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Our First Round DLine

buddyboy

buddyboy

Rookie
There are so many people whining and complaining about how our dline is not performing and how we have SO many first round picks and SO much money invested in it. Also, many people have been targetting Mario Williams, posters and the media.

Prior to this year, people had been targetting Travis Johnson, who people swore was a bust. This year, however, TJ has picked it up. He's been playing with intensity and has been making plays. This is his third year in the NFL, which many say is how long it takes for a defensive lineman to become acclimated and really show their stuff.

Hmmmm, three years for TJ to start playing well....so far it's been two years for Mario and one for Okoye. It's time to lay off the DLine and be patient. Okoye is actually already playing like a man possessed, and if the three year rule applies to Mario, then our line will be pretty stacked.
 
The line played pretty dang good against Oakland, don't let any one tell you they did not. The numbers don't indicate they did a good job out there last sunday because they only got one sack...but McCown ran for his life nearly every play, Raider fan will tell you that. Also Mario played really well that game despite not getting a sack.
 
Both of you are right.

But lets put this in perspective. It was Oakland.

Don't get me wrong. I like our line. I think they are much maligned mostly because they play with one of the worst secondaries (now with DR out the ABSOLUTE worst) in the league. Mario still needs to work on a move other than the bull rush and the run around out of the play but he has the raw tools. Our OL plays much better against the run than people give them credit for. Our OLBs however, are horrible against, well anything but the kneel down. That's just the way it is.

This line will take time to develop. Keep in mind. 3/4 of our DL doesn't have that "man strength" yet either. Those of you over about 25 know what I'm talking about.

Mike
 
it was just oakland, but when a team is down in the depths of despair like the texans were for the last few weeks a win is a win and a confidence booster.

the d'line is getting better, no one can deny it. hell, even cbs showed mario in a positive light for once. one play they showed a replay of specifically him and he was getting around the lt but the guy was clearly hanging on for his life and probably mcclown's life too. but, alas, no holding call.
 
if not mistaken I heard yesterday on the Kubiak show that Mario Williams will be playing more with his hands & head up instead of down in a three point stance. they feel it might really help him in play recognition & free him to be more of a playmaker in space. :specnatz:
 
beerlover said:
if not mistaken I heard yesterday on the Kubiak show that Mario Williams will be playing more with his hands & head up instead of down in a three point stance. they feel it might really help him in play recognition & free him to be more of a playmaker in space. :specnatz:
Click to expand...

I heard that to. Somebody called in and mentioned that he had seen Mario
upright instead of playing with his hand down in a couple of instances and
Kubiak really perked up.
Where's he going with this ? Unless they are planning on making Mario a LB,
nah I'm just kidding, but are they suggesting he may really be upright at the
"LOS" when the ball is snapped, meaning we've only got 3 DLineman with their hands down in a 4-3 defense ?
 
nunusguy said:
I heard that to. Somebody called in and mentioned that he had seen Mario
upright instead of playing with his hand down in a couple of instances and
Kubiak really perked up.
Where's he going with this ? Unless they are planning on making Mario a LB,
nah I'm just kidding, but are they suggesting he may really be upright at the
"LOS" when the ball is snapped, meaning we've only got 3 DLineman with their hands down in a 4-3 defense ?
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking, so in a way we will be running a 3-4?
 
Jeez, some of the fans in this town are simply turning into excuse generators.

One 1st round pick was a bust for 3 years and is now playing well. Therefore we should allow 3 years for every 1st round pick to develop before we are allowed to criticize them.
That doesnt make a lot of sense...

The benefit of picking 1st overall in the entire NFL draft as compared to picking in the middle of the 1st or in later rounds is that you are supposed to get the player you want. You are guaranteed you can get any player you want, and you are guaranteed you can get the best overall player in the draft. He is supposed to be physically gifted, football smart, a hard worker, etc. Basically, its supposed to be as close to a risk-free pick as you can possibly make.

Looking back, there are LOADS of better players right now than Mario. He has done very, very little, and the worst part is he is constantly bashed by the media, fans, and teammates for not being an every down guy. They say he needs a fire lit under him.

