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Texans 2004 Evaluation

T

trijcomm

Guest
Obviously there were some high spots (Tennessee and Jags sweeps, KC, Chicago and Oakland wins), some reasons for encouragement (tough losses to GB and Minny) and some real, real downers (Denver, Indy and NYJ as well as Cleveland). Overall, "The Team" improved two games over last year so you have to say that "The Team" is getting better. But that Cleveland game was a real teller. I was on a high after those two road wins in Chicago and Jax. I came to Reliant Stadium on Sunday ready to whoop it up for an 8-8 season which would show we were really on the rise. But what I got instead was a rude awakening and a sober reality check. Our weaknesses were exposed by another weak team -- and if you don't think the rest of the league was taking notes, then you're kidding yourselves. This team still has some major, major obstacles to overcome. During the first year, the defense was overall a lot stronger than this year's team -- which is regression rather than improvement. The secondary has improved, but the DL can't stop the run and puts almost no pressure on the opposing QB. As for the offense, the running game has improved immensely over Shane Mack from year one. And David Carr/Andre Johnson have boosted the passing game in the past two years. But the pass protection went from absolutely horrible the first year to a slight improvement the second year back to horrible this year. Another regression. And gone are the heady days when Kris Brown was Mr. Reliable. Another regression, though slight. After watching the Browns debacle, I will never predict another win for "The Team." After all, if you can't beat a team that has nine straight losses with nothing to play for and you have them in your own house going for the first non-losing season in franchise history, then who CAN you beat with a certainty? :hairpull:
 
Good post, we're making progress, but have lost consistency. Next year we have to improve our consistency and keep making progress or else we'll be 7-9 or 8-8. I think improved play on both lines will help stabilize the team and have us be consistent every week. With good line play we can run the offense and defense we want. I hope we make good personel upgrades on both lines and that our lineman work out hard and come back w/ a chip on their shoulder for '05, they should, they were bad. Things will get going this year.
 
fresno8 said:
Good post, we're making progress, but have lost consistency. Next year we have to improve our consistency and keep making progress or else we'll be 7-9 or 8-8. I think improved play on both lines will help stabilize the team and have us be consistent every week. With good line play we can run the offense and defense we want. I hope we make good personel upgrades on both lines and that our lineman work out hard and come back w/ a chip on their shoulder for '05, they should, they were bad. Things will get going this year.
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If we finish 8-8, I'd be happy. That would at least show some more improvement. I think a winning record is still not quite within our grasp. Too much has to be done before we reach that pinnacle. Maybe in 2006.
 
trijcomm said:
If we finish 8-8, I'd be happy.
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Uh-uh. Nope. I say 9 wins or bust. 10 is too much to ask for, but would make me real happy. The season after next, I expect post-season play. No excuses.
 
yeah we had a 4-2 division record, and they do say we play in the toughest division in the NFL ! That is a big sign of improvment from 1-5 the 2 previous years !
 
I hardly think that an 8-8 record shows we are on the rise. Yes, it would look good but three wins in a row and two of those wins against sub-par teams doesn't say allot to me. The way they played from behind against K.C. and Minnesota told me all I needed to know. Those games told me that The Texans are on the rise. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro-Bowl says we are on the rise and playing two rookies on defense one of who is respected and though so highly of by other teams tells me that we are on the rise. We have allot of fight in us and we have the talent to do great things but putting it all together will come with time. Being 8-8 doesn't mean we are winners but does it mean we aren't losers? I mean we still finished thrid in our division and missed the play-offs. I don't agree with people's statements about having an 8-8 record. I think we finished strong, we had a meltdown in week 17 but overall we played well and surprised a few people along the way. Plus we still got a really high draft pick for next year, so it's looking good and honestly, unless we were going to the playoffs I wouldn't trade our 7-9 season for an 8-8 or 9-7 record.
 
hou059 said:
I hardly think that an 8-8 record shows we are on the rise. Yes, it would look good but three wins in a row and two of those wins against sub-par teams doesn't say allot to me. The way they played from behind against K.C. and Minnesota told me all I needed to know. Those games told me that The Texans are on the rise. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro-Bowl says we are on the rise and playing two rookies on defense one of who is respected and though so highly of by other teams tells me that we are on the rise. We have allot of fight in us and we have the talent to do great things but putting it all together will come with time. Being 8-8 doesn't mean we are winners but does it mean we aren't losers? I mean we still finished thrid in our division and missed the play-offs. I don't agree with people's statements about having an 8-8 record. I think we finished strong, we had a meltdown in week 17 but overall we played well and surprised a few people along the way. Plus we still got a really high draft pick for next year, so it's looking good and honestly, unless we were going to the playoffs I wouldn't trade our 7-9 season for an 8-8 or 9-7 record.
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An 8-8 record would have been a definite milestone since, bottom line, you judge a team by its wins and losses and 8-8 is a non-losing season -- a successful season for a team in just its third year. Last year "The Team" had a lot of close games as well but they only won five. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro Bowl is more of an individual reward that deals with only one facet of the game. How you can say we "finished strong" when the offense was so putrid in those last three games is beyond me. We did NOT "finish strong" and we had a lot of bad games in there (Denver, Indy, the Jets and the Browns) that were routs -- something we didn't have much of last year. And believe me, a #13 draft pick IS NOT a "really high draft pick." The 8-8 season is a HUGE difference compared to 7-9. It would have shown that we were no longer a losing franchise. Now we will need at least another year to hit that pinnacle. Yes, there was some improvement in 2004 but the fact that we couldn't finish it out and get to 8-8 drops the accomplishment down a notch or two. In the NFL, one game can mean an awful lot in judging the team. And you can also make an argument that making the playoffs is not that big an accomplishment either. After all, who cares if you make the playoffs and get bumped in the first game? Baby steps, baby steps. An 8-8 season would have been a giant step. But 7-9 is a baby step.
 
