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Gibbs Talk

P

pappy

Waterboy
Well i need to say this please don't be offended , Gibbs will be a consultant right , he is not the offensive coordinator . There does seem to be alot of people giving him the ball so to speak but not giving the kidd shanahan his just due . The question here has to be is gibbs going to be calling the shots or is Shanahan ? Personally i hope that the kid is given enough rope to mold an offense that he can be proud of and call his own . Now with that in mind does anyone have a sense of what that offense might be like ?:texflag:
 
Neither has final say - Kubiak does. I really think Kyle is the OC in title and salary only, so they wouldn't lose him to another team. I'm sure he'll have tons of input as he should - but Kubiak is going to always have veto power on play-calling.

Gibbs is apparently a genius when it comes to talent and personnel evaluation - at least in the framework of what works in his system.

As far as what our offense will be like, well, there's going to be a heck of a lot of running and play action, just like last year. I'm pretty excited about it when you consider the incredible rushing numbers that past Gibbs offenses have put up.
 
DiehardChris said:
Neither has final say - Kubiak does. I really think Kyle is the OC in title and salary only, so they wouldn't lose him to another team. I'm sure he'll have tons of input as he should - but Kubiak is going to always have veto power on play-calling.

Gibbs is apparently a genius when it comes to talent and personnel evaluation - at least in the framework of what works in his system.

As far as what our offense will be like, well, there's going to be a heck of a lot of running and play action, just like last year. I'm pretty excited about it when you consider the incredible rushing numbers that past Gibbs offenses have put up.
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I believe that this kid will run this offense and Gibbs is there more for Kubiaks benefit than Kyles . If Kubiak does not have someone to enforce discipline so he dont get his hands dirty he could lose the trust of the team . Thats my view right or wrong .
 
At the website, he's listed as "Assistant head coach/offense" and #2 man on the coaching list if the list order means anything..

Perhaps if Kubes became ill or something, he would be the interim head coach.... I would think he would be a mentor to Shanahan and another vote in the offensive decisions...
 
I think Kubiak already has a reputation for being kind of a disciplinarian... not on the level of some of the more famous ones, but he's not soft by any means. Gibbs is there purely to install his famous system, help out with the offense, and to help select players for that system. I'm sure you're right about Kyle - I'm not saying he's a puppet or anything - I just think Kubiak is giong to do most of the play-calling, while letting out the reins for Kyle once in a while as well.
 
DiehardChris said:
As far as what our offense will be like, well, there's going to be a heck of a lot of running and play action, just like last year. I'm pretty excited about it when you consider the incredible rushing numbers that past Gibbs offenses have put up.
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No doubt. I'm looking forward to it, as well. :texflag:
 
Myself, I'm just wondering how much Gibbs is going to "shakeup" the O-line and if we will "stumble out of the blocks" for the 1st few games until the O-line and RB's get adjusted? Or, will it be a smooth transition with everybody on the same page?
 
DiehardChris said:
Gibbs is there purely to install his famous system, help out with the offense, and to help select players for that system.

I just think Kubiak is giong to do most of the play-calling, while letting out the reins for Kyle once in a while as well.
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This is exactly how I see it. I don't see Gibbs as an OC because I don't see him doing any playcalling but more or less evaluating the talent and coaching the Offense (particulaly OL, RB)

I see Kubiak as predominantly calling the plays but that he is going to let Shannihan really give his fare share of duties. I don't think are are babying him at all. Shanny should be calling a lot of plays and has to an extent in the past if im not mistaken, but Kubiak will have final say.

I think Kubes and Shanny will be on the same page a lot, so Shanny will call a play and Kubes will say.. yea i like it (cuz he was thinking the same thing) but occasionally will say, meh lets try this...
 
Kubiak calls all the plays--he's hooked into Schaub/Rosenfel's ear all game calling all the shots. My feeling is Kyle will be in charge of spotting tendencies in the D such as zone/man and run/pass looks from the defense and letting Kubiak know what looks opened and closed. Kyle will be in the booth. I've heard two different stories on where Gibbs will be, whether in the booth or on the sideline chewing out the line when were on defense. My guess is he'll be on the sideline.
 
