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What Is and What Might Have Been

DenverBorn

DenverBorn

Waterboy
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...

Do you have anything that the FO did right? I think that we already have a RB, so we don't need AD. Also Mario is better than any DE this year, he was just injured and double-teamed all year. Rick Smith is going to trade Carr for something. Finally we have our Best QB in Franchise History in Schaub. Just calm down a little bit.
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...

Trading Carr in 2006 was not a possibility. If you are going to have an agenda, get the facts straight first.
 
It is funny, I think the Texans organization probably thought that the move for Shaub would excite the fan base and start the healing process for this organization to move forward. Although this might eventually be the case, in the short term this move has appeared to open up these old wounds. I know it has for me.

If you are going to be a Texan fan at this place in time, you HAVE to be able to let go of the past and look forward to the future. The organization made a HUGE mistake last year and today we heard McNair admit that mistake and we've seen the organization take steps to fix the problem. What else do you want them to do?

I hate the Cowboys and refuse to root for the Titans. Although it hasn't been easy being a Texan fan, it is much more fun than not having any team to root for at all. This may not get turned around quickly, but if the Bengals can do it, things will eventually turn around here. Last year is a lot to get over, but if you can't do it, find another team to root for or find another hobby...life is too short.
 
Spike said:
It is funny, I think the Texans organization probably thought that the move for Shaub would excite the fan base and start the healing process for this organization to move forward. Although this might eventually be the case, in the short term this move has appeared to open up these old wounds. I know it has for me.

If you are going to be a Texan fan at this place in time, you HAVE to be able to let go of the past and look forward to the future. The organization made a HUGE mistake last year and today we heard McNair admit that mistake and we've seen the organization take steps to fix the problem. What else do you want them to do?

I hate the Cowboys and refuse to root for the Titans. Although it hasn't been easy being a Texan fan, it is much more fun than not having any team to root for at all. This may not get turned around quickly, but if the Bengals can do it, things will eventually turn around here. Last year is a lot to get over, but if you can't do it, find another team to root for or find another hobby...life is too short.
Click to expand...

I hear you and agree with you...

But some wounds never heal... I've never been right since the "Stagger Lee" play (I think it was against Denver) or the 41-38 loss in Buffalo... Those two still resonate, in fact, thinking about right now is getting me ticked.
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...

you know i agree with a lot of what you say in principle but lets just enjoy the day and wait and see what happens draft day. Let just hope Schaub doesnt have that 'new carr smell' though....i want something thats been mudding and beeon on some old school road trips.

as for what we ended with..here is my take on your 'where we end up' section...

1. We get no value for Carr because Carr has no value. Anyone actually surprised? I have been saying 5th round or worse the whole time barring $$ restructuring

2. We don't have Vince Young, we have Matt Schaub. Advantage: Titans.

3. Mario managed to play a whole season severely injured in the NFL, lots of snaps, and didnt further injure himself. That shows heart and pride..he could blow up this year...id take Mario over any DL in this draft. still vince > mario and you cant argue that especially with what we had to do this offseason.

4. We keep our 1st Round pick and prevent ourselves from having to think QB in the 1st Round or even later...Schaub is long term possible answer..only 25..we essentially drafted Schaub in the 2nd Round...that is good value even if you had to give up another 2nd the following year. The drop from 8 to 10 aint that big a deal. It will make our choice that much easier. Expect a Landry/Gaines/Hall/Nelson to be available when we pick...defense getting more help

5. You watched AP play. That dude wasnt dropping to #8. No way, no how...5% chance...i dont want it to happen, that may send my Pops to the looney bin.

6. If the Texans start winning, who cares where the game is televised. If its not locally televised in your area you got an excuse to get out of the house and hit the pub.

we paid a high price for Schaub but we were already thinking a 1st day pick on a QB. We got arguably the best QB available this offseason, especially with his young age mixed with 2 years in the WCO....and we got it for 2 2nd round picks. And we still pick in Top 10 on Day One.
 