trijcomm said:
Obviously there were some high spots (Tennessee and Jags sweeps, KC, Chicago and Oakland wins), some reasons for encouragement (tough losses to GB and Minny) and some real, real downers (Denver, Indy and NYJ as well as Cleveland). Overall, "The Team" improved two games over last year so you have to say that "The Team" is getting better. But that Cleveland game was a real teller. I was on a high after those two road wins in Chicago and Jax. I came to Reliant Stadium on Sunday ready to whoop it up for an 8-8 season which would show we were really on the rise. But what I got instead was a rude awakening and a sober reality check. Our weaknesses were exposed by another weak team -- and if you don't think the rest of the league was taking notes, then you're kidding yourselves. This team still has some major, major obstacles to overcome. During the first year, the defense was overall a lot stronger than this year's team -- which is regression rather than improvement. The secondary has improved, but the DL can't stop the run and puts almost no pressure on the opposing QB. As for the offense, the running game has improved immensely over Shane Mack from year one. And David Carr/Andre Johnson have boosted the passing game in the past two years. But the pass protection went from absolutely horrible the first year to a slight improvement the second year back to horrible this year. Another regression. And gone are the heady days when Kris Brown was Mr. Reliable. Another regression, though slight. After watching the Browns debacle, I will never predict another win for "The Team." After all, if you can't beat a team that has nine straight losses with nothing to play for and you have them in your own house going for the first non-losing season in franchise history, then who CAN you beat with a certainty? :hairpull:
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good post.
The browns did have something to play for. word that I have read is that the team really likes their interim head coach and wants him to be the coach next year .. not sure if that is going to happen.

To me, this team is a teenager. we want to be treated as an adult, but aren't ready.
\
 
Wolf said:
good post.
The browns did have something to play for. word that I have read is that the team really likes their interim head coach and wants him to be the coach next year .. not sure if that is going to happen.

To me, this team is a teenager. we want to be treated as an adult, but aren't ready.
\
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I don't think anybody -- including the Browns players -- really believe that guy is going to be coach next year. He took over the team when Butch Davis left and the team proceeded to just quit -- which is even more alarming when you take into account that a team that was just mailing it in came in and beat us thoroughly. I do agree with you, though, about your teenager/adult analogy.
 
trijcomm said:
which is even more alarming when you take into account that a team that was just mailing it in came in and beat us thoroughly. I do agree with you, though, about your teenager/adult analogy.
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Maybe that had "mailing it in" as you would characterize it had something to do with their 3rd string QB playing the 4 games immediately prior to our game with them as opposed to their former starter--hmmm.
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe that had "mailing it in" as you would characterize it had something to do with their 3rd string QB playing the 4 games immediately prior to our game with them as opposed to their former starter--hmmm.
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Seeing that he threw two picks and had only one TDP while throwing for less than 250 yards, I don't believe you could say he was a huge upgrade in quality that propelled Cleveland to their success. That and the fact that he had nothing to do with those six sacks.
 
trijcomm said:
An 8-8 record would have been a definite milestone since, bottom line, you judge a team by its wins and losses and 8-8 is a non-losing season -- a successful season for a team in just its third year. Last year "The Team" had a lot of close games as well but they only won five. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro Bowl is more of an individual reward that deals with only one facet of the game. How you can say we "finished strong" when the offense was so putrid in those last three games is beyond me. We did NOT "finish strong" and we had a lot of bad games in there (Denver, Indy, the Jets and the Browns) that were routs -- something we didn't have much of last year. And believe me, a #13 draft pick IS NOT a "really high draft pick." The 8-8 season is a HUGE difference compared to 7-9. It would have shown that we were no longer a losing franchise. Now we will need at least another year to hit that pinnacle. Yes, there was some improvement in 2004 but the fact that we couldn't finish it out and get to 8-8 drops the accomplishment down a notch or two. In the NFL, one game can mean an awful lot in judging the team. And you can also make an argument that making the playoffs is not that big an accomplishment either. After all, who cares if you make the playoffs and get bumped in the first game? Baby steps, baby steps. An 8-8 season would have been a giant step. But 7-9 is a baby step.
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A milestone? 8-8 is hardly that. Who cares what people say about the Texans...you think that matters. 7-9 is an improvement from 5-11 plain and simple and look at how the Texans played this season. Swept the Jags, swept the Titans. Played the best offense in the NFC down to the wire. That says alot to me. You want to argue that The Texans didn't finish strong? As if people are going to look at the Texans and think "Hmmmm, they finished 8-8, they got my respect!" Do you respect the Vikings or the Rams? I know I don't! one game is not going to make people respect this team nor does it mean that we have arrived. how much does it matter that the Texans are 7-9, that means we are losers? In who's eyes? You act as if this sets the organization back a year...give me a break. You're telling me that there wasn't much improvement this season, your basing that on the fact the Texans didn't finish 8-8? Stop looking at the record and look at the big picture. Carr played the whole season and gained so much experience. Our defense turned it up towards the end of the season and imo made giant strides. The team won back to back games more than once this season. That's going to make for a great 2005 season. 7-9 doesn't make this team losers...losing every game, quitting on a game and playing like bush-leaguers makes a team losers. Under-achieving makes a team losers. In my eyes the Texans are winners and proved it to me this season. I guess I am just too big of a fan with all my Rah-Rah, huh? Had the Texans won that last game and ended the season 8-8 does not erase the blow-out wins you spoke of Or erase the putrid offense you mentioned? it sure doesn't, it doesn't do anything for the team other than look good on paper and give people some sort of false hope. Like finishing 8-8 means we are going to the Super Bowl next season or winning our division next season. Vikings and St. Louis finsih 8-8, talk about underachivers! :listening
 