I'd be a little bit surprised if the Texans expect Gibbs to be here more than a couple of years - three at the outside.

If you read what Kubiak said at the time Gibbs was hired, he referred back to when he was made OC of the Bronco's at a relatively young age (not nearly as young as Shanny Jr., but pretty soon after his playing days), and Gibbs basically became his mentor, and taught him how to do his job. I think that Gibbs' role with the Texans will be very similar, and he'll be helping Kyle learn how to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL.

Hopefully, he'll do his job well, and the Texans will be able to take advantage of Kyle's knowledge for several years after he leaves. I know there's some folks (led by John McClain) who believe that Shanny Sr.'s keeping the HC seat in Denver warm until he can hand it over to his son. I've got to think that both the Bronco's and Shanny Sr. realize that at 28 years old, Kyle's still a few years away from being ready for that.

I honestly think Gibbs was brought in to transition both the Offense and the Offensive Coordinator to a higher level, and while Kubiak could probably do that, another viewpoint, another mentor, and another highly intelligent football mind isn't a bad thing. It also frees Kubes up to do the types of things only a Head Coach can do (whatever those are).
 
Arky said:
At the website, he's listed as "Assistant head coach/offense" and #2 man on the coaching list if the list order means anything..

Perhaps if Kubes became ill or something, he would be the interim head coach.... I would think he would be a mentor to Shanahan and another vote in the offensive decisions...
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Emphasis mine, opinion follows.

Gibbs has been brought in to mold the offensive line into a unit that can run the ball the way Gary Kubiak is accustomed to running the ball, i.e. a Denver-esq zone blocking based running game. Gibbs is also here to be a mentor to Shanahan just as he was a mentor to Gary Kubiak previously.

When Gibbs chooses to kick back and retire he'll do so with Kubiak knowing that little Shanahan has been taught how to be an offense coordinator the same way Gary was. They will absolutely be on the same page.

I don't doubt for an instant that Mike Sherman and Gary Kubiak are friends and respect each other. I am certain that they both know that their Denver-Packers-Power-Zone-Running-Attack was a failure. They probably didn't expect much out of it to begin with (much conjecture on my part here). It kind of fit what we had in the way of offensive linemen when they got here. I don't think it was ever meant to be permanent.
 
Gibbs will not be calling plays--he will coach the players on execution and possibly consult on the running playbook. On game day, Gibbs will have zero to do with the play calls and Shanny will make an initial call and radio it down to Kubiak who is looking at exactly the same play sheet and then Kubiak will call the play he wants into the QB. Most times that will be the one Shanny called, but Kubiak is the architect and final arbiter of this offense.
 
Due to NFL rule changes, the Gibbs System isn't what it was, but will certainly be more effective than the run blocking style we had last year.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Due to NFL rule changes, the Gibbs System isn't what it was, but will certainly be more effective than the run blocking style we had last year.
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What rule change would that be because cut blocking is still legal? They have debated changing it for years, but have not done so.
 
infantrycak said:
What rule change would that be because cut blocking is still legal? They have debated changing it for years, but have not done so.
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I thought they put a new rule in last year to prevent the cheapshots Denver was using (ie holding a guy up, while another takes out his knee). Maybe it was just proposed.
 
The1ApplePie said:
I thought they put a new rule in last year to prevent the cheapshots Denver was using (ie holding a guy up, while another takes out his knee). Maybe it was just proposed.
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You can characterize Denver's blocks as you like, but that is not and never has been a regular part of their system. A chop block (from the side with helmet behind the player or from behind the player or while engaged with another linemen) has been illegal for a long time. A cut block (helmet to the front of the player) is legal and is the controversial hallmark of Gibbs' system.
 
I just watched a DVD of Alex Gibbs from a coaching clinic in May 2007 for offensive line coaches where his topic of discussion was the outside zone play. After watching the video, here are some things I came away with:

* Gibbs has his way of doing things and that is pretty much that. He believes the system that he coaches should stand alone and not be meshed with other systems because his system is based on timing and repetition and it requires plenty of practice.

