Head Coaches to replace Capers. Who is out there?

There has been much talk about fire Dom Capers this and fire Dom Capers that. My question is, who is out there that we could bring in? Reason why I ask is because each year we have seen improvement with this team (and yes there was much improvement this year than last). If we bring in someone else, who is to say that guy wont screw everything up? Sure it is easy to say fire the coach and get somebody else but it could backfire and ruin the steadily improving team we have right now.

Who is out there that could come in and right this ship that is on plan IMO?

It's a moot point this year anyway because he won't be fired/replaced. Some feel on here that he will be under fire next year to produce a winning record or his job may be in jeopardy. I'm sort of beginning to think that may just be the case.

We will know of more head coaches being fired in the next week or so. But I think if you repleace dom, its with a assistant coach. Like Romeo, or someone who has the skills.

I wouldn't buy into an ounce of talk about replacing Capers. It isn't going to happen.

yeah, especially not this year. I don't see anyone out there who can do what Capers has done so far with the Texans. I'll admit I often get frusterated witht he conservative play-calling but I think he is doing a good job. I wish the Texans were further along but Capers is safe for now. If McNair is happy with Capers, which I think he is then no one else's opinion matters!

WWJD said:

It's a moot point this year anyway because he won't be fired/replaced...

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I agree.

Hey, if you are playing fantasy anyway, I say hire Keyser Soyez, or Neo (after all ... he is the one).

Capers isn't going anywhere.

But, if we were without a head coach and looking...I really like Urban Meyer. Something about his spread offense looks awfuly inviting for our Texans.
He seems to me like he wouldn't be one of those college coaches that would flop upon entering the NFL.

Really? Meyer? huh, well I would like to see the Texans open it up more on offense and that's what would happen. But I don't know after seeing how Spurrier flopped I would be hesistant of any college coach trying to install a spread or fun-n-gun O in the NFL.

If you guys were to replace Capers, which you aren't this year, the guy you could hire that would scare me the most is Romeo Crennel. Now that guy can coach a defense, and he's already an expert in a 3-4 so you wouldn't have to make a radical shift in personnel.

Yeah no doubt Crenel can coach, he would be a cadidate but for now Capers is a Texan and will actually be a Texan for at least 2 more seasons.

Hey guys capers isn't going anywhere atleast not this year.

It is not that we think he is going anywhere. This thread is to ask those who want him fired, who they think could do a better job. There certainly isn't anyone I can think of right off the bat that could make this team turn the corner. Also what makes everything so sure that if Capers were to be fired, that the next guy wouldn't make the team regress more.

No way we even think about firing Capers right now. If anything, he's done a great job putting this Texans team together, and for that point alone, he deserves to be the head coach for the whole 5 years he's been contracted to. Expecially since this is still a young team, this is not a situation to change a head coach right now.

However, if we don't at least go above .500 the next two seasons, than we might probably start looking...

WWJD said:

It's a moot point this year anyway because he won't be fired/replaced. Some feel on here that he will be under fire next year to produce a winning record or his job may be in jeopardy. I'm sort of beginning to think that may just be the case.

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I don't believe that -- not for a second. Perhaps some folks on this board are expecting a winning record and therefore believe that, but that is ludicrous. This team just finished their third year. An 8-8 team would be fine because it would represent progression and that's exactly what Capers said he was trying to do -- improve year by year. If you get a new coach after next year, it might set "The Team" back five years -- maybe more.

Vinny said:

I wouldn't buy into an ounce of talk about replacing Capers. It isn't going to happen.

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I totally agree 100% Why would the Texans fire a coach that has shown improvement every year? Why would the Texans fire a coach who has stuck with the original plan since day 1? It would not and does not make any sense. If Dom got fired, I'd really question management and myself as far as being a Texans fan. They're on the right track with Dom Capers as head coach.

I am not in love with Capers and wasn't when we hired him, but the team has gotten better every year and whether you agree with it or not he has an idea of what type of style he want to play on both offense and defense.

They really can't help but to improve.They are not improving in some areas.This next year will be the key.A dog can hunt or it can't and after 4 years they better have jumped to a real playoff contender.
I'd vote for Crenel.

Jimmy Johnson out of retirement or just promote Toro!

I am available and will coach for food!

I like Capers and hope that he will win a Super Bowl here. He will definitely be the coach here for at least two more seasons.

However, if the Texans had to hire a new head coach this offseason I would want Jeff Fisher.

