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Concerns with Amobi Okoye

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gtexan02

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I said it once, and I'll say it again. A stud at DT is one of the most difficult positions to scout, draft, and develop. As a result, I am necessarily excited about Okoye's potential, while also being nervous about his potential failure.

Why? Because this team has a LOT of needs. And while DT is one of the chief needs of the team, we also have other team needs that would have been easier to scout and draft.

that being said, if Okoye lives up to the hype, this will be one of best picks in Texans history.

Here are my reasons for being nervous, and i'd love for someone to quell these fears:

1. Okoye is a one hit wonder -
Is it his age or was the draft money a factor? In his first 3 seasons, Okoye only totaled 66 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, and 2.5 sacks. Thats 3 seasons combined stats.

In his last season he recorded 55 tackles, 15 for loss, and 8 sacks.

So which Okoye will show up for the Texans?

2. Pettrino chose Jamaal Anderson over Okoye -
Who knows Amobi Okoye better than his former coach, Bobby Pettrino of the Atlanta Falcons? No one. So why, if Atlanta needed Dl help, did he look towards Jamaal Anderson over Amobi Okoye? Sure the Falcons lost Kerney, but if great DLs are made from the inside out, why not take a guy he's familiar with?

3. Okoye has 3 key knocks that make me especially nervous on his scouting report
- He takes plays off
- He relies on athleticism and doesn't possess good pass rushing skills
- Is inconsisent in size and play

Anyway, all that being said, I think its clear that Okoye was by FAR the best DT in this draft, and I hope and pray he lives up to his potential. Because if he does, look out Tommie Harris
 
gtexan02 said:
I said it once, and I'll say it again. A stud at DT is one of the most difficult positions to scout, draft, and develop. As a result, I am necessarily excited about Okoye's potential, while also being nervous about his potential failure.

Why? Because this team has a LOT of needs. And while DT is one of the chief needs of the team, we also have other team needs that would have been easier to scout and draft.

that being said, if Okoye lives up to the hype, this will be one of best picks in Texans history.

Here are my reasons for being nervous, and i'd love for someone to quell these fears:

1. Okoye is a one hit wonder -
Is it his age or was the draft money a factor? In his first 3 seasons, Okoye only totaled 66 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, and 2.5 sacks. Thats 3 seasons combined stats.

In his last season he recorded 55 tackles, 15 for loss, and 8 sacks.

So which Okoye will show up for the Texans?

2. Pettrino chose Jamaal Anderson over Okoye -
Who knows Amobi Okoye better than his former coach, Bobby Pettrino of the Atlanta Falcons? No one. So why, if Atlanta needed Dl help, did he look towards Jamaal Anderson over Amobi Okoye? Sure the Falcons lost Kerney, but if great DLs are made from the inside out, why not take a guy he's familiar with?

3. Okoye has 3 key knocks that make me especially nervous on his scouting report
- He takes plays off
- He relies on athleticism and doesn't possess good pass rushing skills
- Is inconsisent in size and play

Anyway, all that being said, I think its clear that Okoye was by FAR the best DT in this draft, and I hope and pray he lives up to his potential. Because if he does, look out Tommie Harris
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I say that if he keeps his weight within reason and develops more speed and upper body strength, he will be a prize.

The kid has smarts. Someone just needs to watch over him and give him consistent constructive coaching.
 
He was 16 yrs old as a freshman. Did you expect him to dominate college football at that age? His junior year he was a 6'2" 317 lbs nose tackle who opened things up for Elvis Dumervil (who went on to have 20 sacks that season). Senior year he was asked to do more as a pass rusher so he slimmed down to around 290 where he had 55 tackles, 15 for loss, and 8 sacks.

