Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Draft a RB thread

beerlover

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Do you feel RB is highly rated now on the Texans draft board? Would Kubiak spend a #1 on a RB even if he was not the bpa because of need? Here's a prospect out of Oregon people have been asking about name of Jonathan Stewart, here is his school profile-

http://goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3378&SPID=233&DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=177405&Q_SEASON=2007

If you were the GM/Coach of the Texans would you use the #1 pick in 08 (assuming he declares early) on this RB or other available around the middle of the first?
 
KJ3 said:
early on i see it as a bpa pick as long as bpa is an o'line, linebacker, rb, or a safety.
Click to expand...

what about CB or DE?

KJ3 said:
i'd like to see a good rb on the texans next year. ahman is ahman, he'll get some yards but he just isn't a gamebreaker anymore. a rb to learn the skills and switch out with ahman would make our offense that much deadlier...maybe even deadly in the red zone...
Click to expand...

I agree :)

but what specific skill set is missing from the Texans backfield? or is it heart, determination, intangibles? It seems for the running game to be successful the backs need to be more explosive hitting the holes, decisive in lane recognition & do a better job of keeping balance by using footwork/body lean to pick up extra yardage. instead of 2 yards on 1st & 10 they need to get 3 1/2 yards hitting the hole quicker with more determination will net you that, right now we don't have a back who can do that.

now how do you rate that as a need, or prioitize the rb position on this team with all the other needs? I guess thats why Rick Smith gets paid the big bucks & I'm confident he'll make the right assessment. This is just my humble opinion & beleive me its changed cause I was not on the RB bandwagon as a primary need (even though I'm on record last draft saying if Adrian Peterson somehow slipped to the Texans I would take him, but thats more a case of bpa) but the best way to take the heat off Schaub & the OL is to be able to run the ball effectively. upgrading the Center position with McKinney gone is also critical to the running game, if there is a stud Center available in the first round I'd take him & address RB via free agency (I've noticed you can't aquire really good Centers in FA but you can get RB's).

back to RB prospects this kid from Washington/Oregon is flying under the radar because of the system he plays in, with his strength, size & explosive speed Jonathan Stewart would certainly upgrade the position. of course I also want S Kenny Phillips, OT Ryan Clady, DE Derrick Harvey, CB Reggie Smith, LB James Laurinaitis ........LOL
 
Jonathan Stewart is the guy I want (not surprising since I've been saying since April), unless somehow we wind up in a position to get MacFadden; and I don't think he is flying under anybody's radar. While Oregon has certain ly moved to a spread offense, Stewart had a great yeart last year in a more convetional offense.
 
beerlover said:
what about CB or DE?



I agree :)

but what specific skill set is missing from the Texans backfield? or is it heart, determination, intangibles? It seems for the running game to be successful the backs need to be more explosive hitting the holes, decisive in lane recognition & do a better job of keeping balance by using footwork/body lean to pick up extra yardage. instead of 2 yards on 1st & 10 they need to get 3 1/2 yards hitting the hole quicker with more determination will net you that, right now we don't have a back who can do that.

now how do you rate that as a need, or prioitize the rb position on this team with all the other needs? I guess thats why Rick Smith gets paid the big bucks & I'm confident he'll make the right assessment. This is just my humble opinion & beleive me its changed cause I was not on the RB bandwagon as a primary need (even though I'm on record last draft saying if Adrian Peterson somehow slipped to the Texans I would take him, but thats more a case of bpa) but the best way to take the heat off Schaub & the OL is to be able to run the ball effectively. upgrading the Center position with McKinney gone is also critical to the running game, if there is a stud Center available in the first round I'd take him & address RB via free agency (I've noticed you can't aquire really good Centers in FA but you can get RB's).

back to RB prospects this kid from Washington/Oregon is flying under the radar because of the system he plays in, with his strength, size & explosive speed Jonathan Stewart would certainly upgrade the position. of course I also want S Kenny Phillips, OT Ryan Clady, DE Derrick Harvey, CB Reggie Smith, LB James Laurinaitis ........LOL
Click to expand...

Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.
Click to expand...

he has the size & some saftey experience already so FS might very well become his natural position in the NFL. :)

I've been very frustrated this year trying to catch Oregon/Jonathan Stewart, Dish has changed regions on me for some reason (I will make a call) so I've missed watching games, I think thats a problem for alot of us when it comes to a prospect out of area that makes it hard to eval :mail:
 
I've said that he's the running back that we need since last years draft on the other board. He would be an upgrade to our backs and learn a great deal about playing in the NFL behind Amhan Green for the first few years.
 
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for those
 
There is not a doubt in my mind that Gary Kubiak would draft a RB in the first round if he thought that he needed one. Why this belief persists that Kubiak would never do this I cannot begin to understand.

He tried to do it in his first draft as Texans coach when he attempted to trade back up into the first round to get DeAngelo Williams. He failed and nobody is upset that we got DeMeco Ryans instead but there it is, he tried to do it.

The first round we'll look at positions of need and take the highest rated guy among those players or among all positions if a highly rated player outside of our "most needed" spots happen to fall to us - with very few exceptions. I expect we'd pass on QB, DE/DT, TE, possibly WR.
 
gtexan02 said:
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for those
Click to expand...

your right thats not alot to work with, lets slot our 3rd rd. pick on a Center. that leaves one pick between RB, LT & CB/FS. LT is gonna be real hard to address via FA or costly in a trade. top tier CB's are just plain expensive, do we even have salary cap room? would you be happy if the Texans/Kubiak continue to run out RB's by committe & pass on a true franchise back?

here is hoping, no praying Spencer can return that would solve our LT position. that Bennett does in fact continue to develop alongside fellow gamecock Dunta Robinson w/Von Hutchins (2nd on team in tackles) @ FS.

not bad, well not as grievous to me as our RB situation. without a running game the Texans will continue to struggle in the red zone, at least until Andre comes back. the Texans say they are committed to running the ball, listening to Kubiak yesterday he remains very positive about Ahman Green & that he is now 100% healthy, I hope he's right...we'll see but maybe its time to invest a #1 pick on a RB http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...745&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Love that wish list by the way, but would you leave Smith at CB? He seems to fit more into a FS role in the NFL to me right now.

On the topic of RB's, we just need a legit back. We don't need anymore steamrollers. We need a guy who can hit the right hole and make something happen. We need a RB that a LB can't chase down from behind. We need a true RB. I called before the season I wasn't expecting much out of Green, but honestly, he surprised me pre-injury. Regardless, he isn't our answer. I'm really high on Felix Jones out of Arkansas, but he may chose to stay for a better spot...though it's not like playing without McFadden and at Arkansas is going to help his chances of more money. I am not high on Slaton. I'm undecided on Stewart right now. I might look at someone like Mike Hart on the second day too.
Click to expand...

I dont see Hart falling to day 2.

He's not physically imposing, he's not incredibly fast, but he never fumbles & he just gets it done.

You cant put a price on intangibles & Hart leads the pack in that area, guaranteed.
 
Jonathan Stewart looks like a beast and if we select him in the first I wouldn't be upset one bit.

However, I'm not so sure we would select him strictly out of need. FS (Reggie Smith?), LT (Barry Richardson?), OLB (Dan Connor?) are other potential needs that could be BPA. It depends how the Texans grade these players, well and others, and who's available. If they think a FS or a OLB is a better pick than Stewart...I don't think they'd go with the RB.

I'm just very upset with our OL right now and think we gotta strengthen that. If Spencer doesn't come back and take over the LT position- we're screwed next season. Plain and simple...if spencer can't do it... our passing game and running game will not be very good even with Green & Stewart combination.

Could be a good year to trade down and pick up extra pick(s), and just select a real quality player. Trade farther down in the first and grab a 2nd or 3rd rder...and take the BPA at that point.
 
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are not going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.
 
real said:
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I actually agree for the most part. I'm not really keen on giving up the picks for a RB, but we almost need to it seems. I'm really in favor of opening the wallet for a FA CB. I actually think the FO is comfortable with the OT's we have, and I am really in favor of letting Winston have a shot at LT when Spencer either fails to make it back or fails to be what everyone wants. We need a true C, but we can't really afford one honestly. We need so much help, but a 6th round project C isn't going to work for us.
 
real said:
I think in the first we need to take BPA from the following positions:

FS
CB
RB
OLB
LT
C

Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.