I for one will be happy to see Capers back next season and if the Texans continue to get better then the season after that. Just once before I die (which hopefully will be many years from now) I'd like to see someone brought in to build something be given enough time to really be able to determine whether or not they did it right. It seems like time and time again coaches get a chance to coach a team and before they've even been given enough time to do anything with it they're dumped. Like or dislike Chris Palmer you have to admit that the Browns didn't even keep him around long enough to tell whether he was going to be able to build that team. Before he even had a good core of players he was out the door. Dom in Carolina was able to build quickly with veterans and they went to the NFC Championship in their second season. When the completely natural thing happened and the team got old quick he wasn't given the time to rebuild. Only Tom Coughlin comes to mind as a recent expansion coach who was given enough time to do the job.

I think it'll be a refreshing change of pace to see what happens when Capers gets 5 or 6 years. If we're winning then the Texans will look brilliant and if we're losing then nobody will be able to say that Capers didn't have the time to do the job.

The Cowboys sure gave Tom Landry plenty of time to develop a team. After their fourth year in 1963, people were saying that Landry was going to have to win the next season or get fired. The Cowboys showed their faith in Landry by signing him to a 10 year contract. They went on to have another losing season in 1964 and only broke even in 1965, their 6th season. But then in 1966 they began a long string of winning seasons. If the Cowboys had given in to public pressure, Tom Landry would be known as a coaching failure in Dallas.

with all the threads on this subject i'm just gonna keep saying this...if you want to fire capers it's really gonna limit you to who you can bring in because we only have the defensive personal for a 3-4 defense...you'll have to bring in another 3-4 coach...and personally i don't see that happening

Hervoyel said:

I for one will be happy to see Capers back next season and if the Texans continue to get better then the season after that. Just once before I die (which hopefully will be many years from now) I'd like to see someone brought in to build something be given enough time to really be able to determine whether or not they did it right. It seems like time and time again coaches get a chance to coach a team and before they've even been given enough time to do anything with it they're dumped. Like or dislike Chris Palmer you have to admit that the Browns didn't even keep him around long enough to tell whether he was going to be able to build that team. Before he even had a good core of players he was out the door. Dom in Carolina was able to build quickly with veterans and they went to the NFC Championship in their second season. When the completely natural thing happened and the team got old quick he wasn't given the time to rebuild. Only Tom Coughlin comes to mind as a recent expansion coach who was given enough time to do the job.

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The problem is that if it is decided at the end of 5 years that Capers didn't cut it then we just wasted our first 5 years because we BLINDLY said he is here for 5 years regardless. No evaluation along the way. IMHO Capers is nothing more than a defensive cordinator. He isn't head coach material. The only way Capers could get us to the super bowl is with a good enough cordinators and he just stayed out of the way. Our team sure lacked the heart it showed the 2nd year.

Hervoyel said:

I think it'll be a refreshing change of pace to see what happens when Capers gets 5 or 6 years. If we're winning then the Texans will look brilliant and if we're losing then nobody will be able to say that Capers didn't have the time to do the job.

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So what is the measuring stick along the way that Capers is judged by? Season record alone? I think the Texans looked really bad offensively this year but yes they were better than the previous 2. I think the offense is hurt more by our playbook than anything else. We could question our drafts offensively by taking Carr and Johnson if Capers just wants to pound the ball and play conservatively. Our offensive line is terrible. Say what you want but it wasn't smart to change the line blocking scheme and shuffle players after we showed marked improvement from year 1 to year 2. I know zone bocking has nothing to do with passing downs but something sure caused them to take a step backwards in pass blocking. Maybe trying to digest the zone blocking broke their rhythm for pass blocking. Maybe it was the shuffling. Maybe they aren't the right size and type of linemen for zone blocking.
Capers is like David Schwimmer (Friends) on Band of Brothers. He can whip em into shape but he doesn't know how to lead them.
Bottom line is we did improve but not enough regardless of our record. We took just as many steps backwards as we did forward. Dunta was our best drafted player yet. I would say Johnson but we will never use him to his full potential.

I would disagree with the statement that our playbook has hampered our offense more than anything else. I think you could use any playbook in the NFL and we'd still have limited success with our o-line. We simply cannot open up the passing game with no protection. The opposing defense can create monster pressure with a four man rush, and take Carr's downfield options away with the other seven men they have on the field which leaves him with the little desperation dunks to Domanick. Our running game has steadily improved this season, and is pretty close to where it was last season, IMO. When you can run for a buck fifty against the Jags you're doing alright. As far as the Texans not drafting correctly if they're going to be playing a conservative style of football, I disagree again. I think we've taken the player we thought had the most talent and potential with our choices, and I agree with that strategy.