If you have the 1st pick, how do you not know a guy is going to "need a fire" to ignite his play? Thats unexcusable, and until he plays up to his 1st overall status, I think its more than justified to cricitize both him and the entire Texans FO
 
gtexan02 said:
Jeez, some of the fans in this town are simply turning into excuse generators.

One 1st round pick was a bust for 3 years and is now playing well. Therefore we should allow 3 years for every 1st round pick to develop before we are allowed to criticize them.
That doesnt make a lot of sense...

The benefit of picking 1st overall in the entire NFL draft as compared to picking in the middle of the 1st or in later rounds is that you are supposed to get the player you want. You are guaranteed you can get any player you want, and you are guaranteed you can get the best overall player in the draft. He is supposed to be physically gifted, football smart, a hard worker, etc. Basically, its supposed to be as close to a risk-free pick as you can possibly make.

Looking back, there are LOADS of better players right now than Mario. He has done very, very little, and the worst part is he is constantly bashed by the media, fans, and teammates for not being an every down guy. They say he needs a fire lit under him.

If you have the 1st pick, how do you not know a guy is going to "need a fire" to ignite his play? Thats unexcusable, and until he plays up to his 1st overall status, I think its more than justified to cricitize both him and the entire Texans FO
Click to expand...

Hate to rain on your parade, but there are no guarantees in any draft. Its a crap shoot, any way you look at it. There have been many busts in the first round, including number one overall, and many hall-of-famers selected in the latter rounds and even undrafted. Just the way it goes.
 
I think that the DL definitely needs more time to develop and will take a longer time to make the same sort of impact as a stud RB or WR. I think a player like Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson can be more effective quicker than Amobi Okoye.

The problem lies in Mario being selected #1 overall and not #13 overall. Fans/Media expect the players in the top 3 to come into the league and automatically dominate.

As much as I want Mario to go to the pro bowl, I'm more willing to give him more time. But for fans expecting more from him should be competely understandable.

He was drafted #1 overall and there's a stigma that comes with that, that maybe they are better than any other player in the draft and shouldn't take as long to develop.
 
Not to make excuses for average play, but Mario was/is being held more than any player along our Dline. I know, I know, there's holding on every play, but damn I'm talking strangle holds.

I reckon we need to become a decent football team before we get much respect from the officials.:texflag:
 
Oh by the way mario has not benn in the league 3 years gtexan, this is his scond year and last year he had the foot injury all year.

OK back to the ranting, just wanted to make sure the facts were straight.
 
gtexan02 said:
Jeez, some of the fans in this town are simply turning into excuse generators.

One 1st round pick was a bust for 3 years and is now playing well. Therefore we should allow 3 years for every 1st round pick to develop before we are allowed to criticize them.
That doesnt make a lot of sense...

The benefit of picking 1st overall in the entire NFL draft as compared to picking in the middle of the 1st or in later rounds is that you are supposed to get the player you want. You are guaranteed you can get any player you want, and you are guaranteed you can get the best overall player in the draft. He is supposed to be physically gifted, football smart, a hard worker, etc. Basically, its supposed to be as close to a risk-free pick as you can possibly make.

Looking back, there are LOADS of better players right now than Mario. He has done very, very little, and the worst part is he is constantly bashed by the media, fans, and teammates for not being an every down guy. They say he needs a fire lit under him.

If you have the 1st pick, how do you not know a guy is going to "need a fire" to ignite his play? Thats unexcusable, and until he plays up to his 1st overall status, I think its more than justified to cricitize both him and the entire Texans FO
Click to expand...


first of all it's rare that any player, no matter where they're drafted, come in & dominate or at least live up to the hype that is the #1 overall pick or being picked in the top 5. Since 2000, only about 15 of the top 5 in each draft (excluding '07) have even gone on ( or at least appear to be headed in the right direction) to have relatively decent careers, let alone good/great as being drafted in the top 5 would seem to signify. Of those same years, Only 1 of those guys (palmer) seems to have been worthy of the #1 overall pick in his draft with Eli,Fitzgerald, Taylor & now rivers all seemingly pretty solid & could easily make their cases for being the top overall pick in '04.

You're right it is a benefit & that's about it. But then also consider that most teams are pretty much in agreement on who's worth of top 5 status, the odds are still against you that you might miss on a pick.

