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Chron : Carr still in Texans 07 plans .... sort of

U4ikrob

U4ikrob

Guitar Junky
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/4575330.html

More fuel for the fire. Its clear that the Texans brass are shopping DC, but only for the right price it seems. If nothing else it sounds like they realize the value in hand, but on the other hand it sounds like they are also actively seeking a deal too. :stirpot:

Feb. 23, 2007, 12:28AM
Carr still in Texans' '07 plans ... sort of
GM considers QB the starter but won't pass on deal

David Carr remains the Texans' starting quarterback, but GM Rick Smith made it clear Thursday that the team will do whatever it takes to improve before next season. And that includes trading the five-year veteran if the right deal comes along.

INDIANAPOLIS - Texans general manage Rick Smith said David Carr is the Texans starting quarterback, but he put an unsolicited qualifier onto those statements ... for now.

"Right now? Yes. He is our starting quarterback, and we're excited about him improving in this offense," Smith said Thursday at the NFL draft combine.

But does "right now" infer that he is going to be traded?

"That's the truth," Smith said. "I'm saying that that is a possibility.

"Stars have to line up correctly and the value has to be there, but we're going to improve our football team anyway that we can do so.

"If that includes some type of trade, then we'll entertain that. That does not mean that we're going to do that absolutely, but we'll entertain it. If I'm saying right now and you draw an inference (that Carr might be traded) from that, then you are correct."
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I know alot of people are all about "get rid of DC for whatever price". But I am glad that Rick is being smart about it. The QB position is a problem, no doubt, but it's not our biggest problem. David has proven that he can at least manage a game, and with an improved defense & OL, I think we will win regardless.

Our FA money is better spent on UPGRADING the team. Plummer is a sideways move. Use that money on the run game, OL, and D.

Do that and we'll win baby!!!

:fans:
 
U4ikrob said:
Kubiak, who is starting his second year as the head coach, is not concerned that Carr's confidence might take a hit due to the uncertainty.

"If you're going to play in this league, especially if you're going to play quarterback, you got to have some tough skin," Kubiak said. "If you're going to be a great quarterback in this league and be one of the top five in this league, you're there every week and playing well every week.

"It's about consistency with David, and it's my job to get him there."

Kubiak was asked if he thought Carr was capable of being among the top five quarterbacks in the game.

"I think he has the ability to do that," Kubiak said. "He is a very skilled young man, a very smart young man. But it is about consistency.

"That's my job to figure that out and find that consistency in him as a quarterback because our team was inconsistent. The more consistent I can get him, I think our team will become more consistent."
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I do not belive a word he is saying in this article. This sounds more like a HS football coach than a NFL one. Carr is a five year pro and Kubiak has 52 other players to coach, many who contributed a lot more to our incremental gains in the win column last year while making less money.
 
People in SD were ready to run Drew Brees out of town before he "figured it out". I for one hope that if Carr is still here, we see a similar situation.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I do not belive a word he is saying in this article. This sounds more like a HS football coach than a NFL one. Carr is a five year pro and Kubiak has 52 other players to coach, many who contributed a lot more to our incremental gains in the win column last year while making less money.
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What he says is true. Most of the talent around the league is largely a push. The difference in a team that can compete at a .500 or better level is the team that has a QB that can make a play on 3rd down so that they can keep all their efforts alive. The difference between Carr the losing QB and Carr the franchise QB is his ability to make plays, not his ability to be a shrinking violet when the pressure is on. Everyone knows he can hit the 3 yard laser strike but he doesn't have an intermediate passing game so on 3rd and any distance at all teams just shut us down...trot out Stanley.
 
I hit enter too soon...

anyway, finishing my thought is simple. I don't think they give Carr away for wood and rocks. I think Kubiak honestly thinks he can play and will be able to convert those passes I say he can't make, so I believe him and think he is being honest about this.
 
