ESPN Mock Draft v6.0 by Todd McShay

Texans34Life · Apr 1, 2008

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401

18. Houston Texans -- Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas

Record: 8-8 | Needs: CB, LOT, RB, DE, S, G, C
Previous mock selection: Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon

Houston has spent its past five first-round picks on the defensive side of the ball, and the team easily could make it six in a row by drafting a cornerback like Talib. While his feet and decision-making skills still need polishing, he is a versatile playmaker with outstanding size and speed for the position.

Second Honeymoon · Apr 1, 2008

Texans34Life said:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401

18. Houston Texans -- Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas

Record: 8-8 | Needs: CB, LOT, RB, DE, S, G, C
Previous mock selection: Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon

Houston has spent its past five first-round picks on the defensive side of the ball, and the team easily could make it six in a row by drafting a cornerback like Talib. While his feet and decision-making skills still need polishing, he is a versatile playmaker with outstanding size and speed for the position.

now this guy is making sense. the value at #18 is at CB and DE/OLB. We need CB more so the decision is made that much easier.

Bubbajwp · Apr 1, 2008

Felix Jones and Desean Jackson for the Cowboy's. That's kinda scary.

kiwitexansfan · Apr 1, 2008

I am also in the draft defence camp, you can win on offence with a good system, the defence needs talent to win.

I can live with Talib, rather him than Cromartie.

ATXtexanfan · Apr 1, 2008

kiwitexansfan said:
I am also in the draft defence camp, you can win on offence with a good system, the defence needs talent to win.

I can live with Talib, rather him than Cromartie.

i'd take that pick, the O was fine minus the turnovers, the defense isn't championshiop material yet, keep building it through the draft, we are in the toughest division in the AFC, we have to stop peyton and his high flying arieal attack yet the jags and titans are two of the leagues best run oriented attacks, we'll go as far as our D takes us in the division and still need a great effort against the pats and chargers in the playoffs

V Man · Apr 2, 2008

For some reason I just don't want Talib. Think it is that he is not that fast, and I am tired of seeing Texan DBs running behind the WRs.

BigBull17 · Apr 2, 2008

Being fast isnt the be all end all of CB. Look at P Buch. He was fast, and did nothing but trail 5 yards behind WR's. Talib has better football speed than his 40 time suggests. He was all over the Q Tech WR's in thier bowl game, and those guys are pretty fast and good, so Im all for it.

PapaL · Apr 2, 2008

The following statement would concern me:

"While his feet and decision-making skills still need polishing..."

Does this mean he is a gambler or he misses assignments?

Polo · Apr 2, 2008

I don't see us going corner in the first round unless a corner is absolutely the BPA left when we pick.

Ole Miss Texan · Apr 2, 2008

My 'man-crush' for Branden Albert is still alive, especially if that's how the first 17 picks go. Can't really argue with the Talib pick though- if Smith thinks he's BPA then I'm fine with the selection.

Some interesting things:
-Jonathan Stewart dropping to the 2nd round (I doubt that happens)
-Antoine Cason sneaking up to the top of the 2nd round (38th overall)
-Duane Brown sneaking up to the 2nd round (57th)
-New Orleans getting Kenny Phillips with their 2nd rd pick (perfect scenario for them)
-Matt Forte not going in the 2nd

Most importantly:
-Denver selecting Jeff Otah over Chris Williams????

nunusguy · Apr 2, 2008

V Man said:
For some reason I just don't want Talib. Think it is that he is not that fast, and I am tired of seeing Texan DBs running behind the WRs.

I share V Mans sentiments, but I know what my problem with him is.
I got a chance to see the corners perform in the Indy combine (thanks to the NFLNetwork). In the CB drills he looked uncoordinated & undisciplined.
He just looked real ragged when viewed along with the other top corners performing the same drills. I do not see him as a first-round pick.

threetoedpete · Apr 2, 2008

V Man said:
For some reason I just don't want Talib. Think it is that he is not that fast, and I am tired of seeing Texan DBs running behind the WRs.

That makes two of us. The guy has p-burnt written all over him. If they are going to are going to reach like this with DRC off the board reach for Antwaun Moulden. If you are going to reach for something reach for the numbers not the loose canon. The elite receivers can make a play with one step. this guy can't even get his feet correct running a Jr. high school DB drill.... after eight years ? danger will robinson. He's going to drop like a rock.

