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Bears Game Easy? Nope, More Cover 2

TEXANS84

TEXANS84

Moderator
Staff member
From this mornings Chronicle:

Bad news, Texans fans: There could be more of the same Sunday in Chicago when the Texans play the Bears, whose coach, Lovie Smith, is a Dungy disciple. The Bears are a bit more aggressive than the Colts, but the Texans can expect to see some form of the Cover 2. So it's back to the drawing board, and tight end Billy Miller said the Texans can start by not beating themselves.
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Hopefully the Texans can figure out some way to breakdown the Cover 2, otherwise we may be in for a long day again.

Side note: Brian Urlacher underwent an MRI today...no word yet.
 
Urlacher probably won't play. :whoohoo: I think Lovie runs the Tampa Cover 2 because he used to be the linebackers coach there.
 
Ugh, I didn't like reading that this morning either.

Their O-Line is really banged up though. It would be nice to see our front four get a legitimate rush on the QB.
 
Good. More Cover 2 is a good thing. I hope every team we play for the next three years runs it and runs it well.

There you go David, figure it out OR BE DESTROYED!

Seriously though he's got to learn how to beat it sooner or later.
 
Look at it this way. If the Cowboys can beat the Bears the Texans certainly can. So they should. One more week to prepare for this cover 2 mess and Chad Hutchison at QB?? We should win by at least a TD.
 
Passing Defense - Passing Yards/Game
Team G Att Att/G Cmp Pct Yds Yds/G TDs Int Sck SckYds
Tampa Bay 13 355 27.3 198 55.8 2125 163.5 15 15 37 220
Miami 13 362 27.8 203 56.1 2151 165.5 15 9 32 190
Buffalo 13 409 31.5 224 54.8 2293 176.4 18 17 38 270
Washington 13 394 30.3 224 56.9 2293 176.4 12 13 30 190
Pittsburgh 13 399 30.7 219 54.9 2305 177.3 12 16 38 207
New York (N) 13 375 28.8 230 61.3 2331 179.3 23 10 31 206
Baltimore 13 410 31.5 225 54.9 2404 184.9 10 17 36 248
New York (A) 13 393 30.2 217 55.2 2435 187.3 14 16 29 182
Denver 13 407 31.3 226 55.5 2439 187.6 12 10 28 197
Cleveland 13 383 29.5 232 60.6 2552 196.3 14 15 23 148
Arizona 13 411 31.6 228 55.5 2560 196.9 17 11 29 164
Chicago 13 430 33.1 243 56.5 2649 203.8 19 16 31 151
Philadelphia 13 467 35.9 282 60.4 2685 206.5 13 15 42 229
St. Louis 13 399 30.7 241 60.4 2685 206.5 20 6 25 180
Cincinnati 13 399 30.7 248 62.2 2688 206.8 21 16 30 201
Jacksonville 13 395 30.4 248 62.8 2759 212.2 15 8 29 175
New England 13 438 33.7 253 57.8 2805 215.8 15 18 37 267
Tennessee 13 412 31.7 258 62.6 2815 216.5 20 15 28 192
Detroit 13 432 33.2 265 61.3 2822 217.1 24 13 31 179
San Francisco 13 393 30.2 244 62.1 2831 217.8 22 8 26 183
Atlanta 13 431 33.2 271 62.9 2833 217.9 14 15 36 247
Carolina 13 420 32.3 248 59.0 2855 219.6 12 22 25 154
Seattle 13 473 36.4 281 59.4 2967 228.2 16 20 29 172
Oakland 13 376 28.9 228 60.6 2975 228.8 24 6 17 132
Minnesota 13 431 33.2 266 61.7 2987 229.8 23 7 33 201
Dallas 13 411 31.6 253 61.6 3027 232.8 26 8 28 166
Green Bay 13 446 34.3 269 60.3 3127 240.5 28 7 30 214
Indianapolis 13 456 35.1 307 67.3 3178
Houston 13 445 34.2 297 66.7 3208 246.8 31 17 18 118
San Diego 13 482 37.1 301 62.4 3215 247.3 16 17 24 116
New Orleans 13 432 33.2 270 62.5 3326 255.8 21 10 27 156
Kansas City 13 413 31.8 253 61.3 3515 270.4 27 9 32 197

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=8&_1:col_1=7
 
Well, the Cowboys and Jags can beat the Bears.....but the Bears also beat the Vikings and the Packers.
Also factor this in from the NOAA weather center:
Sunday: A chance of flurries. Cloudy and breezy, with a high around 32.
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So, this will be interesting.
 