Bobby Petrino chose Jamaal Anderson over Amobi Okoye because they already have a similar type of defensive tackle in Rod Coleman and had just cut Patrick Kerney.
 
steel blue took the words out of my mouth.. here are my explanations

1: his previous stats (before this year)...not great but come on he was a growing 16, 17 and 18 year old in those years- he def gets a half-pass here because of the uniqueness of his age..obviously it would take a while to dominate..he's still growing some but not like he was during those years..last year he started to get comfortable with his body and started excelling.. remember hes the equivalent of a sophmore/ young junior- is there a sophmore (or junior) DT in college right now as dominant as he was last year??

2:petrino passing on him- simple..atlanta has rod coleman and babineaux (both similiar in type to okoye) as well as grady jackson so they're pretty set at DT whereas the have no suitable DE to take over from Kerney and Anderson is a pretty good DE prospect also to say the least

3:knocks

taking plays off/inconsistency: they say this about nearly every d-line prospect... ever.. players have good and bad plays or plays that they dont really have a chance of being involved in... whats important is that they make alot of good plays and try to minimise the bad plays..i like this kid because he seems to have a desire and internal motivation to be the best- something TJ and, it must be said, Mario (albeit to a much lesser extent) dont seem to have

technique-haven't seen him much but obviously at 19 he's not a finished project and will hopefully be coached up to improve his moves and technique but he has some nice moves (especially a spin) and is less raw than mario was last year
 
One question everyone:

Name one 19 year old that can come in and be Bruce Smith right off the bat?

Zilch.

Give him time and coaching..
 
Also DT stats can be VERY deceiving, which is one of the reasons why it is so hard to know what you have.

DT is not a position where you can stack up sacks and tackles. Like LB is.

I have a lot of faith in this guy, like Demeco said. A lot of DTs just like to sit there and draw the double. Amobi is athlethic enough to draw the double while putting the pressure on the QB.

Also, who knows what Mario will be able to do one-on-one 100% healthy. Not to mention this guy helps out Travis and Weaver. This Dline could be D line that NFL teams worry about.

Amobi Okoye :doot:
 
Good insights gtexan. Like everyone has stated, I think Okoye has so much potential.

I love the fact that he has his head on straight, he seems light years more mature than any other guys drafted. He's a smart kid, wants to learn, wants to achieve more and work his hardest. He has that desire.

*However, I don't expect him to come in and dominate next season. I would love for him to but I think both him and mario need a year or 2 to 'find themselves'. I do expect this to help Travis Johnson...he has had a slow start to his nfl career, to say the least...but at the same time, have we had anyone really pushing him!? I think mario and okoye will not only help each other out, but TJ as well...i may be just an optimistic fan saying...maybe this year will be the year TJ breaks out of his shell.

*I love his age, but at the same time it causes a concern. As stated before I love his maturity, will, and intelligence (not for his age...but his draft class.) however what concerns me is that he is still growing. I wonder how this growing, and metabolism change may effect his playing style, speed, weight, etc. i would love for him to put on some more lbs. but i dont want it to effect negatively his speed and quickness.

*COACHING- This is what scares me the most. We know first hand what bad coaching can do to a player. Apparently Carr had 0 coaching while here and was taught where to throw the ball for each play. We have the potential to have one of the best defensive lines in the entire nfl in 3 years after Mario, Amobi, Travis J., and Anthony W. have played together healthy. This won't happen if they have bad coaching though. Again these guys are 21, 20 years old and aren't experts. they are relying on the 'expert' coaches to tell them how to get better.

that's what i'm most concerned about. And I feel it's all on the Texans staff, not okoye. The team nutritionist could/should help with okoye's metabolism changes if any as he adjusts to the nfl and doing that 24/7, not school anymore..it's all business; and coaching- McNair needs to get the most knowledgable DL coach around in here because he's got about $100 million tied up in guaranteed money on that Dline.
 
Leahmic223 said:
Also DT stats can be VERY deceiving, which is one of the reasons why it is so hard to know what you have.

DT is not a position where you can stack up sacks and tackles. Like LB is.

I have a lot of faith in this guy, like Demeco said. A lot of DTs just like to sit there and draw the double. Amobi is athlethic enough to draw the double while putting the pressure on the QB.