Eastern Kentucky CB Antwaun Molden
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=875770&postcount=1

We're assumming they'll take him in round three ?

Notice who fell to 37 beerlover ? comes down to how many chips you put on that turf toe.

Lucky · Apr 2, 2008

V Man said:
For some reason I just don't want Talib. Think it is that he is not that fast, and I am tired of seeing Texan DBs running behind the WRs.

The Texans were middle of the pack in long passes (40+ yards) completed. They were horrible in completion % allowed (31st) and interceptions (tied for last). Basically, the Texans give up too much underneath and can't create turnovers. That's why a physical corner with ball skills like Talib makes sense for the Texans. The Texans need a CB with size to matchup with the larger WRs in the division like Reggie Wayne, Reggie Williams, Jerry Porter, and all of the Titan wideouts.

beerlover · Apr 2, 2008

Lucky said:
The Texans were middle of the pack in long passes (40+ yards) completed. They were horrible in completion % allowed (31st) and interceptions (tied for last). Basically, the Texans give up too much underneath and can't create turnovers. That's why a physical corner with ball skills like Talib makes sense for the Texans. The Texans need a CB with size to matchup with the larger WRs in the division like Reggie Wayne, Reggie Williams, Jerry Porter, and all of the Titan wideouts.

Talib is not a press corner, he's a cover 2 which is why the Texans have allowed those gawdy numbers. bend but don't break, supposedly :cool:

Lucky · Apr 2, 2008

beerlover said:
Talib is not a press corner, he's a cover 2...

Could you explain the difference before I respond?

threetoedpete · Apr 2, 2008

Lucky said:
Could you explain the difference before I respond?

He's telling you his foot work is so bad he can't cover anyone out of cover two.
I mean Jordy Nelson of all people 217 ,4.6 somehing, blew by the guy on a simple up and out....I get it. He sucks man on man. That eleven isn't going anywhere if they make that pick. Might as well reach for the third round guy with the numbers. I don't know what his foot work is like. Can't be any worse than Talib's. Out of back peddle Talib is toast.

Lucky · Apr 2, 2008

threetoedpete said:
He's telling you his foot work is so bad he can't cover anyone out of cover two.
I mean Jordy Nelson of all people 217 ,4.6 somehing, blew by the guy on a simple up and out....I get it. He sucks man on man.

That youtube clip is gonna dog Talib the rest of his career. Not that it matters, but every corner in this draft has been burned. That doesn't count if it's not readily available to watch on youtube.

BTW, Talib has a lot of highlights on youtube where he covered receivers and made plays on the ball. And I think Jordy Nelson will become a good #2 WR in this league. But, I'd really like for beerlover to get back to me on the specific question.

beerlover · Apr 2, 2008

Lucky said:
Could you explain the difference before I respond?

he does not have a second gear to recover, which as you say everyone gets beaten, the important thing is how you react. he has to have superior footwork & technique, to compensate he backpeddles early leaving as big of cushion as possible (cover 2 comment) then reacting to read/ball in flight, (more like a nickle back or safety) in single coverage this leads to getting behind & beaten badly without the ability to recover against top caliber speed. Have not seen him mirror/shade receivers movement using fluid hips & fast twitch quickness. this being said I beleive he could make a very good FS, he reads then reacts off the ball to sniff out the run, has the size & nose for the football in space but not as a shutdown cornerback.

http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

The CBs play a short zone in the purple zone as above. They do not follow the receivers if they go too deep or too far to the middle. They stay put in their zones.

beerlover · Apr 2, 2008

one last position presented on my defense (leaving for work) quote from Lance Zierlein-

"The Texans want to be able to press and run but last year they had to play zone because of injuries. Just look out there on the field and you can that; however, I'm not sure what their philosophy is with their safeties. As for their front 4, it looks like they are just playing in the gaps and trying to get upfield. If the Texans offered DRob the type of money Reeves got he would vomit. He will get WAY more money than that and I think the Texans will re-sign him. CBs who would be a good fit would be Jenkins, A Molden and J. King. I'm sure the Texans would want a CB who can tackle. If you see a mock who has the Texans taking Talib at CB, I would strike that one from my mind. There is no way that they are going to want a guy with questionable game speed and who has some character issues".

