--so I wonder if they figured some stuff out.

/just stuff noodling around in my head.:cool:
 
Texans_Chick said:
Okay, here is some random speculation and drivel that might only be interesting to me.

IIRC, the play before the sack that injured Schaub, he was very much rushed on a pass play. The Titans were in the backfield almost right away and put their hand on Schaub.

And at that point, I was hoping for the next play to be a running play, because the Titans were all up in Schaub's kitchen the play before. And then we all know what happened next.
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On that play, Haynesworth and the DE (I don't recall who it was) stunted. Salaam did not pass his guy off. He just stayed with him and didn't shift to blocking Haynesworth. That's why Haynesworth was just running free like that.

I don't know if Salaam didn't realize what was going on and didn't read the stunt but I don't see how that's possible. Maybe Salaam was held and pulled inside. I don't know but I expect better play from my LT. Sallam didn't even try to lay a hand on Haynesworth.

My fear is that a rookie tackle should be even more susceptible to those sorts of stunts than a veteran tackle. On the other hand, if this was just a failure on Salaam's part because of bad coaching, I expect Gibbs to fix this. And on the other other hand, maybe Brown is more athletic and will be able to recover more quickly than Salaam.

I don't think there was really a point to this post but I felt compelled to post it anyway.
 
Double Barrel said:
Regardless if Haynesworth was cleared on that personal foul call.
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Just to be clear, Haynesworth was not cleared as in it shouldn't have been called, he just wasn't fined on top of the penalty. That happens all the time and isn't a reversal.

Texans_Chick said:
IIRC, the play before the sack that injured Schaub, he was very much rushed on a pass play. The Titans were in the backfield almost right away and put their hand on Schaub.
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Agree with some of the remainder of your post, but Schaub was injured on a 1st and 10, 1st play of the drive.

Hero of the game (half sarcastic) Sage then came in and fumbled the ball on the next play.
 
The reason Schaub gets injured is because he tries to make plays. He knows he is going to get pummeled, yet still tries to look downfield and make something.

David Carr hardly ever got injured....because he folded as soon as the ball was hiked.
 
infantrycak said:
Just to be clear, Haynesworth was not cleared as in it shouldn't have been called, he just wasn't fined on top of the penalty. That happens all the time and isn't a reversal.



Agree with some of the remainder of your post, but Schaub was injured on a 1st and 10, 1st play of the drive.

Hero of the game (half sarcastic) Sage then came in and fumbled the ball on the next play.
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I believe we are talking different injuries:

I'm talking about the second game, where Odom got him:

Houston Texans at 04:03
2-R.Bironas kicks 65 yards from TEN 30 to HOU 5. 11-A.Davis to HOU 21 for 16 yards (30-E.King).
1-10-HOU 21 (3:57) 36-R.Dayne up the middle to HOU 28 for 7 yards (93-K.Vanden Bosch).
2-3-HOU 28 (3:20) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete short middle to 81-O.Daniels (93-K.Vanden Bosch) [93-K.Vanden Bosch].
3-3-HOU 28 (3:16) 8-M.Schaub sacked at HOU 21 for -7 yards (98-A.Odom). #8 M. Schaub was injured on the play.
4-10-HOU 21 (3:02) (Punt formation) 1-M.Turk punts 32 yards to TEN 47, Center-48-B.Pittman, fair catch by 31-C.Finnegan.
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It's third and 3. The Titans got their hands on Schaub on second down for an incomplete short middle pass. They were back there really fast. Enough to get his blood pressure up, I'm sure. I'm thinking it is a good time for a running play, a breather, because they were in Schaub's face right away and it is only three yards. Just anything other than a drop back to pass. Please. I'm yelling run run run.

Schaub gets crunched by Odom.

Sometimes when there is blood in the water, you need to get out of it even if it makes people think you are a coward. I didn't like the play calling there, and I think having a legit running game will slow the pass rush some.
 
