Bull Pen 1
All Pro
OK, I'll start it, now that Steve McNair retired from the Ravens, maybe the Ravins will give up a 2nd rounder for Sage.
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Trade Sage Thread?
- Thread starter Bull Pen 1
- Start date
Bull Pen 1
All Pro
The Ravens pick # 8 in the first, I'm guessing in 8 in the 2nd also or somewhere near # 8.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
#38 overall pick
P
Polo
Guest
I'd rather not give up Sage, but if the price is right you gotta strike while the irons hot...
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
A 2nd round pick sounds mighty temptin'...I'd jump at it.
Yep! I don't want to lose him either, (especially when Schaub wasn't the healthiest guy in the world for us last year) but if the deal is too good to pass, you take it.
Do NOT be surprised to see us making moves on Draft Day.
If we could get #8 in the 2nd round, that would be tempting. I dunno anything about the Ravens offense, wonder if Sage is a fit for what they run ?
Yeah, you do. It's called depth.
brakos82
Yaters Gonna Yate.
QFT
DiehardChris
You betcha!
I'm in total agreement.
I like Sage but if Balt. offered no.38 I would take it.
On draft day I would wait & if a player was there that I liked in the 3rd round (Molden or Johnston) & Balt. offered a 3rd I would make the deal.
I think this is what Smithiak are waiting on come draft day.
Don't overlook the Packers as a trading partner, particularly since the Vikings have expressed an interest and we signed Quinn Gray out from under them.
I'm definitely in the "trade Sage" camp if we can do as well as a third-rounder. My guess is that this time next year we'd be lucky to get a fifth-rounder for him. Buy low, sell high.
I'm definitely in the "trade Sage" camp if we can do as well as a third-rounder. My guess is that this time next year we'd be lucky to get a fifth-rounder for him. Buy low, sell high.
awtysst
Draft Guru
Why would Balti trade a second for Sage when they can draft Henne with their sec0ond rounder? Doesn't make too much sense to me. I think Henne could be a great fit for them along with a studly LT they get in the first, so doesn't seem very smart to trade away their 2nd to us. If they offer, I'd be all over it since we could go LT in round 1, or grab LB Rivers to team with Meco, and then grab a Cason or Flowers in round 2.
If Minne traded their second, we could be looking at Cason, FLowers, Forte.
I think that Schaub not being able to go a whole season is somewhat blown out of proportion. He had a couple of bad breaks with his injuries. With a stronger Oline and more time to gel, I think he will be just fine. I also believe that Sage is at his highest in terms of trade value since we saw him go out and win games. If Schaub stays healthy and plays well(which si what we all want), Sage sits on the bench and is value decreases and he is a year older. I say trade high and get starters out of it.
If Minne traded their second, we could be looking at Cason, FLowers, Forte.
I think that Schaub not being able to go a whole season is somewhat blown out of proportion. He had a couple of bad breaks with his injuries. With a stronger Oline and more time to gel, I think he will be just fine. I also believe that Sage is at his highest in terms of trade value since we saw him go out and win games. If Schaub stays healthy and plays well(which si what we all want), Sage sits on the bench and is value decreases and he is a year older. I say trade high and get starters out of it.
I don't think anyone knows what their offense will look like under Cam. Harbaugh's a defensive guy so there won't be any influence from him. Their O-line is a mess, they have no QB, and really no playmakers other than Willis.... I expect them to draft heavy on the offensive side next Saturday.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I'll read no farther. This is good enough for me.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.
It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.
The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.
Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.
Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.
Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.
There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.
I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.
Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.
It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.
The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.
Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.
Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.
Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.
There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.
I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.
Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.
AnthonyE
Lurker
Agreed. Best post on this thread and well, whatdyaknow, it's a mirror image of what I believe as well! XD
Ding ding ding ding ding!!!! Winna winna chicken dinner! Rep and QFT.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Wasn't Carr resigned during the Casserly era? Why, yes he was. Carr should have never been resigned, and would not have if Kubiak and Smith were leading the Texans like they are now.
J-Russ
Veteran
Assuming we trade for Vikings high 3rd and their 6th, we could add a quality saftey, pass-rushing DE, CB, LB, and even LT!
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraftround3.html
Look at the talents that could be there in the 3rd! I would take any of them over Sage "the product"(of kubes) Rosenfels.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I understand your point. But, I think it's important to look at the QB position and the cost of ownership since day 1.
The Texans franchise has dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys, and they can't unload a journey man for 2nd a round pick that they picked up off the trash heap?
There are maybe 5 franchise QBs in the NFL at any give time, and twice in 6 years, the Texans have swung for the fence to get that guy when all the other pieces aren't there to make that big push anyway.