As for Capers, I'm all for giving him 5+ years. I agree with Herv that he should be given his time in the spotlight to perform. Look at the revolving door they call the head coach in cleveland. You can't expect instant results and turnarounds from an expansion franchise which, from the onset, was being methodically built for a super bowl run. Capers has a blue print for what he thinks will bring a championship to Houston. McNair and Casserly are well aware of what he's trying to do, and they knew it when they began this thing. Give Capers the chance to finish his plan, we're already 3 seasons into the five year plan. Why start over when we're so close to reaping the fruits of our labor?

Several of you talk about the 'plan'--for some it's a 4yr plan, others a 5 yr
plan and for others a 6 yr plan that is still growing.

For me, having a plan translates to stability--define what the plan is and
what it will take to achieve the plan. A plan does not translate in to change
because the whole idea of the time frame is to give the plan time to succeed.
If you are always making changes to the plan, what are you really doing?
You are adding more time to achieving the goals of the plan.

We made a major change in our blocking scheme in mid stream with a group
of players who were not only new to the scheme, but were also new to
each other and (in many cases) their posisition.

Our Coach wants us to be a power running team. Going into our 4th year,
do we have the players to achieve this goal (plan)?

We can not protect our quarterback. We can not pressure/sack the opposing
teams quarterback.

The plan. Maybe there really is one- maybe there isn't. By now, even in losing, we should have some idea of what that plan is and how we're going
to make it happen. Do we have an idea(s)?....or do we just need to keep
adding more time?

Overall I think Capers is meeting expectations. No doubt there have been moments of disappointment and frustration, but I think he's done a good job. But I'll humor you on this one. "IF" a coaching change was made I'd go after Crennel or Jimmy Johnson. Flip a coin and I'd be happy.

Nolan (Defensive Coord/ Balitmore Ravens)

I really don't like the 3-4 personally but since the Texans seem to be set on the 3-4, might as well get a coach that knows what the 3-4 is all about. For his Ray Lewis he has Jamie Sharper. For his Terrell Suggs he has Antwann Peek. For Peter Boulware he has Jason Babin. and For the sake of the arguement if he came this season do you think, Edgerton Hartwell would have any reason not to come to Houston.... NO!!

LB Core: Peek/Wong, Hartwell, Sharper, Babin

Pertaining to the D-Line the got the proper amount of pressure from the LBs that he didn't have to have this High Priced Pass Rushing Line. Adalius Thomas played some End but that's it. So all these overpaid - no sack having - none penetrating D-Linemen we have now could be let go and this clears up soooooo much cap room from other upgrades.

While he doesn't have a human highlight reel like Ed Reed back their i think he could find or sign one in the near future. Also he probably would be thinking Youth Injection so I could see Auburn's star CB Rogers in a Texan's Uniform and probably Darnell Bing or Thomas Davis back there.

DB Core: Robinson, Bing/Davis, Earl, Glenn/Rogers

We get him a go Offensive Coordinator and we will be good to go. I'm pretty sure that we would be able to get any good coordinator that would love to have Carr, Davis and Johnson at their hands.

Human Highlight Reel said:

So all these overpaid - no sack having - none penetrating D-Linemen we have now could be let go and this clears up soooooo much cap room from other upgrades.

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The cap doesn't work that way and what are the odds of finding 3 guys that are going to perform better in one off-season?--any specific suggestions? Walker and Smith got $21 mil in signing bonuses last year--let them go and what you get is an immediate $15 mil or so in dead space, i.e. eaten up cap space paid for people not even on the team. Not a realistic plan.

DB Core: Robinson, Bing/Davis, Earl, Glenn/Rogers

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Great 3 SS's in a pass happy division. Not going to work.

The problem is that nobody has ever defined the plan that I know of. All we hear is 5 years and I've even heard that was never in stone either. It basically comes from the length of Capers contract which means nothing in the modern NFL. You absolutely can not give anybody 5 years without making them definine their plan and also setting up some kind of way to measure how the plan is progressing each year. If someone has some specifics I'd like to hear em.

bckey said:

The problem is that nobody has ever defined the plan that I know of.

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Exactly how would you like them to define the plan? They have said they want to progress each year to a play-off/superbowl contending team that is not built to disintegrate in short order--i.e. trying to avoid cap issues and drafting to replace people instead of always dipping into high priced FA's. They have defined the type team they want to be--a solid 3-4 defense, control the clock, semi-run oriented team with big strike potential--for reference see Pittsburgh--that is what they want to build. Recognizing that offensive players often take longer to develop they spent much of the 1st two drafts on O and then turned to getting D playmakers last year. What exactly do you want by further for a description?--a prediction that next year they will win 10 games, be in the top 10 in O and/or D--those are targets not a plan.

bckey said:

You absolutely can not give anybody 5 years without making them definine their plan and also setting up some kind of way to measure how the plan is progressing each year. If someone has some specifics I'd like to hear em.

