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The word on the street..........

Hulk75

Hulk75

Veteran
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............
Lets keep in mind that he has not played with some of the best the NFL has to offer, Unlike Phillip Rivers who has had everything a young QB could want and more. I came across some pretty interesting stats. The running game was lifeless and the defense was suspect. I think we can all agree that he has not had the best of things. He has had 5 QB coaches, 4 Offensive coordinators, he has had 7 Left Tackles and not one has stayed healthy, pretty scary thing if you dont trust the guy thats suppossed to have your back, how comfortable.

Lets look at some numbers. Carr completed 68% of his passes, first in the NFL. He also tied a NFL record 22 completions in a row. In 6 games in the AFC South he completed 69.8%. In 8 home games he completed 71.9%. Also in 8 home games his QB rating was 94.6. In 6 Division games his QB rating was 97.1. Carr had only 5 games were his QB rating was less then 86. Against the Super Bowl Champs, in 2 games Carrs QB rating was 126.4 with 4 tds and 0 ints and a strike at the end to set up the game winning FG. And the Texans QBed by David Carr was the last team to beat the Colts. He also had a 4th Q QB rating of 104.2 for the season, 2nd best in the NFL. Carr also was 3rd in the NFL in rushing for QBs. And he had the 6th fewest ints in the NFL, these are a few reasons why 15 teams have called the Texans to get a hold of your son-brother-husband.
Click to expand...

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish for
jakebird.jpg
 
Hulk75 said:
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish for
jakebird.jpg
Click to expand...

Hulk, if you loved your brother and wanted him to be successful then you would not want him to go to the Raiders. I cringe at the thought.

Oakland would finish what Houston started.
 
I think he gets a raw deal as well. I think all the years of getting pounded into the ground makes him feel pressure way too early and he gets anxious and makes bad decisions.

Trust me he's not the worst starter in the league i rather him than Jake "Flip The Bird "Plummer. If he was in the right situation i think he could flourish but i feel it probably wont be us.
 
Thanks for sharing that Hulk.

I am in the "get Carr out of here" camp.. but ive always tried to make sure than when I am advocating for his relocation, that I always point out 3 things.

1) That Carr is a great guy, with a great personality. I have nothing against him and respect him for the type of person he is, and has remained to be under this pressure.

2) That I dont think it is a lack of ability, but a lack of results and trust that is behind Carr needing to go to another team. I just think that we have been a losing team for too long under Carr, and that is turning into our team's image. We need change.

3) That I think Carr could go to another team and be very successful. I think Carr needs a change of scenery as much as the Texans need a different face at QB. I actually EXPECT to see Carr succeed elsewhere, and had already planned to make a post once he was traded, explaining that even though I agree with the move, I want to make it clear that I think Carr will be a great QB for someone, and that I think he would never have been able to reach that level with us.


My reasoning behind trading Carr is not that he is a bad QB, its that he is a QB with bad habits. He got those bad habits from playing under a poor coaching staff (Capers) that didnt know how to protect him. As long as Carr is here, I think it is going to stunt his growth, and the Texans growth. We need someone at QB that is steady and calm.. we need a leader that the rest of the offense can trust. Carr, after 5 years of losing, cant do that for us (imo). While Carr, he needs to go to a team that is established, and can provide him with some comfort and a fresh start where he doesnt have a black cloud hanging over his head. Hes not gonna be "the guy who may be a bust, who cannot quit making mistakes".. hes gonna be "the guy that came from a team that never used him right, and who has a huge amount of potential".

The fans will be supporting him again, the team will have faith in him.. and I think it could bring Carr a new level of confidence, and maybe that will be enough to drag him out of this rut, and get him to the next level.


Anyway.. I like Carr.. and I like the Carr family. I hate that Carr had to spend his first years in the league getting hammered under an inept coaching staff. And I hope there wont be any bad blood between the Carr's and the Houston fans. Sure there are some bad eggs..but there are alot of passionate supporters as well.
 
I think david should get a fresh start somewhere. His time has run out here in houston and that's not the fault of david. This organization never game him a chance and while it's not all his fault, he is the face of the franchise. I remember in the early to mid 80's when the oilers were drafting lineman at the top of the draft. They had ads something along the line of a solid foundation and had all these top pics on billboards. Success soon followed and two of those lineman are in the hall of fame. The texans never built the foundation needed for success and david suffered from this mistake. That being said, he is getting paid really well and i can't feel sorry for someone making that kind of money. I will not trash him, but he is a big man making tons of money. He will be fine and so will the texans.
 
I think it would be best for both sides, Carr and the Texans, for Carr to go. Mainly for Carr though. I think he needs a new start with some time to clear his head. The guys mentally beat up. I tip my hat to him for staying around like he has. I would have lost it a LONG time ago. I probably would've told the coach, "look you either get me a line that can block or I'm calling a running play every down." I really do wish him the best.
 