Also, who knows what Mario will be able to do one-on-one 100% healthy. Not to mention this guy helps out Travis and Weaver. This Dline could be D line that NFL teams worry about.

Amobi Okoye :doot:
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I was thinking the same thing. I remember watching an NFL Films clips a couple of years ago where Detroit was playing Tampa Bay. The clip showed Joey Harrington under center, eyes wide open and darting all over the LOS. You see in eyes he was worried about where the rush was coming from.

I can't wait too see that same look in the eyes of QBs playing against the Texans.
 
The year before, there were a couple of guys whom he played with:
DE Dumerville (Denver) and Stanley (Dallas)

Dumerville had 20 sacks in 2005.
 
gtexan02 said:
Just out of curiosity...why did Dumerville drop so far?
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5'11"; 250-258lbs

the usual "too small to play every down at DE"

Also, I found this:

Dumervil Awarded Nagurski Trophy
Tuesday December 06, 2005 10:34am

KATV Arkansas
(Sports Network) - University of Louisville senior defensive end Elvis Dumervil was named the 2005 Bronko Nagurski Trophy winner by The Football Writers Association of America and the Charlotte Touchdown Club Monday.

The award is presented annually to college football's national defensive player of the year.

"Individual awards are nice, but I think a lot of credit goes to everybody on our defense, Coach Petrino and our defensive coaches, Montavious Stanley and Amobi Okoye and our other guys up front getting great pressure up the middle," Dumervil said.

Dumervil leads the nation in sacks (20) and tackles for loss (23) and set a new NCAA record for forced fumbles in a single season with 10. He set an NCAA record for sacks in consecutive games with nine and set an NCAA record for sacks in a single game with six against Kentucky on Sept. 4.
 
I can think of another guy that went to a losing team as a rookie DT. And Okoye reminds me alot of him(minus the belly). That team instantly became better. Warren Sapp - Bucs
 
Shaft75 said:
I can think of another guy that went to a losing team as a rookie DT. And Okoye reminds me alot of him(minus the belly). That team instantly became better. Warren Sapp - Bucs
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I never wanted to say it, but they are pretty similar. Sapp makes any defense better.

Once Again...AMOBI OKOYE :doot:
 
snippet:

ATLANTA -- For the second time in a week, the Atlanta Falcons have lost a key defensive starter to an offseason injury that could sideline him several months. This time, it's standout tackle Rod Coleman, who suffered a ruptured right quadriceps that required surgery Monday.

The team's starting "under" tackle and a Pro Bowl-caliber defender, Coleman will likely miss the entire offseason training program and training camp and there is a chance he might not be completely rehabilitated by the start of the regular season.

The injury, which Coleman acknowledged to several teammates, occurred over the weekend in a boating accident.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2854644
 
Kaiser Toro said:
snippet:

ATLANTA -- For the second time in a week, the Atlanta Falcons have lost a key defensive starter to an offseason injury that could sideline him several months. This time, it's standout tackle Rod Coleman, who suffered a ruptured right quadriceps that required surgery Monday.

The team's starting "under" tackle and a Pro Bowl-caliber defender, Coleman will likely miss the entire offseason training program and training camp and there is a chance he might not be completely rehabilitated by the start of the regular season.

The injury, which Coleman acknowledged to several teammates, occurred over the weekend in a boating accident.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2854644
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Wow I bet Pettrino wishes he could have Okoye back right now!

Although to be fair, I REALLY wanted J Anderson. But I'm liking the idea of Okoye more and more. What are the chances Okoye starts this season?
 
Dallas_Texan said:
Wow I bet Pettrino wishes he could have Okoye back right now!

Although to be fair, I REALLY wanted J Anderson. But I'm liking the idea of Okoye more and more. What are the chances Okoye starts this season?
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I like Anderson, too.
But I think Kubiak says he rather leave Weaver outside, therefore Okoye.
IMO, he has a good chance to start.
We'll see how he handle himself in camp.
 