I'd take the OLB. Then I'd try to trade a 3rd and a 5th for a mid second rounder or something, and pick up the best RB available....That way I'd have Green, and that RB then I'd let Chris Taylor, Gado, Dayne, and Walker battle for the last 1 or two spots.


I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...

But of course this is October. I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

you bring up two good points-
real said:
Taking a look at how things are shaping up I'm thinking the best players on the board will be either a RB, OLB and maybe a top ranked LT will slip a bit.
Click to expand...

unless there is a LT on the rise (last year Joe Staley) or a FS/CB who slips I think your right.

real said:
I'm not thinking we are going to take a LT this next year because Kubiak sounded pretty confident Spencer would be back. Plus we signed Rashaard Butler...and we have Frye on the PS...Plus we still have Salaam and Black...I dunno, but for some reason I think the Texans are comfortable with what they have there...
Click to expand...

it says they know they got a problem & have thrown everything but the kitchen sink (1st rd. pick) to solve it.

& theres one thing that supports the Texans addressing the offense first this year because the last FOUR DRAFTS the Texans have used their #1 pick on defense. hence by process of elimination its a RB that helps Schaub, the offensive line & helps reduce the defense time on the field.
 
enough opinion before leaving for work I'm going to do some research comparing the bpa with where the RB's where selected according to OURLADS over the past three drafts-

2005

9.59 (rated #1) Ronnie Brown - selected #2
9.49 (rated #6) Carnell Williams - selected #5
9.39 (rated #9) Cedric Benson - selected #4
4.99 (rated 172) Frank Gore - selected #65

2006

9.65 (rated #1) Reggie Bush - selected #2
9.44 (rated #10) Lendale White - selected #45
9.40 (rated #14) DeAngelo Williams - selected #27
9.38 (rated #16) Laurence Maroney - selected #21
8.69 (rated #53) Joseph Addai - selected #30
6.94 (rated #99) Maurice Drew - selected 60

2007

9.59 (rated #3) Adrian Peterson - selected #7
9.24 (rated #15) Marshawn Lynch - selected #12

summary

one. even the best draft service is not perfect
two. teams have a better idea who fits their system
three. teams do draft RB based on need, regardless of rating
 
beerlover said:
enough opinion before leaving for work I'm going to do some research comparing the bpa with where the RB's where selected according to OURLADS over the past three drafts-

2005

9.59 (rated #1) Ronnie Brown - selected #2
9.49 (rated #6) Carnell Williams - selected #5
9.39 (rated #9) Cedric Benson - selected #4
4.99 (rated 172) Frank Gore - selected #65

2006

9.65 (rated #1) Reggie Bush - selected #2
9.44 (rated #10) Lendale White - selected #45
9.40 (rated #14) DeAngelo Williams - selected #27
9.38 (rated #16) Laurence Maroney - selected #21
8.69 (rated #53) Joseph Addai - selected #30
6.94 (rated #99) Maurice Drew - selected 60

2007

9.59 (rated #3) Adrian Peterson - selected #7
9.24 (rated #15) Marshawn Lynch - selected #12

summary

one. even the best draft service is not perfect
two. teams have a better idea who fits their system
three. teams do draft RB based on need, regardless of rating
Click to expand...

four. 2006 was an insane year for running backs
 
infantrycak said:
How are you differentiating drafting on need v. a team having a much different evaluation of who was bpa?
Click to expand...

standard deviation +/- from general consensus value to actual real value of the pick. Bush & Peterson would be BPA (-) both drafted lower than rated while Joseph Addai & Maruice Drew (+) taken higher than projected.
 
How do you know where that team actually had said player ranked on their draft board ?

BPA to one team may not be BPA to another team...?
 
beerlover said:
standard deviation +/- from general consensus value to actual real value of the pick. Bush & Peterson would be BPA (-) both drafted lower than rated while Joseph Addai & Maruice Drew (+) taken higher than projected.
Click to expand...

real said:
How do you know where that team actually had said player ranked on their draft board ?