* I don't believe Gibbs would have agreed to come out of retirement if he wasn't going to be allowed to implement what he believes will work for the Texans. He's coming in with a purpose and my guess is that purpose is to teach and implement his zone concepts and that extends to not just o-linemen but also RBs (how to approach the read and the initial decision) and WRs (in blocking).

* I now see why RBs are devalued in this system. He wants his RBs to make their decision by their 3rd total step (it takes 1.5 steps to get the ball on the handoff) and the decision in the wide zone is to bounce it outside or cut it back. To be a successful RB it takes burst, decisiveness and guts to hit back inside with authority. Making a good read is essential as well. It doesn't necessarily take an elite back to do these things. RBs who dance around (Morency) after taking the handoff won't fit into this scheme.

* If you are a WR and you aren't interested in getting after the safety on zone plays when it comes to blocking, then he won't be a fan of yours. And you don't want to be on his (bleep) list.

* If the RBs and the offensive linemen are not working in tandem, then this scheme will look very bad from time to time. In other words, RBs can make the linemen look bad if they don't make the proper reads.


Gibbs isn't going to be the offensive coordinator and he's not picking the players. I do, however, think he has the complete and total trust of Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak and I think that they will be more than happy to consult with him on which guys are good fits. More importantly, I think Kubiak basically went to "the master" to get him to install the system that he wants and get it going properly before he (Gibbs) bows out.
 
infantrycak said:
You can characterize Denver's blocks as you like, but that is not and never has been a regular part of their system. A chop block (from the side with helmet behind the player or from behind the player or while engaged with another linemen) has been illegal for a long time. A cut block (helmet to the front of the player) is legal and is the controversial hallmark of Gibbs' system.
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The chop block is also a hallmark of Gibbs' system, especially in his time in Denver. They would hold a guy until the last possible second, then let him go and the other guy would crush his knee. So, basically, he found a way around the chop block rules, but the timing has to be right.

Maybe its Gibbs (but I never noticed in in Atlanta) or just individual players, but Denver guys to this day try to intentionally injure defenders.
 
LZ said:
* If you are a WR and you aren't interested in getting after the safety on zone plays when it comes to blocking, then he won't be a fan of yours. And you don't want to be on his (bleep) list.
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Thanks for sharing in total, but I was drawn to the WR bullet.

I trust Jacoby has the desire, but if there is one hang up I have on small school guys it is the small things which they were not called on to perform such as a WR finding and hitting a Safety.
 
"Cut Blocks" are legal but there is still most certainly a stigma associated with them and I've even heard OLineman including a couple with the Texans talk about using the technique on opposing defensive players with obvious disdain.
 
LZ said:
I just watched a DVD of Alex Gibbs from a coaching clinic in May 2007 for offensive line coaches where his topic of discussion was the outside zone play. After watching the video, here are some things I came away with:

* Gibbs has his way of doing things and that is pretty much that. He believes the system that he coaches should stand alone and not be meshed with other systems because his system is based on timing and repetition and it requires plenty of practice.




Gibbs isn't going to be the offensive coordinator and he's not picking the players. I do, however, think he has the complete and total trust of Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak and I think that they will be more than happy to consult with him on which guys are good fits. More importantly, I think Kubiak basically went to "the master" to get him to install the system that he wants and get it going properly before he (Gibbs) bows out.
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Nice. Like having you here. :cool:

Your first point about not meshing with other systems is EXACTLY what wasn't working for a consistent running game under Sherman.

As to your first point, little Shanny in a clinic said that it is absolutely essential for the Denver system for the blocking to appear to defenders to be the same whether it is a run or a pass. Even if it feels like the tackle should seal off the end more on a naked boot.

He says that by making the blocking the same, defenders "feel" run, and play run, even when it is going to be a pass. Of course, I heard him talk about this the summer before Sherman instituted a blocking scheme that wasn't like that at all.

Though Alex Gibbs gets tons of credit for making the Denver line work, I've been told by Denver friends that RB coach Bobby Turner should get credit for having an eye for what sorts of backs may work in the system and coaching them up quickly in that system. Portis got in trouble early on for dancing, but they scared him out of that.
 
