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Is kicker a need for us?

G

gtexan02

Working?
I remember one mock had us taking a kicker in the 3rd.

I remember KB shanking a good number of kicks over the last 2 years, and failing to register a significant number of touchbacks.

And then I saw Mason Crosby from Colorado (the guy with the 60 yard leg) fall to us in the 6th round, and watched as we passed him up.

Whats the deal? Are we giving KB some more time due to his Indy game winning FG or what?
 
I don't know Gtex...hopefully we will pick someone up around the June 1st cuts or sometime before training camp.....and may the best man win. As it stands right now, I would like to see Kris get cut due to his declining accuracy over the past couple of seasons. I'm too lazy to check it out, but I wonder how many games we've lost in the last few years, by 3 points or less, where we would have won had he made a field goal he missed at some point in the game. Does that make any sense? I'm not asking for specific game winning drive field goals, but games in which we could have won if one was made that was missed during the 4 quarters of play.
 
IIRC, wasn't there an article or something about how Brown switched his kicking style a year or two ago, then switched back due to performance? I could be wrong, but he began kicking with more accuracy afterwards. I'd still hope for some sort of competition for him in camp.

Am I still allowed to post here?
 
I think that KB will be fine. I was just happy to see uss grab a Punter in the UDFA pool because Punter is a much larger issue IMO.
 
HOU-TEX said:
IIRC, wasn't there an article or something about how Brown switched his kicking style a year or two ago, then switched back due to performance? I could be wrong, but he began kicking with more accuracy afterwards. I'd still hope for some sort of competition for him in camp.

Am I still allowed to post here?
Click to expand...
I heard something like that.
I like Brown, but seems like he's just about average.
Yeah, I'd like to see come competition in camp, too! :cowboy1:

whatcha mean by allowing to post?
 
I wouldnt mind bringing in some folks to challenge Kris. Guys like Olindo Mare and such, who were once top notch and maybe needed a change of scenary.
 
76Texan said:
I heard something like that.
I like Brown, but seems like he's just about average.
Yeah, I'd like to see come competition in camp, too! :cowboy1:

whatcha mean by allowing to post?
Click to expand...

I used to frequent the old board and was unaware of this one taking it's place. I guess since it allowed me to post, nothing's really changed much. This board is by far the better of all the boards.:)
 
Kris Brown's accuracy from 30-39, over the last three years, has bothered me a lot. It bothered me enough to look up a few stats.

FGs from 30-39 over the past three seasons

Kris Brown 18/27 .666 (60/76 career, which is .789)
David Akers 16/20 .800
Rob Bironas 13/14 .929 (only 2 years)
Matt Bryant 15/16 .938 (no attempts in 2004)
Phil Dawson 24/29 .828
Jason Elam 22/23 .957 (115/125 for career at that range)
Jay Feely 30/34 .882

I got tired of going through kickers alphabetically at that point, but I'm pretty sure my point is made.
 
eriadoc said:
Kris Brown's accuracy from 30-39, over the last three years, has bothered me a lot. It bothered me enough to look up a few stats.

FGs from 30-39 over the past three seasons

Kris Brown 18/27 .666 (60/76 career, which is .789)
David Akers 16/20 .800
Rob Bironas 13/14 .929 (only 2 years)
Matt Bryant 15/16 .938 (no attempts in 2004)
Phil Dawson 24/29 .828
Jason Elam 22/23 .957 (115/125 for career at that range)
Jay Feely 30/34 .882

I got tired of going through kickers alphabetically at that point, but I'm pretty sure my point is made.
Click to expand...

Indeed! Let the kicking competition begin.:fieldgoal
 
KB was good for shanking FGs to get the first pick in the later parts of 2005, but he is alright.

I'd rather have him than Cortez or Vandershank.

What's Paul Edinger up to these days?
 
OK, I followed up on this, once I had a little time. From 30-39 yards, over the past three seasons, Kris Brown is the worst kicker in the AFC. I didn't do NFC, sorry. And he's the worst by a pretty big margin. It's not even close.