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Why not?

Would the fans accept anything less than Super Bowl every year?

If they set more realistic expectations like say 7-9, aren't people going to say, they were just happy to win 7 so they gave up the last game?

It is enough for me that Charlie and Dom outline the season expectations to Bob McNair. As long as he's satisfied and I don't see the team quit, I'm comfortable with letting Dom continue.

Besides, look at the evidence. Playoff teams have had remarkable continuity of coaching staffs. Non-playoff teams, not so much.
Dungy: 3 years
Shanahan: 10 years
Schottenheimer: 3 years
Edwards: 4 years
Belichick: 5 years
Cowher: 13 years
Mora Jr.: 1 year
Sherman: 5 years
Tice: 4 years
Reid: 6 years
Holmgren: 6 years
Martz: 5 years

One guy out of 12 has been with his team for at least the last 3 years.

Here's non-playoff teams for comparison:
Del Rio: 2
Capers: 3
Fisher: 8
Billick: 6
Lewis: 2
Davis/Robiskie: 3.5/.5
Mularkey: 1
Wanstadt/Bates: 4.5/.5
Vermeil: 4
Turner: 1
Erickson: 2
Green: 1
Coughlin: 1
Parcells: 2
Gibbs: 1
Smith: 1
Mariucci: 2
Gruden: 3
Fox: 3
Haslett: 5

While continuity doesn't cause success, it seems to be an important ingredient. So, unless you want to start over with a new 3 year plan.....

noxiousdog said:

While continuity doesn't cause success, it seems to be an important ingredient. So, unless you want to start over with a new 3 year plan.....

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Good post. And looking more closely at the non-playoff teams 3 of the guys with 4 or more years, Billick, Fisher and Vermeil are coming off play-off seasons.

noxiousdog said:

Why not?

Would the fans accept anything less than Super Bowl every year?

If they set more realistic expectations like say 7-9, aren't people going to say, they were just happy to win 7 so they gave up the last game?

It is enough for me that Charlie and Dom outline the season expectations to Bob McNair. As long as he's satisfied and I don't see the team quit, I'm comfortable with letting Dom continue.

Besides, look at the evidence. Playoff teams have had remarkable continuity of coaching staffs. Non-playoff teams, not so much.
Dungy: 3 years
Shanahan: 10 years
Schottenheimer: 3 years
Edwards: 4 years
Belichick: 5 years
Cowher: 13 years
Mora Jr.: 1 year
Sherman: 5 years
Tice: 4 years
Reid: 6 years
Holmgren: 6 years
Martz: 5 years

One guy out of 12 has been with his team for at least the last 3 years.

Here's non-playoff teams for comparison:
Del Rio: 2
Capers: 3
Fisher: 8
Billick: 6
Lewis: 2
Davis/Robiskie: 3.5/.5
Mularkey: 1
Wanstadt/Bates: 4.5/.5
Vermeil: 4
Turner: 1
Erickson: 2
Green: 1
Coughlin: 1
Parcells: 2
Gibbs: 1
Smith: 1
Mariucci: 2
Gruden: 3
Fox: 3
Haslett: 5

While continuity doesn't cause success, it seems to be an important ingredient. So, unless you want to start over with a new 3 year plan.....

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Excellent post. I think coaches need continuity in order to give them a chance to do what they do best, and win some football games. In the right situation a coach can come in and have instant success, but in the Texans situation Capers came in with nothing. He's started from scratch. You would have thought that Joe Gibbs would have had a good year. He had Portis to run the ball and an excellent defense, plus he is a Hall of Fame type coach. Even with all of the ingredients seemingly there, you can't always expect instant results.

infantrycak said:

Exactly how would you like them to define the plan? They have said they want to progress each year to a play-off/superbowl contending team that is not built to disintegrate in short order--i.e. trying to avoid cap issues and drafting to replace people instead of always dipping into high priced FA's. They have defined the type team they want to be--a solid 3-4 defense, control the clock, semi-run oriented team with big strike potential--for reference see Pittsburgh--that is what they want to build. Recognizing that offensive players often take longer to develop they spent much of the 1st two drafts on O and then turned to getting D playmakers last year. What exactly do you want by further for a description?--a prediction that next year they will win 10 games, be in the top 10 in O and/or D--those are targets not a plan.