Just wanted to say that I played in a Gibbs style ZBS in High School, and it was the most fun I had playing O-Line:whip:

Though, it sucked being a D-Lineman on scout team when I was a junior. I still don't think my knees have recorvered
 
LZ said:
I just watched a DVD of Alex Gibbs from a coaching clinic in May 2007 for offensive line coaches where his topic of discussion was the outside zone play. After watching the video, here are some things I came away with:

* Gibbs has his way of doing things and that is pretty much that. He believes the system that he coaches should stand alone and not be meshed with other systems because his system is based on timing and repetition and it requires plenty of practice.

* I don't believe Gibbs would have agreed to come out of retirement if he wasn't going to be allowed to implement what he believes will work for the Texans. He's coming in with a purpose and my guess is that purpose is to teach and implement his zone concepts and that extends to not just o-linemen but also RBs (how to approach the read and the initial decision) and WRs (in blocking).

* I now see why RBs are devalued in this system. He wants his RBs to make their decision by their 3rd total step (it takes 1.5 steps to get the ball on the handoff) and the decision in the wide zone is to bounce it outside or cut it back. To be a successful RB it takes burst, decisiveness and guts to hit back inside with authority. Making a good read is essential as well. It doesn't necessarily take an elite back to do these things. RBs who dance around (Morency) after taking the handoff won't fit into this scheme.

* If you are a WR and you aren't interested in getting after the safety on zone plays when it comes to blocking, then he won't be a fan of yours. And you don't want to be on his (bleep) list.

* If the RBs and the offensive linemen are not working in tandem, then this scheme will look very bad from time to time. In other words, RBs can make the linemen look bad if they don't make the proper reads.


Gibbs isn't going to be the offensive coordinator and he's not picking the players. I do, however, think he has the complete and total trust of Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak and I think that they will be more than happy to consult with him on which guys are good fits. More importantly, I think Kubiak basically went to "the master" to get him to install the system that he wants and get it going properly before he (Gibbs) bows out.
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I think Darius Walker is a good example of this, while he may not be a speed guy, he has enough burst to get through the hole quickly and the with the limited playing time he got I thought he showed very good vision and decision making when to bend one back and go. I think he could have a LOT of success in this system.
 
Hardcore Texan said:
I think Darius Walker is a good example of this, while he may not be a speed guy, he has enough burst to get through the hole quickly and the with the limited playing time he got I thought he showed very good vision and decision making when to bend one back and go. I think he could have a LOT of success in this system.
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That is funny because his first two year at Notre Dame a lot of us thought he did exactly what a ZBS back is supposed to do, but his third and final year he seemed to hesitate and dance around to much. Not sure if this was because he had already planned on leaving school early or injury. Whatever it was he did not run with the same zeal of one cut and go type he did his first two years.
 
I was not a fan of Walker, but he raised a couple of eye brows last year. He has that look of a ZBS runner in my opinion, but still not sure if that will scale over a 16 game season.

Hopefully we will know what zone blocking finally looks like next year.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Thanks for sharing in total, but I was drawn to the WR bullet.

I trust Jacoby has the desire, but if there is one hang up I have on small school guys it is the small things which they were not called on to perform such as a WR finding and hitting a Safety.
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I agree but the WRs do have the size to provide good blocking down field and can be coached up. I think this offense will definitely focus on the run and a Rb to fit the ZBS as Lance mentioned will be a priority in first two rounds we select in. I think we will see even more productivity from passing game even if plays decrease somewhat. I think the pass to RB will be utilized more and the TE over all receptions decrease. I think the TE will have more first down and red zone attempts. We are going to be very please with this offense.

If Gibbs is here for 2 or even 3 years, I will be very pleased. I see Kyle S. as a very intelligent young man that sees Gibbs as a source to help him become a successful head coach. For some reason, I compare Kyle and former OT QB turned coach Major Applewhite favorably.

As a sidebar, I hope Aldridge from UH is undrafted and given a chance as a spot type player with Texans. I hate to lose a roster spot for him because odds are against him in NFL, but that makes me root for him.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I was not a fan of Walker, but he raised a couple of eye brows last year. He has that look of a ZBS runner in my opinion, but still not sure if that will scale over a 16 game season.