BAL - Stover - 26/28 = .929
BUF - Lindell - 26/29 = .897
CIN - Graham - 28/32 = .875
CLE - Dawson - 24/29 = .828
DEN - Elam - 22/23 = .957
HOU - Brown - 18/27 = .667
IND - Vinatieri - 28/30 = .933
JAX - Scobee - 22/26 = .846
KCC - Tynes - 23/27 = .852
MIA - Feely - 30/34 = .882
NEP - Gostkowski - 7/10 = .700 (only one year, see Vinatieri)
NYJ - Nugent - 17/19 = .895 (only two years)
OAK - Janikowski - 21/25 = .840
PIT - Reed - 29/33 = .879
SDC - Kaeding - 22/23 = .957
TEN - Bironas - 13/14 = .929 (only two years)

Really, that is inexcusably bad. I have a hard time believing the Texans can't find a street FA that can't kick better than that.
 
Both guys kicking the ball should hit the road, imo. Brown is a good cheerleader but is rolling downhill as a kicker and Stanley handicapped our defense more than a couple of times last season. I don't understand why we resigned him.
 
eriadoc said:
OK, I followed up on this, once I had a little time. From 30-39 yards, over the past three seasons, Kris Brown is the worst kicker in the AFC. I didn't do NFC, sorry. And he's the worst by a pretty big margin. It's not even close.

BAL - Stover - 26/28 = .929
BUF - Lindell - 26/29 = .897
CIN - Graham - 28/32 = .875
CLE - Dawson - 24/29 = .828
DEN - Elam - 22/23 = .957
HOU - Brown - 18/27 = .667
IND - Vinatieri - 28/30 = .933
JAX - Scobee - 22/26 = .846
KCC - Tynes - 23/27 = .852
MIA - Feely - 30/34 = .882
NEP - Gostkowski - 7/10 = .700 (only one year, see Vinatieri)
NYJ - Nugent - 17/19 = .895 (only two years)
OAK - Janikowski - 21/25 = .840
PIT - Reed - 29/33 = .879
SDC - Kaeding - 22/23 = .957
TEN - Bironas - 13/14 = .929 (only two years)

Really, that is inexcusably bad. I have a hard time believing the Texans can't find a street FA that can't kick better than that.
Click to expand...
Bad.
But he was 21/28 between 40-49 yds.
Maybe, we just need to go for the longer FGs. :doot:
 
I don't know what the Texans ever saw in him. He wasn't exactly stellar when he was at Pittsburgh.

Have they ever even brought anyone to even compete with him in training camp?
 
He had good years in Pittsburgh in 1999 and 2000. He struggled in 2001. 2002 he became a Texan...

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=27215

Pro Career

2005: Played in 16 games, scoring 102 points, his most in four seasons with the Texans...connected on 26 of 34 FG attempts...connected on all 24 PATs.

2004: Played in all 16 games, scoring 85 points, his most in three seasons in Houston…connected on 17 of 24 FG attempts, including 13 of his first 14…connected on all 34 PATs.

2003: Played in all 16 games for Houston and converted 18 of 22 FG attempts (81.8 percent), as well as all 27 of his PAT attempts…chipped in with four special teams stops…FG percentage was his best since 2000.

2002: Played in all 16 gamesin first season with Texans and converted 17 of 24 FG attempts (70.8 percent) and all 20 PAT attempts…nailed 11 of 14 FG attempts from 40-49 yards and hit 2 of 5 from 50-plus yards.

2001: Played in all 16 games for Steelers and finished with career-high 124 points, topping the 100-point mark for third consecutive season, although he recorded the lowest FG percentage (67.4) of his career…ranked second in the AFC in points (Colts K Mike Vanderjagt, 125)…filled in for punter Josh Miller at Jacksonville (9/9) and averaged 35.3 yards on three punts, including a 46-yarder.

2000: Played in all 16 games and led team in scoring with 107 points…converted 32 of 33 PAT attempts and 25 of 30 FG attempts.

1999: Played in all 16 games as a rookie and led Steelers in scoring with 105 points…nailed 25 of 29 FG attempts and 30 of 31 PATs…boasted streak of 13 consecutive FGs made after missing first career attempt…made NFL debut at Cleveland (9/12).

College Career:

Four-year letterwinner at Nebraska, where he holds numerous school career records and left ranking seventh in NCAA history with 388 points…holds Cornhusker marks in career FGs (57 of 77), PATs (217 of 222), consecutive PATs (125) and consecutive FGs (17)…also holds NCAA record for PATs (217)…first-team All-Big 12 pick and first-team Academic All-Big 12 selection as a senior…scored 89 points, connecting on 14 of 21 FGs and 47 of 48 PATs…GTE/CSIDA Academic All-American and Academic All-Big 12 as a junior…Associated Press All-Big 12 second-team choice…semifinalist for Lou Groza Award, given to the nation’s top kicker…scored 116 points on 18 of 21 FGs and converted all 62 PATs…set school records for points (116), FGs (18) and FG percentage (.857)…booted 54 of 88 kickoffs out of end zone for touchbacks…All-Big 12 honorable mention selection as a sophomore…kicked career-long 51-yarder against Texas in Big 12 Championship Game…set school single-season freshman record for kickers with 97 points…majored in education.
 
