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Im going to say it...the wtf cornerback thread

swtbound07

swtbound07

Jackass of Day!
Allright, i've seen it repeated like 5 million times on this board...texans should go cb in the first round, or if not there, the 3rd. We have fred bennett who came on last year, jacque reeves who hasn't even put on the jersey yet, and one of the best in the game in dunta robinson coming back in one year. So my question becomes...why not suck it up for a season and fill some other holes? Pop quiz...who is our franchise running back? Who the F is going to start at free safety? Why cornerback? Its a freaking waste.
 
oh And By The Way, Since We Signed Demps, Correct Me If Im Wrong But Im Assuming He's Going To Start For Us At Free Safety.
 
swtbound07 said:
So my question becomes...why not suck it up for a season and fill some other holes?
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1) The Texans don't know whether Dunta makes it back next year. Or ever as a #1 CB.
2) CB may be the position where there is value at #18.
3) The Texans play in the same division as the Colts. Good CBs are always needed.
4) As the Man in Black once said, the NFL stands for Not For Long. "Sucking it up" is an option for coaches who are proven winners.

That's just the devil's advocate position, because I'm not convinced the Texans have to pick CB at #18. If they find a Stewart or Mendenhall there, that would be a good option. If a Clady or Chris Williams falls, that's great. Personally, I don't think those backs or tackles will be there. And any of the top 4 or 5 CBs would be a solid selection for the Texans.
 
Going into next season with Bennett and Reeves as our starting corners is a recipe for another 8-8 or worse season. You got to build your team for the coming season in the NFL...heck, look at the first season when we went for "long term prospects"....hell, most of those guys aren't on the team today. You have to build each team to win right now every year as long as it doesn't have a long term expense...and taking a top corner isn't something that will hurt this team long term unless he is a bust.

Lucky said:
1) The Texans don't know whether Dunta makes it back next year. Or ever as a #1 CB.
2) CB may be the position where there is value at #18.
3) The Texans play in the same division as the Colts. Good CBs are always needed.
4) As the Man in Black once said, the NFL stands for Not For Long. "Sucking it up" is an option for coaches who are proven winners.

That's just the devil's advocate position, because I'm not convinced the Texans have to pick CB at #18. If they find a Stewart or Mendenhall there, that would be a good option. If a Clady or Chris Williams falls, that's great. Personally, I don't think those backs or tackles will be there. And any of the top 4 or 5 CBs would be a solid selection for the Texans.
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not for long for sure. The Ravens probably draft a CB in the top ten and they have McAllister and Rolle....that ought to tell you how important CB's are. Bennett is an aberration (starting 2nd day pick) and we don't know how good he really is anyway. Hell, Faggins looked great in his short time when he first got a chance to play. Usually if you want to aim for a starting CB you need to look at the top of the draft since this is a position that is so hard to translate into the pro game. Most cb's are more like Faggins than they are Robinson and most of the good ones are picked early in the draft.
 
swtbound07 said:
We have fred bennett who came on last year, jacque reeves who hasn't even put on the jersey yet, and one of the best in the game in dunta robinson coming back in one year.
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They don't know for sure that D Rob is coming back next year.
 
Vinny said:
Going into next season with Bennett and Reeves as our starting corners is a recipe for another 8-8 or worse season. You got to build your team for the coming season in the NFL...heck, look at the first season when we went for "long term prospects"....hell, most of those guys aren't on the team today. You have to build each team to win right now every year as long as it doesn't have a long term expense...and taking a top corner isn't something that will hurt this team long term unless he is a bust.

not for long for sure. The Ravens probably draft a CB in the top ten and they have McAllister and Rolle....that ought to tell you how important CB's are. Bennett is an aberration (starting 2nd day pick) and we don't know how good he really is anyway. Hell, Faggins looked great in his short time when he first got a chance to play. Usually if you want to aim for a starting CB you need to look at the top of the draft since this is a position that is so hard to translate into the pro game. Most cb's are more like Faggins than they are Robinson and most of the good ones are picked early in the draft.
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think your dead on subject "Going into next season with Bennett and Reeves as our starting corners is a recipe for another 8-8 or worse season". But Bennett is not an aberration & heck Reeves was a 7th rd. pick just given a 20 million dollar contract by our own very wise & shrewd GM Rick Smith. So I don't think cb is a dire need but will be addressed at some point where they can still find value (2nd day).