Hopefully we will know what zone blocking finally looks like next year.
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This is why I brought up what he looked like his first two years at ND versus how he looked his last year.
 
Walker more than deserves a shot after his performance last year. He came into a rough situation and made the best of it. He also looked comfortable coming out of the backfield for the dump off/screen. He will need to improve his ability to pick up the blitz but that is pretty much that way with any rookie RB.

I like the guy's game.
 
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
 
infantrycak said:
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
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I think people like Walker as a complementary back. I wasn't sold on DD being a feature back, but I thought that if he was part of a tandem, he would be fine. I don't think many people here want Walker to be our feature back, but more as a 3rd down back.
 
infantrycak said:
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
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I think it says a lot about what we've had to look at around here. I also think that we could put somebody like Darius Walker into our offense next season (assuming a "classic" Denver style ZBS is installed and functioning well) and we'd see very impressive DD type numbers from him.
 
infantrycak said:
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
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I never had a problem with DD. I did have a problem with them resigning him so damn early into his initial contract as some sort of 'your my guy' reward. He then stopped being 'our guy' and we have been eating deadmoney ever since. Thanks Asserley.
 
infantrycak said:
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
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Perhaps it is because DD was initially here to be a 3rd down back and if not for the lack of talent then, would probably be one. In this case we know DW is a 3rd down back.
 
I don't expect Walker to be on the roster this season. If he is it would mean either Green, Taylor or the rookie was hurt during TC. :cool:
 
infantrycak said:
Funny how there was so much debate on whether DD was a serviceable RB and now folks are clamoring for a poor man's version of him.
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Exactly. I don't think Texans fans really appreciated Dom Davis as much as we should have. He is a classic example of a being able to find depth at RB in the later rounds in most drafts.
 
TEXANRED said:
I could never understand people who talked bad about DD, he only counted for 47% of our offense.
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When DD had great days the Texans generally lost as often as when he had very average days. It was because DD wasn't going to kill the opposition and with Carr under center we had nothing else. Hell it's a miracle that Andre Johnson did as well as he did while Carr was here. We got a small taste last year of how he might have been producing all along if he'd had a real NFL offense (and QB) to work with.

Teams were content to funnel our offense through DD and control us. In a sense many of his biggest days were something of an "optical illusion". I'm not saying that he couldn't be dangerous. I'm just saying that without anything else to compliment him he wasn't dangerous and other teams knew it, hence the big stats.

I'd say in the offense we're about to have DD (healthy) would have been a real weapon and been a 1500 (give or take) yard back for as long as his body could hold up.
 
Hervoyel said:
It was because DD wasn't going to kill the opposition and with Carr under center we had nothing else.

I'd say in the offense we're about to have DD (healthy) would have been a real weapon and been a 1500 (give or take) yard back for as long as his body could hold up.
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What I was getting at earlier was the relative talent, but I think you nailed it. DD wasn't a star who could carry a team, but he was definitely a dual threat RB. Imagine the play-action and bootlegs Schaub could run with that threat and then it becomes synergistic with them not being able to key the run and it opening up.
 
Hervoyel said:
When DD had great days the Texans generally lost as often as when he had very average days. It was because DD wasn't going to kill the opposition and with Carr under center we had nothing else. Hell it's a miracle that Andre Johnson did as well as he did while Carr was here. We got a small taste last year of how he might have been producing all along if he'd had a real NFL offense (and QB) to work with.

Teams were content to funnel our offense through DD and control us. In a sense many of his biggest days were something of an "optical illusion". I'm not saying that he couldn't be dangerous. I'm just saying that without anything else to compliment him he wasn't dangerous and other teams knew it, hence the big stats.

I'd say in the offense we're about to have DD (healthy) would have been a real weapon and been a 1500 (give or take) yard back for as long as his body could hold up.
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My memory is fuzzy, but could DD pick up a blitz? I wonder if he would be a RB that Kubiak likes because of this very important aspect of our current offensive philosophy.