True Vinny, as far as those stats go, but a lot of the yards on Indy are desparation yards because they have taken teams out of the game plan. Chicago on the other hand is only averaging 15.3 pts per game. This team is the opposite of the Colts (cover 2 aside) reasonably strong D (weakened by the loss of Urlacher)--17th on yards (336.5ypg), 12th on scoring (19.8ppg) and passing (203.8) and 24th on rushing (132.8)--with a horrible O--31st in the league for yards (241.4 ypg), scoring (15.3 ppg), passing (138.6) and 23rd on rushing (102.8).

As an aside, the Bears have given up 5 sacks each of the last 2 weeks. Time for the OLB's to step up.
 
Thanks for finding that Vinny....I was looking for that.

Its pretty sad that we have allowed 600 more passing yards than the Bears, and over a 1000 more than the leauge leading Bucs.
 
infantrycak said:
True Vinny, as far as those stats go, but a lot of the yards on Indy are desparation yards because they have taken teams out of the game plan. Chicago on the other hand is only averaging 15.3 pts per game. This team is the opposite of the Colts (cover 2 aside)--reasonably strong D (weakened by the loss of Urlacher) with a horrible O--31st in the league for yards (241.4 ypg), scoring (15.3 ppg), passing (138.6) and 23rd on rushing (102.8).

As an aside, the Bears have given up 5 sacks each of the last 2 weeks. Time for the OLB's to step up.
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I see Davis having a big day while the Bears keep a safety over Johnson and we throw our obligatory ONE TD pass 2 INT's and get possibly one rushing TD. We are one of the worst road teams in the NFL. The most we scored on the road this year is 24 points but we had a defensive score in that game.
 
Here's my take on why the Cover 2 is such a pain in the *****.

Basically, (as if I knew what I'm talking about) the Cover 2 puts the 2 safeties in deep zones on both sides of the field, essentially double covering both outside receivers, while dropping back a linebacker or another DB to cover the middle. So you'd think that by sending a TE or another WR over the middle, you'd get isolation one on one.

But the problem, and the reason that the Cover 2 so very effective against the Texans offense, is that the opposing teams are successful in getting pressure on Carr using only a 4-man rush. They don't ever need to blitz. They don't ever need to rush 5. The 4 down linemen get the job done. Not ONLY that, but past games have shown that it takes Davis and an extra TE to help the OL give Carr enough Carr time to throw.

So that leaves what? 3 people running out for a pass against 7 people in coverage. Yeah, that'll work. All freakin day long. :loser

So, when you talk about Carr "not figuring out" the Cover 2, I think it would help if some people gave him a little time to "figure it out".

Capers said on his radio show on Monday night that the downfield passing game was "not our strength right now", and commented more than once about containing the 4 man rush.

So when you watch the Bears game on Sunday, if the Bears 4-man front harrasses Carr without any help, it will be another long day.
 
If our line can give Carr time to unload the ball, AJ can beat the double coverage. How about (and I know this has been hashed and rehashed) bringing Miller in with Bruener in a two tight end set. Miller can get open against most LB's. I just hope Carr is given enough time this Sunday to bust the cover 2.
 
the wonger need food said:
Completing passes against a Cover 2 defense might as well be trying to figure out the space-time continuum for this coaching staff.
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You misspelled "quarterback".
 
You all may think this is really stupid, but something just dawned on me. When teams play cover 2 Davis has better games and when they dont they commit to the run and Carr/AJ have big games. If we could figure out how to do both no matter what defense the teams are running i think our offense will be set.

Excuse me stupidity but i just realized that. :hmmm:
 
I can't understand for the life of me why we don't run motions to overload one side, this helps in creating confusion in the cover 2 and if they remain in a zone one side is of the field has more recievers open. Can anyone explain to me why we are not motioning? Why we are not using the TE's? Why we never run the fullback?
 