Vinny said:
I hit enter too soon...

anyway, finishing my thought is simple. I don't think they give Carr away for wood and rocks. I think Kubiak honestly thinks he can play and will be able to convert those passes I say he can't make, so I believe him and think he is being honest about this.
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so what trumps what situation--the FO's ability to get fair value, or Kubiak's ability to rehab Carr's game?
 
This is just posturing in the media, IMHO...Rick trying to get the best return that he can for David, he's not going to come out and say that "Carr is gone, regardless of what we're offered".

I also don't think they can bring Carr back...after actively shopping him they're essentially saying that they don't believe he will lead this team to the playoffs. I don't think they can pretend like this didn't happen and pretend like they still have confidence in him come September.

You can do that with other players, I just don't think you can do that to the QB who is supposed to be your leader.
 
dirty steve said:
so what trumps what situation--the FO's ability to get fair value, or Kubiak's ability to rehab Carr's game?
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I don't think we are in a panic to move him but I'd bet the offers for Carr were light early on since the open speculation is that we are moving him. Everyone rushes to see if they can get something for nothing and most of them found out that Casserly doesn't live here anymore. Also, I'm sure Kubiak wants to be able to tell Bob he got David where he told him he could get him when he took the job....so there is some of that mixed into this imo.
 
IMO, the seriouse offers will come in about draft time. Until then, we are getting enquires from teams that are looking to get a steal if we are willing to toss Carr out for little or nothing. Rick is setting the market and Kubes is saying we are willing and perhaps expecting to go into the season with Carr at the controlls. However, if you make an good offer we are willing to listen. These guys are all about making the club better, no matter what position or where. I suspect that they don't see Carr as the "Most need" postition, but a need position none the less, and if they can get value AND have a means of improving the team, they will pull the trigger.
 
qtab said:
This is just posturing in the media, IMHO...Rick trying to get the best return that he can for David, he's not going to come out and say that "Carr is gone, regardless of what we're offered".

I also don't think they can bring Carr back...after actively shopping him they're essentially saying that they don't believe he will lead this team to the playoffs. I don't think they can pretend like this didn't happen and pretend like they still have confidence in him come September.

You can do that with other players, I just don't think you can do that to the QB who is supposed to be your leader.
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If the Texans believe there is not a better solution to DC, Carr will be back regardless. I think it boils down if one more year in offense under Kubes will put DC where he can be productive.
 
edo783 said:
IMO, the seriouse offers will come in about draft time.
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The Texans can't go that long before they settle the QB situation. They either bring in Plummer and deal Carr in the next couple of weeks. Or stick with David, let Sage compete for the starting job in camp, and draft another QB at some point.

I don't really don't know what to think about Smith & Kubiak's recent statements. To me, they're being coy about Carr's future here in an attempt to drive up his trade value. That's not going to work. Carr's value is what it is. Frankly, I think David had more value after the '05 debacle of the season. At least then, teams could point to Carr's horrible offensive system and o-line as excuses. Now, these same teams saw David regress as the season went on while working with a top QB coach in Kubiak. As Carr regressed, so did his trade value. Unless Casserly gets a GM job soon, their will be no draft pick bonanza for David Carr.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans can't go that long before they settle the QB situation. They either bring in Plummer and deal Carr in the next couple of weeks. Or stick with David, let Sage compete for the starting job in camp, and draft another QB at some point.
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The smart thing, would be to wait it out. It's not a big deal to us if Jake comes to play for Houston or not. I think it means more to Jake. I think it's more important to Denver to move up in this draft to get a stud DT/DE, than it is for us to not use that pick on Levi or Landry.

Jake can refuse to go to Oakland(which I think he will, just to play with Kubiak), and force Denver to sweeten the pot, if they want our #8 pick.