Leahmic223 said:
Also DT stats can be VERY deceiving, which is one of the reasons why it is so hard to know what you have.

DT is not a position where you can stack up sacks and tackles. Like LB is.

I have a lot of faith in this guy, like Demeco said. A lot of DTs just like to sit there and draw the double. Amobi is athlethic enough to draw the double while putting the pressure on the QB.

Also, who knows what Mario will be able to do one-on-one 100% healthy. Not to mention this guy helps out Travis and Weaver. This Dline could be D line that NFL teams worry about.

Amobi Okoye :doot:
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Yep, DTs are not on the field to generate gaudy stats.

Okoye's job will be to make things easier for both Mario Williams and Demeco Ryans.

If Okoye is a starter and stats increase for both Williams and Ryans, I am pretty sure a lot of that will be because of Okoye playing his role and the proper technique.
 
76Texan said:
I like Anderson, too.
But I think Kubiak says he rather leave Weaver outside, therefore Okoye.
IMO, he has a good chance to start.
We'll see how he handle himself in camp.
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Check out Anthony Weaver's blog about the pick:

This past weekend I watched the draft up until our first pick. I like our entire draft class in general, but I really like our first-rounder, Amobi Okoye. I’m really excited about the opportunity to work along with him and help him hone his skills a little bit and see what he’s all about. Any first-round pick, like Mario last year, is going to be exciting to watch. In general, I think our team is going to be a lot of fun to watch for our fans this year.

I haven’t met Amobi, but like coach Smith said, he’s a prototypical 3-technique defensive tackle. To clarify, the 3-technique tackle is always lined up over the guard, while the 1-technique tackle is lined up over the center. Whereas your 1-technique, or nose guard, is usually your run stopper, the 3-technique not only has to be a run-stopper because he’s going to face a lot of double teams, but he also has to put pressure on the quarterback, whether that means taking up two guys on a double team and getting push up the middle or just beating the offensive lineman cleanly. So the 3-technique has to be a certain size where he can take on a constant double team, and also be able to withstand that impact on his body week-in and week-out. And he also has to be quick enough where he can put pressure on the passer, too.

I played the 3-technique a little last year, and it’s a tough job. So Amobi will be a huge asset for us in the trenches, and everyone expects great things from him.

A lot has been made of Amobi’s age. I don’t think it’s a big deal. Simply put, if you can play, you can play. That being said, I look forward to working with him and mentoring I’m going to continue what I’ve been doing and hopefully lead by example. I’m not going to go out there with any more emphasis on trying to be a rah-rah guy or anything like that. I just plan to go out there and work as hard as I usually do and hope that those other guys follow in line.
......
Another development this offseason has been the addition of defensive line coach Jethro Franklin, who replaces coach Karm. The two have vastly different coaching styles. Coach Karm would get on you every now and again, and he had a tremendous amount of passion for the game. But Jethro approaches things a little bit differently, maybe because he’s younger. He has a little bit more bounce in his step. I think the young guys on our defensive line will relate to that maybe a little bit better than they did with Karm. It should do well for us.


In July we’ll have some time off before the season, and I’d like to get away for a few days before training camp. I don’t have anything planned yet. But to be honest, my mind hasn’t gone that far ahead. My focus right now is just to get back healthy for the season. My mission has started already. I want to get back and play my natural position, which is defensive end, and have an impact out there. While I think I played well last year, I think I could’ve done more, and I expect to do that this year.
Click to expand...


The entire blog post is worth reading.
 
Rod Coleman is a 9 year player and Petrino passing on Okoye has me a bit bothered too...to be honest. If he is "all that"....his own coach from Louisville would be all over it...but he wasn't. They did need an end and I wanted Anderson...so I understand to a certain extent....but it always bothers me when "can't miss" players don't get drafted by their ex-coaches. I will say that it didn't hurt Portis much when Butch Davis passed on him for William Green.