Shaft75 left a neg rep for me that says "try looking up beyond 39 yards". Nice. That was not my argument,so I really don't care how he does beyond 39 yards. Everytime he lines up for something between 30-39, I cringe. The fact that I recognized that trend at some point infers that I also recognize that he's done acceptably well at longer ranges. Therefore, the anomaly caught my eye.

Try actually understanding a point before you leave neg rep.

EDIT to add - Without doing all your homework for you, here is some of the info you requested:

FGs from 40-49 and 50+ yds., combined

Stover - 29/35 = .829
Lindell - 21/28 = .750
Graham - 25/34 = .735
Dawson - 19/28 = .679
Elam - 29/42 = .690
Brown - 23/35 = .657
Vinatieri - 24/32 = .750

So I'm not sure what you're argument is, unless you left neg rep because I confirmed your theory that he just sucks as a kicker.
 
True again.
I wonder how the rest of the guys did?
You have those figures too?
I thought overall, KB is about average, or somewhere around there (league wide). I could be wrong though.
 
eriadoc said:
Shaft75 left a neg rep for me that says "try looking up beyond 39 yards". Nice. That was not my argument,so I really don't care how he does beyond 39 yards. Everytime he lines up for something between 30-39, I cringe. The fact that I recognized that trend at some point infers that I also recognize that he's done acceptably well at longer ranges. Therefore, the anomaly caught my eye.

Try actually understanding a point before you leave neg rep.

EDIT to add - Without doing all your homework for you, here is some of the info you requested:

FGs from 40-49 and 50+ yds., combined

Stover - 29/35 = .829
Lindell - 21/28 = .750
Graham - 25/34 = .735
Dawson - 19/28 = .679
Elam - 29/42 = .690
Brown - 23/35 = .657
Vinatieri - 24/32 = .750

So I'm not sure what you're argument is, unless you left neg rep because I confirmed your theory that he just sucks as a kicker.
Click to expand...

First, neg rep should be for someone be way out of bounds on something nor because you disagree with someone. That is a bit childish. (he gave me neg reps because I said "unfekking" , but it is only neg 1 so oh well).

I do not think anyone is completely happy with Brown and we would at the very least like to see someone brought in to at least compete for the job.
 
eriadoc said:
Shaft75 left a neg rep for me that says "try looking up beyond 39 yards". Nice. That was not my argument,so I really don't care how he does beyond 39 yards. Everytime he lines up for something between 30-39, I cringe. The fact that I recognized that trend at some point infers that I also recognize that he's done acceptably well at longer ranges. Therefore, the anomaly caught my eye.

Try actually understanding a point before you leave neg rep.

EDIT to add - Without doing all your homework for you, here is some of the info you requested:

FGs from 40-49 and 50+ yds., combined

Stover - 29/35 = .829
Lindell - 21/28 = .750
Graham - 25/34 = .735
Dawson - 19/28 = .679
Elam - 29/42 = .690
Brown - 23/35 = .657
Vinatieri - 24/32 = .750

So I'm not sure what you're argument is, unless you left neg rep because I confirmed your theory that he just sucks as a kicker.
Click to expand...

Glad you did more research. I left you negative rep because you didn't do more of it. It was a weak point without all of the facts.

*See Bill's post*
 
Specnatz said:
I do not think anyone is completely happy with Brown and we would at the very least like to see someone brought in to at least compete for the job.
Click to expand...

That's where I stand. I just looked up the stats to put numbers to the trend that I noticed. I actually ended up realizing that he's pretty subpar at anything beyond 30 yards. Stats don't tell the whole story, of course, but in this case, that works against Brown. Elam, Stover, Lindell, and others spend a greater percentage of their time kicking in adverse weather conditions, when KB has the comfy confines of Reliant stadium to deal with. Even on our road games, we face Jacksonville and Indy, neither of whom have adverse weather conditions (well, occasionally Jax, but rare). Even in Tennessee, there might be snow, but you won't face the extreme cold you face in the northeast. I wonder what his percentages would be if they were adjusted for those climates.
 