We can wait till June 1st, when Denver will have to cut Jake, because of the money(unless Jake is willing to take a back-up's pay), we can get Jake & Keep our #8. So I think Denver will be more itchy to get something done.

one caveat.... if we don't take the rumored trade firsts+Plummer+Bell+Denver's 3rd... I think Minnesota would. They'll start Jake until TJ is ready, they'll split carries with Taylor & Bell, then they'll move up with Denver's first & third, to get Gin/Garrett at 18 or something.
Lucky said:
I don't really don't know what to think about Smith & Kubiak's recent statements. To me, they're being coy about Carr's future here in an attempt to drive up his trade value. That's not going to work. Carr's value is what it is. Frankly, I think David had more value after the '05 debacle of the season. At least then, teams could point to Carr's horrible offensive system and o-line as excuses. Now, these same teams saw David regress as the season went on while working with a top QB coach in Kubiak. As Carr regressed, so did his trade value. Unless Casserly gets a GM job soon, their will be no draft pick bonanza for David Carr.
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This years free agent QB class is pretty weak... Garcia is the prize....... we could probably still get a third, especially if Jake is thought to be off the market.
 
ROCKY said:
I know alot of people are all about "get rid of DC for whatever price". But I am glad that Rick is being smart about it. The QB position is a problem, no doubt, but it's not our biggest problem. David has proven that he can at least manage a game, and with an improved defense & OL, I think we will win regardless.

Our FA money is better spent on UPGRADING the team. Plummer is a sideways move. Use that money on the run game, OL, and D.

Do that and we'll win baby!!!

:fans:
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Who-besides David-has started since day one? Upgrade...but leave the QB alone and we'll win?

The Texans are on record as the losingest expansion team after 5 years, worse than even the Bucs and Saints--remember them and thought they were bad! We're worse...and you want to stick with David? OK.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans can't go that long before they settle the QB situation. They either bring in Plummer and deal Carr in the next couple of weeks. Or stick with David, let Sage compete for the starting job in camp, and draft another QB at some point.

I don't really don't know what to think about Smith & Kubiak's recent statements. To me, they're being coy about Carr's future here in an attempt to drive up his trade value. That's not going to work. Carr's value is what it is. Frankly, I think David had more value after the '05 debacle of the season. At least then, teams could point to Carr's horrible offensive system and o-line as excuses. Now, these same teams saw David regress as the season went on while working with a top QB coach in Kubiak. As Carr regressed, so did his trade value. Unless Casserly gets a GM job soon, their will be no draft pick bonanza for David Carr.
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Why I disagree with you here is one reason. Come DURING the draft, if the QB's start getting picked up quickly (in other words, if 3-4 QB's or more (I dont see more) go in the first round) imo, then some teams will be scrambling for them. This is where quick thought deals of teams that need a backup or starter can really bump a Carr's stock to maybe a second or a very high 3rd. Of course, this could backfire if QB's are not in high demand but I believe they (the texans) are of the mind right now that Carr is on a teater board and he could go either way and the Texans would be fine with it.
 
David has definitely been part of the problem, but I don't think making a bad deal to get rid of him is going to help us. We still need to solve a lot of other problems, but not necessarily before or after that. Anything we do that even partially and temporarily solves the problem at QB could cost us the chance to draft:

CB
S
OLT
C
OLB
G
or MAYBE even Adrianne P.

I don't think that letting David stay for one more year is such a bad thing in the long run--and it wouldn't kill us to even let him finish his contract, if it means getting everything else in place to be ready for his eventual replacement.

I still think Carr can outplay what will probably be offered for him, but I sure wouldn't give him any more contracts (understatement of the year).

I can't get into the details of what trade is really worth it or not. I just don't follow other teams that much.
 
Vinny said:
Everyone knows he can hit the 3 yard laser strike but he doesn't have an intermediate passing game so on 3rd and any distance at all teams just shut us down...trot out Stanley.
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yeah, he's King of the 3 yard laser strike...get three of those and you get...4th and 1... :winky:

If we stick with Carr, let's hope we can 1) upgrade our defense (big time), 2) get a consistent starting RB, 3) upgrade the o-line, 4) a much better punter.