Earlier this evening, Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick show on 790AM. He referred to Chris Chandler as Chandelier Chandler. When asked why, he said "because he's easy to break."

I'd really like to not have a QB earn that rep on our team. Haynesworth already talks like that about MS. It'll only take a couple more episodes before something like that sticks.
 
eriadoc said:
Earlier this evening, Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick show on 790AM. He referred to Chris Chandler as Chandelier Chandler. When asked why, he said "because he's easy to break."

I'd really like to not have a QB earn that rep on our team. Haynesworth already talks like that about MS. It'll only take a couple more episodes before something like that sticks.
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In all fairness to Schaub , I don't think Albert realizes that our #8 QB is not the same person it was in 2007 .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
In all fairness to Schaub , I don't think Albert realizes that our #8 QB is not the same person it was in 2007 .
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I'm pretty sure he realizes it. He alluded to that when he commented that it kind of sucked knocking Schaub out because they almost lost the game. He never knocked Mr. Mittens out of a game (or he'd have been saying the same LOL).
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I think people can be worried about Schaub's health for the reason he did get injured last year and that he's our starting QB we've invested a lot in (draft picks & $$$).
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we invested alot in Carr too, draft picks could have been Tony Ugoh OT Colts (07) & Quentin Groves (08).
 
eriadoc said:
Earlier this evening, Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick show on 790AM. He referred to Chris Chandler as Chandelier Chandler. When asked why, he said "because he's easy to break."

I'd really like to not have a QB earn that rep on our team. Haynesworth already talks like that about MS. It'll only take a couple more episodes before something like that sticks.
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we used to hear Crystal Chandelier
 
My thoughts:

1. Schaub got cheap shots at least twice last year that contributed in whole or in part to injuries.

2. If memory serves, Schaub also got hurt but continued to play and then got hurt worse.

I think he may have had some bad luck, but he is mentaly tough, he wanted to still play even those he was hurt during the year, but Kubes wouldn't let him.


Big Lou
 
VY didn't even get hit and he missed some time. Don't hear anyone talking about him being easy to break.

Seriously, I think this talk about MS being easy to take out is b.s. I could be wrong, and God knows I tend to defend our players too far at times (see DC), but he took shots that would have knocked any NFL QB out for the same amount of time or more.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I would bet MS missed about the NFL average amount of time a QB missed playing last season. If it wasn't average, then it was not far off the mark.


:fans:
 
Silver Oak said:
VY didn't even get hit and he missed some time. Don't hear anyone talking about him being easy to break.

Seriously, I think this talk about MS being easy to take out is b.s. I could be wrong, and God knows I tend to defend our players too far at times (see DC), but he took shots that would have knocked any NFL QB out for the same amount of time or more.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I would bet MS missed about the NFL average amount of time a QB missed playing last season. If it wasn't average, then it was not far off the mark.


:fans:
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Pretty much Matt Schaub has to prove he's not Mr. Glass. Missing significant time in the beginning of any job is never good.
 
you're probably right, but I sure hope the coaching staff instills some kind of thinking in the front 5 that says "if your QB gets hit, be sure and make that guy who hit him is looking at sky on the very next play"
 
eriadoc said:
Earlier this evening, Warren Sapp was on the Dan Patrick show on 790AM. He referred to Chris Chandler as Chandelier Chandler. When asked why, he said "because he's easy to break."

I'd really like to not have a QB earn that rep on our team. Haynesworth already talks like that about MS. It'll only take a couple more episodes before something like that sticks.
Click to expand...

In all fairness Chandler did take a less talented Falcons team to the Super Bowl.

How many Super Bowls did Warren Moon play in?
 
eriadoc said:
I'd really like to not have a QB earn that rep on our team. Haynesworth already talks like that about MS. It'll only take a couple more episodes before something like that sticks.
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Not very nice of me to say, but I hope one of these cut blocks turns into a chop block on Haynesworth. I don't like that guy for a variety of reasons.
 
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