Texan_Bill said:
I hear you and agree with you...

But some wounds never heal... I've never been right since the "Stagger Lee" play (I think it was against Denver) or the 41-38 loss in Buffalo... Those two still resonate, in fact, thinking about right now is getting me ticked.
Click to expand...

oh noes.....yes Glanville v. Reeves....really surprised how that turned out....

Kerry Cash throwing the ball into that fan's sign with Buddy's face on it after Montana punked us. I loved Buddy and was right across the field at the Dome. burned into my retina.
 
Texan Bill - These times will make you enjoy the good times even more. If you didnt' care, it wouldn't be as much fun to follow.
 
Spike said:
It is funny, I think the Texans organization probably thought that the move for Shaub would excite the fan base and start the healing process for this organization to move forward. Although this might eventually be the case, in the short term this move has appeared to open up these old wounds. I know it has for me.

If you are going to be a Texan fan at this place in time, you HAVE to be able to let go of the past and look forward to the future. The organization made a HUGE mistake last year and today we heard McNair admit that mistake and we've seen the organization take steps to fix the problem. What else do you want them to do?

I hate the Cowboys and refuse to root for the Titans. Although it hasn't been easy being a Texan fan, it is much more fun than not having any team to root for at all. This may not get turned around quickly, but if the Bengals can do it, things will eventually turn around here. Last year is a lot to get over, but if you can't do it, find another team to root for or find another hobby...life is too short.
Click to expand...

You make some great points. I too hate the cowboys.

I don't live in Texas, so I am told by everyone who knows anything about football that the Texans will never win, and it is truly depressing, but it is great to have an underdog to root for because if they do win I can rub it in a fan of that teams face that we won. I still am bragging about how we beat Indianapolis, and I love it. I can't wait for the Schaub era to begin! Go Texans!!!!!!!!!!
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...

Good one Nostradamus. What are you going to post next? There might be a Japenese invasion on Hawaii? People shouldn't go to the towers on 9/11? I mean since you seem so good at predicting the past, why not.
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...
The Texan owner is an absolute nut to let this go down. He lets the FO do this when he could have had his franchise QB last yr. The Texans will be this decades Bungals.
 
please.

Matt Schaub is better than any QB in the upcoming draft and he's better than anyone who was on the FA market. He's in essence the Texans second round pick this year. Since the first round trading 8 for 10 soesn't mean anything since we'll still get a great player. Plus he played in a west coast offence and knows it very well.

Next year is next year. Carr still has some value.

In the overall picture I'm fine with getting Matt Schaub and a fifth round pick (Carr's trade value) for 2 second round picks.

Adrian Peterson is undersized, injury prone and would not fit into Kubiak's offense. Plus we have Ahman Green, Ron Dayne and a very bright younf player in Chris Taylor plsu Lundy who is a servicable backup down the road.

Texans dont want him and they definately dont need another domanick davis.

Draft defense Draft defense.

And as for Mario Williams being no good. Give me a break. Guy got doubled team on almost every play it was very well known he played all year on a banged up foot as well. Dude plays hard is tough as **** and is young and only going to get more dominant. Guy opened up the field to let Ryans make a 140 tackles and Greenwood over a 100. More value than just numbers.
 
ugh. Ok i'm a big UT fan as it is. but seriously, come on.

1. Trading Carr was not really an option. We should've signed him to a smaller contract that wouldn't have killed us.

2. We could've drafted Young. I would've been happy with it....very happy. But i think Cutler is going to have the best career of the "big 3" from last year. We're lucky to have a GM that has operated under/with Mike Shannahan. Genius move to move up and snag Cutler IMO.

3. You're not happy with the Mario pick, who is a more gifted DE then Anderson, but you want him this draft? No way AP falls to 10 much less 8. Get over it. It should be sinking in to people heads now that AP was never really a thought to anyone but the pundits.

4. Ok looking at it I thnk the biggest thing is Quinn is probably going to the Lions at 2 if they are smart. That's the biggest reason for this trade. That and you think the 2002 class was bad next year's class leaves as much to be desired. We were probably looking 2-3 round this year for a QB anyway. Though i will admit next year's second hurts.
 