Yeah, having a QB in that completes 67.8% of his passes vs. 49% of his passes made zero difference in the game--sure. Didn't say the only difference--said "something to do with it."
 
infantrycak said:
Yeah, having a QB in that completes 67.8% of his passes vs. 49% of his passes made zero difference in the game--sure. Didn't say the only difference--said "something to do with it."
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We're talking about the game vs. the Texans. He wasn't so great in that game, throwing only one TDP and offering up 2 INTs while throwing for less than 250 yards. And remember, 43 of his passing yards came on a play early in the game where our defensive guy blew the coverage and let the ball go right through his arms. The CB's poor play in that situation made the difference -- not Holcomb's stellar play. I hardly think he had all that much to do with the Texans collapse. True, he wasn't completely inept like Luke McCown. But Holcomb was mediocre at best.
 
hou059 said:
A milestone? 8-8 is hardly that. Who cares what people say about the Texans...you think that matters. 7-9 is an improvement from 5-11 plain and simple and look at how the Texans played this season. Swept the Jags, swept the Titans. Played the best offense in the NFC down to the wire. That says alot to me. You want to argue that The Texans didn't finish strong? As if people are going to look at the Texans and think "Hmmmm, they finished 8-8, they got my respect!" Do you respect the Vikings or the Rams? I know I don't! one game is not going to make people respect this team nor does it mean that we have arrived. how much does it matter that the Texans are 7-9, that means we are losers? In who's eyes? You act as if this sets the organization back a year...give me a break. You're telling me that there wasn't much improvement this season, your basing that on the fact the Texans didn't finish 8-8? Stop looking at the record and look at the big picture. Carr played the whole season and gained so much experience. Our defense turned it up towards the end of the season and imo made giant strides. The team won back to back games more than once this season. That's going to make for a great 2005 season. 7-9 doesn't make this team losers...losing every game, quitting on a game and playing like bush-leaguers makes a team losers. Under-achieving makes a team losers. In my eyes the Texans are winners and proved it to me this season. I guess I am just too big of a fan with all my Rah-Rah, huh? Had the Texans won that last game and ended the season 8-8 does not erase the blow-out wins you spoke of Or erase the putrid offense you mentioned? it sure doesn't, it doesn't do anything for the team other than look good on paper and give people some sort of false hope. Like finishing 8-8 means we are going to the Super Bowl next season or winning our division next season. Vikings and St. Louis finsih 8-8, talk about underachivers! :listening
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You are making some bad comparisons here. First of all, 8-8 for the Vikes or the Rams is a bad season for them. 8-8 would have been stellar and, yes, would have been a milestone for a third-year franchise. An 8-8 season indeed WOULD have given us more respect than 7-9 -- especially when a loss to one of the worst teams in the league at home prevented us from reaching that milestone. 7-9 indeed is an improvement, but it's still a losing season. 8-8 isn't -- hence it's a huge difference from 7-9. It would have been the next step to success. If we would have won that game, we would have won three in a row, accomplished a huge goal and would have given us a legitimate reason to look forward to a winning season next year. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and now we need to drop down a notch in our expectation level and hope that next year we can achieve what was within our grasp this year. And even though we did two games better than we did last year, we were thoroughly trounced and dominated by Denver, Indy, and the NYJ -- not to mention the embarrassment last week. We were never trounced this many times last year, so that's a regression. Yes, you do sound like a cheerleader to me. You gonna try out next year? Maybe these would be a good move for you to use for the judges :banana: :jumpbanan
 
trijcomm said:
You are making some bad comparisons here. First of all, 8-8 for the Vikes or the Rams is a bad season for them. 8-8 would have been stellar and, yes, would have been a milestone for a third-year franchise. An 8-8 season indeed WOULD have given us more respect than 7-9 -- especially when a loss to one of the worst teams in the league at home prevented us from reaching that milestone. 7-9 indeed is an improvement, but it's still a losing season. 8-8 isn't -- hence it's a huge difference from 7-9. It would have been the next step to success. If we would have won that game, we would have won three in a row, accomplished a huge goal and would have given us a legitimate reason to look forward to a winning season next year. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and now we need to drop down a notch in our expectation level and hope that next year we can achieve what was within our grasp this year. And even though we did two games better than we did last year, we were thoroughly trounced and dominated by Denver, Indy, and the NYJ -- not to mention the embarrassment last week. We were never trounced this many times last year, so that's a regression. Yes, you do sound like a cheerleader to me. You gonna try out next year? Maybe these would be a good move for you to use for the judges :banana: :jumpbanan
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Yeah I am going to try out. I got my outfit picked out and everything. You still trying out or are you backing out of it like last season? I hardly think we aim next season for what should have happened this season. 8-8 next season is just dumb man. Next year expectations are still high. I really understand what you are saying but don't act as if being 8-8 changes alot of things. This team really improved this season, try looking harder and not just at the record. Say the Texans were to win 10 straight and drop their final six, on paper 10-6 looks great but but how would you rank their season. There is a lot more to the Texans than their sub-par record indicates. Oh, I tried those moves last year at tryouts and they didn't work. :thud:
 