The point is, whether the picks are consensus or not, all u can be fairly confident about is that you will get a decent player in the top 5, nothing more. I would say that to this point mario is at least solid.
 
gtexan02 said:
Jeez, some of the fans in this town are simply turning into excuse generators.

One 1st round pick was a bust for 3 years and is now playing well. Therefore we should allow 3 years for every 1st round pick to develop before we are allowed to criticize them.
That doesnt make a lot of sense...

The benefit of picking 1st overall in the entire NFL draft as compared to picking in the middle of the 1st or in later rounds is that you are supposed to get the player you want. You are guaranteed you can get any player you want, and you are guaranteed you can get the best overall player in the draft. He is supposed to be physically gifted, football smart, a hard worker, etc. Basically, its supposed to be as close to a risk-free pick as you can possibly make.

Looking back, there are LOADS of better players right now than Mario. He has done very, very little, and the worst part is he is constantly bashed by the media, fans, and teammates for not being an every down guy. They say he needs a fire lit under him.

If you have the 1st pick, how do you not know a guy is going to "need a fire" to ignite his play? Thats unexcusable, and until he plays up to his 1st overall status, I think its more than justified to cricitize both him and the entire Texans FO
Click to expand...

But the point I was trying make was that DLinemen supposedly have a more difficult time of transitioning to the NFL, whereas Wide Recievers and Running backs might just have to get used to the speed of the game.

So, where a RB, Reggie Bush or Adrian Peterson, might come into the league and put up solid numbers in his rookie year, Dlinemen take 2-3 years to develop.

Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Amobi Okoye all fall into this category and will HOPEFULLY not turn out to be busts IN TIME.

And how is it "justified" to critizice Mario Williams for not playing up to his "1st overall status"? It wasn't his decision to be the first pick of the draft, that was the FO. Yes, you can justify bashing the FO for picking MW, but as far as bashing MW for not playing up to your expectations...
 
buddyboy said:
So, where a RB, Reggie Bush or Adrian Peterson, might come into the league and put up solid numbers in his rookie year, Dlinemen take 2-3 years to develop.
Click to expand...
Off topic, but one of those 2 guys just doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with the other. You figure out which one is which.
 
buddyboy said:
But the point I was trying make was that DLinemen supposedly have a more difficult time of transitioning to the NFL, whereas Wide Recievers and Running backs might just have to get used to the speed of the game.

So, where a RB, Reggie Bush or Adrian Peterson, might come into the league and put up solid numbers in his rookie year, Dlinemen take 2-3 years to develop.

Travis Johnson, Mario Williams, and Amobi Okoye all fall into this category and will HOPEFULLY not turn out to be busts IN TIME.

And how is it "justified" to critizice Mario Williams for not playing up to his "1st overall status"? It wasn't his decision to be the first pick of the draft, that was the FO. Yes, you can justify bashing the FO for picking MW, but as far as bashing MW for not playing up to your expectations...
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this at all.

I would be fine waiting on Mario Williams to develop if thats what I thought was going to happen from day 1.

But the problem I'm having is that the Texans specifically said the 2 reasons we were bringing in Mario were:
1) To bring the heat against guys like Peyton Manning
2) Because he was the most NFL ready guy

I realize that many DL take years to develop, but why are there other DEs from the same draft class who were taken later in round 1, and even in other rounds, who are/have already out produced Mario?

Why is it that Amobi Okoye, who was actually EXPECTED to be a project, has dominated against the pass AND the run as a rookie?

Mario was supposed to be a pass rusher. Mario was supposed to be NFL ready. Mario was supposed to be one of the top DE prospects in years.

Im fully ready to give him more time, but because of the expectations I had for him, I feel its totally fair to criticize his play so far. I already see him making progress, but its his pass rushing that still bothers me. And the reason I think thats fair is because he was sold to us as Texans fans as the next great pass rusher. He even said his goal was to break the single season sack record.

If the Texans FO thinks hes that good, and if he thinks hes that good, then why can't I EXPECT him to be that good?
 
It's kinda funny how Kubiak kinda called out Amobi to play more consistent while praising Mario. Quite the contrast from the monday morning QB.
 