your Houston Chronicle & favorite writer John McClain now proposes Kubiak is focused on addressing LT, ah no kidding. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/5666927.html

the thing that strikes fear into my heart about this is "Alex likes to say he wants ugly guys who play hard". ok big uglies who play hard. one meaning they don't need to be athletic, but need to play hard Sam Baker fits that mold. not worth 1st rd. pick certainly not #18. makes me feel less inlcined the 1st rd. selection will in fact be a LT. maybe 3rd/4th rd. another big ugly, non athletic high motor tackle prospect like Toledo OT John Greco?

so in the final analysis, all the lip service yada, yada, yada the disinformation trail leads us to the safest, starting addition to the Texans who fits both talent, need & character wise is after all Jonathan Stewart #28.
 
Well I'm not going to say will not....The RB they might have occassion to stare down with the eighteen represents a clear value.

What's also true is that there is a herd of them past the first hand full....with a coach who places value at finding them in the herd and cutting one out. Is stewart a far better value with the 18 contract than Kelvin Smith or Matt Forte with a third round contract ? What if Smith falls and you get him under a forth round deal ?
Smith does indeed become a Curtus Martin like clone ? I think Kubes is placing value @ Rb ahead of the sure thing potential. I dunnno just what I believe. If the toe heals properly Stewart represents a better player at the position than they'll probably have a shot at in the draft in the near future...say untill '10. I guess it comes down to how much you value the bird in the hand. They have a stable of RBs. What they don't currently have is a sure thing back up OLT or a #1 CB. You'd think those two would come first.
 
"Sucking it up" involves us being last in interceptions again, one of the worst passing defenses in the NFL, and having a losing record.

Reeves and Bennett as starters is already below average. Then you look at our depth behind these two. It's scary.
 
I believe we will pick atleast 2 cb's in the draft.

Who knows which rds.

They are going to pick the BPA that fits their scheme in rd.1.
 
I'm kinda with you SWT...

I'd rather see us draft a LT, RB, or LB...

But frankly I don't care what we draft as long as it's a player that will make an impact...If CB is the BPA when we pick, then I won't complain w/ the pick.
 
threetoedpete said:
What they don't currently have is a sure thing back up OLT or a #1 CB. You'd think those two would come first.
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I agree, heck we all agree. but is a 3rd corner going to be that much worse than what's left over after a run on them? Cason/Talib? same holds true with OT's which looks more & more like teams will address their offensive lines too, anyone crazy about Baker or Duane Brown that high in the 1st rd.? looks like a great year to trade down, but so does everyone else. worst case- nothing wrong with taking bpa. because consensus dictates there is a glut of RB's so teams can pass addressing need early then come back latter for added value this could work to the Texans advantage, gives Rick Smith his choice of the rb talent pool in the 08 draft. so with that in mind, I'd be prepared to mark off my dream picks accordingly Texans 1st rd. draft board-

Ryan Clady, OT
Chris Williams, OT
Brandon Albert, OT
DRC, CB
Leodis McKelvin, CB
Derrick Harvey, DE
Jonathan Stewart, RB
Keith Rivers, LB
 
Beerlover who do you think is more likely to be there in the 4th rd.

Molden or Johnston

I really like both of these guys & hope we get the chance to draft one in the 3rd & the other in the 4th.
 