hou059 said:
Yeah I am going to try out. I got my outfit picked out and everything. You still trying out or are you backing out of it like last season? I hardly think we aim next season for what should have happened this season. 8-8 next season is just dumb man. Next year expectations are still high. I really understand what you are saying but don't act as if being 8-8 changes alot of things. This team really improved this season, try looking harder and not just at the record. Say the Texans were to win 10 straight and drop their final six, on paper 10-6 looks great but but how would you rank their season. There is a lot more to the Texans than their sub-par record indicates. Oh, I tried those moves last year at tryouts and they didn't work. :thud:
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If you are shooting higher than 8-8 next year when so many weaknesses were revealed to us by one of the worst teams in the league last Sunday, then you are shooting way, way too high. 8-8 for a third-year franchise is fantastic. 7-9 is so-so. Still a losing season. The team improved, but they didn't REALLY improve if they got blown out more than they did last year and regressed in sacks allowed. If the Texans won 10 straight and then lost their last six, then obviously they would be headed in the wrong direction -- doncha think? This year, the Texans were riding somewhat high with two road wins -- even though their offense was struggling in both games. They shut out a playoff contender on the road and were riding high. But then they were brought back to earth and a rather scary reality last week at home by a very, very poor team that was just mailing it in. BTW, I'm sorry those other moves didn't get you on the squad last year. Try this one next time around. I know it's a longer routine, but it might work. I've seen the Texans cheerleaders do this exact routine. :dance:
 
trijcomm said:
If you are shooting higher than 8-8 next year when so many weaknesses were revealed to us by one of the worst teams in the league last Sunday, then you are shooting way, way too high. 8-8 for a third-year franchise is fantastic. 7-9 is so-so. Still a losing season. The team improved, but they didn't REALLY improve if they got blown out more than they did last year and regressed in sacks allowed. If the Texans won 10 straight and then lost their last six, then obviously they would be headed in the wrong direction -- doncha think? This year, the Texans were riding somewhat high with two road wins -- even though their offense was struggling in both games. They shut out a playoff contender on the road and were riding high. But then they were brought back to earth and a rather scary reality last week at home by a very, very poor team that was just mailing it in. BTW, I'm sorry those other moves didn't get you on the squad last year. Try this one next time around. I know it's a longer routine, but it might work. I've seen the Texans cheerleaders do this exact routine. :dance:
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I just don't see it the way you do. :hairpull: How is 8-8 in the fourth year, progress? that would definetly be a regression. doncha think? Why are you focusing on how many times they were blown out? They scored more points a game than they did last year and the defense gave up fewer points this season than last year. Your saying they improved but didn't really improve. Dude it's one or the other. The Browns didn't expose anything. It was established we had problems with our O-Line and Pass Rush Defense. They just took advantage of them. Stop focusing on certain stats and look at the whole pic man.
 
trijcomm said:
The team improved, but they didn't REALLY improve if they got blown out more than they did last year
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Not singling you out here, but this is a statement which has been made by several people and doesn't quite add up:

2003
New Orleans 31-10
Kansas City 42-14
Tennessee 38-17
Jaxonville 27-0
Tampa Bay 16-3

2004
Denver 31-13
Indy 49-14
Jets 29-7

Don't see how that adds up to getting blown out more.
 
With a given level of talent a team's record can be expected to be within a certain range, +- a win or two during a given season. In retrospect, this team could have finished anywhere in the 6-9 win range with the talent they have based on how the ball bounced in some of their games. That's why a win over Cleveland on Sunday wouldn't have proven that the team was markedly better with 8 wins than they are with 7. Obviously they would have had a better record but this team is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) that the next level is wild card regardless of how many wins that takes.
 
hou059 said:
I hardly think that an 8-8 record shows we are on the rise. Yes, it would look good but three wins in a row and two of those wins against sub-par teams doesn't say allot to me. The way they played from behind against K.C. and Minnesota told me all I needed to know. Those games told me that The Texans are on the rise. Sending Andre Johnson to the Pro-Bowl says we are on the rise and playing two rookies on defense one of who is respected and though so highly of by other teams tells me that we are on the rise. We have allot of fight in us and we have the talent to do great things but putting it all together will come with time. Being 8-8 doesn't mean we are winners but does it mean we aren't losers? I mean we still finished thrid in our division and missed the play-offs. I don't agree with people's statements about having an 8-8 record. I think we finished strong, we had a meltdown in week 17 but overall we played well and surprised a few people along the way. Plus we still got a really high draft pick for next year, so it's looking good and honestly, unless we were going to the playoffs I wouldn't trade our 7-9 season for an 8-8 or 9-7 record.
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TESTIFY BROTHER! :sbad:
 
trijcomm said:
If the Texans won 10 straight and then lost their last six, then obviously they would be headed in the wrong direction -- doncha think?
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No. The Chargers started hot last year and totally collapsed. They are a playoff team this year.

