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Seth Payne

AndreJ

AndreJ

Rookie
Anyone know the specifics on his injury? If its serious, i think that would make the decision of resigning him alot easier. And we could get an early start seeing who would be back next year.
 
The only thing I keep hearing is "injured his leg" with an emphasis on it not being a knee injury. That's all I've heard so far.
 
Bottle-O-Bud said:
we should not resign our BEST D-lineman. Did you see the drop in pressure when Payne went out? Payne gets injured cause he plays hard.... Cant say that bout Walker or smith.
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well said We NEED Seth back
 
When Smith was signed they said he was better at stopping the run than rushing the passer.Walker I don't know what happen to him.
 
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.
 
Grid said:
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.
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I think Walker is a has been and its time for him to hang it up. I think he had all of about .5 sacks this season and that really didn't help. It suprises me that hes the one week after week to complain to the press, but he doesn't make any plays. I would love to trade him and get him out of here, he doesn't seem happy anyway. He's just looking for a SB.
 
Payne doesn't do us any good when he's on the sideline nursing an injury. He may be be our best lineman when he plays but you would be way overpaying with his consistant lack of playing time. We will draft a DL and MLB this year.
 
Grid said:
Payne is a good lineman.. but unless he is cheap i dont know that we can afford him.. not with the Smith and Walker contracts.
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Define cheap? I believe in 2003 he was $4 mill Cap compared to Walkers $6 mill Cap. I would say he was getting Coleman money while Walker was getting Glenn money. I have no difficulty with giving a healthy Payne the kind of money you give Coleman, McKinney, Smith, Wade, Weigert, etc ...

I think he's proven that his surgically repaired knee can hold up. It just did for the whole season. Assuming his injury on Sunday is a routine injury to his other leg, the same kind of injury that any D-linemen could have, then I have no difficulty signing him for a reasonable amount.

There is no guarantee that recently drafted D-linemen will play great or that they won't get injured.
 
Capers said on his radio show that Payne tore his hamstring, and will probably need surgery.
 
Marcus said:
Capers said on his radio show that Payne tore his hamstring, and will probably need surgery.
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Yeah i think thats right but its not on the same leg that he injured the year before. I'm real curious to see whether they will keep him or not. Im guessing after the SB, but does anyone know when teams start announcing the trades and FA acquisitions.
 
the wonger need food said:
Yikes... I feel for the guy. I guess the good news is that we can get him on the cheap next year.
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If there is a next year...the damage is apparently on the same leg as last year's ACL.
Talk about a bad break...and more rehab.
 
AndreJ said:
I'm real curious to see whether they will keep him or not. Im guessing after the SB, but does anyone know when teams start announcing the trades and FA acquisitions.
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I think we need to let him go. He is injury prone. The only way we keep him is if he's not a big cost for us. I'm not exactly sure on the dates, but know it's after the SB.
 
I think we should take the money we were going to invest in him, and give it to someone who is a little bit better of a 2 gap defender, even a stopgap older player who can hold the fort until a draft pick develops (Halatoi Nagata)
 
I think we should take the money we were going to invest in him, and give it to someone who is a little bit better of a 2 gap defender, even a stopgap older player who can hold the fort until a draft pick develops (Halatoi Nagata)
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care to name someone who is better?? :hmmm:

Payne IS the Defense. If he is out then there is a noticable drop in the entire defense. When he is in he is always around the ball and making a play. Payne commands the double team that a 3-4 defense scheme must have at Nose Tackle.

Anyone that thinks that Payne is 'plug and play' replaceable simply hasn't been paying attention to the Defensive line play.

I don't know if the injury is the end of his career or not, but I know if we don't find a NT at LEAST as good as he is we are going to be in ALOT of trouble defensively next year.
 
thegr8fan said:
care to name someone who is better?? :hmmm:

Payne IS the Defense. If he is out then there is a noticable drop in the entire defense. When he is in he is always around the ball and making a play. Payne commands the double team that a 3-4 defense scheme must have at Nose Tackle.

Anyone that thinks that Payne is 'plug and play' replaceable simply hasn't been paying attention to the Defensive line play.

I don't know if the injury is the end of his career or not, but I know if we don't find a NT at LEAST as good as he is we are going to be in ALOT of trouble defensively next year.
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Agreed. The Texans are simply not the same team without him full strength. BUT... we can't afford to pay him just to wait around for him to get back to 100% (I believe he still wasnt there yet) and for who knows how long.
 
i don't believe we should sign him back, he hasn't really shown me much, but INJURIES, if you define his career here in houston you can't say by his pass rush or by his sacks but by what injuries and how long he's been out, IMO he's not worth more then 3 million a year
 
Between Seth Payne and Bennie Joppru, I don't know what to say other than
the old bromide about life being unfair. You know if Seth would have had the "good fortune" to catch a flu bug this past week and not play Sunday,
he'd have gone into the offseason, signed a new contract as a FA with us or some other org, and come back better than ever next year after a full off season of conditioning.
 