Cjeremy635 said:
I don't know Gtex...hopefully we will pick someone up around the June 1st cuts or sometime before training camp.....and may the best man win. As it stands right now, I would like to see Kris get cut due to his declining accuracy over the past couple of seasons. I'm too lazy to check it out, but I wonder how many games we've lost in the last few years, by 3 points or less, where we would have won had he made a field goal he missed at some point in the game. Does that make any sense? I'm not asking for specific game winning drive field goals, but games in which we could have won if one was made that was missed during the 4 quarters of play.
Click to expand...



2006

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

10/01/06 Miami 17-15 32 yd. FG and 2 PTA's =5pts.
11/12/06 Jag's 13-10 25 yd, 28 yd & 1 PTS=7 pts.
12/03/06 Raider's 23-14 42 yd, 47 yd, 39 yd & 2 PTA's=11 pts.
12/24/06 Colt's 27-24 42 yd, 48 yd & 3 PTA's=9 pts.

Texan's Losses because of FG's and PTA's:

ZERO


2005

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

10/30/05 Brown's 19-16 4/5FG's & 1/1 PTA's=13 pts.

Texans's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:


12/11/05 Titan's 10-13 1/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=4 pts.
01/01/05 49'ers 17-20 1/2 FG's & 2/2 PTA's=5 pts.


2004

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

09/26/04 Chiefs 24-21 3/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=10pts

Texan's Overtime chance:

11/21/04 Packers 16-13 2/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=7pts


2003

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

9/07/03 Dolphins 21-20 5/7 FG's=15pts
9/28/03 Jag's 24-20 1/2 FG's & 3/3 PTA's=6pts.
11/16/03 Bills 12-10 2/2 FG's=6pts
11/30/03 Falcon's 17-13 1/2 FG's & 2/2 PTA's=5

Texan's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:

ZERO


2002

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

11/24/02 Giants 16-14 2/2 FG's=6pts

Texan's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:

ZERO
 
eriadoc said:
That's where I stand. I just looked up the stats to put numbers to the trend that I noticed. I actually ended up realizing that he's pretty subpar at anything beyond 30 yards. Stats don't tell the whole story, of course, but in this case, that works against Brown. Elam, Stover, Lindell, and others spend a greater percentage of their time kicking in adverse weather conditions, when KB has the comfy confines of Reliant stadium to deal with. Even on our road games, we face Jacksonville and Indy, neither of whom have adverse weather conditions (well, occasionally Jax, but rare). Even in Tennessee, there might be snow, but you won't face the extreme cold you face in the northeast. I wonder what his percentages would be if they were adjusted for those climates.
Click to expand...

I had the strangest idea... Why not look up how Brown has done in games in the northeast?
 
DiapHer said:
2006

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

10/01/06 Miami 17-15 32 yd. FG and 2 PTA's =5pts.
11/12/06 Jag's 13-10 25 yd, 28 yd & 1 PTS=7 pts.
12/03/06 Raider's 23-14 42 yd, 47 yd, 39 yd & 2 PTA's=11 pts.
12/24/06 Colt's 27-24 42 yd, 48 yd & 3 PTA's=9 pts.

Texan's Losses because of FG's and PTA's:

ZERO


2005

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

10/30/05 Brown's 19-16 4/5FG's & 1/1 PTA's=13 pts.

Texans's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:


12/11/05 Titan's 10-13 1/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=4 pts.
01/01/05 49'ers 17-20 1/2 FG's & 2/2 PTA's=5 pts.


2004

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

09/26/04 Chiefs 24-21 3/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=10pts

Texan's Overtime chance:

11/21/04 Packers 16-13 2/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=7pts


2003

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

9/07/03 Dolphins 21-20 5/7 FG's=15pts
9/28/03 Jag's 24-20 1/2 FG's & 3/3 PTA's=6pts.
11/16/03 Bills 12-10 2/2 FG's=6pts
11/30/03 Falcon's 17-13 1/2 FG's & 2/2 PTA's=5

Texan's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:

ZERO


2002

Texan's Wins because of FG's & PTA's:

11/24/02 Giants 16-14 2/2 FG's=6pts

Texan's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:

ZERO
Click to expand...



NICE find DiapHer!!!
 
DiapHer said:
2005Texans's Losses because of FG's & PTA's:

12/11/05 Titan's 10-13 1/3 FG's & 1/1 PTA=4 pts.
01/01/05 49'ers 17-20 1/2 FG's & 2/2 PTA's=5 pts.
Click to expand...