These parts of the team can make up where a decent QB leaves off. Carr's main focus will be to not lose games with his own mistakes, and then try to be a good game manager. We'll need a team that can seal the deal with a QB that won't be able to march us down the field for a victory in the two minute warning. It's quite possible to have a winning season with this forumula...so let's go defense at #8!
 
thunderkyss said:
We can wait till June 1st, when Denver will have to cut Jake
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The Broncos can cut Plummer prior to June 1st, and still see that cap relief.

Dime said:
Why I disagree with you here is one reason. Come DURING the draft...
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OK, backup a little bit. If the Texans still have Carr as of the draft, that means they don't have Plummer. And unless the Texans are selecting Russell or Quinn in the draft, they won't trade David Carr.

Now if the Texans do have Carr at the time of the draft AND take a QB in the 1st round, then I could see them dealing Carr. Probably for a conditional '08 pick. That's pretty far-fetched, but possible.
 
NATHANHALE said:
Who-besides David-has started since day one? Upgrade...but leave the QB alone and we'll win?

The Texans are on record as the losingest expansion team after 5 years, worse than even the Bucs and Saints--remember them and thought they were bad! We're worse...and you want to stick with David? OK.
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I dont care about the bucs or saints. It is'nt a black and white situation here, there are shades of grey. I said in my original post that the QB position was a problem, ALL IM SAYING IS THAT A QB UPGRADE ALONE WONT GET IT DONE!

Whereas if we use all the money that jake is going to want, and use it on getting help at the other positions, we will win. If we could get a legit upgrade at QB, that would be cool, but look at the market....There's no-one who is a clear upgrade from david.

But there are FAs out there who are clear upgrades (ex: Nate Clements over Petey Faggins). You anti david guys are'nt seeing the big picture, he is'nt our biggest problem. I agree with trading him for a good value, but dont give him away because some of the fans are bitter, thats stupid.
 
I would'nt get to high or to down about anything until something actually happens .

When Kubiak or Smith say something it could be true or they could be trying to wheel and deal ... who knows .

I will lose some interest after the draft if Carr's back ... it would be like watching a bad movie 50 times .
 
NATHANHALE said:
The Texans are on record as the losingest expansion team after 5 years, worse than even the Bucs and Saints--remember them and thought they were bad! We're worse...
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No.

Team - Winning percentage - (Record first 5 yrs.)

1. New Orleans Saints - .273 - (18-48-4)
2. Dallas Cowboys - .281 - (18-46-4)
3. Tampa Bay Bucs - .293 - (22-53-1)
4. Houston Texans - .300 - (24-56)
5. Minnesota Vikings - .373 - (25-42-3)
 
My fear with Carr is this "What happens if we build a better team and Carr is still the QB?"

If you didn't know, I am not a Carr fan (as if I have to tell ya'll this).

Right now I would say that we are at the bottom of the league in terms of pure talent. I think we have a couple of good young players (Ryans, Daniels, AJ) but overall, we are just not very talented.

Now lets move forward two years. The Texans have had two more outstanding drafts as we did in 2006. Smith has done some wheeling and dealing and picked up some good free agents. This team is starting to look good. The team has gone 7-9 in '07 and 9-7 in '08, but missed the playoff. David during this time has played his usual game, in which he has shown flashes of brilliance amongst his usual mediocrity (mediocre is a nice way to describe his play).

David's contract is up for renewal. We have all the pieces in place. Now what?

Do we push forward? Praying that David doesn't screw it up too bad. We would be the today Bears. Who was fortunate (lucky) enough to get to the SB, and then got spanked by the Colts. Also, remember, we don't play in the NFC either. Basically, if the Bears were in the AFC, they would not have gotten as far as they did in the playoffs.

Do we now go and get a veteran QB? What if no one's available? With the exception of Garcia, I don't see a lot of QB talent out there right now. So not having anyone available is a distinct possibility. Also, FA QBs can cost a bundle of cash and create dissention on a team quickly.