Charles Godfrey, 6-0 207 4.43 Iowa - is a name you hear alot going to the Texans in the 3rd. he's big & physical a little raw but a heck of a prospect. the Texans have an interest in Antwaun Molden if he's still on the board or not I don't know. I also like USC CB Terrell Thomas 6-1 202 long arms played basicly in a pro style prevent defense four years, I think he is someone not to be intimidiated day one who could start early. I love Chevis Jackson, LSU in the 4th rd. very instinctive as are most LSU db's could be our nickle back. in short I could list 15-20 db 2nd day picks who could compete to play for the Texans which fits right in with our 4th & 7th rd. picks already penciled in as starters, well at least til Dunta comes back :cool:
 
beerlover said:
I agree, heck we all agree. but is a 3rd corner going to be that much worse than what's left over after a run on them? Cason/Talib?
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That's the problem. If it gets down to where Jenkins, McKelvin, and DRC are all off the board, taking a CB might not be worth the #18. I like Cason, but at 18, I dunno. Same goes for Talib, even though he is probably my least favorite of the 5.

However, if any of the top 3 (Jenkins, McKelvin, or DRC) corners are there, I would be pretty upset if we didn't select one of them.
 
beerlover said:
Ryan Clady, OT
Chris Williams, OT
Brandon Albert, OT
DRC, CB
Leodis McKelvin, CB
Derrick Harvey, DE
Jonathan Stewart, RB
Keith Rivers, LB
Click to expand...

i agree with your list in principle. however i think we're going to take BPA of our 4 needs- rb,ot, de,cb.. and from what they've said imo their board looks like:

1. Derrick Harvey
2. McKelvin
3. Clady
4. Mendenhall
5. Chris Williams
6. Albert
7. DRC
8. Merling maybe
9. Rivers (if all those are gone hed be BPA by far)

then if all those are taken.. it could be any of the next tier guys: talib/jenkins/stewart/phillips etc
 
Maddict5 said:
i agree with your list in principle. however i think we're going to take BPA of our 4 needs- rb,ot, de,cb.. and from what they've said imo their board looks like:

1. Derrick Harvey
2. McKelvin
3. Clady
4. Mendenhall
5. Chris Williams
6. Albert
7. DRC
8. Merling maybe
9. Rivers (if all those are gone hed be BPA by far)

then if all those are taken.. it could be any of the next tier guys: talib/jenkins/stewart/phillips etc
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you could be right? I think Harvey would be a better fit here than either Gholston or Chris Long (shows me flashes of explosive real game speed, could add more weight to frame & provide bookend to Mario). McKelvin should end up as one of the better cover corners in the league & if DRC grows into his frame with his playmaking, ball skills could wind up being an all-pro FS.

I placed a higher value on OT because of Texans needs & availablity to fill that position (Clady, Williams, Albert) all three have above average capability to becme franchise LT's & realisticly one might still be available when the Texans pick. names I'm hoping will already be called are:

1. Chris Long
2. Jake Long
3. Glenn Dorsey
4. Matt Ryan
5. Sedric Ellis
6. Darren McFadden
7. Vernon Gholston
8. Jeff Otah
9. Rashard Mendenhall
10. WR Sweed/Kelly

hence Texans draft board:

11. Ryan Clady, OT
12. Chris Williams, OT
13. Brandon Albert, OT
14. DRC, CB
15. Leodis McKelvin, CB
16. Derrick Harvey, DE
17. Jonathan Stewart, RB
18. Keith Rivers, LB
 
beerlover said:
you could be right? I think Harvey would be a better fit here than either Gholston or Chris Long (shows me flashes of explosive real game speed, could add more weight to frame & provide bookend to Mario). McKelvin should end up as one of the better cover corners in the league & if DRC grows into his frame with his playmaking, ball skills could wind up being an all-pro FS.

I placed a higher value on OT because of Texans needs & availablity to fill that position (Clady, Williams, Albert) all three have above average capability to becme franchise LT's & realisticly one might still be available when the Texans pick. names I'm hoping will already be called are:

1. Chris Long
2. Jake Long
3. Glenn Dorsey
4. Matt Ryan
5. Sedric Ellis
6. Darren McFadden
7. Vernon Gholston
8. Jeff Otah
9. Rashard Mendenhall
10. WR Sweed/Kelly

hence Texans draft board:

11. Ryan Clady, OT
12. Chris Williams, OT
13. Brandon Albert, OT
14. DRC, CB
15. Leodis McKelvin, CB
16. Derrick Harvey, DE
17. Jonathan Stewart, RB
18. Keith Rivers, LB
Click to expand...