SESupergenius said:
I can't understand for the life of me why we don't run motions to overload one side, this helps in creating confusion in the cover 2 and if they remain in a zone one side is of the field has more recievers open. Can anyone explain to me why we are not motioning? Why we are not using the TE's? Why we never run the fullback?
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All good questions with no answers. Although I think it might have something to do with the space-time continuum. :hmmm:
 
I'll take a stab at the Supergenius' questions:

1) I don't know why the Texans don't include more motion from the wideouts. The only reason I can think of is that you want to keep a CB on the edge if it's a run play so he can't help out. Really, I got nothing.

2) Bruener can't catch & Miller can't uncover anymore. The bulking up of Miller has been a mistake.

3) Moran Norris & Jarrod Baxter are terrible runners. Now if the Texans picked up a more versatile FB (and I think they should), this would be a more appropriate question
 
Shouldn't the cover 2 be flawed if you run slant patterns? I mean, Indy was dropping back their middle linebacker making it tougher....why don't we just throw more slants?
It worked for us well with Bradford on a series.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Shouldn't the cover 2 be flawed if you run slant patterns? I mean, Indy was dropping back their middle linebacker making it tougher....why don't we just throw more slants?
It worked for us well with Bradford on a series.
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#1Yeah, that peek picture you got is nice. To answer your question yeah i think it would exploit the cover 2 a little. Any quick slants or hitch routes don't anything dont have anything to do with safeties over the top and we all know AJ can break a few tackles and take it to the house.

Another thing is where has the quick screen to AJ been, I haven't seen that in a while and it never seems to fail. I've been wating on them to fake it and throw over top when the CB comes up to make a play.
 
AndreJ said:
#1Yeah, that peek picture you got is nice.
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Homemade Peek avatar....post if you would like one in the Technical Support section of the main board...I have a custom avatar thread going there by request.

To answer your question yeah i think it would exploit the cover 2 a little. Any quick slants or hitch routes don't anything dont have anything to do with safeties over the top and we all know AJ can break a few tackles and take it to the house.

Another thing is where has the quick screen to AJ been, I haven't seen that in a while and it never seems to fail. I've been wating on them to fake it and throw over top when the CB comes up to make a play.
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You know, something to the likes of what Corey Bradford did last year against the Dolphins, or AJ's pass against the Bills when he knocked down 3 defenders for a TD.
 
TEXANS84 said:
Shouldn't the cover 2 be flawed if you run slant patterns? I mean, Indy was dropping back their middle linebacker making it tougher....why don't we just throw more slants?
It worked for us well with Bradford on a series.
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Carr said that they had some quick passes called but every time the Colts had someone sitting on it. Remember the first Colts game where Carr threw a pick six late in the game. Slant with a corner sitting on it. :hmmm: It seems like we are always complimenting the opposing teams defense for outsmarting us.
 
wags said:
Carr said that they had some quick passes called but every time the Colts had someone sitting on it. Remember the first Colts game where Carr threw a pick six late in the game. Slant with a corner sitting on it. :hmmm: It seems like we are always complimenting the opposing teams defense for outsmarting us.
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I'd just throw it up to AJ into double coverage along the sideline between the safety and corner. Come on, everytime we throw it deep to him, he makes a play (with the exception of the 4th and 10 vs. the Jets when Carr underthrew him). I think sometimes the coaching staff think too much...
 
Fiddy said:
I'd just throw it up to AJ into double coverage along the sideline between the safety and corner. Come on, everytime we throw it deep to him, he makes a play
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I agree....look at the Chiefs game, the Raiders game, and the Vikings game (you can see the Vikings game catch on the pro-bowl aj video). All of them were jump up and grab. Look at Randy Moss...he's just as tall as AJ, and he just goes up there and gets it.
 
Fiddy said:
(with the exception of the 4th and 10 vs. the Jets when Carr underthrew him).
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That pass was to Miller not AJ. Carr didn't underthrow AJ, he was a little too quick getting it off to Miller and almost hit AJ, taking him by surprise and making it look like the pass was to him.
 