Do we go with a rookie? I think everybody would agree that Pittsburg got real lucky when the took Rothlesburger(sp?) to the SB a couple of years ago. Could we get that lucky too? I don't want to run that risk.

The time to ditch Carr was last year. The Texans didn't do it (don't get me started). The longer the Texans wait to ditch David, the harder it’s going to be.

If we don't get rid of Carr now, the Texans could be mediocre for years and years to come.
 
Arky said:
No.

Team - Winning percentage - (Record first 5 yrs.)

1. New Orleans Saints - .273 - (18-48-4)
2. Dallas Cowboys - .281 - (18-46-4)
3. Tampa Bay Bucs - .293 - (22-53-1)
4. Houston Texans - .300 - (24-56)
5. Minnesota Vikings - .373 - (25-42-3)
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He may have been referring to the total amount of losses.
 
Arky said:
No.

Team - Winning percentage - (Record first 5 yrs.)

1. New Orleans Saints - .273 - (18-48-4)
2. Dallas Cowboys - .281 - (18-46-4)
3. Tampa Bay Bucs - .293 - (22-53-1)
4. Houston Texans - .300 - (24-56)
5. Minnesota Vikings - .373 - (25-42-3)
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Not disputing your numbers.

But, two alarming stats, are the Texans still haven't had a winning season and never won more the two games in row (and I think they have only won two in a row 3 to 5 times). I believe all those teams above at least did better than that in their first 5 years at some point.

If they don't improve those stats, and quickly, they will be the worst franchise according to the stats above in the next year or so.
 
Arky said:
No.

Team - Winning percentage - (Record first 5 yrs.)

1. New Orleans Saints - .273 - (18-48-4)
2. Dallas Cowboys - .281 - (18-46-4)
3. Tampa Bay Bucs - .293 - (22-53-1)
4. Houston Texans - .300 - (24-56)
5. Minnesota Vikings - .373 - (25-42-3)
Click to expand...

This made me feel a lot better.... No, not because the Texans are 4th on the list, but more importantly that the 'Gurls are second on the list.... Saints and Bucs I could see..... but, ????
 
What's funny about the article is that David's not the guy anymore.

Rick Smith can "say" that he's the starting QB, and blah-blah-blah, but the he just said that if the "deal was right" he would pull the trigger.

1 + 1 = 2 every time.

If David makes the team better, then we don't even "entertain" the offers.

The Colts are not shopping Peyton Manning "for the right deal" as Rick Smith is with David Carr.

And here's my thinking on all of this trade talk: At some point, it's going to sink into David Carr's head that he does NOT have the full support of the front office (Rick Smith). I wonder if Kubiak is still hanging onto a thread of hope with DC...and Rick Smith is pushing Kubiak to cut him loose. Gotta' remember that at the end of the day, the GM and the head coach have to agree on this sort of decision--Look at how much Casserly did to get Dom Capers' whatever Dom wanted, even though Casserly advised against some of Dom's hairbrained ideas. It's part of the gig (to work with one another, even if you don't see eye-to-eye), and I wonder if maybe Kubiak is the one who is holding the trade offers at arm's length...making Rick Smith get the "right deal" as Rick has said.

IMO, Kubiak is holding all the cards right now.

And I think he's going to be patient and wait this whole ordeal out until the draft or shortly thereafter. I don't think we'll see a transaction involving David until draft day, just before draft day, or after draft day.

More things have to work themselves out between now and then, IMO.

Despite how Rick Smith is trying to gloss this over, there is definitely tension in the Texans organization over DC. You can cut the tension with a knife, IMO.
 