Right now I think my expectations for next year are 9-7 plus or minus one game either way. This may change...but I doubt it.
 
aj. said:
With a given level of talent a team's record can be expected to be within a certain range, +- a win or two during a given season. In retrospect, this team could have finished anywhere in the 6-9 win range with the talent they have based on how the ball bounced in some of their games. That's why a win over Cleveland on Sunday wouldn't have proven that the team was markedly better with 8 wins than they are with 7. Obviously they would have had a better record but this team is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) that the next level is wild card regardless of how many wins that takes.
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I must disagree. One game means a heckuva lot in the NFL -- after all, it's meant the difference between a trip to the Super Bowl and staying at home for the Eagles on several occasions now and the difference between simply being a contender and actually achieving something. That's what makes the 8-8 record a magic pinnacle for the Texans. 8-8 would mean that the Texans were no longer losers -- especially when a win would have made them going out on a three-game winning streak, despite the obvious weaknesses they have. But the game against Cleveland magnified their weaknesses and was much more than "just another game." And as far as saying this team "is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) " ... uh, sorry. They had seven, not eight. Heck, I remember last year folks saying "The Team" could have been 9-7 if things would have shaken out a bit better for them. Yeah, but they forgot to say that the games the Texans won were all close and they very well could have finished 0-16 as well. "The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8. If that's accomplished, 2006 should be the year for a winning record. It isn't fair to expect this team with so many weaknesses to contend for a playoff spot next year in just their fourth year of existence when they still have so much work to do -- which the Browns so generously pointed out to us last week. That expectation level is way, way too high -- especially in light of what happened last week. It would be folly to dismiss that as "just another game" as doing so would lull you into false expectations that in all probabitly will not be met.
 
We'll agree to disagree then. With another solid draft and another year of free agency, I think they are already at the point where wild card (I'm thinking 9-7 when I say that) is their next step in the growth chart.....not based so much on what the Browns game did or didn't mean, I'm looking back at the entire body of work this season. They are what they are. A 7-9 team and it's not unreasonable to expect a 9-7 record next year, especially when you see other teams like Buffalo, the Jets, Jax, San Diego, and Atlanta doing it from one season to the next.
 
trijcomm said:
"The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8.
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Yeah, I am sure that is what the Chargers coaching staff told themselves last year. 4-12 to 12-4. And don't even try the "they didn't have as many soft spots" argument--after all their off-season moves people still expected them to be doormats--questionable QB just filling time for the rookie, very poor D going to a new system, completely revamped OL. Yeah, the Texans should shoot for 8-8. Is it reasonable to predict 12-4, most likely not, but shooting for 8-8 is even more unreasonable.
 
aj. said:
We'll agree to disagree then.
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Just don't get too disappointed when your expectations aren't meant. It's important that we not make unrealistic demands on a fourth-year team. How we can be talking playoffs nest year after last Sunday is way, way beyond me. :confused:
 
gotta be realistic. i havent done any conclusive reasearch on the matter but i would estimate our opponent win percentage was upwards of .700 our losses were comprised mostly of teams like Indy, NY, denver, minnesota(with healthy moss) Green Bay, San diego these are all teams that could do a little damage in the playoffs. we gave Indy their best game of the late season, we had a winnable game against san diego.....we were close as hell against GB and Minnesota. Now i know we had a complete let down game against cleveland, but waht this tells me is taht our team is not Talented enough to cruise and win against ANY team, so in order for us to do things like play with Indy, sweep JAX and Tennessee we had to play with a hell of a lot of heart because there are a lot of holes on this team. in my opinion the browns game showed that we overachieved against probably the toughest schedule in the league. like everyone else i was so amped for an 8-8 season, but in a way the browns game showed us a little. that we are still a fledgling team doing all the right things thus far. i like the base we have going right now. lets sign some f'ing o linemen, draft a stud WR...the defense is improving steadily on its own keep them off the field with a clock eating offese with two badass recievers and QB protection we'll win a lot more than 7 games
 
trijcomm said:
Just don't get too disappointed when your expectations aren't meant. It's important that we not make unrealistic demands on a fourth-year team. How we can be talking playoffs nest year after last Sunday is way, way beyond me. :confused:
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My expectations this season were 8-8/7-9. They pretty much nailed it. Next year they will be in the 9-7 area. I've been one of the biggest critics of unrealistic expectations over the last three seasons so I get that.

How we can be talking about playoffs after Sunday? Look at Sunday as 1/16 of the total body of work that's how. And look at the 7-9 record.

But anything can happen. A few key injuries here or there and we could have another 7 win season - or worse. Like Casserly said this morning, next season they start all over at zero wins again so it's not like 7 wins is automatic - but the general trend I see leads me to believe that they are within striking distance now of 9-7 and a possible wild card.
 
trijcomm said:
I must disagree. One game means a heckuva lot in the NFL -- after all, it's meant the difference between a trip to the Super Bowl and staying at home for the Eagles on several occasions now and the difference between simply being a contender and actually achieving something. That's what makes the 8-8 record a magic pinnacle for the Texans. 8-8 would mean that the Texans were no longer losers -- especially when a win would have made them going out on a three-game winning streak, despite the obvious weaknesses they have. But the game against Cleveland magnified their weaknesses and was much more than "just another game." And as far as saying this team "is now at the point (with 7 or 8 wins this year) " ... uh, sorry. They had seven, not eight. Heck, I remember last year folks saying "The Team" could have been 9-7 if things would have shaken out a bit better for them. Yeah, but they forgot to say that the games the Texans won were all close and they very well could have finished 0-16 as well. "The Team" is still a couple of steps away from wildcard level -- they have too many soft spots that can't be solved in just one off-season. Next year "The Team" should shoot for that elusive 8-8. If that's accomplished, 2006 should be the year for a winning record. It isn't fair to expect this team with so many weaknesses to contend for a playoff spot next year in just their fourth year of existence when they still have so much work to do -- which the Browns so generously pointed out to us last week. That expectation level is way, way too high -- especially in light of what happened last week. It would be folly to dismiss that as "just another game" as doing so would lull you into false expectations that in all probabitly will not be met.
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Alright, you have made your point. In your opinion, a two game improvement is regression because we didn't finish 8-8...and in my opinion I am saying anything less than a play-off berth in year four is a regression becasue that's the plan all all along. Five year plan- is to make strides every year and be a Super Bowl Contender by year five. Based on the talent The Texans have and the improvements they will make this off-season, they should be in the playy-off hunt to the very end next year. 8-8 gets no respect in the AFC, hell, 10-6 gets no respect in the AFC. Bottom line is the Texans won't be respected until they make the play-offs and start to play with more consistancy...all in due time!
 