Yeah, he could throw up a bomb to Andre in double coverage, but the chances are about 50/50 we all know he can make the play, but thats not something you want to make a habit of.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ. You just dont go around challenging double coverage like you're invincible, Im sorry.
 
infantrycak said:
That pass was to Miller not AJ. Carr didn't underthrow AJ, he was a little too quick getting it off to Miller and almost hit AJ, taking him by surprise and making it look like the pass was to him.
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I think he meant the game this year when we went for it on the first drive. Carr underthrew it a little and the DB ripped it away from AJ in the end zone.
 
AndreJ said:
Yeah, he could throw up a bomb to Andre in double coverage, but the chances are about 50/50 we all know he can make the play, but thats not something you want to make a habit of.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ. You just dont go around challenging double coverage like you're invincible, Im sorry.
Click to expand...

Pardon me while I repeat that.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Pardon me while I repeat that again.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Anyone listening?
 
Someone said we should be able to beat the Bears, because Dallas did. They forgot one thing, the head coach for Dallas is Parcells. I don't like the man, but he's a helluva coach. Remember he had an offensive CO by the name of Palmer, but I bet Palmer got an earful on what to call. Parcells is a master at using his players. Dallas has nowhere near the talent we have, but they win games. There has been dischord there this year too. We will simply get out coached again, pure and simple. Weather could also be a big factor in this game and it favors the Bears.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
Someone said we should be able to beat the Bears, because Dallas did. They forgot one thing, the head coach for Dallas is Parcells. I don't like the man, but he's a helluva coach. Remember he had an offensive CO by the name of Palmer, but I bet Palmer got an earful on what to call. Parcells is a master at using his players. Dallas has nowhere near the talent we have, but they win games. There has been dischord there this year too. We will simply get out coached again, pure and simple. Weather could also be a big factor in this game and it favors the Bears.
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That was my post...I don't think Parcells could outcoach a high school coach right now; he's been poor decision wise all year. And I think the Cowboys and Texans have the same record so as far as winning games it's two peas in the same pod.

I'm very down on Parcells right now. He's blundered and blustered this whole year.

I think the Texans win this game. I would never favor a team that starts Chad Hutchison with Jeff George backing him up.
 
Marcus said:
Pardon me while I repeat that.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Pardon me while I repeat that again.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Anyone listening?
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Yeah, we heard. You said, "If Car throws it to AJ deep, while he's in double coverage, he will catch it 99% of the time, but we should still FIRE PALMER!!!"

PS-HJam72 does not necessarily represent the thoughts of HJam72 or any his supporting posts (which are all just as stupid). :crazy:
 
"Fire Palmer" is just a natural thing for many of us by now. It just comes out before we even know we're saying it.

This morning I woke up and laid there in bed. I didn't particularly want to go to work or anything but I knew I had to so I rolled over, sat upright, and started the morning eye wiping and yawning/groaning as I got ready to hit the shower.

My wife, who gets up the same time as I do said: "What?" and I said "Huh? I didn't say anything. I just yawned."

She wasn't going to be denied though and said "No you weren't just yawning. You said something. It sounded like "Fire bomber" or something. We're you dreaming"

Fire Bomber? Fire Palmer?

This morning I saw someone at McDonalds saying "They put cheese on this after I asked them not to! I told them twice not to put cheese on this one! I hate these *****s!" and the guys friend who was opening his sandwhich mumbled "Fire Palmer" without even looking up.

I give Palmer about 3 games into the 2005 season before he's tarred and feathered whether he deserves it or not.
 
A book takes a long time to write and I've got such a short attention span that I don't think I'd make it to the end Fire Palmer.

Seriously though I cannot even count the number of times people have come up to me at work wanting to talk about the Texans and instantly started getting down on Chris Palmer. If it was something that you just couldn't deny him being Fire Palmer responsible for then I could agree but 99% of the people out there wanting to fire Chris Palmer seem to be blaming him for things he couldn't possibly be accountable for. If David Carr makes a boneheaded decision it's "Fire Palmer". If Domanick Davis gets swarmed behind the line of scrimmage even though nobody blocked for him it's "Fire Palmer". If Dom Capers pants fell down in a press conference and it was revealed that he was wearing a garter belt and stockings then somebody, somewhere would respond with "Fire Palmer".