:highfive:


Hulk75 said:
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish for
jakebird.jpg
Click to expand...
 
RTP2110 said:
Just one question for ya Hulk, does David even WANT to remain with the Texans?
Click to expand...
That’s a legitimate question. If anyone knows how David feels on this subject, it you.

The Texans are at least 2 years away from being any good. Particularly on the line.

David has to knows he's going to get hammered some more by the opposing team, the media, and the fans.
 
Wharton said:
That’s a legitimate question. If anyone knows how David feels on this subject, it you.

The Texans are at least 2 years away from being any good. Particularly on the line.

David has to knows he's going to get hammered some more by the opposing team, the media, and the fans.
Click to expand...

The silence from Hulk on this question is defining. He does not answer that particular question.

I would have to speculate no. If it were a yes then it would not be a big deal to answer. Now if its a no, and it got out, that would be another story.
 
Hulk75 said:
This is the repor around the league of Carr, a person has done some research for us and has asked MANY people around the league QBs, MLBs and Coaches what they think about David. This guy we have meet a couple of times and he was nice enough to do this for us, and I descided to share it with you. Jason Taylor even dropped a , "Get him out of there", to this guy we know. He has found that Carr is highly respected around the NFL, and that MANY feel he has had a bad deal here in Houston. Anyways this is what he told us...........
Quotes on what he told us.............

I took the time to share with you, I will not no matter what happens let his name be dragged through the mud. Its not all, I respect many of you and know there are a lot of ham and eggers and Ice Cream sales men around here and they dont bother me, it is how people are just running this guy out of town with out even a thanks for what you could do while you were here and what you had to work with, how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again. Is he or was he perfect NO, who was on this team this year? I know how th QB gets treated I have been here for a while, you loose its your fault, you win its not........People talk about leadership what more do you want Texan Players then for a guy to take all your miss happs all the times you got burnt, all the losses, all the sacks all THE FREAKIN BLAME on his sholders and NEVER COMPLAINED 1 time, everything that was bad for the last 6 years have been because of Carr, thats not being a teammate(yea I said it) the guy would break his neck for you and all he gets is SILENCE, nobody backing him up.
Big ups to my guy Steve McKinney and Zach Wiegert atleast they know how it is and stand up for him in the media.

Anyways if you dont like the guy fine, but he desirves a little respect for taking your team from DAY 1 and doing what he could, I will tell you he played his but off every down and every game that he was in there, but it is not enough if you dont have the tools around you and thats why these teams are after him.

Anyways if you have a brother you know where I am comming from, you got his back and you never lie to him, if he does something wrong you tell him, your his biggest crtic, IF HE SUCKED I would tell him just get on a team and back up, its not worth getting beat down. But he can play, and I will not waiver from it, untill he gets some guys around him that can play NOT just Guys like Andre, then I will countinue to fight for him.

Hey anyways please keep the CRAP to a minumum, if you dont want to write dont, just leave it alone. No shots at anyone on here, this is just how I feel and apperently so do the other teams from what I have heard.

Thanks fellas!

Just be carefull what some of you wish for
jakebird.jpg
Click to expand...

Your brother is or was, or whatever, paid millions of dollars by the Houston Texans.

No one is supposed to give him respect or anything else. He suppose to win games. If he needed all this help to be successful, then he never should have been drafted by the Texans. What else was going to happen as an expansion team?

I understand your perspective and you are sticking up for your brother, but this board is not intended for the players and/or their famalies to stick their heads in a expect special treatment. This is like the fans locker room, if you will. The fans aren't allowed in the players locker room, and probably there should be something similiar here.

If Carr is traded or moves along somewhere else, we probably won't hear from you if one of two things happens:

1. Carr has a fantastic season and/or game;
2. Carr is the starting QB for a team that beats the Texans.

Most of the people on this board are going to be here a lot longer than David Carr will be QB for the Texans or you being a fan of the Texans. So, expecting special treatment is a bit much.

From everything I have read and seen of your brother, he is stand up guy. We have exchanged e-mails, and you also seem like a stand up guy.

But, most these criticisms of your brother is nothing personal. And it seems like you take it as so. As I said earlier, you are expecting people to have the appreciation of your brother when we have never met him or even said one word to him.

I have paid 5 years of season tickets out of my hard earned income. If I want to complain about David Carr or any other part of the organization (hmmm.... Bob McNair), then I will. By the way, if Carr is traded, someone else is going into the frying pan just like your brother and will be treated the same way. It's just how it works...

I wish you and your brother the best whatever happens. Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.
 
good posts both hulk and grid.

Hulk I think you make a great arguement for the drafting of Levi Brown or Joe Thomas somehow...in the 1st.
 