You know, thats something I dont really get. I'll admit, being in Virginia, i can't watch all the games. As such, a lot of my criciticism is based on the games I can watch at bars and therefore I dont always get the best view.

But from what Ive seen so far, Amobi is disruptive up the middle. Williams overpursues a lot, and when pass rushing, often just runs right by the QB.
 
I don't agree with this at all.

I would be fine waiting on Mario Williams to develop if thats what I thought was going to happen from day 1.

But the problem I'm having is that the Texans specifically said the 2 reasons we were bringing in Mario were:
1) To bring the heat against guys like Peyton Manning
2) Because he was the most NFL ready guy

I realize that many DL take years to develop, but why are there other DEs from the same draft class who were taken later in round 1, and even in other rounds, who are/have already out produced Mario?

Why is it that Amobi Okoye, who was actually EXPECTED to be a project, has dominated against the pass AND the run as a rookie?

Mario was supposed to be a pass rusher. Mario was supposed to be NFL ready. Mario was supposed to be one of the top DE prospects in years.

Im fully ready to give him more time, but because of the expectations I had for him, I feel its totally fair to criticize his play so far. I already see him making progress, but its his pass rushing that still bothers me. And the reason I think thats fair is because he was sold to us as Texans fans as the next great pass rusher. He even said his goal was to break the single season sack record.

If the Texans FO thinks hes that good, and if he thinks hes that good, then why can't I EXPECT him to be that good?
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I don't recall that being said about Mario at any time. Matt Leinart i believe was the guy they were saying was the most NFL ready..

& as far as Okoye, he isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination. The raiders ran all up the middle, as did the Dolphins & anybody else who had good rushing days against us. He's a rookie, i get that but he's still got a long way to go as does mario before we can say he's dominating anything.

he's only got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday. I would say that those 2 are doing their part on the D-line, the other 2 "veteran" guys on the line need to step their game up as far as production goes.
 
gtexan02 said:
I don't agree with this at all.

I would be fine waiting on Mario Williams to develop if thats what I thought was going to happen from day 1.

But the problem I'm having is that the Texans specifically said the 2 reasons we were bringing in Mario were:
1) To bring the heat against guys like Peyton Manning
2) Because he was the most NFL ready guy

I realize that many DL take years to develop, but why are there other DEs from the same draft class who were taken later in round 1, and even in other rounds, who are/have already out produced Mario?

Why is it that Amobi Okoye, who was actually EXPECTED to be a project, has dominated against the pass AND the run as a rookie?

Mario was supposed to be a pass rusher. Mario was supposed to be NFL ready. Mario was supposed to be one of the top DE prospects in years.

Im fully ready to give him more time, but because of the expectations I had for him, I feel its totally fair to criticize his play so far. I already see him making progress, but its his pass rushing that still bothers me. And the reason I think thats fair is because he was sold to us as Texans fans as the next great pass rusher. He even said his goal was to break the single season sack record.

If the Texans FO thinks hes that good, and if he thinks hes that good, then why can't I EXPECT him to be that good?
Click to expand...

I agree. Mario was presented as a "ready to go" DE that would only get better and take pressure off guys like Weaver. That seems to have changed. The coach should not have to call in TJ and tell him to get his weight right and get his act together and start to dominate. I am glad that TJ did but for a year he was a bust and the joke of the MB. He did not turn it around because he was a season older. He turned it around because he took to heart Kubes message and now is showing why he was drafted in first. Yes, Mario had a different path to the first round due to the Reggie issue. Having said that, he has not played up to hype. He needs to come back after the by week with a TJ attitude. I bet if he was told he was in danger of being cut, he would be a terror. Too bad some players have to be threatened.
 
Mr teX said:
Amobi isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination.

he's got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly...although i will say that given his play this year in the seasons to come i'm expecting big things from the only player i'm older than.
 
Mr teX said:
Amobi isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination.

he's got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday.
Click to expand...

Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
 
Mr teX said:
Amobi isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination.

he's got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday.
Click to expand...

Amobi is inconsistent, that much is obvious. Mario is more consistent than him.

