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Stir it UP!!

M

Meloy

Veteran
Based upon salary cap projections for 2004/05 @ www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html by Keith Weiland (see disclaimers) I suggest the following players be gone:

1. Tony Banks QB 2004: $1,050,000 Let Ragone and BJ Symmons
fight it out.
2. Corey Bradford W/R 2004: $2,258,333
3. Jay Foreman L/B 2005: $2,210,000
4. Seth Payne O.T. 2004: $4,175,000 This one should stir up comments
5. Mark Breuner T.E. 2005: $ 898,333 Either he or Joppru ($788,750) needs to
go. I'm not a TE fan & 04 production proves my point.

Total Savings: $10,591,166

Plan:Go after Walter Jones OT & best Dlineman avail @ free agency.
Jones to take Payne's spot & DL for depth. I don't think we can sign a
starter.
Draft: 1st: Has to be a trade down as I see nothing to benefit as a starter
like Dunte.Rolle c/b & Marlin Jackson c/b may be there but stock seems to have dropped. I like Marcus Spears D.L. 6'4" 297 but some say he can't
stop run. If we trade we should pick up a 2nd round & get Antajj Hawthore
6'3" 312 or Ngata 6'4" 345 for Nose tackle.

With two 2nd round & two 3rd's we should be able to trade up into late first round for 2 additional picks.

Result: Walter Jones
Defensive line back up
1st round: Ngata or Hawthorne ( If Payne signs for $2 1/2 million like R. Smith , keep Payne.)
2nd 1st round (from trade) best player avail
3rd 1st round (from trade) " " "
 
I really can't argue with the players you mentioned to let go. My only thought is this. Carr has had his moments of being injured during the season. Are you really sure about letting Ragone or Symons have the job if Carr goes down?
 
Meloy said:
4. Seth Payne O.T. 2004: $4,175,000 This one should stir up comments
Click to expand...

You are correct.
Seth Payne is a DT, not OT.
Seth is the base of that 3-4, and when he is not in...the production of that line deteriorates. He'll be fine by the time season starts. I'd like to see the Texans get him for a better value compared to what they were paying before.

I personally do not believe the Texans are anywhere in the market for a tier 1 free agent. Several players over the next few years are set to make some extremely large salaries, plus next year is a contract year for Jamie Sharper. And I don't know about you guys, but I'd like Jamie to come back.
 
Those numbers were for the 2004 season. That money has been spent. Banks, Payne, & Bradford are off the books and will be FAs unless they're signed prior to March 2nd.
 
Meloy said:
Draft: 1st: Has to be a trade down as I see nothing to benefit as a starter
like Dunte.Rolle c/b & Marlin Jackson c/b may be there but stock seems to have dropped. I like Marcus Spears D.L. 6'4" 297 but some say he can't
stop run. If we trade we should pick up a 2nd round & get Antajj Hawthore
6'3" 312 or Ngata 6'4" 345 for Nose tackle.

With two 2nd round & two 3rd's we should be able to trade up into late first round for 2 additional picks.

Result: Walter Jones
Defensive line back up
1st round: Ngata or Hawthorne ( If Payne signs for $2 1/2 million like R. Smith , keep Payne.)
2nd 1st round (from trade) best player avail
3rd 1st round (from trade) " " "
Click to expand...


This is all nice to think about but i dont think Ngata declared for the draft also was injuried which if he did declare he would possibly fall from the first round
 
usatoday.com article about the Texans offseason:

The Texans have made it clear they do not plan to be major players when the free-agent signing period begins.
Coming off a 7-9 season - the best in the franchise's 3-year history - the Texans do not consider themselves to be one player away from contending for a playoff spot. Nor are they interested in paying Pro Bowl money for less than Pro Bowl talent.

Instead, the Texans likely will continue to use the college draft as their primary building block.
Click to expand...


USA Today Houston Texans Article
 
As some have pointed out, Payne is not a OT, so Walter Jones wouldn't replace him - though Jones would displace Seth Wand it still leaves a hole at Nose Tackle. You suggested a possible trade down to pick up Anttaj Hawthorne (Ngata's staying in school), who would make a decent NT.

Also, I see you've released one of our starting ILBs, Jay Foreman, which I can live with - but I don't see where he's been replaced in your scenario.

I don't think you get back into the first round twice with 2-2nds and 2-3rds, though I could see a late first and early second. I assuming you'd want to target an ILB (to replace Foreman) with one of those two picks, and we probably should put some thought into replacing our #2 WR with the other, though upgrading the center or nickelback would be nice. I didn't mention TE since you're not a fan :)

I don't think you can sign both Jones and a quality FA DLineman for $12 mil cap (your $10 plus the $2 projected cap room assuming 2004 FA numbers) - at least not without setting us up for cap trouble next year. I figure a Jones would cost us 6.5-7 mil (if we're lucky) and a quality FA DLine 4.5-6 mil without playing too many games with the cap ... but that only just barely squeezes in.
 
Meloy said:
4. Seth Payne O.T. 2004: $4,175,000 This one should stir up comments
Click to expand...

OK now I thought that was a typo until:

Plan:Go after Walter Jones OT & best Dlineman avail @ free agency.
Jones to take Payne's spot & DL for depth.
Click to expand...

Call me crazy, but before you develop a plan for off-season moves it seems like it would be wise to know who plays what position--and if you don't know a player's position how can you have evaluated whether they need to be replaced?

By the way, don't you think we need to upgrade Matt Stevens and Jermaine Lewis?
 
infantrycak said:
Call me crazy, but before you develop a plan for off-season moves it seems like it would be wise to know who plays what position--and if you don't know a player's position how can you have evaluated whether they need to be replaced?