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/04/dungy_devalues_cbs_broncos_a_m.html

Lucky · Apr 2, 2008

Let's discuss what Talib can do and why I think he would be a good fit here. One, I don't think the Texans are married to a specific coverage package. It's pretty rare for the Texans, or any NFL team, to have a guy in press coverage without help over the top. There's probably fewer than a handful of CBs in the league that can make a living like that. When you see CBs jamming WRs at the line, they usually have help. That's cover 2. You can also run a version of that zone defense with the corner playing about 7 yards off the line. That's the coverage you see the Texans in a bunch, and that's the coverage fans complain about the most.

Talib can play either of those coverages, because he has the size not to get knocked off the line, and the vision to make a play in front of him. That's why Talib would be a good fit here. Maybe not on every team. I see Talib as a bigger Asante Samuel, a real playmaker on the outside. Samuel just got an $80 million contract. All the Texans would have to spend is about $15 million on a deal for the #18 pick.

badboy · Apr 2, 2008

threetoedpete said:
That makes two of us. The guy has p-burnt written all over him. If they are going to are going to reach like this with DRC off the board reach for Antwaun Moulden. If you are going to reach for something reach for the numbers not the loose canon. The elite recivers can make a play with one step. this guy can't even get his feet correct running a Jr. high school DB drill.... after eight years ? danger will robinson. He's going to drop like a rock.

Eastern Kentucky CB Antwaun Molden
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=875770&postcount=1

We're assumming they'll take him in round three ?

Notice who fell to 37 beerlover ? comes down to how many chips you put on that turf toe.

Could it be that Talib will do better in a game than doing agility type drills?

badboy · Apr 2, 2008

beerlover said:
one last position presented on my defense (leaving for work) quote from Lance Zierlein-

"The Texans want to be able to press and run but last year they had to play zone because of injuries. Just look out there on the field and you can that; however, I'm not sure what their philosophy is with their safeties. As for their front 4, it looks like they are just playing in the gaps and trying to get upfield. If the Texans offered DRob the type of money Reeves got he would vomit. He will get WAY more money than that and I think the Texans will re-sign him. CBs who would be a good fit would be Jenkins, A Molden and J. King. I'm sure the Texans would want a CB who can tackle. If you see a mock who has the Texans taking Talib at CB, I would strike that one from my mind. There is no way that they are going to want a guy with questionable game speed and who has some character issues".

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/04/dungy_devalues_cbs_broncos_a_m.html

I thought that Justin King had character issues?

Second Honeymoon · Apr 2, 2008

As long as they draft defense I am good with it. Keith Rivers would be a nice play here. We would increase our athleticism at LB with that move. Our defense was pathetic on 3rd down this past year and whether it be CB, DE, or OLB, I really don't care. They just need to fix the defense.

threetoedpete · Apr 2, 2008

beerlover said:
he does not have a second gear to recover, which as you say everyone gets beaten, the important thing is how you react. he has to have superior footwork & technique, to compensate he backpeddles early leaving as big of cushion as possible (cover 2 comment) then reacting to read/ball in flight, (more like a nickle back or safety) in single coverage this leads to getting behind & beaten badly without the ability to recover against top caliber speed. Have not seen him mirror/shade receivers movement using fluid hips & fast twitch quickness. this being said I beleive he could make a very good FS, he reads then reacts off the ball to sniff out the run, has the size & nose for the football in space but not as a shutdown cornerback.

http://www.footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

The CBs play a short zone in the purple zone as above. They do not follow the receivers if they go too deep or too far to the middle. They stay put in their zones.

Which tells me he'd be a great FS prospect. Now this head coach wants to run monters at the safty positions. There's a reason they got a herd of SS types. and if that is what they are thinking...scrape by while Robindson heals make this guy the nickle of the future...fine.... but if they draft this guy there will be a reason they don't send five or six on the blitz all of the time like the board bangs for. He can't bloody well cover in anything except in a tampa two.

period.

Cut the DC a little slack if this guy is the pick.

I'm on board if that's what they are thinking. I believe the pick will be a higher paided petey...that's what I believe. He has no instincts and he has no technique. If we could switch bodies with petey and put petey's head on this guy's body, we'd have a great CB.

So to be clear....he's too stupid to be a front line NFL CB. Plain enough ?

Your telling me the guy is a top end athelete and he can't preform simple little drills. there has got to be reason for that. He's either a hard head or stupid. Let somebody else draft that please.