hou059 said:
Alright, you have made your point. In your opinion, a two game improvement is regression because we didn't finish 8-8...and in my opinion I am saying anything less than a play-off berth in year four is a regression becasue that's the plan all all along. Five year plan- is to make strides every year and be a Super Bowl Contender by year five. Based on the talent The Texans have and the improvements they will make this off-season, they should be in the playy-off hunt to the very end next year. 8-8 gets no respect in the AFC, hell, 10-6 gets no respect in the AFC. Bottom line is the Texans won't be respected until they make the play-offs and start to play with more consistancy...all in due time!
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Wait a minute! I never said a two-game improvement is regression! I've said many times that it is obviously an improvement. It's the most wins "The Team" ever got! But it still fell short of that magic non-loser record. An 8-8 record in year four would hardly be regression since that would be an improvement. Expecting a team to make the playoffs in just their fourth year in existence when they have never reached the .500 mark is not only unrealistic -- it's not fair. Chances are they won't reach that mark and you will be unjustly upset. 8-8 DOES get respect if you are a fourth-year franchise. I will agree they must get consistent or they won't even hit .500 next year. After all, since it's been made plain to the league that "The Team" can't even effectively block four guys with six or seven, what's "The Team" gonna do when they start blitzing on a more regular basis?
 
trijcomm.....with your theory, saying the Texans would have gotten a 10-6 season and just missed the playoffs......much like the Dolphins last year and how they just missed the playoffs having a "fantastic" season in your eyes....seeing as how your classify a team according to their record. This year the Dolphins were "putrid" for the most part of the season, were they not? Those Dolphins fans could have chanted, "We're not losers", or you can evern bring the Benglas into the equation as well. They had an 8-8 season and finally were getting a MNF game, their first in 15 yrs. Their season didn't turn out so well. What good would it do us to get an 8-8 season, be called winners, but next season our record comes up even shorter from 8-8 than it did this year.

As hou59 said, "look at the big picture". An 8-8 record isn't going to do anything for us....time, experience, player progression....things that a record like 7-9 ("loser") cannot ential, will! This team has improved in several areas. Sure they weren't consistent but they have met goals the team has been wanting to achieve. There are many more but several were achieved this season. Sure we stumbled some games but damnit....that doesn't take away the fact that this team is growing. One win difference from 8-8 really doesn't make a difference in this case.

If the team would be regressing itself to only meeting the goal they had set this year of making 8-8 to making 8-8 next season.....then that would be the Texans and the coaching staff just settling for that record cause in my eyes....I think they can do a lot better. Even if they did only win 2 games more this year than last....I saw the Texans do a lot of improvement. Who knows.....maybe next year we beat Indy, might even sweep them but don't sweep the Titans and Jags...........would that be an improvement to you? It would to me. Sure we didn't sweep the Titans and Jags again this '05 season and that might be a "regression" to you, but us finally beating the Colts is another improvement, "milestone", or what have you.

I've held conversations with others from different cities and my friend.......the Texans are known as warriors believe it or not.
 
If a wacked out Browns organization can go 9-7 and make the wild card in their 4th year, then there's no reason for the Texans or Texans fans to set lesser goals - especially given their 7-9 record this season and steady improvement since year one.
 
SBTexans08 said:
trijcomm.....with your theory, saying the Texans would have gotten a 10-6 season and just missed the playoffs......much like the Dolphins last year and how they just missed the playoffs having a "fantastic" season in your eyes....seeing as how your classify a team according to their record. This year the Dolphins were "putrid" for the most part of the season did they not. Those Dolphins fans could have chanted, "We're not losers", or you can evern bring the Benglas into the equation as well. They had an 8-8 season and finally were getting a MNF game, their first in 15 yrs. Their season didn't turn out so well. What good would it do us to get an 8-8 season, be called winners, but next season our record comes up even shorter from 8-8 than it did this year.

As hou59 said, "look at the big picture". An 8-8 record isn't going to do anything for us....time, experience, player progression....things that a record like 7-9 ("loser") cannot ential, will! This team has improved in several areas. Sure they weren't consitent but they have met goals the team has been wanting to achieve. There are many more but several were achieved this season. Sure we stumbled some games but damnit....that doesn't take away the fact that this team is growing. One win difference from 8-8 really doesn't make a difference in this case.

If the team would be regressing itself to only meeting the goal they had set this year of making 8-8 to making 8-8 next season.....then that would be the Texans and the coaching staff just settling for that record cause in my eyes....I think they can do a lot better. Even if they did only win 2 games more this year than last....I saw the Texans do a lot of improvement. Who knows.....maybe next year we beat Indy, might even sweep them but don't sweep the Titans and Jags...........would that be an improvement to you? It would to me. Sure we didn't sweep the Titans and Jags again this '05 season and that might be a "regression" to you, but us finally beating the Colts is another improvement, "milestone", or what have you.