BPA to one team may not be BPA to another team...?
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting at. The fact that Addai was taken higher than draftniks projected (i.e. depending on the draftnik something between throwing a dart at the wall and an educated guess) says nothing about the Colts' draft board. They may have had him ranked even higher than where they took him and in their minds were getting a draft steal on value rather than pushing a need. A Texans' example may be DeMeco Ryans who they had ranked as a mid-late 1st rounder who they didn't expect to be there but many draft sites had going lower than where we took him.
 
infantrycak said:
A Texans' example may be DeMeco Ryans who they had ranked as a mid-late 1st rounder who they didn't expect to be there but many draft sites had going lower than where we took him.
Click to expand...

Thanks infantrycak....this really excites me and made my day better. We got such a steal!!
 
this applies to all positions of course, but throw in a little common sense. everyone knew the Colts where unloading Edge & needed a replacement. from what I've seen you could plug almost any RB in that system with that line & still be effective. if the Colts didn't use their 1st rd. pick on him the draft board suggests he'd be gone by the second rd. (#62) or they would have had to trade up (since he was rated @ that point in the draft as the best RB available, thats different than bpa).

speaking of DeMeco Ryans, the Texans took him @ #33 well ourlads had him rated #27 Charles Spencer taken by the Texans @ #65 was rated #35 you could make a stronger case that he was the bpa but as we all know both filled huge needs.
 
You need to stop confussing Ourlads'/any draft service's rankings with team's draftboards.

It's been pretty obvious over the years that the teams are much, much better at evaluating talent then the draft service's are.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
You need to stop confussing Ourlads'/any draft service's rankings with team's draftboards.

It's been pretty obvious over the years that the teams are much, much better at evaluating talent then the draft service's are.
Click to expand...

did I not say they where not perfect :ok:

also stated that teams do a much better job knowing who fits their systems better & what they really need, but thanks for your :twocents:
 
beerlover said:
this applies to all positions of course, but throw in a little common sense. everyone knew the Colts where unloading Edge & needed a replacement. from what I've seen you could plug almost any RB in that system with that line & still be effective. if the Colts didn't use their 1st rd. pick on him the draft board suggests he'd be gone by the second rd. (#62) or they would have had to trade up (since he was rated @ that point in the draft as the best RB available, thats different than bpa).
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you come to these conclusions....

Just look at the top of the '06 draft for instance...

We took Mario over Reggie and D-Brick....Two positions that one might have argued we needed more help at....

The Saints took RB....Clearly a position they didn't need....

And then the Titans took VY over Matt Leinart...Many people had Leinart as the the best overall QB in the draft, but the Titans liked VY...

And then to top it all off...Leinart fell all the way to ten while being passed by three teams that needed a QB...Oakland, Buffalo, and Detroit...

What seems like a "common sense" pick to one person may not be a smart pick to someone else...I just think it's all relative to that individual team...
 
beerlover said:
did I not say they where not perfect :ok:

also stated that teams do a much better job knowing who fits their systems better & what they really need, but thanks for your :twocents:
Click to expand...

Fair enough. It's just you seem to base alot of your posts on where Ourlad's had a player ranked and I think that leads to flawed conclussions.
 
gtexan02 said:
The problem is, we have 1 1st rounder, no 2nds, and 1 3rd rounder.

We REALLY need secondary help. Our defense is worse than our offense at this point. In order of needs, I'd say, assuming Fred Bennet becomes our #2 CB:

FS
LT
RB
C

And we only have 2 first day picks for those
Click to expand...
Sign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leach and TEs would score more. Wrong.
 
badboy said:
Sign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leech and TEs would score more. Wrong.
Click to expand...

Sorry but what is some posters here obession with moving a CB to safety? I don't like the idea at all.Few CBs really successfully make that transition or have the size to. Rod Woodson is one of the few exceptions off the top of my head.

Say it once and again I don't trust players post NE. Some palyers have cashed in and done very little to date after moving on while the Pats seem to plug in someone else and still are successful. People talk about system players coming out of college i guess it's the same way with NE schemeing (at least in my mind)..