Lucky · Apr 2, 2008

A reply by Lance Zierlein from his blog at the Chronic:

CBs who would be a good fit would be Jenkins, A Molden and J. King. I'm sure the Texans would want a CB who can tackle. If you see a mock who has the Texans taking Talib at CB, I would strike that one from my mind. There is no way that they are going to want a guy with questionable game speed and who has some character issues.

I guess the first question I have would be who are "they". Whose input is the deciding factor in selecting the CBs from a draft? DC Richard Smith? DB coach Jon Hoke? New special assistant to the DB coach Ray Rhodes? Or is it the GM, Rick Smith?

I have no idea. I do know that Rick Smith has drafted one CB as the Texans GM. And Fred Bennett has similar size and long speed as Aqib Talib. The difference is that Talib is a more fluid athlete with better ball skills, which is why he's a 1st rounder rather than a 4th rounder.

Of course, the Texans may be looking for a speedy, shifty CB to cover the slot, like a Dunta Robinson. But, who's like Dunta Robinson in this draft? McKelvin is probably the closest, and he went 7th in this mock. I just think that Talib is the best CB that could be had #18.

YoungTexanFan · Apr 2, 2008

threetoedpete said:
That makes two of us. The guy has p-burnt written all over him. If they are going to are going to reach like this with DRC off the board reach for Antwaun Moulden. If you are going to reach for something reach for the numbers not the loose canon.

Pete, my respect of your opinion has been going downhill this offseason with draft knowledge. It started before any of the Talib issues, so don't look at it like that, but I used to read your posts just because you posted them. On topic, what Talib and Buchanon are/have you been watching? Buchanon was a matador. Talib is the best CB in the draft if you want run support. He does not miss tackles. I can think of ONE instance where Talib did not make the tackle he was supposed to make, and that wasn't because he didn't throw his body out there. The RB was just bigger.

Let's get onto another issue I have with your post. You want to talk numbers? Let's look at Talib's numbers. He has elite CB size, sub 4.5 "timed" speed for your number crunching, long arms, a 38" vertical...again, so you can crunch some numbers. But wait! Those aren't even the numbers I was hoping you were talking about. How about 4 ints this last year...AFTER being named a pre-season All-America. How about 135 return yards or that defensive TD? What about that Orange Bowl MVP, Lord knows he just stole that because his numbers aren't indicative of that. Let's crunch some more numbers, this is fun. Talib Led the nation in 2006 with 2.80 passes defended per game and was the Big 12 leader with six interceptions while he also led the Big 12 with 22 pass break-ups. I'm tired of only crunching defensive numbers, let's take a quick break. Let's crunch those 5 OFFENSIVE TD's he hauled in while in school. Let's switch gears back to defense again. Let's reach for those numbers a few more times now, don't be worried, I went ahead and did the math for you. Talib has 13 career interceptions and 43 career pass break-ups. He also had 162 tackles, which you know, is quite comparable to a Phillip Buchanon. Talib also has 32 starts under his belts in case you were still trying to crunch with me.

Sorry if I came off a little blunt Pete, but I've been meaning to say something for a week or two now, and throwing some stuff like this out there just tipped me over the edge. Now, I still can't speak for you, but for me, I've counted plenty of numbers...and that is besides watching his every move for those years.

Polo · Apr 2, 2008

YoungTexanFan said:
The RB was just bigger.

Is that really a good excuse for not making a tackle ? :um:

YoungTexanFan · Apr 2, 2008

Polo said:
Is that really a good excuse for not making a tackle ?

It was a stretch play to the corner. Talib shed his blocker and put his body in front of the RB. The RB simply won that battle. Now, since you want to be such a prick about things, name me a single CB who hasn't been burned once or twice or failed on a tackle. Name that player and then name the car you want because you know what Polo, I'll buy it for you. Cut the kid some slack, he isn't a perfect player, but he doesn't make many mistakes on the field.

threetoedpete · Apr 3, 2008

YoungTexanFan said:
Pete, my respect of your opinion has been going downhill this offseason with draft knowledge. It started before any of the Talib issues, so don't look at it like that, but I used to read your posts just because you posted them. On topic, what Talib and Buchanon are/have you been watching? Buchanon was a matador. Talib is the best CB in the draft if you want run support. He does not miss tackles. I can think of ONE instance where Talib did not make the tackle he was supposed to make, and that wasn't because he didn't throw his body out there. The RB was just bigger.