I'm not a real big Chris Palmer fan but he can't be responsible for everything that happens out there. Can he?

Anyway back on topic the only reason David Carr & Co. can't beat the Cover 2 is that David's got two choices on every pass play and that's first and last options. He doesn't look at anyone else and what's worse he doesn't have all that much time to look at anyone else. To learn how to beat this defense he's going to have to be given the time to look at it. The o-line has to give him more time.
 
Hervoyel said:
To learn how to beat this defense he's going to have to be given the time to look at it. The o-line has to give him more time.
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Great point. Carr is bad at his progressions on cover 2 teams and there are certainly QB's who could come in behind this exact OL and perform better--not as well as behind a good OL, but better than Carr is doing. Carr is not stupid however and the best solution is building the OL to give him enough time to learn. Once he has learned how to deal with cover 2 with protection, hopefully he will be much better at dealing with it when the protection breaks down than he is now. On the other hand, give him time and he still can't learn to dissect cover 2 schemes--that's the time to look for QB options.
 
The worse and worse the weather's getting in Chicago, the more unlikely that the Cover 2 will be an issue. The wind will be down-right blustery. It looks like this is turning into a smash-mouth running game, a game of who wants it most.
 
infantrycak said:
On the other hand, give him time and he still can't learn to dissect cover 2 schemes--that's the time to look for QB options.
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That's the whole point. You can't really judge if Carr is up to the task until you give him that time. That involves the offensive line. And since it involves the offensive line, you may indeed have to wait another 2 or 3 seasons before you can judge if Carr is up to the task . . . if improving the line requires different personnel either through the draft or free agency.

I don't see a short term fix here.
 
And speaking of short term fixes, (which I don't believe exists in the NFL), that happens to be the root cause of this "Fire Palmer" circus.

I have broken down Texans fans in general into 2 distinct groups.

Group A - fans who believe that the Texans already have the talent to be a playoff caliber team.

Group B - fans who do not think the Texans have the talent to be a playoff caliber team.

The Fire Everyone Now crowd and the Playcalling Police belong in Group A. (IMHO)

People who are in Group B believe the jury is still out as far as the coaching staff is concerned, and more time is required before an evaluation can be made.
 
Splitting a hair with you here Marcus but I believe the Texans do have the talent to be a playoff caliber team right now. Surely they're a few players and some depth away from being "talent-wise" anything more than a first round speed bump but I think starter for starter the Texans have enough players to be that first round speed bump.

What they lack is the experience to be a playoff team. In some places you've got guys who have that experience but it's lacking in too many of the important places. In years to come I think we'll look at a lot of these same guys playing very well and see clearly that, with the exception of a few pieces, the Texans simply lacked the head/heart of a playoff team in 2004. Not enough experience in key places.

A minor thing really, I pretty much think you nailed it on the Fire Everyone Now crowd though.
 
Well, Herv, since we're splitting hairs, do you mind elaborating a little more with "the Texans simply lacked the head/heart of a playoff team in 2004"?

It just gives the impression that you're saying that they aren't trying hard enough, and if that's the case, I disagree.
 
hmmm would this be strange if i was to say i think our defense is better than our offense ???? And i agree with herv, they just dont seem to be giving 100% ALL THE TIME. We are a few draft picks and FA away from beign a play-off team.
 
Marcus said:
Well, Herv, since we're splitting hairs, do you mind elaborating a little more with "the Texans simply lacked the head/heart of a playoff team in 2004"?

It just gives the impression that you're saying that they aren't trying hard enough, and if that's the case, I disagree.
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Well, maybe head/heart wasn't exactly the best way for me to put it.

What they're lacking I think is the knowledge and experience (the "head") that they need to exploit their talent to the fullest. Experience is just time here. Well spent time really and David Carr being pounded into a little Steel Blue lump of "ouch" wasn't what I'd call well spent time.