Gtexan, you are wrong on the Texans drafted Mario to get a immediate impact. Everyone in the draft knew that Mario was a project, just like Bush and Young. I am sure the Texans knew that also. They did get him to get after Peyton, but for the next 10 years. Mario was drafted to be a great DE over a long period of time. So he hasn't failed at anything yet, and he has been improving and he seems to have the motivation.
 
gtexan02 said:
Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
Click to expand...

I guess Okoye is better than Albert Haynesworth then huh?

& 14th among 60+ starting DE's isn't all that bad-- if you're just going on stats.
 
gtexan02 said:
Except you cant compare the two because one plays DE and one plays DT.

Okoye is 3rd among DTs with 5 sacks. Only Tommie Harris (7) and Darnell Docket (8) have more sacks than he does.

Williams, on the other hand, is 14th among active DEs with 4 sacks.
Click to expand...

Don't look at the stats though, he's inconsistent.
 
Mr teX said:
I don't agree with this at all.

I would be fine waiting on Mario Williams to develop if thats what I thought was going to happen from day 1.

But the problem I'm having is that the Texans specifically said the 2 reasons we were bringing in Mario were:
1) To bring the heat against guys like Peyton Manning
2) Because he was the most NFL ready guy

I realize that many DL take years to develop, but why are there other DEs from the same draft class who were taken later in round 1, and even in other rounds, who are/have already out produced Mario?

Why is it that Amobi Okoye, who was actually EXPECTED to be a project, has dominated against the pass AND the run as a rookie?

Mario was supposed to be a pass rusher. Mario was supposed to be NFL ready. Mario was supposed to be one of the top DE prospects in years.

Im fully ready to give him more time, but because of the expectations I had for him, I feel its totally fair to criticize his play so far. I already see him making progress, but its his pass rushing that still bothers me. And the reason I think thats fair is because he was sold to us as Texans fans as the next great pass rusher. He even said his goal was to break the single season sack record.

If the Texans FO thinks hes that good, and if he thinks hes that good, then why can't I EXPECT him to be that good?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't recall that being said about Mario at any time. Matt Leinart i believe was the guy they were saying was the most NFL ready..

& as far as Okoye, he isn't dominating anything... you guys need to stop with the over-exagerating. He looks good, but he's not dominating by any stretch of the imagination. The raiders ran all up the middle, as did the Dolphins & anybody else who had good rushing days against us. He's a rookie, i get that but he's still got a long way to go as does mario before we can say he's dominating anything.

he's only got 1 more sack than Mario & he just got that sunday. I would say that those 2 are doing their part on the D-line, the other 2 "veteran" guys on the line need to step their game up as far as production goes.
Click to expand...

How many sacks does Okoye have in his first 9 games compared to Mario's first 9 games his rookie year?
 
Leahmic223 said:
Amobi is inconsistent, that much is obvious. Mario is more consistent than him.

Gtexan, you are wrong on the Texans drafted Mario to get a immediate impact. Everyone in the draft knew that Mario was a project, just like Bush and Young. I am sure the Texans knew that also. They did get him to get after Peyton, but for the next 10 years. Mario was drafted to be a great DE over a long period of time. So he hasn't failed at anything yet, and he has been improving and he seems to have the motivation.
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Leahmic, I think you are wrong if you think any team drafts a first pick with maybe the exception of QB and thinks the player is a "project". I am not razzing on Mario and hope the guy works out for us. As of today, he has not been worth the pick.
 
badboy said:
Leahmic, I think you are wrong if you think any team drafts a first pick with maybe the exception of QB and thinks the player is a "project". I am not razzing on Mario and hope the guy works out for us. As of today, he has not been worth the pick.
Click to expand...

No, players in the top 10 or in the first round are drafted on potential.
 