I've held conversations with others from different cities and my friend.......the Texans are known as warriors believe it or not.
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If the Texans went 10-6 this year, it would have been a fantastic season -- playoffs or no! You compare "The Team" to the Dolphins and Bengals but those comparisons fail when you are talking about a team that's just three years old. Like I said, a 7-9 record shows improvement but an 8-8 record shows much more improvement. Yes, it's just one game, but the fact that "The Team" hit that magic non-loser mark is indeed more of an accomplishment. It shows we didn't lose more games than we won. One game in this case makes a HUGE difference -- especially when that game crystalized the many weaknesses "The Team" still must deal with. You seem to believe "The Team" accomplished a lot more than they actually did this year. This is dangerous because it could mean you are expecting more from "The Team" than you should be. They still have one step more to achieve before being considered a contender. That one loss to Cleveland did really set them back possibly a whole year because it magnified "The Team's" weaknesses and proved that we couldn't assume we could "get by" without addressing them this coming season.
 
trijcomm said:
If the Texans went 10-6 this year, it would have been a fantastic season -- playoffs or no! You compare "The Team" to the Dolphins and Bengals but those comparisons fail when you are talking about a team that's just three years old. Like I said, a 7-9 record shows improvement but an 8-8 record shows much more improvement. Yes, it's just one game, but the fact that "The Team" hit that magic non-loser mark is indeed more of an accomplishment. It shows we didn't lose more games than we won. One game in this case makes a HUGE difference -- especially when that game crystalized the many weaknesses "The Team" still must deal with. You seem to believe "The Team" accomplished a lot more than they actually did this year. This is dangerous because it could mean you are expecting more from "The Team" than you should be. They still have one step more to achieve before being considered a contender. That one loss to Cleveland did really set them back possibly a whole year because it magnified "The Team's" weaknesses and proved that we couldn't assume we could "get by" without addressing them this coming season.
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and you seem to believe that "the team" didn't accomplish much! That's your view on the matter and I respect it but stop saying the Browns exposed weakneses...they didn't do anything different than any other team we have played this year. The Browns magnified weakneses? Why, because they are the worst team in the AFC? They are still a pro team, it's not like their roster is filled with highschool kids and college rejects. They do have talented people on that team, they just aren't a good "team". But anywho, lets take a vote, everyone please respond to this. Before the Browns game, who here didn't realize the Texans had problems protecting the QB and rushing the passer...
 
A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected since they went 7-9 this season.
 
SBTexans08 said:
A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected just because they went 7-9 this season.
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Damn...dat boi REAL! :monkey:
 
SBTexans08 said:
A loss to an inferior team does not magnify anything. Didn't the Super Bowl Champs lose to the Dolphins? Didn't we hold our own against good defenses and slip with bad defenses. The Texans O-line did great against the Jags Defense and I bet you were chanting the night away after that......but then you were brough back down to earth after this past Sunday's performance. The Texans are aiming at making it to the Super Bowl my friend. Every team is, no matter how bad the team might be. The Panthers are a great example of that. In just two season they went from 1-15 to NFC Champs.

Every year it's every team in a quest to be the best.........not reach a certain record and that's all. No sir, it's Super Bowl where the destination is......not 8-8. At the very least the Texans would want to break the .500 mark but that should not be their goal just beecause Super Bowl is too much to be expected since they went 7-9 this season.
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As I have said on many occasions, the Pats/Dolphins game cannot be compared to the Browns/Texans game, seeing that the Dolphins were playing at home against hated division rivals and were losing the game most of the way until they came back at the end. None of this was true in the Cleveland game And I wouldn't say the offensive line "did great" against the Jax D -- the offense didn't perform all that well vs. Jax nor did they perform well against Chicago. The destination for this team next year is NOT the Super Bowl -- I think all rational people understand that. I don't expect it and if you expect it, then you will be radically disappointed. Rather, the goal is, and always has been, slow, steady progression. Capers made that clear when he first came in. The next step is .500 -- not the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Hope that doesn't disappoint you.
 
trijcomm said:
Rather, the goal is, and always has been, slow, steady progression. Capers made that clear when he first came in. The next step is .500 -- not the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Hope that doesn't disappoint you.
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If you think Capers or the players think the next step is .500 you have fallen off your stool and need to call a taxi to the internet bar.
 
hou059 said:
and you seem to believe that "the team" didn't accomplish much! That's your view on the matter and I respect it but stop saying the Browns exposed weakneses...they didn't do anything different than any other team we have played this year. The Browns magnified weakneses? Why, because they are the worst team in the AFC? They are still a pro team, it's not like their roster is filled with highschool kids and college rejects. They do have talented people on that team, they just aren't a good "team". But anywho, lets take a vote, everyone please respond to this. Before the Browns game, who here didn't realize the Texans had problems protecting the QB and rushing the passer...
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No, the Browns as a weak team did much, much more to expose the weaknesses of "The Team" than anyone else did. The Browns were a weak, weak team and beat us from the opening kickoff to the failed onside kick and in the process sacked us six times when they only had 26 sacks in their previous 15 games. They had a nine-game losing streak and were so bad that Jim Rome said they shouldn't even be paid since they weren't even trying and were just mailing it in. It's one thing for Indy to come in here and beat us like the Browns did. After all, they are better than us and that would have been a logical explanation. But for a poor, poor team like the Browns to come in to our own crypt and whip us like they did shows that we simply weren't as good as we thought we were. The fact is, before the Browns game we thought we could "get by" without great pass protection and not pressuring the opposing QB. After all, we beat Chicago on the road pretty soundly and shut out a playoff contender the next week despite those weaknesses. But the Cleveland game brought us back to reality and we realized that we can't reach the next level (.500) without addressing these questions.
 
