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Vick and the "Reverse Nifong"

Koolaid Time

Koolaid Time

Drink Up!
From Yahoo Sports link right off the top of the screen...

The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking activities on the property to dog fighting.

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

Police also found items associated with dog fighting, including treadmills and a "pry bar" used to pry apart a dog's jaws. Poindexter has said they also found a bloodied carpet and blood splatters on the floor in a room over the garage.

Vick, a native of Newport News who starred at Virginia Tech, is a registered dog breeder. He said he let a cousin, Davon Boddie, live at the house, and that he didn't know a large kennel on the property could be involved in criminal activity.

This is NOT A rant against Michael Vick. This is a rant about the ***** prosecutor. This is an example of the "Reverse Nifong" syndrome among District Attorneys.

For every District Attorney that is out to railroad a Defendant on no evidence, misleading evidence or fabricated evidence, you have a DA that doesn't prosecute a case in the face of overwhelming evidence because he doesn't want the public backlash over prosecuting a popular local person.

How does he CREDIBLY explain what the investigators found? the Dogs and the Equipment? Its not like you can get this stuff at PETCO.

I bet there will be an influx of meth labs into Surry County Virginia... because this DA will buy an explaination that any lab equipment found is nothing more than a "High School Chemistry Class Experiment"

But wait, the U.S. Attorney for Eastern District of Virginia also has jurisdiction over any charges.

He could prosecute... if Gonzales doesn't replace him first..:shades:
 
R

real

Guest
Koolaid Time said:
From Yahoo Sports link right off the top of the screen...

The prosecutor investigating whether property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was part of a dog fighting operation said Wednesday he still doesn't have solid evidence linking activities on the property to dog fighting.

Poindexter said there are no eyewitnesses who say they saw dog fighting at the home where 66 dogs were seized along with equipment that could be associated with dog fighting. The discoveries were made during a drug raid at the home on April 25.

Police also found items associated with dog fighting, including treadmills and a "pry bar" used to pry apart a dog's jaws. Poindexter has said they also found a bloodied carpet and blood splatters on the floor in a room over the garage.

Vick, a native of Newport News who starred at Virginia Tech, is a registered dog breeder. He said he let a cousin, Davon Boddie, live at the house, and that he didn't know a large kennel on the property could be involved in criminal activity.

This is NOT A rant against Michael Vick. This is a rant about the ***** prosecutor. This is an example of the "Reverse Nifong" syndrome among District Attorneys.

For every District Attorney that is out to railroad a Defendant on no evidence, misleading evidence or fabricated evidence, you have a DA that doesn't prosecute a case in the face of overwhelming evidence because he doesn't want the public backlash over prosecuting a popular local person.

How does he CREDIBLY explain what the investigators found? the Dogs and the Equipment? Its not like you can get this stuff at PETCO.

I bet there will be an influx of meth labs into Surry County Virginia... because this DA will buy an explaination that any lab equipment found is nothing more than a "High School Chemistry Class Experiment"

But wait, the U.S. Attorney for Eastern District of Virginia also has jurisdiction over any charges.

He could prosecute... if Gonzales doesn't replace him first..:shades:
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In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape. A pry bar can just be a precaution because you have so many pitt bulls that there is bound to be a fight to break out occasionally. And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight...

Not taking up for Vick, because I believe he knew what was going on. If he wasn't personally fighting dogs I think he knew that his cousins were. And if his cousins were just selling pitts, I think they knew what they were being sold for. But you can't charge him based on that evidence.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape. A pry bar can just be a precaution because you have so many pitt bulls that there is bound to be a fight to break out occasionally. And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight...

Not taking up for Vick, because I believe he knew what was going on. If he wasn't personally fighting dogs I think he knew that his cousins were. And if his cousins were just selling pitts, I think they knew what they were being sold for. But you can't charge him based on that evidence.
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Helps to know the statute before opining on what can be charged. Virginia has misdemeanor charges for spectators and felony charges for owning, possessing, training or transporting fighting dogs AND for permitting any of those acts on property you control. They do need to show Vick attended a dog fight or actively took part in anything. His ownership of the house and facilitating or purchasing the equipment or just knowledge of what was going on are sufficient to be charged.
 