The problem with Weaver inside is that he doesn't have the skills of a one gap under tackle and he isn't really a traditional two gap 4-3 inside player...he's more of a 3-4 DE. Nice blog stuff though.
 
wicked_wayz said:
good find texan chick....i always wanted to know the difference between the 1 technique and 3 technique, and now i know.

go amobi-wan okoye:wild:
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3 technique is the fast guy and the other tackle is the fat guy. :) (of course this doesn't apply to warren sapp) :wild:
 
Vinny said:
Rod Coleman is a 9 year player and Petrino passing on Okoye has me a bit bothered too...to be honest. If he is "all that"....his own coach from Louisville would be all over it...but he wasn't. They did need an end and I wanted Anderson...so I understand to a certain extent....but it always bothers me when "can't miss" players don't get drafted by their ex-coaches.
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It would be interesting if you could get an honest behind the scenes answer now on whether they would do the same thing. Anderson and Okoye graded closely so you can see need making the difference. If they had known Coleman was out injuring himself would need have made them act differently?
 
infantrycak said:
It would be interesting if you could get an honest behind the scenes answer now on whether they would do the same thing. Anderson and Okoye graded closely so you can see need making the difference. If they had known Coleman was out injuring himself would need have made them act differently?
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This is an odd draft for me to digest...I saw some Louisville games and didn't pay much attention nor notice Okoye much last year...and I never saw our other first day pick play at all other than a few highlights. I honestly never heard of Lane College and I lived in TN for a few years. My comments are more on the nit-picky side more than not being happy with the selection. I have a feeling it is going to take a few years for Okoye to mature into the NFL. He played in the 280's last year and is only around 300 because of the combine, and was a great workout guy (sound familiar?).

Just bored off-season blather type stuff from me right now...I got to see the new guys play to comment too much more...either that or rant about how my draft board can beat up your draft board.
 
I'm coming late to this thread so excuse me if I dredge up old stuff but...

One of the things I like about Okoye is that he's had to play with bigger, faster, stronger, and more experienced guys his entire college career. The fact that he was able to perform well in those circumstances says a lot about him.

I'm afraid it's going to take him some time to acclimate to the speed and complexity of the pro game. But I think (or is it hope?) he's going to make the transition fairly quickly.

If our defensive line doesn't start looking dominant this year, I'm going to be very let down.
 
last year he was the age of most freshman so if a freshman had those stats people on this site would be salivating at the prospects of getting him in 2 years just so happens we already got him. if he works out, unlike most dreftees you hope anchor whatever position they play for 10 years, with this guy he can be the anchor of the d-line for 15 years. you have never been able to say that for any defensive rookie in history. based on that he has by age alone the most upside of any defensive player out there just because of the logevitty factor.
 
I think some people are looking at his age only as a good thing. It can be bad too. What if his body gets messed up because he is taking on fully matured guys? At 19 you are still growing, and you can mess yourself up if you are not careful.
 
rmartin65 said:
I think some people are looking at his age only as a good thing. It can be bad too. What if his body gets messed up because he is taking on fully matured guys? At 19 you are still growing, and you can mess yourself up if you are not careful.
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well would you rather have him at 19 or be like chris weinke and be 26 and fully matured. he age is great as far as the longevity thing but can be bad as far as growing up in the nfl, but you have to admit the good outweigh the bad.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Check out Anthony Weaver's blog about the pick:




The entire blog post is worth reading.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, I've reduced my visits to the HT-site since the makeover a few weeks back, and the Weaver blogs are one of the only things I actually miss.
Weaver is a wellspoken intelligent poster, and not too scared to feed us a few tidbits of information on what goes around behind the scenes :)
 
Iv'e heard someone say TJ was also a 3-technique, so who do we have that's a 1-technique? or was that Seth Payne's spot?
 