We need to go either LT or RB first round. I also wouldn't mind a great OLB. I think that would really help our defense out.

I'd rather go after Asomaugh from Oakland if we're going FA CB. Quentin Jammmer Will be availble.There not really any big name LB's available that i know of.Looking at the FA list as of right now no one jumps out.

Great teams build through the draft and hire FA guns when needed.
 
beerlover said:
you bring up two good points-

unless there is a LT on the rise (last year Joe Staley) or a FS/CB who slips I think your right. STALEY WAS KNOWN TO HAVE A WEAK POINT OF ATTACK AND WAS NOT A GOOD RUN BLOCKING TACKLE. WITH OUR SCHEME, HE DID NOT LEAP OFF THE PAGE AS WHAT WE NEEDED. SUPPOSEDLY LTs WILL BE AVAILABLE WHEN WE PICK IN FIRST IF TEAM DECIDES TO GO THERE.



it says they know they got a problem & have thrown everything but the kitchen sink (1st rd. pick) to solve it.

& theres one thing that supports the Texans addressing the offense first this year because the last FOUR DRAFTS the Texans have used their #1 pick on defense. hence by process of elimination its a RB that helps Schaub, the offensive line & helps reduce the defense time on the field.
Click to expand...
SAME ARGUMENT COULD HAVE BEEN USED LAST DRAFT (AND WAS BY ME) BUT GUESS WHO GOT DRAFTED?
 
Goldensilence said:
Sorry but what is some posters here obession with moving a CB to safety? I don't like the idea at all.Few CBs really successfully make that transition or have the size to. Rod Woodson is one of the few exceptions off the top of my head.

Say it once and again I don't trust players post NE. Some palyers have cashed in and done very little to date after moving on while the Pats seem to plug in someone else and still are successful. People talk about system players coming out of college i guess it's the same way with NE schemeing (at least in my mind)..

We need to go either LT or RB first round. I also wouldn't mind a great OLB. I think that would really help our defense out.

I'd rather go after Asomaugh from Oakland if we're going FA CB. Quentin Jammmer Will be availble.There not really any big name LB's available that i know of.Looking at the FA list as of right now no one jumps out.

Great teams build through the draft and hire FA guns when needed.
Click to expand...

No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.
 
badboy said:
No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.
Click to expand...

Hence the use of the word SOME. I've seen suggestions on moving Dunta over there. I just haven't seen a high success ratio of guys making an impact jumping the spot. Unless we've forgotten the Coleman jump.I'm not refusing. I just plain don't like the idea and don't see why it keeps geting floated.

I'm still not sure if Richard Smith has a grasp on what he wants to do defensively.
 
badboy said:
Sign Assante Samuel for your CB in Free Agency move Bennett (4.45 speed) to FS. Sign RB in first and LT in 3rd or vice versa. 4th round grab best center available. 5th best OLB. IMO FA does not offer any RBs to solve our problem and probably no unrestirctive LT will be available.

Our problem is not getting to red zone. 30% completion of getting INTO RZ is issue. Green, Dayne nor Gado has been the answer. I was hopeful Leach and TEs would score more. Wrong.
Click to expand...

If moving Bennett to FS was an option don't you think it would have made a tons more sense to have him start at FS from Day 1 of the rookie camp? Why spend a year coaching him on CB technigues to then just move him to FS a year later.
 
badboy said:
SAME ARGUMENT COULD HAVE BEEN USED LAST DRAFT (AND WAS BY ME) BUT GUESS WHO GOT DRAFTED?
Click to expand...

