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Gibbs and the O-line

Dallas_Texan

Dallas_Texan

Waterboy
I've heard a lot of coaches like to send unproven O-linemen to NFL Europe. I've heard from someone that they shut it down (not sure if that's true). If not, would Gibbs still be in favor of sending some of our guys over there to train in the offseason, and if it is shut down, would be have a meeting with them on what he expects them to do during their offseason, or wait until they get back to meet?
 
I was listening to 1560 today and Lance said a few things regarding Gibbs and the o-line:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.

2. Don't expect Weary to be back because he is too slow for the zone scheme.

3. Eric Winston is "a perfect fit" for the zone scheme. Makes me wonder if he could be moved to LT (my speculation not Lance's)

4. Gibbs is *very* adept at finding effective OL and RB in the later rounds. Lance thinks that it is almost a guarantee that we take a LT in the first and a RB in the third (this part was implicit.)
 
LT in the first makes sense from a couple different angles. First, we have had subpar to poor play at LT for years now. Even if you believe that Salaam did an admirable job, he's no spring chicken. And unless Gibbs has a specific later-round prospect in mind, providing him with top talent is never a bad thing. I'm sure Gibbs, Kubiak, and The Better Smith will be analyzing prospects heavily to decide which LT to take.
 
nero THE zero said:
I was listening to 1560 today and Lance said a few things regarding Gibbs and the o-line:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.

2. Don't expect Weary to be back because he is too slow for the zone scheme.

3. Eric Winston is "a perfect fit" for the zone scheme. Makes me wonder if he could be moved to LT (my speculation not Lance's)

4. Gibbs is *very* adept at finding effective OL and RB in the later rounds. Lance thinks that it is almost a guarantee that we take a LT in the first and a RB in the third (this part was implicit.)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be upset with that at all if there's a LT there for us. I'd expect us to have signed a DB or two via FA if we were to go that route.

LZ made some decent points in his comments to his blog readers too. Here's a partial comment to a reader about CB's. IMO, considering the number of holes we need to attempt to fill in FA, Randall Gay's probably the only one out of the bunch the Texans can truly afford. This is the only season he's been healthy so he should be the cheapest of the bunch.

:texflag:

If the Raiders let Asomugha get away they are total idiots. In free agency, the pecking order for CBs will be 1. Asomugha 2. Trufant 3. Samuel and 4. Gay. I think Gay is the only one the Texans could potentially target and I think Samuel is the only one of the top 3 who ends up gone from their team.
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http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/01/post_38.html

*Edit* Dadgummit! I didn't mean to ramble off-topic. After posting this I realized how I kinda stumbled out to left field. My apologies.
 
nero THE zero said:
I was listening to 1560 today and Lance said a few things regarding Gibbs and the o-line:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.

2. Don't expect Weary to be back because he is too slow for the zone scheme.

3. Eric Winston is "a perfect fit" for the zone scheme. Makes me wonder if he could be moved to LT (my speculation not Lance's)

4. Gibbs is *very* adept at finding effective OL and RB in the later rounds. Lance thinks that it is almost a guarantee that we take a LT in the first and a RB in the third (this part was implicit.)
Click to expand...



It's easy to be adept at grooming later round prospects when you have someone good enough ahead of them. We don't have that luxury by far.

As far as RBs are concerned it seems like some people here have amensia concerned as to what type of RB that is. In the Past most of the 1000 rushers churned out of nowhere from Denver generally weren't the speedy flash type. They were simple north/south runner who made one cut and run downhill. I think a guy like Patrick out of OU would fit perfectly with what we're looking for supposedly.

Would love to see a LT this year finally but not going to hold my breath on it. It'd also be nice if Eslinger could emerge as the guy at C. With the tackles in our division we're really going to have to improve the interior oline if we want to finish on top of the division.
 
nero THE zero said:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.
Click to expand...

Thanks for summarizing what you heard. Being 3 hours away, I rely on you guys to feed my information as it "comes off the presses."

Any idea if his return being doubtful was because of the injury? Because he didn't fit the zbs? Both?
 
Missed LZ this morning - did he say Spencer wouldn't be back because he doesn't fit into the scheme, or because of health?

The reason I ask that is that it hasn't been too long ago (a month or less) when he (LZ) said that he was hearing very positive things about Spencer's rehab.
 
drewmar74 said:
Thanks for summarizing what you heard. Being 3 hours away, I rely on you guys to feed my information as it "comes off the presses."

Any idea if his return being doubtful was because of the injury? Because he didn't fit the zbs? Both?
Click to expand...

He said that Spencer's leg isn't rebuilding from the atrophy he experienced. He also said that Spencer is having trouble dropping the weight he gained in his time off. He said Spencer would be a great fit at G in the zb scheme but that his return isn't looking likely (I think his exact words were "don't expect him to return".)