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...just one little thought/question here as it relates to 'the plan'...keeping
this very simple, let's limit this to the OL. How many draft prospects have
experience in our new blocking scheme? Any? What happens if we replace
an existing line man with a free agent or draftee? Do we see immediate
positive results? Or, do we start a new learning curve that most likely
leads to similar results we had in '04? For this 'plan' to work, there have
to be positive results somewhere to at the very least begin to work on--
so, as it relates to the OL, what is Caper's plan?

rhc564 said:

How many draft prospects have
experience in our new blocking scheme? Any? What happens if we replace
an existing line man with a free agent or draftee? Do we see immediate
positive results? Or, do we start a new learning curve that most likely
leads to similar results we had in '04? For this 'plan' to work, there have
to be positive results somewhere to at the very least begin to work on--
so, as it relates to the OL, what is Caper's plan?

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Someone who watches more college ball can answer for draft prospects, but my understanding is virtually all NFL teams (including the Texans last year) mix in some zone blocking so the concept is not so unique as some believe. As for learning curves, well if you give in to chicken little syndrome and replace the majority of the OL then you can certainly expect a new learning curve. If you identify a player as a weak link, McKinney for example, and draft or trade for a replacement to work his way into the line-up a superior skill level may not result in much drop off even while they are getting accomodated. IMO the plan this year was to get pretty close to the personnel and system they want for the next few years and let them get experience and gel. While IMO improving the play of the OL is the single biggest need for next year, I don't see wholesale system or personnel changes. My suspicion is draft one C or G and get a solid but not high priced G or C through FA--depending on Spears' contract status, maybe a vet T as well.

infantrycak said:

Exactly how would you like them to define the plan? They have said they want to progress each year to a play-off/superbowl contending team that is not built to disintegrate in short order--i.e. trying to avoid cap issues and drafting to replace people instead of always dipping into high priced FA's. They have defined the type team they want to be--a solid 3-4 defense, control the clock, semi-run oriented team with big strike potential--for reference see Pittsburgh--that is what they want to build. Recognizing that offensive players often take longer to develop they spent much of the 1st two drafts on O and then turned to getting D playmakers last year. What exactly do you want by further for a description?--a prediction that next year they will win 10 games, be in the top 10 in O and/or D--those are targets not a plan.

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Boy thats original, see Pittsburgh. Like we all don't know Capers was a dc there. Actually that is what Capers should still be doing. Coaching defense. Some people just are not cut out for being head coaches and I believe Capers is one of those people. He has a track record as being a loser as a head coach. He has 46 wins and 66 losses as a head coach with 1 winning season out of 7. Only 1 out of 7 seasons was better than 7 and 9. How in the world did this guy get a reputation as knowing how to build a team?
Our team doesn't even remotely resemble Pittsburgh. Our dl is now old and disentegrating and in only 3 years. We are even getting close to cap issues.
I really can't picture Carr playing in a Pittsburgh style offense. For that matter Johnson or Davis either. Our ol sucks at pass blocking. Maybe we aren't drafting the right players for the type of team you are describing that we want to be. It doesn't take a top tier qb to run a steeler type offense. Are we going to POUND the ball with Davis? Is Andre doomed to play on a team that is rarely going to use him?
I understand that you want stability by having a coach stay for a period of years. Capers will never win a superbowl here with our current staff. He needs a staff that can be inovative and design plays built to our personels strengths. Then he needs to just hold his clipboard and keep stats and stay out of the way.
We have some really good players whose talents are not being tapped to their full potential. Find someone that can tap into that and we'll have a winner.

noxiousdog said:

Why not?

Would the fans accept anything less than Super Bowl every year?

If they set more realistic expectations like say 7-9, aren't people going to say, they were just happy to win 7 so they gave up the last game?

It is enough for me that Charlie and Dom outline the season expectations to Bob McNair. As long as he's satisfied and I don't see the team quit, I'm comfortable with letting Dom continue.

Besides, look at the evidence. Playoff teams have had remarkable continuity of coaching staffs. Non-playoff teams, not so much.
Dungy: 3 years
Shanahan: 10 years
Schottenheimer: 3 years
Edwards: 4 years
Belichick: 5 years
Cowher: 13 years
Mora Jr.: 1 year
Sherman: 5 years
Tice: 4 years
Reid: 6 years
Holmgren: 6 years
Martz: 5 years

One guy out of 12 has been with his team for at least the last 3 years.

Here's non-playoff teams for comparison:
Del Rio: 2
Capers: 3
Fisher: 8
Billick: 6
Lewis: 2
Davis/Robiskie: 3.5/.5
Mularkey: 1
Wanstadt/Bates: 4.5/.5
Vermeil: 4
Turner: 1
Erickson: 2
Green: 1
Coughlin: 1
Parcells: 2
Gibbs: 1
Smith: 1
Mariucci: 2
Gruden: 3
Fox: 3
Haslett: 5

While continuity doesn't cause success, it seems to be an important ingredient. So, unless you want to start over with a new 3 year plan.....