And who says VY is a star? He played well at times last year, not all year.

True, he played better than Carr, but who didn't?

Schuab is a better QB than Quinn, had we wanted him. He is better than Carr, thats a given. He has shown ability in his short ammount of playing time to WIN games. So, is he better than VY, personaly I think after the 2 games with them next year...the answer will shock you.

Mario a bad player...are you on something? Double teamed and hurt and STILL got our LBs a ton of plays seeing he intimidated the ball carrier, and they ran AWAY from him.
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...


Ask any scout there, there is no DE that compares to Mario in this draft. there are only 2 de's that weigh over 285 and they have aboslutely no athleticism compared to mario. Also VY was never an option for the texans last year. They were either going Reggie bush or Mario. also matt shaub will act as a 2nd round pick, so we move to #10 pick, big deal. Your crazy if you actually thought AP is going to be available then. Its doubtful Landry would even make it to 8. Also in case you havn't noticed, you are about the 15th person to post a thread like this, so congrats on essentially copying and pasting what everyone else like you has already done. Oh and besides demeco, how have our 2nd round draft picks panned out?
 
Bongo59 said:
The Texan owner is an absolute nut to let this go down. He lets the FO do this when he could have had his franchise QB last yr. The Texans will be this decades Bungals.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem being this years Bengals.... weren't they in the AFC Championship game in this decade??

& whether you want to believe it or not, our defense was better in '06, than it was in '05. Had we drafted Vince(which I'd have been totally fine with) we wouldn't have won the 6 games our defense won for us this year. We wouldn't have won any of the games Vince's defense won for him last year.

I think we should have ditched Carr, and offer Garcia the starting job.

Draft Mario, Demeco, Spencer, Winston, Owen, trade our 5th for Eric Moulds, Wali, and David Anderson.

But then we'd be drafting around the 17th pick, and we'd be talking about playoffs next year...... but you remember what that got us last time don't you??
 
Redraft 2006 and Demeco's top 5.

Nice job, Kubiak - LOSER!

If we would've just... if we would've just.

If you would've just pulled the trigger, the post would've never happened.

(It's a joke - relax...it's a rubber bullet but still does enough damage to stop the post!)
 
thunderkyss said:
He's a star, how can you deny that??

He might not be a "good" QB, or may never be a "good" QB.

But he is already, without a doubt a Star in this league.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt his potential etc... I just don't agree that he should have been probowl bound after a few wins. To be in the probowl I feel you should be proven all year. just my opinion
 
Andrew6 said:
I don't doubt his potential etc... I just don't agree that he should have been probowl bound after a few wins. To be in the probowl I feel you should be proven all year. just my opinion
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. You should go to the probowl for the quality of your play.

Vince got there on his popularity... hence "star" & not "good QB"
 
For the record, I have never said Mario is bad. All I've said is that players just as good as Mario (Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson) come along every year.
 
Gaines adams and jamaal anderson physically are nowhere near as good as mario. If mario was magically in this years draft he would be undisputed #1 de. Im not hating on either of those guys at all, just letting you know mario was considered the best DE prospect since peppers in '02. And every year there are good QB prospects, so i guess you could say we could just wait and grab a qb next year too.
 
DenverBorn said:
OK, first I'll say that I think we're a better team with Schaub than with Carr. Or Plummer. Or Garcia. Or Patrick Ramsey, FHS

But let's compare what we've done and what we should have done

What We Did

1. Extend David Carr and pay him huge $
2. Draft Mario Williams in 2006
3. Trade down in the first and give up two seconds for Matt Schaub in 2007
4. Release David Carr or trade for negligible value

What We Should Have Done

1. Trade David Carr for decent value in 2006
2. Draft Vince Young in 2006
3. Draft Jamaal Anderson, or, heaven forbid, Adrian Peterson in 2007
4. Keep the second round picks in 2007 and 2008

Because of one REALLY STUPID decision, here's where we end up

1. We get no value for Carr
2. We do not have as good a QB as we otherwise could have had
3. We have a DE that's no better than who we could have drafted in 2007
4. We lose two second round picks
5. We lose any outside shot at Adrian Peterson
6. Tennessee gets televised into many more homes in Texas than do the Texans


Great job, guys
Click to expand...