Also a couple of things he also mentioned that I forgot to add:
1. Matt Briesel is a very good fit in the zb scheme. He could be a serious contender for a starting job

2. Gibbs will be working a lot with Little Shanahan and John Benton to groom them just as he did with Kubiak in Denver.

Oh and, you can listen live from their website: http://1560thegame.com/
 
The Texans could always trade down a hand full of spots and pick up a 2nd to spend on a RB. Not that I expect it. I thought they might do that the last couple of years. Trade down that is.


:fans:
 
nero THE zero said:
I was listening to 1560 today and Lance said a few things regarding Gibbs and the o-line:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.

2. Don't expect Weary to be back because he is too slow for the zone scheme.

3. Eric Winston is "a perfect fit" for the zone scheme. Makes me wonder if he could be moved to LT (my speculation not Lance's)

4. Gibbs is *very* adept at finding effective OL and RB in the later rounds. Lance thinks that it is almost a guarantee that we take a LT in the first and a RB in the third (this part was implicit.)
Click to expand...

I'm always interested in hearing about LZs thoughts on the NFL, especially OLine players because of knowledge and contacts, one of whom is the OLine coach of the Steelers who happens to be his dad.
**
1. I hate to hear that about Spencer
2. The injury Weary sustained further complicates his situation, but him not returning isn't the major disappointment of the LZ report on Spencer.
3. Agreed about Winston, but if #4 is true he obviously remains at RT.
4. Totally agree with these priorities, which also means they would for sure go after a CB, which is as high a priority as the other two, in FA.
 
They changed the name from NFL Europe to NFL Europa, then closed it down a few months later. Pretty lame imo...
 
I'm expecting expanded rosters* coming out of the owners meetings to compensate for lost NFLE exemptions.

* maybe an extra 5 or 6 players from March 1 - Sept 1 kind of thing.
 
nero THE zero said:
I was listening to 1560 today and Lance said a few things regarding Gibbs and the o-line:
1. Don't expect Spencer to be back. He heard from "someone who would know" that it's not looking good for his return.

2. Don't expect Weary to be back because he is too slow for the zone scheme.

3. Eric Winston is "a perfect fit" for the zone scheme. Makes me wonder if he could be moved to LT (my speculation not Lance's)

4. Gibbs is *very* adept at finding effective OL and RB in the later rounds. Lance thinks that it is almost a guarantee that we take a LT in the first and a RB in the third (this part was implicit.)
Click to expand...

This whole post is very informative and interesting. Thanks Nero!

Since the hiring of Gibbs yesterday, I've been wondering about what he will do to the O-line and who he will target in the Draft. It's sad to hear about Spencer and Weary, and I know with those leg injuries they will probably lose a step, but it could open the door for guys like Brisiel, Eslinger and Frye. I'm not sure about Studdard. I've always heard he's not very quick.

As for what O-linemen they target in the Draft, I'm sure that will change now that Gibbs is onboard. We are less likely to go for the bigger linemen, unless they have very good footspeed/footwork. Baker would probably fit Gibbs' ZB scheme moreso than Clady, Otah, or Loadholt. Personally, I'm not sold on Baker and would rather go with Otah or Clady, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens and trust in Gibbs/Kubes. JMHO! :fans:
 
I was always under the assumption that Sam Baker worked in a zone scheme with USC for his 3 years that he's been there.

In all honesty, I'm a little surprised that LZ thinks that the 1st round LT is a lock. 18 spots in the draft is a lot of spots down where a lot of people can already be off the board. I would think that the way Kubiak (And later on Kubiak and Smith) have drafted in the past would pretty much relegate us to a BPA at our spot type of thinking.

If Baker, Long, Clady, and Otah are all gone off the board, but both of the Jenkins (CB's) and Tali, and Phillips are on the board, I'd say we almost have to draft one of those guys.

And all this talk about being able to find O-line talent in the later rounds, and then coming back and saying 1st round LT is a lock, I'm sort of perplexed here.
 
From everything I remember hearing and seeing about his days in Denver and Atlanta, Gibbs is not the most patient guy in the world when it comes to learning on the job. If that's true, then I would think that the Texans might be more inclined to steer clear of using a 1st round pick on O-Linemen, and concentrate somewhere else (Another CB would be great in my book).

Hopefully Gibbs has the contacts and the credibility to make the Texans a desirable spot for O-Line Free Agents. For better or worse (really, just for worse), we got several of Sherman's old players down here - anybody out there the Gibbs might be able to convince to sign with an up and coming team?
 
aj. said:
I'm expecting expanded rosters* coming out of the owners meetings to compensate for lost NFLE exemptions.

* maybe an extra 5 or 6 players from March 1 - Sept 1 kind of thing.
Click to expand...

Easy work-around. Good idea!
 
b0ng said:
I was always under the assumption that Sam Baker worked in a zone scheme with USC for his 3 years that he's been there.