Vinny said:
My coffee was too strong this morning....too much early coffee
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You know vinny I really don't mind your posts. They are fair. You honestly have this opinion and back it up with what you've seen. I really don't know if the quotes coming out of the combine are coach speak or not. I just hate giving up on him. I don't think starting over is as easy or without reprocussions as some are making it out to be. It's going to be painfull. My main arguement is the guy needs and has needed the rock at OLT. I could be dead wrong. He's got so many deamons running through his brain he might not be salvageable. But I hate giving up on him.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
What's funny about the article is that David's not the guy anymore.

Rick Smith can "say" that he's the starting QB, and blah-blah-blah, but the he just said that if the "deal was right" he would pull the trigger.

1 + 1 = 2 every time.

If David makes the team better, then we don't even "entertain" the offers.

The Colts are not shopping Peyton Manning "for the right deal" as Rick Smith is with David Carr.

And here's my thinking on all of this trade talk: At some point, it's going to sink into David Carr's head that he does NOT have the full support of the front office (Rick Smith). I wonder if Kubiak is still hanging onto a thread of hope with DC...and Rick Smith is pushing Kubiak to cut him loose. Gotta' remember that at the end of the day, the GM and the head coach have to agree on this sort of decision--Look at how much Casserly did to get Dom Capers' whatever Dom wanted, even though Casserly advised against some of Dom's hairbrained ideas. It's part of the gig (to work with one another, even if you don't see eye-to-eye), and I wonder if maybe Kubiak is the one who is holding the trade offers at arm's length...making Rick Smith get the "right deal" as Rick has said.

IMO, Kubiak is holding all the cards right now.

And I think he's going to be patient and wait this whole ordeal out until the draft or shortly thereafter. I don't think we'll see a transaction involving David until draft day, just before draft day, or after draft day.

More things have to work themselves out between now and then, IMO.

Despite how Rick Smith is trying to gloss this over, there is definitely tension in the Texans organization over DC. You can cut the tension with a knife, IMO.
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I'd be willing to bet that they have talked to David and he knows exactly what they will or will not do, and what the game plan is either way. I think they, Kubiak at least, are pretty straight shooters.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Not disputing your numbers.

But, two alarming stats, are the Texans still haven't had a winning season and never won more the two games in row (and I think they have only won two in a row 3 to 5 times). I believe all those teams above at least did better than that in their first 5 years at some point.
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Nope. Only Tampa Bay and Minnesota had a season w/winning records in the first 5 years.

Also, with "losingest expansion team after 5 years" you have to look at the winning percentage due to the fact that most of these teams were playing 14 game seasons (or in the case of Dallas, one 12 game season). Had the poster said "most losses", then that would be correct.
 
I still have the same problem with the team, one of the worst Defenses in the NFL and a middle of the road Offense, and fans that want to blame the offense. What's worse is Rick Smith fueling the fire. Down the road is Rick going to sell Kubiak down the river just like Aj did to Schotiheimer in San Diego ? Carr needs to improve, BUT, as the Colts should this year until the defense shows up we are not a SB team. When I look at the draft I believe that there are more then enough good D-linemen to go around, and what appears to be a pretty stong CB/FS crop for the first two rounds, and that will be the best place to help the team, that and picking up another FA from the Ravens to play next to Weaver.
 
Texanfan4ever said:
I'd be willing to bet that they have talked to David and he knows exactly what they will or will not do, and what the game plan is either way. I think they, Kubiak at least, are pretty straight shooters.
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If I was DC & had been told I would not be back, I'd be on vacation somewhere spending as many of my millions as I could.
 
Texanfan4ever said:
I'd be willing to bet that they have talked to David and he knows exactly what they will or will not do, and what the game plan is either way. I think they, Kubiak at least, are pretty straight shooters.
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I agree. I believe everything Smith & Kubiak have said is straight up and honest. I think most are used to Casserly's used-car salesman schtick.

The media were the ones shopping Carr and got "the word" out. I think Smith just answered the phone and listened.... I bet most calls were just other GM's just checking....

It would have to be a mighty sweet deal - probably a preposterously sweet deal for anything to happen, IMO. And if it does happen, it will happen during the draft days...
 
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