If we beleive what was said "Amobi Okoye was the #1 defensive player on their board" & bpa I have no problem with it (the week of the draft I had the Texans selecting him too) because I'm suspicious of the need to prove the Mario pick overwhelming case not so far fetched- this is excatly where need(s) = bpa

Personally I wanted a LT, yall know who but he was taken #5 overall, now it remains to be seen how that particular group develops as a whole the rest of the season into the combine, I'm not sold on any as of yet. If it where today & I could be resonably assured the Texans where picking, say late teens, if a RB was rated high enough on the Texans board vs. a LT similarly rated as bpa the Texans should take the RB. I know this is a departure but this is a different QB, a different group of players & the inability to run the ball is @ the central core of the problem along with stronger Center play that Vinny had mentioned at least two years ago & its only getting worse with McKinney gone. those are two huge gapping holes/needs that bpa or not if a close enough deviation warrents should become the overriding factor. I figured posting ourlads numbers would suggest the varibility of draft board to draft board & that bpa is merely a figment of any teams imagination thats fluid up & into the actual draft itself :cool:
 
Goldensilence said:
Hence the use of the word SOME. I've seen suggestions on moving Dunta over there. I just haven't seen a high success ratio of guys making an impact jumping the spot. Unless we've forgotten the Coleman jump.I'm not refusing. I just plain don't like the idea and don't see why it keeps geting floated.

I'm still not sure if Richard Smith has a grasp on what he wants to do defensively.
Click to expand...
Since you quoted my post and then said obsession I thought you meant me. I can understand that some CBs should not be moved to safety, but it is done. I think Dunte, Samuel, Bennett and best of SS on roster could be a formidable back field. Especially if my suggestion resolves two positions and does not entail a draft pick.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
If moving Bennett to FS was an option don't you think it would have made a tons more sense to have him start at FS from Day 1 of the rookie camp? Why spend a year coaching him on CB technigues to then just move him to FS a year later.
Click to expand...
Bennett is not an option at FS unless we plug hole @ CB. By signing a FA of Samuel's caliber, CB is no longer a need. Most think Faggins can handle nickle and Bennett size and speed can move him to another hole Free safety.
 
badboy said:
Bennett is not an option at FS unless we plug hole @ CB. By signing a FA of Samuel's caliber, CB is no longer a need. Most think Faggins can handle nickle and Bennett size and speed can move him to another hole Free safety.
Click to expand...

Like I said, if the team wanted to or thought they could move Bennett to FS why would they not do it from Day 1 of rookie camps? It's not like Kubiak and company wern't telling us how good they thought Petey was going to be at the #2 CB spot.

This idea that you can move a CB to FS is getting out of control. First it was Robinson, now it's Bennett. Doesn't anybody remember how poorly Coleman played as a FS. A big CB does not equal a good FS. Guys who can play S and guys who can player CB are two very different players.

FYI, Samuel's goiong to be looking to be the highest paid CB in the league in the offseason; and I don't h in khe will be worth that kind of money.
 
badboy said:
No obsession on my part on moving a CB to FS. There is a hole, I offer a suggestion. Sounds as if the obession is yours on refusing to consider the idea. FYI Fred Bennett is 6' 2" 227 lbs and 4.45 40 speed. He has the build to play safety and more importantly speed and ability to hit. I'm ok with him at CB, but you can buy a very good CB this off season with the $30 million in cap space and still maybe pick up another need or two.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, but Fred Bennett is only 6-0 & 197 lbs, unless he has put on 30 lbs since the season started.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=10566

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=287
 
Assuming that we can get a 100% Charles Spencer back, my draft priorities are

FS
RB
C
OLB
CB
 
bah007 said:
Just FYI, but Fred Bennett is only 6-0 & 197 lbs, unless he has put on 30 lbs since the season started.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?playerId=10566

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=287
Click to expand...
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.
 
badboy said:
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.
Click to expand...



You were probably thinking of Brandon Harrison.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Like I said, if the team wanted to or thought they could move Bennett to FS why would they not do it from Day 1 of rookie camps? It's not like Kubiak and company wern't telling us how good they thought Petey was going to be at the #2 CB spot.

This idea that you can move a CB to FS is getting out of control. First it was Robinson, now it's Bennett. Doesn't anybody remember how poorly Coleman played as a FS. A big CB does not equal a good FS. Guys who can play S and guys who can player CB are two very different players.