Leahmic223 said:
No, players in the top 10 or in the first round are drafted on potential.
Click to expand...
IMO all players are drafted on what teams "hope" they will become in NFL. Mario was presented to the Houston fans as a player who could get after the QB his rookie year. He was not presented as a future H.O.F. as Bush was. Mario has been neither a bust nor pro bowler. Nor has he done as expected to this point.
 
badboy said:
IMO all players are drafted on what teams "hope" they will become in NFL. Mario was presented to the Houston fans as a player who could get after the QB his rookie year. He was not presented as a future H.O.F. as Bush was. Mario has been neither a bust nor pro bowler. Nor has he done as expected to this point.
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I think any guy in the top 5 people have REALLY HIGH hopes for that player meaning HOF, its just never mentioned. Mario was presented as a player with a incredibly high ceiling. Parcells said when they scouted him they saw a guy WHO COULD become a GREAT DE in time. McNair said we got Mario to get after Peyton, I didn't hear 'We Got Mario to get after Peyton ASAP, as in next year.' from what I took we got MArio as a project. Just like how all the scouts saw him.

Even if there is some quote I missed, I think the coaches didn't expect him to come in and dominate, because it was pretty well known on draft day that he was a project. When guys are drafted in the top 5 they are usually drafted on Potential, potential to be something special and look at his scouting reports, I remember one even saying you wouldn't see a DE coming out like him for the next 10 years. So he was regarded by the general scouts as a 'Special' player.
 
The way I remember the justification of the Mario pick was:

1. To get to the QB...Peyton.- Expectation= A pass rushing DE
2. That he will make the most impact right away.
 
I know this is kind of off topic, but does anybody else find it odd that TJ is the only one that bats balls down at the LOS? Mario is probably 5 yards behind the QB at that time, but what about the rest of them?
:texflag:

Sorry about the random thought. :)
 
Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.

But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.

When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.

Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
 
gtexan02 said:
Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.

But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.
Click to expand...

Which is why they would tell you that.

gtexan02 said:
When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.
Click to expand...

How is the foot a excuse, that cowgirl player missed half the season with that foot and he's not the only guy to miss games with the foot. No one is making excuses, I don't know who was projecting him to have a big rookie year i've always siad it was going to take time.

gtexan02 said:
Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
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Actually TJ is pretty dang consistent if you ask me. Mario is consistent too, you just said that...

He isn't a game changing DE yet...but it is going to take time. The worst team in the NFL drafts the player with TONS of potential. They don't draft a guy that is projected to be a good player at his position, who will be a solid guy at his position. No they draft a player that is going to be something special at his position and it is usually going to take time.
 
Also Gtexan, you are fairly criticizing Mario.

I'm just saying that I don't think the Texans coaching staff expected the guy to make a immeidiate impact right away, and if they did then they made a mistake. Because it was well known that guys like him, Bush and Young were projects.
 
Leahmic223 said:
I think any guy in the top 5 people have REALLY HIGH hopes for that player meaning HOF, its just never mentioned. Mario was presented as a player with a incredibly high ceiling. Parcells said when they scouted him they saw a guy WHO COULD become a GREAT DE in time. McNair said we got Mario to get after Peyton, I didn't hear 'We Got Mario to get after Peyton ASAP, as in next year.' from what I took we got MArio as a project. Just like how all the scouts saw him.

Even if there is some quote I missed, I think the coaches didn't expect him to come in and dominate, because it was pretty well known on draft day that he was a project. When guys are drafted in the top 5 they are usually drafted on Potential, potential to be something special and look at his scouting reports, I remember one even saying you wouldn't see a DE coming out like him for the next 10 years. So he was regarded by the general scouts as a 'Special' player.
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A quick google search.. I doubt a player compared to Julius & LT is a project.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/29/sportsline/main1561556.shtml
Listen, I am not saying he is a bust but is not doing what he should by now.
 
gtexan02 said:
Dont you see the trap you've put yourself into though?

When is it ok to be disapointed with a 1st overall pick? 1 year of disapointment? 2 years of disapointment? Lets hope no one says 5 years...oh wait.
But the point Im trying to make is that with the exception of QBs, the 1st overall player taken in the draft really should be a guy who can make an immediate impact.

A team picks 1st because they are the WORST team in the NFL. The WORST team in the NFL doesnt have time to wait 1 or 2 or 5 years for their players to develop.

If the Texans had told me that Mario was going to be a 3 year project, and that we wouldn't see pro bowl numbers from him for 3 years, I would have been against hte pick.

When you are last in the NFL, you need immediate impact guys. Franchises can't really afford to just sit around and hope projects turn out. Thats what teams with depth and good coaching can do.