Shaft75

Shaft75

All Pro
xtruroyaltyx said:
In all honesty that's really not enough evidence. Treadmills can be used just to keep dogs in shape.
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Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.

xtruroyaltyx said:
And you can't prove that the blood spatter was the result of humans making dogs fight
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The bloody glove is never enough for some people huh?

It's sad that after thinking about it, you realize it might not be enough evidence. Like Bonds on steroids or OJ killing his wife... But, luckily there are informants and some good witnesses that can place him at dog fights. Hopefully his cousin will buckle under pressure from being interrogated.
 
R

real

Guest
infantrycak said:
Helps to know the statute before opining on what can be charged. Virginia has misdemeanor charges for spectators and felony charges for owning, possessing, training or transporting fighting dogs AND for permitting any of those acts on property you control. They do need to show Vick attended a dog fight or actively took part in anything. His ownership of the house and facilitating or purchasing the equipment or just knowledge of what was going on are sufficient to be charged.
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ummmm....ok?


I don't really understand the point you're making.

I opinioned on the fact that there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that; which led me to the conclusion that nothing can be charged.
 
R

real

Guest
Shaft75 said:
Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.
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I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.


The bloody glove is never enough for some people huh?

It's sad that after thinking about it, you realize it might not be enough evidence. Like Bonds on steroids or OJ killing his wife... But, luckily there are informants and some good witnesses that can place him at dog fights. Hopefully his cousin will buckle under pressure from being interrogated.
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People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
ummmm....ok?

I don't really understand the point you're making.

I opinioned on the fact that there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that; which led me to the conclusion that nothing can be charged.
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Where do you get "there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that?"

Vick owned the house--check.

Don't have to show Vick trained dogs in that circumstance so if his cousin was he can still be on the hook. There's plenty of evidence for a jury to conclude the cousin was training dogs--scarred dogs, wounded dogs, dog blood, pry bar, weight harnesses, treadmills, etc. You don't just take each piece separately, it is the combined body of information.

xtruroyaltyx said:
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....
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I have too.

Signed,
Clinton Portis
 
Shaft75

Shaft75

All Pro
xtruroyaltyx said:
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.




People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Sorry but your opinion of this situation doesn't exactly shine through your comments.

I think that Vick owning the home and being placed at a dog fight is enough for me.
 
R

real

Guest
infantrycak said:
Where do you get "there isn't enough evidence to prove any of that?"

Vick owned the house--check.

Don't have to show Vick trained dogs in that circumstance so if his cousin was he can still be on the hook. There's plenty of evidence for a jury to conclude the cousin was training dogs--scarred dogs, wounded dogs, dog blood, pry bar, weight harnesses, treadmills, etc.
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You used the word 'if', and the phrase 'can still be' in the same sentence. Not exactly the statements I'd like to be associated with a conviction.

Sure. You can conclude that they were training dogs. Is that a crime ?

Heck, I put a weighted harness on my dog when I take her to the park. Felony ?

If I had a treadmill, I can guarantee you she'd be on it occassionally. felony ?

If I bred a bunch of pit bulls I can gaurantee you I'd have all those things. It's damn near neccessary.

But alluding to the fact that there is 'conclusive' evidence IMO is wrong. You can't prove that any human made those dogs fight. If you want to charge him with animal neglect or something like that...fine....But I don't see how you can charge anybody with fighting them just yet...Especially without any witnesses coming forward.
 
R

real

Guest
Shaft75 said:
Sorry but your opinion of this situation doesn't exactly shine through your comments.
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Well the thread starter clearly stated that this wasn't about Vick (although I've stated several times that I think he's guilty and should pay the consequences). He said it was about the prosecutor/DA or whomever. My comments really had nothing to do with Vick but like I said you twisted them to have some sort of "Vick is innocent" meaning...My comments were strictly about the decision being made not to press charges.

I think that Vick owning the home and being placed at a dog fight is enough for me.
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Vick was placed at a dog fight ?

My bad, I think I missed that.
 