By the way, don't you think we need to upgrade Matt Stevens and Jermaine Lewis?
Click to expand...

LoL, I was wondering when someone was gonna say something about that. The guy is trying to spit out cap solutions like he's a pro, but he has no idea what he's talking about. Leave the cap business to AJ would ya?
 
we are not going to get a new tackle in the offseason. Wand just had a decent first year, and too much was just invested in Wade. If there will be any change along the line it will be on the interior, probably center.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Several players over the next few years are set to make some extremely large salaries, plus next year is a contract year for Jamie Sharper. And I don't know about you guys, but I'd like Jamie to come back.
Click to expand...

He better. He is my favorite TEXAN!!! :headbang:
Alot will ride on how we do collectively as a team next year. :hmmm:
 
ya know the organization has done a good job so far getting the players we need from the draft or FA, and i'm sure they will continue to impress us. So far havent seen to many bad dicussions !
 
Meloy said:
3. Jay Foreman L/B 2005: $2,210,000

5. Mark Breuner T.E. 2005: $ 898,333 Either he or Joppru ($788,750)
Click to expand...
why would we release players that are still under contract, their salaries will still count against us if we release them, so there is no point, breuner did a fine job this year, when the texans brought him in, it was well known, breuner was not brought in to be a pass catching tight end, and that Billy Miller severely lacked blocking talent, while Bruener is one of the best TE at blocking... Joppru is the all around player we wanted, the only concernes i have are his health, and when he stays healthy this year, how long will it take him to get back in a groove playing, since he hasnt played in so long
 
THEFUTURE said:
why would we release players that are still under contract, their salaries will still count against us if we release them, so there is no point
Click to expand...

Only the remaining prorated signing bonus and any guaranteed money would count against the cap not their salaries.
 
I would much rather see the team take the Patriots approach to the free agent season and focus on a few players that add depth or will fit into the team plan. Their biggest offseason addition in the last few years was Dillon and that was a steal for a draft pick. They don't sign expensive free agents that demand more money than their value. They could follow the Dan Snider, Washington Redskins model and sign the best available at each position, change coaches, and start over each year. I don't see any free agents that are going to be available worth giving all that money to.
 
TexanBacker55 said:
I would much rather see the team take the Patriots approach to the free agent season and focus on a few players that add depth or will fit into the team plan. Their biggest offseason addition in the last few years was Dillon and that was a steal for a draft pick. They don't sign expensive free agents that demand more money than their value. They could follow the Dan Snider, Washington Redskins model and sign the best available at each position, change coaches, and start over each year. I don't see any free agents that are going to be available worth giving all that money to.
Click to expand...


They did sign Rodney Harrison and cut Lawyer Milloy last year. It turned out to be a great move but everyone was questioning it at the time.

I'd like to see the Texans go after Kendrell Bell in free agency. He could be a starter for years here and his value dropped a little this year but I think there is still a big upside to him. A value aquisition imho.
 
Offensive tackle Seth Payne ???? Did i miss something but isnt he our Nose tackle ? Our do some of you think he will become an offensive tackle ?
 
infantrycak said:
OK now I thought that was a typo until:



Call me crazy, but before you develop a plan for off-season moves it seems like it would be wise to know who plays what position--and if you don't know a player's position how can you have evaluated whether they need to be replaced?

By the way, don't you think we need to upgrade Matt Stevens and Jermaine Lewis?
Click to expand...
My Bad, My thread should have read "Go after Walter Jones O.T. to replace Wand not Payne." I did say go after best free agent dline and look at dline in draft. I said I was not sure if we could sign a starter (to beat out 2004 back up Deloach) but could add to depth of line. I personally like Marcus Spears but not sure he will be available @ 13 & even if he is may not be worth that pick. I assume your mention of Matt Stevens & Lewis is your feeble attempt at sarcasm. HEY DUDE! You really got me. All better now?
 
TMac48 said:
LoL, I was wondering when someone was gonna say something about that. The guy is trying to spit out cap solutions like he's a pro, but he has no idea what he's talking about. Leave the cap business to AJ would ya?
Click to expand...

Hey TMAC at least you are brave enough to let someone state your opinion before you climb on.You are really impressive. Sort of like the little girl in school who allows her brother to knock a guy down then jumps in for a kick.
Whooeee! :hmmm:
 
Walter Jones was signed by Seattle. This thread has been funny.

I am just waiting for the combine, which I will TIVO. BTW Casserly was on NFL network and I think he said the most important part of the combine is the physical. I am sure we will see a future OL there.
 
I dunno.. there seem to be more than a couple teams changing to a 3-4 defence this season. Wouldnt be surprised if he got grabbed by someone else.
 
Grid said:
Smith was a solid Dlineman all season.
Click to expand...

Isn't it amazing how people see things so differently? Bottle of Bud calls Smith a poor player and Grid says solid all year long. Guess this goes also to the way folks have expressed opinions on Carr, DD and JJ Moses. Anyway, as Dallas is saying they will go to 3-4 defense this season, will they be after Seth Payne? I am not too up on Cowboys. I really like Payne but do not want to get a Walker type situation. By the way I wanted Walker signed so I have no complaints coming.
 
:hmmm: Once Smith got the system down I thought he played good .
Every team wants a guy like Seth Payne . He is a hard worker who plays a rough position . Before he hurt his knee he was playing at a pro bowl level .
The bottom line is theres one DL starter who was healthy at the end of the year . If we don't bring in some talented young guys we'll be sorry sooner than later .
 
On thing this thread teaches is that the GM will never make everyone happy all of the time. I wonder if Pats fans are busting thier GM's balls yet.
 
Bradford and Payne are the only ones who made a difference in 04. Banks is to talented to be a 2nd string QB so he should consider moving on with his career
 
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