I have no doubt they're trying but the understanding of exactly how much you have to try in order to win at this level consistently is something a lot of our young guys don't have. First, second, and third year players (not to put that out as an excuse or anything like that) with no real success yet in the NFL don't yet have a grasp of how much desire you need to make that success happen. The veterans have it in many cases and they can tell the young guys what you need to do but that alone won't make it happen. The light bulb has to come on before they can really be that playoff team we're talking about. That's what I meant by "heart".
 
TexansTrueFan said:
hmmm would this be strange if i was to say i think our defense is better than our offense ???? And i agree with herv, they just dont seem to be giving 100% ALL THE TIME. We are a few draft picks and FA away from beign a play-off team.
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Don't agree with me on that because that's really not what I meant. I think they're trying 100% all the time. I don't think they want to go out there and be embarrassed by other teams at all. The frustration bubbling up lately from their locker room shows me that they aren't happy with the way things have been turning out.

They don't yet know how to be that team but a lot of the pieces are in place. A lot of the guys we're complaining about off and on now are going to be good players. Seth Wand I believe is going to be a very good LT some day. He's got learning to do of course just like a lot of our young guys but he's going to be better. David Carr is going to be better. Andre Johnson is going to be better (man isn't that scary). They have the bodies with the physical abillity to do these things. They don't have the knowledge, experience, and trust in each other yet to get it done. What they need isn't a whole bunch of better players (some would be nice here and there but that's a different subject). Most of the players are in place and good enough to go beat people.
 
Ok, here are some of my ideas to beat this kryptonite II.

1) Occasionally drop AJ into the slot. If they want their CBs on the outside with their safeties backed up really far, let them cover Bradford/Gaffney/Armstrong with double coverage all day, we'll let Andre have his way with nickel backs and linebackers.

- If they move a starting CB over to the slot for Andre, that leaves someone on the outside with a nickel and maybe a safety. In that case, Andre is single covered.

- If the safety moves up a little for Andre, whoever is on the outside is going to be single covered.

Another thing. When Davis is going out for a short pattern (like in the flat) have Bruener do a short slant to the outside so Davis has blocking in front of him. The WR should take care of the CB and S in their C2, and that leaves 3 linebackers to get to Davis, the first of which would hopefully be picked up by Bruener. By the time they get Davis, he should be a little ways down the field.

I think this is the game, that although their scheme is designed to stop deep passing, will be the game we force our Will upon the opponent.

Here's the the main difference to me between this game and last games cover 2. Indy can afford to sit back in a cover 2 all day letting us get down the field because they knew their offense could make up for whatever we managed to accomplish. The Bears though are possibly the worst offense in the league, and can't rely on Hutch and Co. to score a bunch of points. In fact, I see our defense getting a score in this game.

I never do predictions since I usually feel like I'm jinxing the team, but I'll go out on a limb here.

Texans 21, Bears 10.
 
Marcus said:
Pardon me while I repeat that.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Pardon me while I repeat that again.

Say AJ doesn't catch it and the safety picks it off, 99% of you would be on here raising hell about Carr's bad decision making and how he is forcing it to AJ.

Anyone listening?
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..not to worry, we are not a team known for 'trying' something to work--
we just don't try--less complaints that way, course more losses,too, but-hey-
anybody listening??? It's only our 3rd year...then our 4th yr...then our 5th
year...on and on :bguitar:
 
Just in case anyone is wondering.

When I'm watching the game, and I see Carr dropping back for a pass, either from a straight drop or off a play-action, and I see him looking downfield . . . I can actually hear myself (along with my wife) muttering out loud ....

"Throw it Carr! Throw it, THROW IT! THROW IT, *********, THROW IT!"

... and then he either dumps it to DD, scrambles, or gets sacked.

Yeah, it frustrates me to no end to watch that over, and over again.

But then sometimes I wonder how frustrating that is to Carr. :hmmm:
 
I do that too Marcus. Lol. But, the tv doesn't show us the downfield coverage. There are times when a risky pass is ok though, and can substitute for a punt. If we are near midfield and Andre is doubled, but it's either chuck it up, take a sack, or maybe throw it away, why not give your playmaker a chance to actually make a play? It worked early on, and they have totally gone away from that.

Hey, good stuff ledzepplin. Certainly interesting food for thought. :hmmm:
 
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