Mr teX

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them. The ownership of a treadmill is not a crime. Putting your dog on a treadmill is not a crime. Your conclusions are based on assumptions. I'm not defending Vick, so you may calm down if you'd like. I clearly stated that I think he has involvement. But there is insufficient evidence to prove it at this point and if you charged him with anything it's basically be based from opinion.




People like to twist what you say and fit it into their own little world. Personally I hope Vick is found guilty and sentenced to jail. I hope that anyone who commits crimes of this nature are caught and found guilty. My comments were based on the evidence that is available at this time. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.
 
Texan_Bill

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Mr teX said:
Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.
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I totally agree....

Signed,
Orenthal James Simpson.
 
Mr teX

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Texan_Bill said:
I totally agree....

Signed,
Orenthal James Simpson.
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It's the truth though TB/OJ & you know it. If one of donald trump's trusted colleagues chose to open up a dog fighting ring in the basement of 1 of his many buildings, sure he's on the hook b/c he owns the building, but can he legitimately say he didn't know what was going on? Hell yeah he can...... unless of course someone places him at 1 of the dog fights. the same can apply to vick.
 
Double Barrel

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
xtruroyaltyx said:
I've seen many dog owners with tread mills....I've even watched animal planet and seen 'the use of treadmills' as a good way to keep your dog in shape if you can't get out and walk them.
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Cesar Millan, "the Dog Whisperer", advocates use of a treadmill to help exorcise your dogs, too.
 
Specnatz

Specnatz

Hall of Fame
Mr teX said:
Well, you may not be defending vick, but i am b/c it is this type of rush to judgement that gets this country into trouble all the time...... see iraq war. people just can't wait until the trial, everything you said is plausible, the only thing Vick is seriously screwed with is the fact that he owned the house.

But just b/c he owns the house doesn't mean he knew what his dumb ass cousin was doing in there.
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You go from dog fighting to the Iraq war? Taking an educated guess I would say you are referring to weapons of mass distruction.

FACT: Hussain used chemical weapons on Iran years ago.
FACT: He used them against certain sects of his own country.

I would take a wild guess and think he had them, but would not realize he used them all up killing people.

FACT: Cousin is to ignorant to have a job and no money except from the sales of drugs.
FACT: Vick is rich and owns the house.
FACT: He cares so little about the money going into the house he sold it for half of its value.

Yeah if he did not know what his "dumb ass cousin was doing" as you said it, then vick is dumber than a box of rocks. A dead box of rocks.

Some of you people amaze me, it is not even funny. I never knew that ignorance is/was bliss.
 
Texan_Bill

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Specnatz said:
You go from dog fighting to the Iraq war? Taking an educated guess I would say you are referring to weapons of mass distruction.

FACT: Hussain used chemical weapons on Iran years ago.
FACT: He used them against certain sects of his own country.

I would take a wild guess and think he had them, but would not realize he used them all up killing people.

FACT: Cousin is to ignorant to have a job and no money except from the sales of drugs.
FACT: Vick is rich and owns the house.
FACT: He cares so little about the money going into the house he sold it for half of its value.

Yeah if he did not know what his "dumb ass cousin was doing" as you said it, then vick is dumber than a box of rocks. A dead box of rocks.

Some of you people amaze me, it is not even funny. I never knew that ignorance is/was bliss.
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Ignorance is bliss................. :splits:
 
HOU-TEX

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
HOU-TEX said:
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:
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It is to pry the dogs jaws apart after they get latched on to another dog.
 
Texan_Bill

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
HOU-TEX said:
I don't mean to butt in here, but can someone fill me in on what a pry bar has to do with anything. I might be having a brainfart or something because I can't figure out what it'd be used for in the alleged dog fights. Beating them??:confused:
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Thanks for asking that.. 'cause I have been real curious as to the revelance of the pry bar too...
 
R

real

Guest
infantrycak said:
Actually it has been reported as more than a spatter--it was described as a room with a blood soaked rug. Combine that with scarred and wounded dogs as things xtru presumably would not have in a normal breeding operation.
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I've said it a bunch of times in this thread and other threads that I think Vick and his cousin are guilty.