I don't buy the fact that Mario has always been a project. Everyone on this board was projecting 8-12 sacks from him as a rookie. Then he went a few games without sacks, and got the foot thing, and everyone started making excuses. He came in on fire this year with 2 sacks early and everyone was back on the bandwagon. Now he's slowed down and everyone starts with the excuses again.

Here is how I see it:
Mario is a good, consistent DE
Mario is NOT a game changing DE at this point

And that is something Im disapointed with, and I think its fair to criticize.

This team has spent 4 consecutive years drafting DL in the 1st round. And we STILL dont have a consistent pass rush or run stopper. Thats failure any way you spin it


From what I've read and seen of Mario, I think he is well on his way to developing into a consistent and solid player. But I still think he should have shown more to merit his position in the draft
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Simple, when adequate progession stops. As long as mario continues to progress & get better @ a good clip he's good in my book. IMO, it's hard for any top 5 draft pick to live up to the most times outrageous, expectations some draft gurus & fans put on them, especially when other 2nd day guys begin to make names for themselves. He'd be fine in my book if he were able to progress up to double didget sacks for 4 + years & still be pretty good against the run.
 
badboy said:
A quick google search.. I doubt a player compared to Julius & LT is a project.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/29/sportsline/main1561556.shtml
Listen, I am not saying he is a bust but is not doing what he should by now.
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That is a news article, I have not heard the comparisons to LT, but Peppers sure. Because he is the same body type, put up the same college numbers and combine numbers as Peppers.

What should he be doing by now? Kubiak seems to be pleased by what he's doing.
 
1. The Texans history is to have the #1 overall pick signed before they will draft him.

2. Mario Williams draft grade certainly put him into the discussion as worthy of the #1 overall pick.

3. A franchise DE is a cornerstone to build a great defense around.

4. Character, work ethic & being a team player without ego is very important to Bob McNair & the Texans.

:)
 
In all fairness, Mario should not have been a top 10 pick in that draft class in the first place. Combine stats are a wonderous thing. They can make you go from the 2nd/3rd best player on your college's D-Line to the best player in college in no time.

How is fellow Combine-Warrior Vernan Davis doing so far?
 
The1ApplePie said:
In all fairness, Mario should not have been a top 10 pick in that draft class in the first place. Combine stats are a wonderous thing. They can make you go from the 2nd/3rd best player on your college's D-Line to the best player in college in no time.

How is fellow Combine-Warrior Vernan Davis doing so far?
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Mario had the stats to go with him as well though. They were a bit one-sided, but he had them to go along with his combine results...
 
Mr teX said:
Mario had the stats to go with him as well though. They were a bit one-sided, but he had them to go along with his combine results...
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The big knock was that he made his stats against crappy teams and scrub O-Linemen, where he got destroyed by real college lines (even with them doubeling Lawson all game).

Peppers did the same thing however.
 
The1ApplePie said:
In all fairness, Mario should not have been a top 10 pick in that draft class in the first place. Combine stats are a wonderous thing. They can make you go from the 2nd/3rd best player on your college's D-Line to the best player in college in no time.

How is fellow Combine-Warrior Vernan Davis doing so far?
Click to expand...
He was at the top of the Board of no less an authority on football talent than one Bill Parsells.
And I'm not necessarily saying I agreed with Parsells, but who am I (or you for that matter) to say if Parsells ranked him as the top prospect ?
 
nunusguy said:
He was at the top of the Board of no less an authority on football talent than one Bill Parsells.
And I'm not necessarily saying I agreed with Parsells, but who am I (or you for that matter) to say if Parsells ranked him as the top prospect ?
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Yep, but Tuna said he based it on combine stats alone, and in that reguard, he was a pure freak, which is true. The kid is a freak.
 
I saw Parsells on an ESPN pre-game show last month say Mario was on the top of his Draft Board, his/the Dallas Cowboys Board where he was the HC at the time of the 2006 Draft. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, but "you don't pass up that kind of a prospect because they don't come along very often".
You can say he reached that conclusion more on the basis of the Indy combine/Pro Day results, whatever, I really don't care but he was Parsells top-rated player coming out of college in 2006. End of story.
 
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