The Browns are an NFL team. There are no off-weeks in the NFL. Using your logic we should have never won one game our first year and every team we beat the first two years should have been rebuilt or their own franchise growth stunted since we were one of the worst teams in the NFL then.
 
Vinny said:
The Browns are an NFL team. There are no off-weeks in the NFL. Using your logic we should have never won one game our first year and every team we beat the first two years should have been rebuilt or their own franchise growth stunted since we were one of the worst teams in the NFL then.
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The Browns are a poor, poor NFL team that came here with a nine-game losing streak and were mailing it. They had given it up to such an extent that one commentator asked if there was ever a case where the interim head coach was fired before the season ended. That team was so poor in fact that some were even questioning if they should be paid since they weren't even trying. It was this team that came in here and trounced the Texans. To downplay this loss would be folly.
 
The Browns started 3-3 and have NFL talent. Any team can beat any other team in the NFL. There are no Rice Universities or Vanderbilts in the NFL despite what you think. The team mailing it in on the last week of the season was the Texans. Perhaps you didn't watch that game.
 
trijcomm said:
The Browns are a poor, poor NFL team that came here with a nine-game losing streak and were mailing it. They had given it up to such an extent that one commentator asked if there was ever a case where the interim head coach was fired before the season ended. That team was so poor in fact that some were even questioning if they should be paid since they weren't even trying. It was this team that came in here and trounced the Texans. To downplay this loss would be folly.
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Man your folly! Geeze, that team was so poor it beat Baltimore in the first game. Your in a little shell man, get out of it! If you don't beleive that any team can beat any team on any given Sunday then what are you doing watching the sport. Were they mailing it in? Really? Then why did they beat the Texans? Why? Could it be that they were just the better team that day? Did Terry Robyski call and say to you "hey, we are mailing it in?" Please shed some light on this cause no team mails it in. Every team plays the game and try's to win.
 
trijcomm said:
Rather, the goal is, and always has been, slow, steady progression. Capers made that clear when he first came in. The next step is .500 -- not the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Hope that doesn't disappoint you.
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lmao.gif
Boy I would love to hear you comment that to Mr. Dom Capers on the Dom Capers Show on 610 radio. He'd drop the phone and do that little number in the beginning of my post....

The Texans will take the 7-9 season with all the progression they did make even if they didn't make the playoffs but that doesn't mean they weren't setting their eyes on division champs/AFC champs/SB champs! In that case why try to rally the group when they were down 21-0 in the first 40 minutes of play against the Vikings to tie and take the win? Why'd they do it and succeed when they went against the Titans after going into half-time down by 21-0? Why try to take the nail biting win against the Chiefs in one of the most hostile home crowds in the league at their place? Why practice if they're not trying to win against good teams with the intent at shattering their hopes to the same destination?

I can see the team now praciticing only for the winnable games cause all they want to do is go 8-8.....lol. They go in there trying to win every single one, trying to make 16-0 if possible. Sure that isn't easily achievable but every game they go in with a "lets win" plan. Not a "we really don't need this win since we're trying to make 8-8, after all it is our next step and we already have 6 wins with 8 games to go" plan. Are you insane?
 
SBTexans08 said:
lmao.gif
Boy I would love to hear you comment that to Mr. Dom Capers on the Dom Capers Show on 610 radio. He'd drop the phone and do that little number in the beginning of my post....

The Texans will take the 7-9 season with all the progression they did make even if they didn't make the playoffs but that doesn't mean they weren't setting their eyes on division champs/AFC champs/SB champs! In that case why try to rally the group when they were down 21-0 in the first 40 minutes of play against the Vikings to tie and take the win? Why'd they do it and succeed when they went against the Titans after going into half-time down by 21-0? Why try to take the nail biting win against the Chiefs in one of the most hostile home crowds in the league at their place? Why practice if they're not trying to win against good teams with the intent at shattering their hopes to the same destination?

I can see the team now praciticing only for the winnable games cause all they want to do is go 8-8.....lol. They go in there trying to win every single one, trying to make 16-0 if possible. Sure that isn't easily achievable but every game they go in with a "lets win" plan. Not a "we really don't need this win since we're trying to make 8-8, after all it is our next step and we already have 6 wins with 8 games to go" plan. Are you insane?
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Um, you must be insane if you ever thought I said the team wasn't trying to achieve as much as they possibly could. But I'm sure their goal and expectation was NOT to win the Super Bowl this year. If you believe it was, then you are living in fantasy land. I never head one player come out this year with the statement, "We're a Super Bowl contender this year!" Nor did I hear any of them declare, "I think we can win the divisional title!" Did you hear that? And I'm sure Capers said something like, "Well, we try to win every game and try to go to the Super Bowl. But realistically are goals are ..."
 
infantrycak said:
If you think Capers or the players think the next step is .500 you have fallen off your stool and need to call a taxi to the internet bar.
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I agree with YOU !!! and what do you think trijcomm that if we're 8-4 that we are just gonna give up ? Get Real they play every year and try to achieve the big goal of bringing a championship to Houston !
 
Um, I think Trijcomm is saying that the team wasn't trying to achieve as much as they possibly could. :um:

I think he also said that a 2 game improvement is actually regression and something about wanting to make the cheerleading squad. :heh:
 
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