DR#1 said:
i don't believe we should sign him back, he hasn't really shown me much, but INJURIES, if you define his career here in houston you can't say by his pass rush or by his sacks but by what injuries and how long he's been out, IMO he's not worth more then 3 million a year
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In the 3-4 it is the lineman's job to tie up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to make the play's. Linemen in the 3-4 are not going to have big stats.
 
Tough break for Seth. Good guy and a very good player. However, given last years injury and now more surgury to repair a hamstring, that is going to cost him BIG time. I suspect we will make him an offer, but it will be at a rate we could afford for a backup level player (1 mill.??). IMO, we just can't commit large dollars at this point on him. I think we bought a "pig in a poke" with Walker and we need to avoid doing it again. The problem is, is there a player in the draft that we could select and have a reasonable expectation they would be successfull next year. Probably not, but it is easier for d-line talent, and that means we need to look at FA. IMO, we will need to be MUCH more active in FA that Charley indicated with his "A few cheap guys" comment. If we don't, we can't improve the o-line or d-line now with Seths problem, fast enough to meet next years schedule. We still will need to draft the talent to be ready in 1-2 years to start. Frankly, I think we are in a bit of a hard spot to get it all done and to still be solid and competative next year.
 
I think Roderique Wright, Marcus Spears, Hlatoi Ngata(sp?), Derrick Johnson, and Ahmad Brooks.. are 4 players that we could be looking at in the first round, who you could reasonably expect to come in and make a difference their first year.
 
Payne as good as he has done, is not worth resigning. Unless he takes a 1 year deal at the minimum or very close to it, with him having a second injury to his left leg, and having surgery, him being 30 years old, and the fact that he might be a little undersized to play the NT in the 3-4 all contribute to the fact that he continues to get injured.

I'd like to see us take Haloti Ngata from Oregon. 6'5 338lbs 4.85 40... 485 bench... 585 squat...

The perfect nose tackle, would consume double team even if he were thrown to the ground.

Right now is projected as a second round pick, but i think he will steadily creep his way up in the draft, especially after his interviews and work outs. Is reportedly a very intelligent man. If we have to take him in the first round cause he climbs that high on the boards, then so be it. If he have to trade down to the later first round for him, thats fine.
 
I tend to agree that we need to be carefull about signing Seth. At this point I would only consider him in a backup role at low dollars, probably about a Mill. I doubt he would take it though, but who knows, no one else may offer better.
 
I feel bad for Payne, his first year here he was all we could have asked for and then some; but it's probally time to consider cutting him lose. It's always sad when a players career is shortened due to injuries.

Sign him only for low dollars with incentives.
 
already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.
 
I agree with all of you guys. IMO we should concentrate on the O line and D line in the draft and free agency. Our D line is getting old except for Smith and our O line needs help bad.
 
I would love to see Payne back if we could sign him for about 3.0 million a year. A 3 year $8.75 million contract with playing incentives would be good in my book. Thing is you have to look at a couple of NT that are avail in free agency. Pat Williams of the Bills and Chris Hovan of the Vikings. Pat Williams would be an excellen FA acquisitiion for us and we could redsign Payne at a reduced rate and hand him is walking papers. We could then draft a decent NT to groom. Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor. Fangio and company could work on his technique and we could still draft a decent NT if he doesn't pan out. Deloach could still be factor in all this, depends on what he is asking.
 
Overated maybe, but he may have lost his focus. Maybe a new place will give him that. You also have to look at how much he is worth and what he is asking. A lot of people on these boards said Grady Jackson, Sam Adams, and Ted Washington were not worth it to us, but they are still put it to poeple.
 
I think we could have him for 1 more year, as I really don't know if we could get someone better than him. Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good...
 
I dont see Payne coming back. I think the cards just fell wrong for him. Last game as a signed player, and he tears something. Talk about tough luck.

Look for a FA NT, or a hight draft pick NT. Payne might be back if he takes a huge cut, and we can be sure he will be able to play ball next year.
 
phan1 said:
Rookie NT in our 3-4 D doesn't sound really good...
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It's not as bad as you would think. Casy Hampton stood behind for a bit but eventually learned the system and played his way into the starting spot for the Steelers. Same thing should be done here if we draft a rookie NT
 
So was Seth Payne before he was moved to NT. Hovan is more of a 2-gap guy in that he likes to bull people over with his strength ranther than using his hands to finesse his way around guys.
 
yes we need to draft a NT, and i know some dont agree with that, but look at D.Rob and Babin this year, some rooks pick up things faster than others, so we need to get a young guy, that will help us for years !
 