Let's get onto another issue I have with your post. You want to talk numbers? Let's look at Talib's numbers. He has elite CB size, sub 4.5 "timed" speed for your number crunching, long arms, a 38" vertical...again, so you can crunch some numbers. But wait! Those aren't even the numbers I was hoping you were talking about. How about 4 ints this last year...AFTER being named a pre-season All-America. How about 135 return yards or that defensive TD? What about that Orange Bowl MVP, Lord knows he just stole that because his numbers aren't indicative of that. Let's crunch some more numbers, this is fun. Talib Led the nation in 2006 with 2.80 passes defended per game and was the Big 12 leader with six interceptions while he also led the Big 12 with 22 pass break-ups. I'm tired of only crunching defensive numbers, let's take a quick break. Let's crunch those 5 OFFENSIVE TD's he hauled in while in school. Let's switch gears back to defense again. Let's reach for those numbers a few more times now, don't be worried, I went ahead and did the math for you. Talib has 13 career interceptions and 43 career pass break-ups. He also had 162 tackles, which you know, is quite comparable to a Phillip Buchanon. Talib also has 32 starts under his belts in case you were still trying to crunch with me.

Sorry if I came off a little blunt Pete, but I've been meaning to say something for a week or two now, and throwing some stuff like this out there just tipped me over the edge. Now, I still can't speak for you, but for me, I've counted plenty of numbers...and that is besides watching his every move for those years.

Well big guy I'm still waiting for Gaither to tear it up...

TexansSeminole · Apr 3, 2008

Talib just looks like he has terrible footwork but great ball skills. The thing I like about Talib is that he will not drop INTs and as YTF said he tackles pretty darn well.

The thing that kills me is his feet. They are gangly, and they flop around during his backpedal and during his change of direction. I think if you put him up against a great route runner, like Jordy Nelson, he struggles to cover that man. Because of this fault, I think it will be hard for him to play as a rookie, because there are so many good route runners in this league. Put this guy up against Marvin or Reggie in his rookie year and your pretty well F'd.

The other problem is that he doesn't have good recovery speed as someone else pointed out in this thread. I beleive it was beerlover. Combine that with bad footwork and you've got a serious problem.

I would be against taking Talib at #18, but there could be worse decisions.

YoungTexanFan · Apr 3, 2008

threetoedpete said:
Well big guy I'm still waiting for Gaither to tear it up...

Considering that he was a supplemental draft pick, you might need to wait a bit. I'm not claiming Talib to be the best player and our best/only option. I just was tired of you bashing him with no proof or reason. If it's a personal preference, that's fine, we all have them, but when you start asserting that preference/opinion above everyone elses, I'll take notice. It's nothing against you Pete, but I had to defend my guy. His numbers match up or exceed others when all of them are lined up. If you feel it is his feet, I'll disagree, but I have not stats to back that up other than his actual stats in the Big 12. Saying something like that is just fine, but likening him to Buchanon will get me going quickly.

YoungTexanFan · Apr 3, 2008

TexansSeminole said:
Talib just looks like he has terrible footwork but great ball skills. The thing I like about Talib is that he will not drop INTs and as YTF said he tackles pretty darn well.

The thing that kills me is his feet. They are gangly, and they flop around during his backpedal and during his change of direction. I think if you put him up against a great route runner, like Jordy Nelson, he struggles to cover that man. Because of this fault, I think it will be hard for him to play as a rookie, because there are so many good route runners in this league. Put this guy up against Marvin or Reggie in his rookie year and your pretty well F'd.

The other problem is that he doesn't have good recovery speed as someone else pointed out in this thread. I beleive it was beerlover. Combine that with bad footwork and you've got a serious problem.

I would be against taking Talib at #18, but there could be worse decisions.

This is a good post, and I'll be sending rep your way. This is your opinion. I think Talib is just as good an option as other players and is an instant NFL starter.

edo783 · Apr 3, 2008

The biggest critisism/worry about Talib that I have seen is that he isn't particularly smart and may have problems picking up the pro game.

threetoedpete · Apr 3, 2008

TexansSeminole said:
Talib just looks like he has terrible footwork but great ball skills. The thing I like about Talib is that he will not drop INTs and as YTF said he tackles pretty darn well.

The thing that kills me is his feet. They are gangly, and they flop around during his backpedal and during his change of direction. I think if you put him up against a great route runner, like Jordy Nelson, he struggles to cover that man. Because of this fault, I think it will be hard for him to play as a rookie, because there are so many good route runners in this league. Put this guy up against Marvin or Reggie in his rookie year and your pretty well F'd.