I am not against Schaub, it just was too expensive and the timing wasn't right. But, now it seems that mistake is keeping the Texans from getting some value to make the team better.
It's argueable at this time that the Texans would be better off without Schaub because of the cost to acquire him and his contract.
Therefore, it's my opinion, the Texans Franchise has been hindered since the irst draft pick because of this fascination of the QB position.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Assuming we trade for Vikings high 3rd and their 6th, we could add a quality saftey, pass-rushing DE, CB, LB, and even LT!
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraftround3.html
Look at the talents that could be there in the 3rd! I would take any of our needs over Sage "the product"(of kubes) Rosenfels.
Yeah, there is an article on espn.com about drafting in the later rounds is how you build a team.
It's time to move with Rosenfels. It will be a disaster if Schaub goes down and then Sage comes and falls flat.
Texans love to acquire QBs, but have a hard time moving on from them.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
In terms of would the Texans take the 38th pick - that's a no brainer. They've all but said they would have done the Vikings deal for their #2, and that's several picks later than the Ravens.
As far as the Ravens doing the deal, I think the chances are pretty much zero. There's a decent chance that Ryan will be there when they pick in round one, and if he's not, or they go in another direction, between Henne, Brohm and Flacco, somebody pretty highly regarded will be available in round two.
I love having Sage at the backup QB - I think he's just starting to get the recognition he deserves, but even I wouldn't give up the #38 pick for him.
One last thing (and I've blathered about this before), but somebody made the comment that if Sage sits on the bench all next season that his value will go down. I think it's the opposite. He's valued as high as he's ever been right now, and backup QB's who don't play only see their stock rise. I challenge anybody to give me an example of a highly rated backup QB who didn't play (or didn't play much) during a season and was subsequently downgraded. It just doesn't happen. The only way Sage's value goes down next year if he stays a Texan is if he takes a significant amount of snaps and plays poorly.
As far as the Ravens doing the deal, I think the chances are pretty much zero. There's a decent chance that Ryan will be there when they pick in round one, and if he's not, or they go in another direction, between Henne, Brohm and Flacco, somebody pretty highly regarded will be available in round two.
I love having Sage at the backup QB - I think he's just starting to get the recognition he deserves, but even I wouldn't give up the #38 pick for him.
One last thing (and I've blathered about this before), but somebody made the comment that if Sage sits on the bench all next season that his value will go down. I think it's the opposite. He's valued as high as he's ever been right now, and backup QB's who don't play only see their stock rise. I challenge anybody to give me an example of a highly rated backup QB who didn't play (or didn't play much) during a season and was subsequently downgraded. It just doesn't happen. The only way Sage's value goes down next year if he stays a Texan is if he takes a significant amount of snaps and plays poorly.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
It depends on supply and demand.
Quality QBs are tough to find, but the market for his services could change depending on what happens with other QBs.
Point is, these are not standing trade offers and things could change rapidly, unrelated to Sage's performance.
See your point and well taken.
nero THE zero
All Pro
That's what I've been saying as well. Green Bay has two 2nd rounders and a bad QB with no back-up. They're essentially in the same position as the Vikings were pre-Frerotte (which doesn't do much for me itself) with more picks in our desired range, considerably less holes to fill and a young, contending team which could use a plug-and-play QB. If they offered us #60 for Sage I think we'd have to take it.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Sage just turned 30, and I don't think at the QB position that it's that big a factor. Especially when you throw in the fact that he's taken very little in the way of punishment on his body.
On the whole, I agree with this post. If the Ravens offered the 38th pick for Sage, Rick Smith would be all over it. No question. But until we get that kind of offer, holding onto the best backup this side of Kurt Warner just makes sense to me. I checked out the list of projected 3rd rounders and there isn't a one of those rookies I'd trade an experienced backup like Sage for, straight up.
I also agree that Sage's value should do nothing but go up as we get into T/C and preseason when QBs on other teams start getting banged up.
bckey
All Pro
I heard Todd McShay talking today on the Herd and he thinks all the top Tackles (Long, Clady, Otah, Williams)will be gone no later than pick 15. Albert is gonna be gone most likely too. I was thinking maybe the Texans might try and move up to Chicago's #14 slot by trading Sage to them for swapping 1st round picks and getting their 3rd. Would you do it if it meant the last of the top tackle prospects was about to be drafted just ahead of you?
Read this article about mocks. I posted it in another thread but it is really enlightening on how important mocks are to nfl teams to use as a tool to help them determine where a player they have targeted will go. So if the Texans have a LT targeted it might help you in determining what you think the Texans would do.
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49367
Read this article about mocks. I posted it in another thread but it is really enlightening on how important mocks are to nfl teams to use as a tool to help them determine where a player they have targeted will go. So if the Texans have a LT targeted it might help you in determining what you think the Texans would do.