FYI, Samuel's goiong to be looking to be the highest paid CB in the league in the offseason; and I don't h in khe will be worth that kind of money.
Click to expand...
And as I have said, Bennett was not drafted to be a safety. Abbatte was signed for one positioned and played at FB. Not all cbs can play S or vice versa. Bennett may be one that can adjust. Why not consider it? Especially if you lock up CB in FA?
 
badboy said:
You are correct. I had his size and speed hand written on the list of draft picks & can't recall where I got 227, but it was wrong. I hesitated (for what that's worth) when I typed my post, but was in hurry and should have researched. Still my point is his size is more than enough to play FS and he does have speed of a corner.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of Brandon Harrison.

Edit--oops, beat to the punch.
 
badboy said:
And as I have said, Bennett was not drafted to be a safety. Abbatte was signed for one positioned and played at FB. Not all cbs can play S or vice versa. Bennett may be one that can adjust. Why not consider it? Especially if you lock up CB in FA?
Click to expand...

IF, and I say once again if, the team thought that Bennett could possible be the answer at Fs, why would they have drafted Harrison in the next round? Why would they not have moved Bennett to FS at the start of rookie camps, and not waste a year at CB (and possible having to contridict everything you coached into him this year)?

All I am saying that it is obvious that the team, who know more about the players and their abilities then you or I combined, has shown nothing that would lead anybody to believe that Bennett will play anywhere but CB. Add to that how much Kubiak thought of Faggins at the start of the season, and the team still never considered moving Bennett (as evident by the fact that he got ZERO reps at any position besides CB).

If you think moving from LB to FB is the same as moving from CB to FS...then good for you. I don't think the comparisoon is even remotly similar.

Also Samuel is not going to be worth the amount of money it will cost to sign him.

Clmon guys, how aften to do see a team move a young CB to FS? And when it does happen how often does it work? There is a difference between drafting a college CB to play FS (whichi does work), and moving a rookie CB to FS (which does not happen all that often).
 
Hoth-Boy said:
IF, and I say once again if, the team thought that Bennett could possible be the answer at Fs, why would they have drafted Harrison in the next round? Why would they not have moved Bennett to FS at the start of rookie camps, and not waste a year at CB (and possible having to contridict everything you coached into him this year)?

All I am saying that it is obvious that the team, who know more about the players and their abilities then you or I combined, has shown nothing that would lead anybody to believe that Bennett will play anywhere but CB. Add to that how much Kubiak thought of Faggins at the start of the season, and the team still never considered moving Bennett (as evident by the fact that he got ZERO reps at any position besides CB).

If you think moving from LB to FB is the same as moving from CB to FS...then good for you. I don't think the comparisoon is even remotly similar.

Also Samuel is not going to be worth the amount of money it will cost to sign him.

Clmon guys, how aften to do see a team move a young CB to FS? And when it does happen how often does it work? There is a difference between drafting a college CB to play FS (whichi does work), and moving a rookie CB to FS (which does not happen all that often).
Click to expand...

Hothboy, we just ain't connecting today. I NEVER said he was drafted to play free safety. He was selected to be a corner and has been training for that. Does that mean he can NEVER play safety? NO. There are several options for next season. One of those I presented was moving a big fast Bennett to FS as I think he will be better than anyone we now have. If successful that eliminates using a pick on FS. We only do that move IF we get a CB such as Samuel in free agency. CB & FS two large holes would then be filled with NO loss of draft picks. We could the use 1st and third to fill holes at RB and LT best avail or whatever. Most teams do not take a center day one. There is a reason for that. I am not saying it can't be done just that it usually is not. 4th round go center, again resolving a weakness. (If Chris White works out use the 4th for another area. I know he's short but so was Mark Stepnowski) 5th I can see going for OLB.
 
ironic that the Texans traded their original 4th rd. pick (#107) to N.O. who wound up being a RB (Antonio Pittman) on a thread about the Texans drafting a RB :rofl:

Antonio Pittman was ranked 3rd overall (8.75) among the 07 RB class according to OURLADS, 42 overall. did N.O. have him @ the top of their board as bpa? is that the reason they where willing to give up the extra pick to move up & take him or was it out of need?

anyway they ended up releasing him during their final roster cuts & he wound up in St. Louis & so far not much production to show for it. so in essence the Texans wound up with a young CB who is now getting some playing time & a young OL to develop while N.O. has nothing to show for their 07 4th & 5th rd. picks.