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I would rather do it now than wait 2 more years and do it.

bckey said:

Boy thats original, see Pittsburgh. Like we all don't know Capers was a dc there. Actually that is what Capers should still be doing. Coaching defense. Some people just are not cut out for being head coaches and I believe Capers is one of those people. He has a track record as being a loser as a head coach. He has 46 wins and 66 losses as a head coach with 1 winning season out of 7. Only 1 out of 7 seasons was better than 7 and 9. How in the world did this guy get a reputation as knowing how to build a team?
Our team doesn't even remotely resemble Pittsburgh. Our dl is now old and disentegrating and in only 3 years. We are even getting close to cap issues.
I really can't picture Carr playing in a Pittsburgh style offense. For that matter Johnson or Davis either. Our ol sucks at pass blocking. Maybe we aren't drafting the right players for the type of team you are describing that we want to be. It doesn't take a top tier qb to run a steeler type offense. Are we going to POUND the ball with Davis? Is Andre doomed to play on a team that is rarely going to use him?
I understand that you want stability by having a coach stay for a period of years. Capers will never win a superbowl here with our current staff. He needs a staff that can be inovative and design plays built to our personels strengths. Then he needs to just hold his clipboard and keep stats and stay out of the way.
We have some really good players whose talents are not being tapped to their full potential. Find someone that can tap into that and we'll have a winner.

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I have said similar things until I'm blue in the face...................

Just keep in mind Capers has coached two expansion franchises. They are not normally instant winners, and the fact that his only seasons were spent beginning them spoils the 'seasons without a winning record' statistic IMO. Our team has gotten progressively better the past three years. There is no reason to fire someone who shows progress every year.

Also, just because we're going to be running a more conservative, pound the ball offense does not mean dust will be accumulating on Carr's arm and Johnson's shoes. Ever heard of play action? You know, that thing the run sets up and the Colts have used to rack up huge yardage through the air?
We've drafted what we've felt has been the most talented person with our 1st round picks. Conservative offense or not I can't fault them for taking Andre Johnson rather than taking a less talented offensive lineman just because it fits our style of play in a more generic sense.

I don't see how you can say that a different coordinator would be seeing more success with innovative plays. That different coordinator would still be playing with our offensive line, which would give them the exact same problems. Palmer can't send in complex plays which don't have a snowball's chance in hell of developing before Carr gets sacked. Our running game showed promise again at the end of the season. If we can finally get our offensive line clicking next season, I'm almost positive we'll see a quantum leap in our passing game and a vast decrease in Palmer haters.

blockhead83 said:

Just keep in mind Capers has coached two expansion franchises. They are not normally instant winners, and the fact that his only seasons were spent beginning them spoils the 'seasons without a winning record' statistic IMO. Our team has gotten progressively better the past three years. There is no reason to fire someone who shows progress every year.

Also, just because we're going to be running a more conservative, pound the ball offense does not mean dust will be accumulating on Carr's arm and Johnson's shoes. Ever heard of play action? You know, that thing the run sets up and the Colts have used to rack up huge yardage through the air?
We've drafted what we've felt has been the most talented person with our 1st round picks. Conservative offense or not I can't fault them for taking Andre Johnson rather than taking a less talented offensive lineman just because it fits our style of play in a more generic sense.

I don't see how you can say that a different coordinator would be seeing more success with innovative plays. That different coordinator would still be playing with our offensive line, which would give them the exact same problems. Palmer can't send in complex plays which don't have a snowball's chance in hell of developing before Carr gets sacked. Our running game showed promise again at the end of the season. If we can finally get our offensive line clicking next season, I'm almost positive we'll see a quantum leap in our passing game and a vast decrease in Palmer haters.

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Three years, over 50 games, and we're still making excuses for the offense.
The OL. It's no closer to being effective going into the 4th year than it was
in the first. For those of you who survive on winning more games from one
year to the next, think about this--- losing to the Browns brought a whole
different perspective to next year. At 8-8, we would have to win next year
for the 'plan' to continue and be considered sucessful by some--we only
have to be 8-8,now, and most of you would buy another 7-9 as OL adjust-
ments are maturing into place. Capers is no dummy...time--that's what it's
all about. Cap issues,talent issues,injury issues,age issues are always going
to be a part of the equation---time will not change this. In any given year,
the teams that win will be the ones who take the cards they are dealt
and play to win. Others, will want more time as they play not to lose...
yet, by losing, do they get more time?

rhc564 said:

It's no closer to being effective going into the 4th year than it was
in the first.