TK_Gamer said:
Iv'e heard someone say TJ was also a 3-technique, so who do we have that's a 1-technique? or was that Seth Payne's spot?
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Honestly I gotta think that TJs days are numbered here in Houston, because he is the same type player as Okoye and even though the Texans may platoon their DLine people, certain players are always "first among equals" and TJ is just too expensive to be buried deep in the DC.
My preference for DLine with the #10 pick was like some others in that I thought Jamaal Anderson was the best DLine player in part because of his expereince and success in the SEC.
One drawback about Anderson is that along with Weaver & Mario he would have been the teams 3rd player whos "natural position" was strongside DE. Talk about redundancy at a single position ! Many might have thought he could convert nicely to the weakside, but that was (and still is if Weaver is back at DE) what we've hoped for Mario but he just doesn't look like a weakside guy ? It will be interesting to see where the Falcons play him ?
But I'm excited about the Okoye pick, and looking forward to what he brings to the Texans DLine ?
 
nunusguy said:
Honestly I gotta think that TJs days are numbered here in Houston, because he is the same type player as Okoye and even though the Texans may platoon their DLine people, certain players are always "first among equals" and TJ is just too expensive to be buried deep in the DC.
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Johnson still has over $5 million of his signing bonus unamortized. And Travis will 'only' make a $435K salary in '07. I'm not saying that TJ is a lock to make the team. Just that if he is released, it will be due to a football decision, not a financial decision.
 
Vinny said:
guys like Anthony Maddox and Jeff Zgonina are our resident two gap type players.
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I guess that's where they're set to play. But, they seem undersized at the position. New DL coach Jethro Franklin always had massive 2 gap types like Grady Jackson and Gilbert Brown when he coached with the Packers. Looks like a position the Texans haven't filled with their prototype guy just yet. Oh well, there's always next year's 1st round pick.
 
Lucky said:
I guess that's where they're set to play. But, they seem undersized at the position. New DL coach Jethro Franklin always had massive 2 gap types like Grady Jackson and Gilbert Brown when he coached with the Packers. Looks like a position the Texans haven't filled with their prototype guy just yet. Oh well, there's always next year's 1st round pick.
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Zgonina really can't play the 3technique at a high level...he has no pass rushing skills at all, so while he doesn't have the kind of size we are used to....I'm sure he isn't a 3 technique player (kinda like Weaver is a tackle tweener too).

I think we will be soft against the run next year. Hopefully, the pass rush improves.
 
Vinny said:
guys like Anthony Maddox and Jeff Zgonina are our resident two gap type players.
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I dunno about the Z-guy, but Weaver at 280 would be a runt among most all NFL 2-gappers. And given that strongside 4-3 DEs have to have some quicks for edge pass-rushing, how does a DLine guy go from having strongside DE as his best position in the 4-3 to the 2-gap inside as his next best ?
When it comes to 1-gapper DT on the Texans roster, I gotta group Weaver in with Okoye & TJ and put Maddox with Z-guy.
 
Zgonina himself said he wasn't much of a pass rusher. I see him as Seth Payne lite. Weaver isn't much of a one gap player...he is best as a 3-4 end....a traditionally two gap type position. He isn't much of a pass rusher/penetrator either.
 
If your theory is valid that Weaver is basically a 2-gap type player (and perhaps it is, I'm not sure), then thats an implicit shot at Kubiaks ability to identitfy DLine personel appropriate for his team as he took Weaver in FA to be his DE.
 
nunusguy said:
If your theory is valid that Weaver is basically a 2-gap type player (and perhaps it is, I'm not sure), then thats an implicit shot at Kubiaks ability to identitfy DLine personel appropriate for his team as he took Weaver in FA to be his DE.
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you sure it's kubes making defensive personnel decisions?
 
PowerfulDragon said:
you sure it's kubes making defensive personnel decisions?
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Its well documented that he made the final call on the Mario pick (another decision of dubious accuracy - but I'll give it another year to see), so I would think he was also the ultimate decision maker in last years top FA transaction, even though it involved a D player.
 
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