But if his cousin says "yeah, sometimes the dogs get loose and get after it. That's why I have the pry bar to break up those occasional fights"

How are you going to prove he's lying without eyewitness accounts or video?

The only thing I can see them charging Vick or his cousin with at this point is animal neglect or something like that. I really can't see how you can prove that they made these dogs fight. If it were as easy as that, I would like to think they'd have already done it.
 
Specnatz

Specnatz

Hall of Fame
HOU-TEX said:
Holy cow! That's some serious stuff! I never knew that. It kind of makes me sorry I asked. Thanks, I think.:)
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A pits jaw is in such a way that it locks in place so as to not break its grip on something. That is why they are used in fighting so much.
 
Texan_Bill

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
Their jaws don't lock. That's a myth.
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Myth

"Pit Bulls have locking jaws." The jaws of the Pit Bull are functionally the same as the jaws of any other breed, and this has been proven via expert examination.

The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of Pit Bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any [other] breed of dog. There is absolutely not evidence for the existence of any kind of ’locking mechanism’ unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier, says Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia (from the ADBA booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)
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infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
But if his cousin says "yeah, sometimes the dogs get loose and get after it. That's why I have the pry bar to break up those occasional fights"

How are you going to prove he's lying without eyewitness accounts or video?
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It's called circumstantial evidence and a credibility determination. Folks get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Somehow I don't think Vick's out of work, drug dealing cousin's testimony will be accepted at face value as you seem to think.
 
R

real

Guest
infantrycak said:
It's called circumstantial evidence and a credibility determination. Folks get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Somehow I don't think Vick's out of work, drug dealing cousin's testimony will be accepted at face value as you seem to think.
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I never said anything about his testimony being accepted. I gave my opinion on the subject posted in this thread.

I have not been to the house nor seen any of the goings on first hand and all I have to go from is what I read, and have seen on TV. How could I make an accurate determination about what somebody else will think about the situation ? I don't know what they'll do...They could say it's not enough evidence or they could feel like you and say it is. Hopefully the truth will come out and all those guilty will be prosecuted.
 
infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
From profootballtalk.com:

"I'm convinced from what I saw that dog fighting has occurred down there, but who was involved in it I don't know at this point," Poindexter said last week. "We're going to find out."

And the evidence apparently is there. Mark Kumpf, a dog-fighting expert who is assisting the present investigation, told the Virginian-Pilot in response to Poindexter's most recent remarks: "There is more evidence there than has been used to convict several other people in Virginia."
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eriadoc

eriadoc

Texan-American
Shaft75 said:
Give me a break. I hope you aren't saying that having a treadmill for a dog is a common thing. No breeder or owner would have a freaking treadmill.
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Ummm .... I have a treadmill for my Welsh Corgi. I got the idea from the Dog Whisperer show. I didn't think they were that rare as to only be associated with dog fighting.
 
Double Barrel

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Pencil Neck said:
A cross and some holy water helps get the demons out, too.

Hadn't heard of the treadmill as an adjunct to exorcism before, though.
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lol:

Man, what's up with my spelling recently? :um: good repy, tho'!

Texan_Bill said:
Is it? Is it really??? :hides:
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I watch it and I don't even have a dog! :shades:

He is pretty amazing with the way he teaches people to deal with 'problem' dogs. The majority of issues are the fault of the owners more than anything else.

He doesn't do cats, though. I doubt anyone could be a "cat whisperer". They just give you that "you're a moron now fetch me some tuna" look.
 
eriadoc

eriadoc

Texan-American
xtruroyaltyx said:
I've always wanted a Welsh Corgi...They're supposed to be one of the smartest if not THE smartest breed...
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Mine's pretty sharp. He's a purebred, but he was the victim of some neglect/abuse for the first year of his life. I've had him for almost a couple years now, and I've managed to teach him to stay, go, lay down, speak/hush, shake hands, roll over, stand on his back legs, etc. Most importantly, I taught him to wait for my permission to fetch, eat, or get on the couch. And I have no clue on how to train dogs, for the most part. I just looked up some stuff online. So he's definitely a lot smarter than I am in that department :shades:
 
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