Click to expand...

1st year: 3983 yds, 213 Pts, rank #32
2nd year: 4492 yds, 255 Pts, rank #28
3rd year: 5429 yds, 309 Pts, rank #21

Sorry, when I got to that line, the rest of your post lacked credibiility.

bckey said:

Boy thats original, see Pittsburgh. Like we all don't know Capers was a dc there.

Click to expand...

Oh my I have been unoriginal, shame on me. Of course it isn't original--it is the plan Capers has had in mind since he interviewed for the position. It is about what type team he wants to build and that is a team like the Steelers, Panthers (last year) or Patriots (this year)--a team that may give up yards, but not points, a team that can control the clock, i.e. run the ball, and a team with big play potential.

I really can't picture Carr playing in a Pittsburgh style offense. For that matter Johnson or Davis either. Our ol sucks at pass blocking. Maybe we aren't drafting the right players for the type of team you are describing that we want to be. It doesn't take a top tier qb to run a steeler type offense. Are we going to POUND the ball with Davis? Is Andre doomed to play on a team that is rarely going to use him?

Click to expand...

You stated there was no plan. You were wrong and now when faced with the plan want to say you don't like the plan. That's fine, but while you are criticizing the plan at least try to keep your facts somewhere near reality. This Carr and AJ are wasted if the Texans want to be a Steelers like team argument that is flying around is just another internet bandwagon with no wheels. Ooh Carr is too much of a gunslinger and too high a draft pick to have as a QB in a pound the ball offense--yeah, right--have the folks that espouse this theory noticed who the rookie of the year is?--you know, the 11th draft pick?--here is a hint, he is a strong armed mobile QB. Oh my I have to wring my hands that AJ is just wasting away never being thrown the ball, he has too much talent to be in a Steelers like offense--yeah, nevermind he is in the pro-bowl, was targetted more than all but 2 or 3 WR's this year and nevermind that the Steelers believed the way to build their system was to spend high draft picks on a QB & WR's--Plaxico Burress 1st round (8th pick), Antwan Randel El 2nd round, Hines Ward 3rd round. As for can they pound the ball with DD--maybe, maybe not--and the not will be health not skill. Did you notice his rushing totals for the last 6 games--4 100 yd games (and one just under at 95 yds) 6 rushing TD's and 1 receiving TD. And to be like the Steelers, the Texans will almost certainly draft/acquire a 2nd back to team with DD this off-season. Yeah the OL sucked at pass blocking in the 2nd half of the season but that doesn't mean they planned for it to be that way--the Texans have tried all sorts of things to make the OL work--it just hasn't gotten there yet

So you said there wasn't a plan when there was. Now you don't like the plan they have. Other than fire everyone and this plan sucks, how about suggesting alternatives--who are the available replacement coaches? What plan (or name a team the Texans should be like) would fit the personnel the Texans have? How long is it going to take for the new gunslinging offense to click (after presumably building a non-matador pass blocking OL) and how long to rebuild the Roman colliseum defense? Hopefully less than three years since that is all the chance Capers has had. Complaining without a solution has to be one of the most useless endeavors around.

Our team doesn't even remotely resemble Pittsburgh.

Click to expand...

Yeah and Pittsburgh this year doesn't even remotely resemble Pittsburgh last year. 6-10 to 15-1. And done without firing all the coaches, abandoning the plan and wholesale changing the players. Hmmmm.

I don't think anyone is giving up on Capers. Next season will tell a huge story of the organization and its take on our coaching staff, from top to bottom. Let's give Capers a chance. 4 wins 5 wins 7 wins .... could 9 or 10 be next? That would be the playoffs more than likely.

noxiousdog said:

1st year: 3983 yds, 213 Pts, rank #32
2nd year: 4492 yds, 255 Pts, rank #28
3rd year: 5429 yds, 309 Pts, rank #21

Sorry, when I got to that line, the rest of your post lacked credibiility.

Click to expand...

...thanks for echoing my post---after 3 years and facing major hurdles,
the Texans are still ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league...when will
they get to the top of the 1/3?

Yes, time is definitely something the Texans need...

rhc564 said:

...thanks for echoing my post---after 3 years and facing major hurdles,
the Texans are still ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league...when will
they get to the top of the 1/3?

Yes, time is definitely something the Texans need...

Click to expand...

Actually, that would be middle third. And quit moving the goal posts. Earlier you wanted 'significant improvement.' Now you want top third.