Holy crap! Am I really reading this? First of all, let me start out by saying how FREAKIN ANNOYING it is to STILL hear all this should have drafted Vince Young crap! Vince Young makes some plays that make him look great, yes, but he makes more plays that make him look like a servicable back up. I'd rather have a QB that is consistent with his play. With that said....How can you POSSIBLE state that Matt Schaub won't be as good or better than VY? As far as im concerned, with everything I've heard Schaub say I wouldn't doubt he's every bit the leader VY is, but a smarter more consistent QB. How can you POSSIBLY say Mario Williams isn't as good as Jamaal Anderson? You definitely can't base that on hype because Mario got ten times the hype Anderson gets. None of your points have any credibility to them. You don't know that we won't get any value for Carr yet, HE IS STILL ON THE TEAM. The only point that is a fact is we lose two 2nd round picks. And if Schaub is who he's supposed to be, he's worth two first round picks in my book.
 
Andrew6 said:
I don't doubt his potential etc... I just don't agree that he should have been probowl bound after a few wins. To be in the probowl I feel you should be proven all year. just my opinion
Click to expand...


signed,

whatever legitimate QB did not go to the Pro Bowl because freakin' Romo did.
 
Vinny said:
The NFL did when he was named Rookie of the Year and chose him to play in the Pro Bowl.
Click to expand...

Its going to be interesting to see how NFL defenses adapt to VY and vice-versa. There were some games where he looked terrible (80 yards aginst the Jags) and some where he was brilliant. However, as we have said many times, 12 largley succesful games are but a footnote in a career. VY, like every player drafted last year, still has plenty to prove.
 
I'm going to take a wait and see on a QB who has only started two games automatically being named the starter without having to compete for the job. (anybody on this board remember the complaint about a certain QB who did not have to compete?) I do think the really good thing is that now there will be other topics than how sorry or how great but misunderstood Carr is. My hope and prayer for Schaub is that the FO finally fixes what most people who know football agree is possibly the worst line in the NFL. If that doesn't get fixed, don't look for more wins.
 
GNTLEWOLF said:
I'm going to take a wait and see on a QB who has only started two games automatically being named the starter without having to compete for the job. (anybody on this board remember the complaint about a certain QB who did not have to compete?) I do think the really good thing is that now there will be other topics than how sorry or how great but misunderstood Carr is. My hope and prayer for Schaub is that the FO finally fixes what most people who know football agree is possibly the worst line in the NFL. If that doesn't get fixed, don't look for more wins.
Click to expand...


Respectively there really wouldn't be any competetion to begin with. If Carr is traded Sage, Porter and Van Pelt? The last two aren't even viable options. Sage would compete but ultimately fail to a better QB. Aslo you don't give upt two 2 rounders and sign the guy to a substanial contract if you don't intened to start him.

But i agree competely on the Oline. Nervous about Spencer(injury) and Black being starters and i'd like to see us draft a center. Kalil is probably out of the question... i wonder what Sattele and Moses are expected to fall to.
 
Can't help but laugh at some of these posts. Anyone who thinks the whole passing on VY thing is fading anytime soon is in for a big awakening. This was just year 1 of his pro career, he's going to go on to do some great things.
 
Re-reading my own post, there is one huge error in my logic that I'm surprised no one has pointed out. That is, had we drafted VY, we wouldn't be drafting in the 8 spot this year. We'd be looking at a pick in the 18-20 range, if not lower, much like Tennessee is this year. And our number 2 pick would have been less attractive as well. So I guess kudos are in order for the front office for finding a way to keep us in the top 10 for draft picks!
 
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