The other problem is that he doesn't have good recovery speed as someone else pointed out in this thread. I beleive it was beerlover. Combine that with bad footwork and you've got a serious problem.

I would be against taking Talib at #18, but there could be worse decisions.

No reason..... you're not reading... he doesn't take coching well or is to stupid to take coaching. He's an athlete...not a Front line CB. take the blue shades off and smell the coffee YTF. He is no less of a risk than the kid from Eastern Kentucky. You 're just paying him more and taking him two rounds to high.

phantom17 · Apr 3, 2008

I'll just trust Kubiak & Smith to do the deed! :fans:

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry · Apr 3, 2008

Just got my copy of Pro Football Weekly 2008 Draft Guide and I have been reading it cover to cover. The line that caught my attention in the Aqib Talib right-up was this:

"Very arrogant, thinks he is better than he is and needs to be managed closely."

Maybe it's just me but with as many CB's coming out this year and the talent pool as deep as it is this is the one guy I DO NOT want in this years draft to me he is overrated and I think we can get as good if not better player than him later in the draft.

If you want to reach on a CB at #18 this year reach on Brandon Flowers CB Virginia Tech this kid can play. 5' 10" 200lbs senior. Has a tenency to create turnovers when you need one, GREAT open field tackler and loves to come up in run support. Might also be able to play safety at the NFL level.

That my 2 cents.

YoungTexanFan · Apr 3, 2008

threetoedpete said:
No reason..... you're not reading... he doesn't take coching well or is to stupid to take coaching. He's an athlete...not a Front line CB. take the blue shades off and smell the coffee YTF. He is no less of a risk than the kid from Eastern Kentucky. You 're just paying him more and taking him two rounds to high.

For the general sake, I'm done responding in this thread. There is no use in beating a dead horse.

GP · Apr 3, 2008

Texans34Life said:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401&action=login&appRedirect=http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0401

18. Houston Texans -- Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas

Record: 8-8 | Needs: CB, LOT, RB, DE, S, G, C
Previous mock selection: Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon

Houston has spent its past five first-round picks on the defensive side of the ball, and the team easily could make it six in a row by drafting a cornerback like Talib. While his feet and decision-making skills still need polishing, he is a versatile playmaker with outstanding size and speed for the position.

A testimony to how truly horrific our defense was, from the beginning of the franchise and even right up until last season.

As much as we're going to groan on draft day, I expect Kubiak to select a defensive playmaker in the 1st round...and then trying to unearth a hidden gem for RB in later rounds. Defense, defense, defense...over and over again. If we have a defense who can hold an offense down, then even a weak offense has a good chance of winning the game.

I won't even be shocked if he selects a DL at slot 18.

OL might be the only way he'd select an offense player at 18.

awtysst · Apr 3, 2008

YoungTexanFan said:
For the general sake, I'm done responding in this thread. There is no use in beating a dead horse.

Sorry your comment just made me think of this GNR song

Sick of this life
Not that you'd care
I'm not the only one with
whom these feelings I share

Nobody understands, quite why we're here
We're searchin' for answers
That never appear

But maybe if I looked real hard I'd
I'd see your tryin' too
To understand this life,
That we're all goin' through
(Then when she said she was gonna like
wreck my car...I didn't know what to do)

Sometimes I feel like I'm beatin' a dead horse
An I don't know why you'd be bringin' me down
I'd like to think that our love's
worth a tad more
It may sound funny but you'd think by now
I'd be smilin'
I guess some things never change
Never change

I met an old cowboy
I saw the look in his eyes
Somethin' tells me he's been here before
'Cause experience makes you wise
I was only a small child
When the thought first came to me
That I'm a son of a gun and the gun of a son
That brought back the devil in me

Sometimes I feel like I'm beatin' a dead horse
An I don't know why you'd be bringin' me down
I'd like to think that our love's
worth a tad more
It may sound funny but you'd think by now
I'd be smilin'
I guess some things never change
Never change

I ain't quite what you'd call an old soul
Still wet behind the ears
I been around this track a couple o' times
But now the dust is startin' to clear
Oh yeah!!!