I know there should be a certain loss to Baltimore reflected in here somewhere.
 
eriadoc said:
I know there should be a certain loss to Baltimore reflected in here somewhere.
Click to expand...


eriadoc I'm not seeing it.

Raven's 16 Texan's 15

K. Brown 5/5 FG's 39 yds, 26 yds, 22 yds., 29 yds, 39 yds.

KICKING
FG LG XP PTS
K. Brown 5/5 39 0/0 15
G. Earl 0/0 0 3/3 3
KICKING
FG LG XP PTS
M. Stover 1/1 38 1/1 4
 
We have enough needs that we're going to have to suck it up at certain positions. This year, kicker and punter are two of those positions. We have two guys signed. Let them do it for a year and re-evaluate when it's all said and done. I can't stand the feeling I get in my stomach when KB shanks a FG (usually once a game...sometimes more), but that's what we got.

Stanley? Ugh...I hope the UDFA punter we picked up beats him out and owns.
 
I would be very surprised if Brown is our Kicker for the entire year next year. He has the 12th largest cap hit on the team, 1.73m (before Okoye signs) and is signed through 2009. If he is cut this year his signing bonus would accelerate on the 2007 books for 1.14m this year. The question is can we find someone to bring in for 600k this year that can do just as good of a job as one of the worst kickers in the AFC over his career? I think so. Having a Kicker make that type of money with lower kicking percentages than his cohorts, in mostly good conditions, is waiver wire material in my opinion.
 
DiapHer said:
eriadoc I'm not seeing it.

Raven's 16 Texan's 15

K. Brown 5/5 FG's 39 yds, 26 yds, 22 yds., 29 yds, 39 yds.

KICKING
FG LG XP PTS
K. Brown 5/5 39 0/0 15
G. Earl 0/0 0 3/3 3
KICKING
FG LG XP PTS
M. Stover 1/1 38 1/1 4
Click to expand...

Sorry, I checked out of the board for the weekend. The loss against the Ravens was the one where Brown hooked one about ten miles to the left, inciting league-wide speculation that the Texans were tanking it for the Reggie Bush selection.

I am not sure where you're pulling the info from; maybe they just have it entered wrong. There's also the possibility that I am associating that colossal miss with the wrong game, but I don't think so. I'm sure there are others here that remember that kick and that game.
 
eriadoc said:
I am not sure where you're pulling the info from; maybe they just have it entered wrong.
Click to expand...

For what its worth, I did a cursory review of the "Game Centers" on HoustonTexans.com and I could not find any glaring typos..

Also for what its worth and interesting enough, Morten Anderson's career pct. was 79.3% and Brown's is 76.3%.
 
Texan_Bill said:
For what its worth, I did a cursory review of the "Game Centers" on HoustonTexans.com and I could not find any glaring typos..

Also for what its worth and interesting enough, Morten Anderson's career pct. was 79.3% and Brown's is 76.3%.
Click to expand...

It's not the overall percentages that worry me - it's the downward trend of the last few years. Who knows? KB might be able to turn it around, but we have no reason to believe so at this point. Even more pertinently, the team has no reason to rely on that at this point.
 
eriadoc said:
Sorry, I checked out of the board for the weekend. The loss against the Ravens was the one where Brown hooked one about ten miles to the left, inciting league-wide speculation that the Texans were tanking it for the Reggie Bush selection.

I am not sure where you're pulling the info from; maybe they just have it entered wrong. There's also the possibility that I am associating that colossal miss with the wrong game, but I don't think so. I'm sure there are others here that remember that kick and that game.
Click to expand...


He was a perfect five for five on FG attempts (22, 26, 29, 39, and 39) at Baltimore (12/4)...it was the fourth time in his career and second as a Texan that he made five field goals in a game...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051204_HOU@BAL

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=9

had a rough day in Tennessee (12/11), connecting on just one of three FG attempts...had one kick blocked and missed a 31-yarder with no time on the clock that would have sent the game to overtime...had one carry for four yards and a first down on a fake FG attempt...made solo PAT..bounced back to make three of three FG attempts (26, 27, and 41) and all three PATs against Arizona (12/18)...connected on a 37-yarder and 53-yarder before missing two (38, 48) wide right against Jacksonville (12/24)...made one of two FG attempts and connected both PATs against San Francisco (1/1).


You could be talking about the Jacksonville game but the most controversial was the 49'ers it was not the Raven's game.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051224_JAC@HOU

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060101_HOU@SF
 
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