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49367
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
agreed: You get the offer for the 38...you do the deal.
Great #2 Qb is a luxuary. Some of y'all need to make up your minds....do you want to win the division or do you want to stock pile QBs ? I doubt that Baltimore makes the deal. The only mind set I can think of is that the window is closing on Baltimore prety quickly now. One more grasp for the ring befor they rebuild ? Matty ice is going to need a year to get use to the speed of the NFL game.
One reason ? Sage is locked and loaded...all he has to do is learn the offesive terminology.
But Ozzie Newome has never reached for tallent yet. So again smells like pre-draft smoke.
NFLn is Suggeting that the Vikes are now in the hunt for Jarred allen....if that is true...I think that QB deal is dead.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
I'm somewhat dissapointed. This thread pops up (as it should) and people automatically revert to the love/hate - trade/keep discussion based on whether or not the want Sage on the Team. Since I'm pretty sure that this discussion is the EXACT same as we had a month ago concerning a trade to the Vikings, why not make this one about whether Sage COULD get traded, and not so much IF he should be traded.
As mentioned, a trade to GB might be in the cards, but I doubt it'll happen before training camp. Baltimore, hm.. It depends on how long they've known that Mcnair would retire. If the news hit them with surprise, they may be scrambling to get the QB position somewhat set before entering the draft. If they've known for a while, They're either drafting a starter (dodgy at best) or getting the future QB to sit through a build-up with a horrible next season.
As mentioned, a trade to GB might be in the cards, but I doubt it'll happen before training camp. Baltimore, hm.. It depends on how long they've known that Mcnair would retire. If the news hit them with surprise, they may be scrambling to get the QB position somewhat set before entering the draft. If they've known for a while, They're either drafting a starter (dodgy at best) or getting the future QB to sit through a build-up with a horrible next season.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I f
the Texan's moved up for a top end tackle, that would be a comitment to the QB poition that they've never made before....I'll believe it when I see it.
agreed only a fool or a baseball writer would not recognise that this could be the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history. and the Texan's history suggests they will wiff one more time.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
To qoute Peirce Bronon in the Tomas Crown afair: six days before the draft. "what the he77 else is there to do ? "
If the Vikes trade for Jared Allen, I doubt they will be in a position to swing any more deals.
Move up with what? A phantom 2nd round pick from a deal that will never take place? The Texans only have 5 draft picks. Unless they dig into the '09 bag of picks, they don't have the ammo to move up anyway.
Kubiak, Smith, and even McNair have spoken out this offseason in regards to finding a LT to protect Schaub. If one is available that the Texans have a high grade on, I'm certain they will make him their selection. Otherwise, they have to work with what they have and hope Alex Gibbs can preform magic.
They have obvious issues at starter and backup.
If the Texans are unwilling to trade one of their backup QBs for a second rounder because they're afraid the starter may not last the season, that's a problem, and an indication that the Texans QB situation is not as good as some may think (*good when healthy). It's not that much different from our current RB1/RB1a situation -- hoping to get one good player-season from two players. Some may call that depth but it feels like a different kind of depth to me.
Sage was not on anyone's radar screen two years ago today. Now he's damm near untouchable. What if Gray gives you 95 cents on the Sage dollar, or even (gasp) out-performs him this summer? You're nuts not to trade one of them. If not, I guess you can lean on the Casserly 'you can never have enough quarterbacks' mantra, knowing that if your starter gets hurt, you have not one but two good backups. Not that 'everything' is wrong with that... It's all about the risk you're willing to accept.
You're not making sense. If this draft has "the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history", then why should we need to move up?? There should be someone we can use in either the 1st or 3rd round to improve upon our group of "scrubs" (who, by the way, only gave up 22 sacks - 6th in the whole NFL).
If you are right about the abundance of offensive line talent in this draft, there's no need to weaken the team by giving up picks we can't afford to lose to trade up a few spots.
Keeping a quality backup, who is experienced in our offense, is a KEY to winning the division. Its not an impediment to winning the division.
'll go on record as someone who would rather keep the QB that led us to half of our wins rather than trade him for a 3rd round pick in a weak draft.
As I said before, if someone offers up a mid to early 2nd round pick, I think Sage will be sent packing. I doubt that we'll settle for less than that.
If by "stockpiling" you're talking about signing Quinn Gray, he came cheap. So cheap, in fact, it makes me suspicious. If he was "all that" why didn't the Vikes or someone else sign him? Let's see what he can do before we trade a known commodity like Sage.
Oh and one last thing, the potential Vikes deal was dead the minute they signed Gus Frerotte so we can stop talking about that.