I honestly don't see finding an upgrade over Payne as a prority I think if we get some speed on the outside that will help everything. How about USC Coady with the #1 pick or trading down to pick him up later
 
Grid said:
already said this in a number of posts.. but if Ngata's knee checks out fine.. I think he is the best 3-4 DT in the draft. if we can get him, he would be a great pickup.
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The knee shouldn't be an issue. No problems this past saeson and he's quoted as saying the repaired knee is stronger than the other.

Being doubled and tripled teamed all season, he ended up with 46 tackles, 8.5 tackles-for-loss, 3.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles & 2 blocked kicks.

If he comes out, I don't see him slipping to the second round.
 
SESupergenius said:
Chris Hovan I know has lost his luster in Minneasota but somehow I feel he would make an excellent NT. The guy just has a high motor.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major knock on Hovan that he can be high motor on pass rushing but doesn't have discipline for run stopping? Doesn't sound like a NT in that regard.
 
I think 13 will be too high to take Ngata. He's not going to move that up the draft board. I won't be surprised if they make a trade similar to last year's if they think they can get 2 starting 1st day players. They have an extra 3rd to play with. Thank you, Dallas.
 
"Of course the injury is a concern when heading into free agency. ... It's hard not to think about it, but I've always tried to make it a point to play primarily for the love of the game and look at the money as an added benefit. I just want to get the surgery done and get on with the rehab process."

The above comment from Payne was taken out of an article in todays Chron.
"play primarily for the love of the game" - coming from anybody but Payne I'd
say that was BS, but not from him. I tend to think Payne with only one good leg is better than Walker, but we've got a substantial sunk cost with the investment/new contract with Walker, so it is gonna be tough to hold on to Seth if he can get anykind of a deal with another team. I wish him the best.
 
nunusguy said:
"Of course the injury is a concern when heading into free agency. ... It's hard not to think about it, but I've always tried to make it a point to play primarily for the love of the game and look at the money as an added benefit. I just want to get the surgery done and get on with the rehab process."

The above comment from Payne was taken out of an article in todays Chron.
"play primarily for the love of the game" - coming from anybody but Payne I'd
say that was BS, but not from him. I tend to think Payne with only one good leg is better than Walker, but we've got a substantial sunk cost with the investment/new contract with Walker, so it is gonna be tough to hold on to Seth if he can get anykind of a deal with another team. I wish him the best.
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In that same article, Seth indicated he really wanted to stay here.
 
Better plan on Payne being back next year, which IMO is a good thing:

Unfortunately for Payne, he tore two hamstring tendons attached to his pelvis and will need surgery. Gary Walker suffered the same injury before the 2002 season and capped the year with a trip to the Pro Bowl. Payne expects to make a full recovery and be 100 percent healthy in six months, but he realizes the timing of the injury is anything but advantageous.

"I'm not too concerned with playing next year," Payne said. "I played 16 games this season, and I'll play 16 games next year. This team is heading in the right direction. This is the kind of place I'd like to be. This is the kind of team that has the potential to win the Super Bowl in a couple of years.
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Link
 
infantrycak said:
Better plan on Payne being back next year, which IMO is a good thing:
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I would like to have him back. Looks like he'll be in the same situation, campwise, as last year though.
 
infantrycak said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a major knock on Hovan that he can be high motor on pass rushing but doesn't have discipline for run stopping? Doesn't sound like a NT in that regard.
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Look he is just a name that is available and there aren't many out there that play NT. Hovan has at least done that. Pat Williams is still a good look if Payne iis not the answer. The delima is should we re-sign Payne and Deloach? Should we go after a FA like Williams and sign Deloach? Should we sign Payne and a FA?

Here is the thing. Hovan would come cheap. We could sign him and re-sign Payne with incentive clause if he no so interested in the money like he says. Deloach would then either take a fair contract from us or try FA. If we go after a guy like Williams, who will likely want a high price tag, then we are strapped in re-signing other quality FA.

If we resign Payne and Deloach and Payne injuries are not healed, we are in a world of trouble. Deloach is the worst lineman we have.
 
SESupergenius said:
Here is the thing. Hovan would come cheap.
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Another question would be, why would Hovan want to learn the NT position? It's a tough position and he'd likely go to a team that plays the 43 defense he's used to. Like Arizona with the guy who drafted him, Denny Green. The Texans would have to overpay to get Hovan here as a NT.
 
Hovan has played NT, mostly on passing downs. It's not like DL linemen can't learn the 3-4, look at Walker and Robaire, both were 4-3 guys coming in. That argument doesn't hold water, DL are mostly 4-3 linemen when they learn the 3-4. If Denny Green would want him then I would think he is still a good player, unless of course you think that Denny Green doesn't know what he is talking about, but I'll take Dennys knowledge of yours. I wouldn't want Hovan if he is asking for money money than Payne is, it's that simple.
 
Well, my heartfelt hope is that we resign Seth Payne, probably for the vet min, with incentives, and then go after Halote N'gata very hard in the draft. Not #1, though, but at #2, which I still expect him to be there.
 
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