Who is the one without a plan again?

noxiousdog said:

Actually, that would be middle third. And quit moving the goal posts. Earlier you wanted 'significant improvement.' Now you want top third.

Who is the one without a plan again?

Click to expand...

32 divided by 3 is 10.67 times 2 equals 21.33 and the Texans are at 21---
also, if we are in the middle by less than a point, our next room for
improvement would be the top 1/3, so I really don't follow your logic
(or lack there of)

I don't see why we have to jump third's of the NFL to have it be considered improvement. We went from #28 to #21. 28 - 21 = 7. We've moved up seven spots in the rankings, that is called improvement. That's, what, like three spots away from being a third anyways? Do you understand that logic?

rhc564 said:

Three years, over 50 games, and we're still making excuses for the offense.
In any given year,
the teams that win will be the ones who take the cards they are dealt
and play to win. Others, will want more time as they play not to lose...
yet, by losing, do they get more time?

Click to expand...

Then the Colts are hiding cards under the table and accumulating them.

This year they started a rookie 5th round draft choice at right guard. Brandon Stokely at wide receiver -with only 2 years prior experience with the team. Stokely has as much experience with the Colts as any Texan has with the Texans.
and the Colts also have (experience is with the colts)
Marvin Harrison (9 years exp drafted 1st round 96)
E. James (6 years exp drafted 1st round 99)
Reggie Wayne ( 4 years exp drafted 1st round 2001)
Peyton Manning ( 7 years exp drafted 1st round 1998)
Tarik Glenn -pro bowl LT (8 years exp drafted 1st 1997)
Jeff Saturday (6 years exp signed as FA 1999 -released by Baltimore in 98)
Rick DeMulling (4 years exp drafted in round 7 2001)
Ryan Diem (4 years exp drafted in round 4 2001)

I would say the Colts took quite a bit of time to accumulate these players. The Texans plan was to accumulate their CORE group of players over four or five years. Once you have your Core group and they have been together for at least two years, then progress should grow exponentially. By year four they should compete for the payoffs but will still be inconsistent. I believe this years draft is still accumulating core players.
Have they obtained the right group of core players? That truly can not be graded for players like Pitts, Wand, and Glen Earl until the 2006 season. I think for players like Johnson and Robinson every football fan would agree they were outstanding additions to the Core. Personally, without trying to rate everyone, I include Carr, DD, Wiegert, Wade, Smith, Johnson, Robinson, Faggins and Gaffney with this group. .

Think of Players like Payne Coleman and Glenn as coaches (or dads) for the upcoming members of the core group as much as anything. Hopefully they will be able to enjoy seeing these the youngsters into maturity. i.e, they play and win for a year or two as member of the core before needing to be replaced by an up and comer. Once you have built your core a couple of nice additions each year (starter or key backup) keep you winning. The major key is not to have any bust in your major free agent acquistions or your high round draft choices.
Sometimes you are improved greatly when a not so big name free agent or low round draft choice come in and excel.

So in the first three years of existence, don't grade by the performance of the team as a whole or even won/ lost record but by the accumulation of core players. This is as much Casserly's responsibility as Capers.

Casserly, Capers, et al have had some "wins" and some "losses". Without looking back wins that come to mind are Domanick Davis (4th round and Petey Faggins(6th?round).
Losses that come to mind are Charles Hill (DL drafted in the third round who should be starting by now but never made the team) and Benny Joppru although C&C can not be held responsible for unexpected injuries (stuff happens).

Ist and 2nd round draft choices are expected to be wins so they can only be losses. I guess they would be a "win" when they become pro bowlers. Low round draft choices can only be wins as they are only marginally expected to make the team. If they start in say their second year they are a win.

I would say that two of the biggest question marks from the fans view point right now is, are Pitts and Wand "wins or losses"?. Unless you are viewing coaching film and attending practices you are not qualified to score these two just yet. While most would want to score them a lost based on the line play at the end of the year, the experience gained could improve their overall play next year.

In other words put your desire for instant graitification on hold and HAVE A GRAIN of PATIENCE.

Worst case scenario we have built enough of the core group to be competitive for several years but competitive in the NFL these days is only 8-8. We need a few more "wins" over this offseason and the next one to achieve the level the fans all desire for. If after the 2006 season we grade as having achieved the "wins" player wise and are not achieving the wins one the field then you move on to another head coach. This is a scenario in which a new head coach can come in and succeed quickly. The worse situation is if you have not achieved the "wins" player wise. Then you have to consider changing more staff - GM, Head Coach, scouts, etc. And then you are the CLEVELAND BROWNS organization of this year.

Was it the 4th year the Browns made the playoffs?