Beerlover you think Otah will be picked ahead of the other three.
 
Beerlover

Since Smithiak said they really want a 2nd rd. pick what do you think the chances of us trading out of the 1st rd. with say Chicago for their 2nd & an 09 1st?

Chicago takes Brohm.

We take Nicks or Collins

IMO Nicks is the 2nd best LT prospect after C. Williams in this draft. He looked really good @ the senior bowl.
 
steelbtexan said:
Beerlover

Since Smithiak said they really want a 2nd rd. pick what do you think the chances of us trading out of the 1st rd. with say Chicago for their 2nd & an 09 1st?

Chicago takes Brohm.

We take Nicks or Collins

IMO Nicks is the 2nd best LT prospect after C. Williams in this draft. He looked really good @ the senior bowl.
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I'd say that they obviously want to, but the chances are probably very low. Rick Smith is obviously not as liberal as Casserly was; RS seems to be selective when talking to free agents and trade partners.

I think your guess is as good as any for the Bears. I have no idea what direction they are going to go next year. That's probably one of the hardest teams to try to figure out. They have offensive line, quarterback, runningback, and wide receiver problems. Seriously, the Bears have a terrible, terrible offense.

I think if we go LT it's going to be Albert, Williams, or Clady (if he falls).
 
I think Gibbs wants Williams. Albert probably is option 1A.

Nicks is option 1B in a trade down senario.

I don't see Clady falling to # 18.
 
steelbtexan said:
Beerlover

Since Smithiak said they really want a 2nd rd. pick what do you think the chances of us trading out of the 1st rd. with say Chicago for their 2nd & an 09 1st?

Chicago takes Brohm.

We take Nicks or Collins

IMO Nicks is the 2nd best LT prospect after C. Williams in this draft. He looked really good @ the senior bowl.
Click to expand...

a trade down opportunity will be presented depending on who is still on the board @ #18 along with an other teams desire to move up & give back enough value for Smith to consider tempting enough. in other words we'll all have to hang tight until draft day, ain't going to be easy :headhurts:

I don't see Nicks or Collins as a LT fit here more RT prospects. probably for value @ CB or RB. wait for 2nd day to address tackle.
 
beerlover said:
Otah probably not a good fit here, tired of the arguement, plus yeah I think someone is going to take him before the Texans selection.
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I hope some one takes Otah. That means a player we want falls one more spot & gives more value to the pick.

Hopefully one of the LT's fallto #18.


I believe the BPA is going to be a CB @ 18. Probably Jenkins.

Has Hills worked out for scouts? If not when is he scheduled to work out for them?
 
Gibbs is a great offensive line coach I'm sure he would develop Otah, work on his footwork, get him to play more under control & use his strength/leverage in the zone blocking scheme. he is an amazing LT prospect like Clady but both will struggle initially as they adjust to NFL, which is why Jake gets the clear nod as the top tackle prospect, but in a couple years I feel it will be reversed & the teams who drafted Otah/Clady will have themselves the better franchise LT. I'm pretty sure NFL teams will grade them out this way & both be gone by #18.

Which leaves Albert (read somewhere McClain said no way Texans draft him) making him a useful bargaining chip at least for teams like the Steelers & Seahawks. would love to pick up additional picks & let Smith do his thing.

I'm also hoping Rivers rides his pro-day for all its worth & bump another player higher up the Texans draft board into the #18 spot. at this stage I haven't figured out who that will be, its all just conjecture until something a little more concrete leaks out :)
 
I know how some say the Wonderlic test is of no predictability of NFL success. But it still seems to have some value in the "teachability" especially in those not having extraordinary athletic "intuition."

That being said, Clady and Rivers both distinguished themselves at the bottom of their respective positions with scores appreciably higher than VY, but at 16 pretty unimpressive (average intelligence should be reflected at 20).