Sometimes I feel like I'm beatin' a dead horse
An I don't know why you'd be bringin' me down
I'd like to think that our love's
worth a tad more
It may sound funny but you'd think by now
I'd be smilin'
Ooh yeah, I'd be smilin'
No way I'd be smilin'
Ooh smilin'

Sick of this life
Not that you'd care
I'm not the only one
With whom these feelings I share

Texans Horror · Apr 3, 2008

Thanks for mentioning he has character flaws. Previous stuff I've read (very little) did not describe him as a guy with character issues, so I had him as the player I most expected the Texans to draft. But if he has problems, no way the dude is on the Texans radar. That just solidifies (IMO) the likelihood that the Texans take Chris Williams and hope that the combination of Reeves/Bennett is enough.

beerlover · Apr 4, 2008

Lucky said:
Let's discuss what Talib can do and why I think he would be a good fit here. One, I don't think the Texans are married to a specific coverage package. It's pretty rare for the Texans, or any NFL team, to have a guy in press coverage without help over the top. There's probably fewer than a handful of CBs in the league that can make a living like that. When you see CBs jamming WRs at the line, they usually have help. That's cover 2. You can also run a version of that zone defense with the corner playing about 7 yards off the line. That's the coverage you see the Texans in a bunch, and that's the coverage fans complain about the most.

Talib can play either of those coverages, because he has the size not to get knocked off the line, and the vision to make a play in front of him. That's why Talib would be a good fit here. Maybe not on every team. I see Talib as a bigger Asante Samuel, a real playmaker on the outside. Samuel just got an $80 million contract. All the Texans would have to spend is about $15 million on a deal for the #18 pick.

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/04/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-kansas-c.html

"He's especially susceptible to double-moves and does not have elite catch-up speed. He's an excellent Cover-2 corner, but he's not a guy who can be left on an island against premier receivers. He does not have the quick hips required to cover slot receivers".

Lucky · Apr 4, 2008

beerlover said:
"He's especially susceptible to double-moves and does not have elite catch-up speed...

I promise you that all of these rookie CBs are susceptible to double-moves by NFL receivers. That's what coaching and experience is all about. Talib doesn't have the speed of guys like Cromartie and McKelvin, and that's why they'll be drafted ahead of him. Sub 4.4 speed is nice but it doesn't make a great corner. Else Fabian Washington & Stanford Routt would have made the Raider's trade for DeAngelo Hall unnecessary.

I think it boils down to what the Texans are looking for. If they want a corner who can create turnovers, they'll take Talib. If they want a corner who can run with WRs all over the field, they better hope that Cromartie and McKelvin drop.

TexansSeminole · Apr 6, 2008

Lucky said:
I promise you that all of these rookie CBs are susceptible to double-moves by NFL receivers. That's what coaching and experience is all about. Talib doesn't have the speed of guys like Cromartie and McKelvin, and that's why they'll be drafted ahead of him. Sub 4.4 speed is nice but it doesn't make a great corner. Else Fabian Washington & Stanford Routt would have made the Raider's trade for DeAngelo Hall unnecessary.

They not only have better speed they've got better footwork.

I agree with you that all of these CBs will be susceptible to double-moves in their rookie year. The question about Talib is will he have alot of problems with that early on, or will he clean it up relatively quick. If he can manage to get himself in position against NFL receivers there is no doubt in my mind that he can get himself some interceptions.

DRC might have troubles starting during his rookie campaign as well. The guy has legitimate questions about the level of competition he has played against and maybe it takes him a year to adjust.

McKelvin, from what I read considering I have not seen him play, sounds like the safest pick.

Lucky said:
I think it boils down to what the Texans are looking for. If they want a corner who can create turnovers, they'll take Talib. If they want a corner who can run with WRs all over the field, they better hope that Cromartie and McKelvin drop.

I agree with you. Except I'll add that Jenkins would fit us well, and if he drops we should think about taking him as well.

steelbtexan · Apr 6, 2008

All rookies are suspectible to double moves.

That is why I would rather take Molden or Godfrey in the 3rd. They represent better value in the 3rd than Talib does in the 1st.

I really hope we take a LT in the 1st. Williams, Nicks, Albert.

How far do you think we can trade down & still pick Nicks?

Nicks has long arms good feet & is strong.

YoungTexanFan · Apr 6, 2008

steelbtexan said:
How far do you think we can trade down & still pick Nicks?

Clear out of the first round and likely to the bottom of the second.

ESPN Mock Draft v6.0 by Todd McShay

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