In all honesty, I'm a little surprised that LZ thinks that the 1st round LT is a lock. 18 spots in the draft is a lot of spots down where a lot of people can already be off the board. I would think that the way Kubiak (And later on Kubiak and Smith) have drafted in the past would pretty much relegate us to a BPA at our spot type of thinking.

If Baker, Long, Clady, and Otah are all gone off the board, but both of the Jenkins (CB's) and Tali, and Phillips are on the board, I'd say we almost have to draft one of those guys.

And all this talk about being able to find O-line talent in the later rounds, and then coming back and saying 1st round LT is a lock, I'm sort of perplexed here.
Click to expand...



Baker is an option. He is not prototypical, but he'll work. What I'm thinking is that if they play it right they can have two holes banged with the one and the three. I think you give the new guy his guy. Whether that is in the first round or not I dunno.


I don't like taking FS in the first out of hand. You save that roster spot for a corner whos on the back side of his career. Bennit is going to make a prety fair free safty six or seven years down the road.
 
Yep Gibbs will make a big difference and we only gave up 22 sacks last year he will definately help our running game and they said it was more so on the runnning backs so we will need to draft a good running back and possibly bring in another free agents running back. Ahman Green is a huge liability and Ron Dayne is only a 3rd string back at best. :texflag:
 
threetoedpete said:
Baker is an option. He is not prototypical, but he'll work. What I'm thinking is that if they play it right they can have two holes banged with the one and the three. I think you give the new guy his guy. Whether that is in the first round or not I dunno.


I don't like taking FS in the first out of hand. You save that roster spot for a corner whos on the back side of his career. Bennit is going to make a prety fair free safty six or seven years down the road.
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I'm not a ZBS expert by no means but I think that an element you have to have is , you have to be willing to chop block .

Guys like Gibbs and Forrest Greg will tell players ... if your not willing to chop block ... I'll find someone who is . That's where the tough / nasty attitude comes in . That's why he can get a 6th round pick who will do anything to stay in the league and make him a player .

The byproduct is ... a DB may think twice before he jacks up your QB .
 
http://www.kffl.com/player/14028/nfl

Falcons | Forney complains about ex-coach's rules
Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:39:25 -0700

Steve Wyche, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons OG Kynan Forney was critical of former offensive line coach Alex Gibbs' policy of making offensive lineman weigh less than 300 pounds. Forney said the rule resulted in some players drastically cutting weight a night or two before weekly weigh-ins. "Everybody's glad that you don't have to be sitting around and stressing about starving yourself all week to make some weigh-in on Friday morning because somebody likes the way it looks on paper. They would tell you that you have to weigh 295 [pounds] so you'd be sitting up Wednesday and Thursday night starving sometimes. Sometimes you've got 330-pound, 340-pound [defensive tackles] across from you and as the season goes on, that can weigh on you. You had different guys starving themselves. That's crazy to me. We're not naturally sleek and lean. We were made to be sleeker and leaner," Forney said. Forney added that nobody raised issue because the Gibbs-taught zone-blocking scheme resulted in the Falcons leading the league in rushing for three consecutive seasons.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
http://www.kffl.com/player/14028/nfl

Falcons | Forney complains about ex-coach's rules
Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:39:25 -0700

Steve Wyche, of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons OG Kynan Forney was critical of former offensive line coach Alex Gibbs' policy of making offensive lineman weigh less than 300 pounds. Forney said the rule resulted in some players drastically cutting weight a night or two before weekly weigh-ins. "Everybody's glad that you don't have to be sitting around and stressing about starving yourself all week to make some weigh-in on Friday morning because somebody likes the way it looks on paper. They would tell you that you have to weigh 295 [pounds] so you'd be sitting up Wednesday and Thursday night starving sometimes. Sometimes you've got 330-pound, 340-pound [defensive tackles] across from you and as the season goes on, that can weigh on you. You had different guys starving themselves. That's crazy to me. We're not naturally sleek and lean. We were made to be sleeker and leaner," Forney said. Forney added that nobody raised issue because the Gibbs-taught zone-blocking scheme resulted in the Falcons leading the league in rushing for three consecutive seasons.
Click to expand...

Boo-hoo. I think if I made a few hundred thousand a year (at least) I'd hire the best damn dietitian I could afford to make sure my boss was happy. That sounds like the crying of somebody who doesn't want to eat breathe and live football, and I think most of the linemen we have, or would bring in, are just that. I doubt Coach Gibbs thought much of him anyway, and when it comes down to it, Alex Gibbs is way more successful than Kynan Forney will ever be. It might be hard on our offensive line guys, but the ones who can grow under a tough coach and take what he has to teach and utilize it, they will be the better for it.

Here's to a season where we piss off Albert Haynesworth, rather than the other way around! :rally:
 
Played O-Line in a ZBS in high school and loved it. Though, it is pretty much a bunch of cheapshots put together, and you are making more than a conscious effort to intentionally hurt opposing player, which a lot of guys have problems with.
 
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