This Chicago Tribune piece gives other player's scores (including that of the other top OTs in the draft)
 
ever since the Vince Young debacle the Wonderlick has become somewhat censored & I'm not so sure that its been widely circulated publicly anymore. its hard to imagine prospects with millions on the line don't at least prepare or brush up in this area as well as reps & forty times but maybe because its become dated & irrevelant, I don't know. what I do know is that if teams pass on a particular prospect because of a low score or poor interview grades a potentialy great football player may be available latter in the draft than expected :doot:
 
steelbtexan said:
I think Gibbs wants Williams. Albert probably is option 1A.

Nicks is option 1B in a trade down senario.

I don't see Clady falling to # 18.
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you never know with the latest reports of his conduct and supposed intellect although that is just probably a deliberate attempt to try and make him fall some

id think gibbs would want albert if given a choice between him and williams simply due to albert reportedly being a mean mf'er on the field while williams has a kind of laid back reputation with him
 
mussop said:
McClain is wrong more than he is right.
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all I know from what I see, he is the most athletic ol on the board rated in the top ten. Big man moves like cat. Verisitility ? He can cover everyting except center. and do it at a very high level. Hollywood John is telling me we got an O-line coach saying we can't use that...that it has no value....get a new o-line coach...I don't give a good GD who he is. 'Course could be Hollywood John is carring the water and putting out our own smoke.
 
I have nothing against a CB in round 1. As long as he is one of the BPA's.

Ill break it down by possible team needs.

Running Back is easy for me to write off. With Green, Brown, and Taylor on the payroll, a 4th round running back like Smith, Choice, Slaton, Rice would do the trick.

Tackle is tough because you dont know what you have on the left side until Charles Spencer comes back. But with Winston on the right and Salaam on the left with Spencer in the wing, I wouldnt call it a weakness. But we need to make sure our QB investment is able to pay dividends.

Cornerback is the same way. We know Dunta will come back, but how good will he be? And is Reeves going to bring enough to offset having a 2nd year player on the other side. I like our nickel and dime corners.

Safety is a concern of mine because we are so thin with Demps as the only one I care for. CC Brown is on the bubble with me. I think we could do some really good things with a player like Philips rockin some heads.

Outside linebacker is something I think we tried to address with Bentley and Thompson but a player like Rivers could really solidify the position and give us a trio of linebackers that could make our defense very versatile.


I think we could trade down netting us a 2nd or 3rd rounder, take Kenny Philips S Miami in round 1, Lawrence Jackson DE USC in round 2, Chevis Jackson CB LSU in the 3rd, and Steve Slaton RB WV in the 4th.
 
Super Mario said:
I have nothing against a CB in round 1. As long as he is one of the BPA's.

Ill break it down by possible team needs.

Running Back is easy for me to write off. With Green, Brown, and Taylor on the payroll, a 4th round running back like Smith, Choice, Slaton, Rice would do the trick.

Tackle is tough because you dont know what you have on the left side until Charles Spencer comes back. But with Winston on the right and Salaam on the left with Spencer in the wing, I wouldnt call it a weakness. But we need to make sure our QB investment is able to pay dividends.

Cornerback is the same way. We know Dunta will come back, but how good will he be? And is Reeves going to bring enough to offset having a 2nd year player on the other side. I like our nickel and dime corners.

Safety is a concern of mine because we are so thin with Demps as the only one I care for. CC Brown is on the bubble with me. I think we could do some really good things with a player like Philips rockin some heads.

Outside linebacker is something I think we tried to address with Bentley and Thompson but a player like Rivers could really solidify the position and give us a trio of linebackers that could make our defense very versatile.


I think we could trade down netting us a 2nd or 3rd rounder, take Kenny Philips S Miami in round 1, Lawrence Jackson DE USC in round 2, Chevis Jackson CB LSU in the 3rd, and Steve Slaton RB WV in the 4th.
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That sounds pretty damn sweet to me.
 
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