I'm glad they've brought Gibbs into the fold. I we never a fan of the hybrid Kubiak/Sherman style of blocking. Gibbs is a no-B.S. coach and knows what he needs to do.
 
Double Barrel said:
My memory is fuzzy, but could DD pick up a blitz? I wonder if he would be a RB that Kubiak likes because of this very important aspect of our current offensive philosophy.

I'm glad they've brought Gibbs into the fold. I we never a fan of the hybrid Kubiak/Sherman style of blocking. Gibbs is a no-B.S. coach and knows what he needs to do.
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Davis was a worthless blocker if I remember it right.
 
Vinny said:
Davis was a worthless blocker if I remember it right.
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infantrycak said:
Worthless might be a bit strong, but he sure wasn't going to win any accolades for his blocking skill. Definitely weakest part of his game.
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That's what I thought I kind of remembered...so basically, DD would probably have not been the 'ideal' back for Kubiak's system? It seems to me that he wants a one-cut back with some blocking skills and a good head to pick up the blitz. Is that a fair assessment?
 
Question: Was DD terrible at picking up a blitz or does he also get the benefit of the doubt because Carr was better at running into a blitz than any QB to ever play the game?

I thought he was good for picking up a blitz around 30% of the time but then if you factor in that David Carr was the one who was getting blitzed that probably climbs up into the mid 60% range.

Also he was more accustomed to being the "safety valve" (AKA: the guy you throw to when AJ is covered if you haven't already run into a defender) so DD wasn't asked to pickup the blitz as often.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Yes... See ah...man, Green is hurt again...

Seriously though, if you take the injuries and age away from Green, he posseses the type of attributes that you outlined.
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Yea and if I were younger, thinner, in better shape, and possessed more athletic skill, I too could be a pretty darn good RB.
 
Hervoyel said:
Question: Was DD terrible at picking up a blitz or does he also get the benefit of the doubt because Carr was better at running into a blitz than any QB to ever play the game?

I thought he was good for picking up a blitz around 30% of the time but then if you factor in that David Carr was the one who was getting blitzed that probably climbs up into the mid 60% range.

Also he was more accustomed to being the "safety valve" (AKA: the guy you throw to when AJ is covered if you haven't already run into a defender) so DD wasn't asked to pickup the blitz as often.
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DD was actually one of our best RB's at picking up the blitz. But as you pointed out, if you are a "safety valve" for Carr, you had about 5 seconds at best to be prepared to receive the ball......you couldn't afford to get tied up with incoming D. Besides that fact, if you remember at that time, whether because of our OL personel or scheme (for whatever reason you want to give) not uncommonly was more than one D allowed to penetrate into the back field. In other words, it would have been difficult for any RB to have looked like they were skilled in picking up the blitz. I would say that a DD type would do quite well running well and demonstrating good blitz pickup in our present scheme and personel.
 
Double Barrel said:
That's what I thought I kind of remembered...so basically, DD would probably have not been the 'ideal' back for Kubiak's system? It seems to me that he wants a one-cut back with some blocking skills and a good head to pick up the blitz. Is that a fair assessment?
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Blocking was not his gig, but as Herv points out, much of the time he was only called upon to chip and go to be the safety valve. For perspective though, keep this in mind. After the Texans drafted DD, Shanahan told Casserly they had intended to take him a few picks later and that we had just drafted a heck of a RB. They were going to draft him as a RB while we were told he was a returner/3rd down back.

CloakNNNdagger said:
DD was actually one of our best RB's at picking up the blitz.
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I'm a pretty big DD fan but that is over the top. The best you can argue for is ok. Green has a justified reputation for blocking. DD was serviceable in that regard. Now maybe something could be said of what if he had received better coaching in that regard.
 
infantrycak said:
I'm a pretty big DD fan but that is over the top. The best you can argue for is ok. Green has a justified reputation for blocking. DD was serviceable in that regard. Now maybe something could be said of what if he had received better coaching in that regard.
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In fairness your comparing DD to James Allen, Stacy Mack, Dayne, and Gado. Green doesn't count, he only played three games.
 
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