another point & a real concern to me at least is evaluation of the RB position. obvious N.O. & ourlads missed something about Pittman. to me he lacked measureables & was a product of the system @ Ohio State. once in a while you can find a Maurice Drew later in the draft but when it comes to a sure thing & addressing this need its best to address it early, 1st rd. early. heck if there is a chink in the New England Patriots its the fact their running backs are all injured or less than 100%. you need quality depth at this position at least two studs to limit wear & tear if nothing else to keep both healthy.
 
badboy said:
Hothboy, we just ain't connecting today. I NEVER said he was drafted to play free safety. He was selected to be a corner and has been training for that. Does that mean he can NEVER play safety? NO. There are several options for next season. One of those I presented was moving a big fast Bennett to FS as I think he will be better than anyone we now have. If successful that eliminates using a pick on FS. We only do that move IF we get a CB such as Samuel in free agency. CB & FS two large holes would then be filled with NO loss of draft picks. We could the use 1st and third to fill holes at RB and LT best avail or whatever. Most teams do not take a center day one. There is a reason for that. I am not saying it can't be done just that it usually is not. 4th round go center, again resolving a weakness. (If Chris White works out use the 4th for another area. I know he's short but so was Mark Stepnowski) 5th I can see going for OLB.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I just don't believe that you can move many players from CB to FS the positions are very different and reguire differnt kind of players. Regardless of what the team does in FA I don't want to find out if Bennett can do it. I think there is a real chance that movinig Bennett to FS may hurt his development as a CB, and CB's are worth more and are harder to find then FS's.

I'm also a little tired of the whole "we can move a CB to FS to fix our FS issues" idea. First is was suggested with Dunta Robinson, now it's Fred Bennett. The idea is gettting up there with the VY v Reggie debates from 06.

Regardless of what the team does, I don't think there is any chance that the team moves Bennett to FS. IF they felt he could play FS at all, I'm sure they (the coaches) would be getting him some reps or they would have already moved him.

Bennett is a CB, leave him as a CB.

And you might wnat to give up the Samuel pipe dream. I doubt Rick Smith will offer the kind of money the Samuel wants, and will get from somebody other then the Texans. Why not go after Ricardo Cocleagh(sp?) from Pittsburgh?
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Maybe, but I just don't believe that you can move many players from CB to FS the positions are very different and reguire differnt kind of players. Regardless of what the team does in FA I don't want to find out if Bennett can do it. I think there is a real chance that movinig Bennett to FS may hurt his development as a CB, and CB's are worth more and are harder to find then FS's.

I'm also a little tired of the whole "we can move a CB to FS to fix our FS issues" idea. First is was suggested with Dunta Robinson, now it's Fred Bennett. The idea is gettting up there with the VY v Reggie debates from 06.

Regardless of what the team does, I don't think there is any chance that the team moves Bennett to FS. IF they felt he could play FS at all, I'm sure they (the coaches) would be getting him some reps or they would have already moved him.

Bennett is a CB, leave him as a CB.

And you might wnat to give up the Samuel pipe dream. I doubt Rick Smith will offer the kind of money the Samuel wants, and will get from somebody other then the Texans. Why not go after Ricardo Cocleagh(sp?) from Pittsburgh?
Click to expand...

Ricardo Colclough 5'11" 195 25yoa
http://news.steelers.com/team/player/49205/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6797/career
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5563

Tell me why you want this guy? I realize he will probably be cheap.
 
badboy said:
Ricardo Colclough 5'11" 195 25yoa
http://news.steelers.com/team/player/49205/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6797/career
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5563

Tell me why you want this guy? I realize he will probably be cheap.
Click to expand...

He's played in a 3-4, which puts it's Cbs on an island. He would be a good #2 CB. Cost, because Samuel is going to want to be the highest paid DB in the NFL and I don't think he is worth it.

I've just been looking over who might be available in the offseason, and who might come at a reasonable price.

I think Samuel is a pipe-dream.

Nevermind. Ricardo isn't free till next year. :gun:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top