HULK man im sorry dude, but your brother just couldnt get it together. Like mentioned above this is a "what have u done for me lately" league. All biz, yes some fans take losses very painfully, just venting. Im one of them.Hulk bottem line, your brother should have rose above all the BS and rederick and made some NFL type plays. All about producing W's ! Just hope for the love of god he doesnt end up in oakland, ouch! :bubble: Good luck to you and your family though. Tell dave I said Thanks............... for nothin!!:ok:
 
That's it! Why is it, when DC is criticized, his brother is quick to attack! But when Hulk75 is upset, we have to be sympathetic and not offend?!
Listen Hulk75, DC is a public figure. Criticism (justified or not) comes with the territory of fame! He knows that, and so should you!
This is a forum! You have your opinions and so do I and others.
 
I have seen nothing from Carr that screams out potential, all I have seen and heard is excuses. He doesn't have great talent, but he doesn't create much, either.
 
Hulk75.... you're right. If he was my brother, I'd defend him to the end.

But he's not.

Funny thing though. I don't even want him gone... seriously, I don't. But I most definitely don't want him to start either.

Now as his brother, I can see how you'd think that would be a demotion. If that were my brother, or my Son, my Best friend, whatever. I'd want him on the bench, until the Texans can prove they fixed the line.

If they can't fix the line, but can find a QB who can produce with a less than perfect line, then hey..... good for us.

Bad for DAvid, because then he'll have to go find a new home somewhere else.

So that is the danger you'd face with that decision. But if you feel that David can't produce behind that line.... why do you want him behind that line?? If he thinks he can produce, then he needs to. Bottom line.

I don't blame everything on David. I don't blame any loss on David, or any one player for that matter. I blae most of the failures of this season on Gary Kubiak... sometimes, I don't understand what he was thinking.

In every game, he made some decisions that cost us the game. Of course he made some that kept us in games, but that's neither here nor there. Just so you know, I hold Kubiak more responsible for our losses than Carr, & I blame Kubiak for David's pitiful season.
 
profan said:
I think david should get a fresh start somewhere. His time has run out here in houston and that's not the fault of david. This organization never game him a chance and while it's not all his fault, he is the face of the franchise. I remember in the early to mid 80's when the oilers were drafting lineman at the top of the draft. They had ads something along the line of a solid foundation and had all these top pics on billboards. Success soon followed and two of those lineman are in the hall of fame. The texans never built the foundation needed for success and david suffered from this mistake. That being said, he is getting paid really well and i can't feel sorry for someone making that kind of money. I will not trash him, but he is a big man making tons of money. He will be fine and so will the texans.
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I totally agree with this guy.:ok: But I'm one of many that is tired of the EXCUSES everyone is putting out on DC. He plays like its high school football in Cali! NOOO more excuses. He is not getting the job done. I don't care what his stats are, there are better stats out there in Chicago than his. He gets paid more than Jenna Jameson to lay on his back and the NFL is still laughing about it.:secret: We need a change at QB and it should have started years ago.:pigfly:
 
hollywood_texan said:
Your brother is or was, or whatever, paid millions of dollars by the Houston Texans.

No one is supposed to give him respect or anything else. He suppose to win games. If he needed all this help to be successful, then he never should have been drafted by the Texans. What else was going to happen as an expansion team?

I understand your perspective and you are sticking up for your brother, but this board is not intended for the players and/or their famalies to stick their heads in a expect special treatment. This is like the fans locker room, if you will. The fans aren't allowed in the players locker room, and probably there should be something similiar here.

If Carr is traded or moves along somewhere else, we probably won't hear from you if one of two things happens:

1. Carr has a fantastic season and/or game;
2. Carr is the starting QB for a team that beats the Texans.

Most of the people on this board are going to be here a lot longer than David Carr will be QB for the Texans or you being a fan of the Texans. So, expecting special treatment is a bit much.

From everything I have read and seen of your brother, he is stand up guy. We have exchanged e-mails, and you also seem like a stand up guy.

But, most these criticisms of your brother is nothing personal. And it seems like you take it as so. As I said earlier, you are expecting people to have the appreciation of your brother when we have never met him or even said one word to him.

I have paid 5 years of season tickets out of my hard earned income. If I want to complain about David Carr or any other part of the organization (hmmm.... Bob McNair), then I will. By the way, if Carr is traded, someone else is going into the frying pan just like your brother and will be treated the same way. It's just how it works...

I wish you and your brother the best whatever happens. Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.
Click to expand...

It borders on criminal insanity to expect any QB to be successful behind as terrible an offensive line as the Texans have had. Until the Texans fix the O-line, you could clone Steve Young and put him behind that line and all you would end up with is a QB with a concussion.

By the way Hulk75, did David ever suffer a concussion during the 5 years of being pummelled by opposing defensive players? And, if so did he continue playing with it without telling anyone? I wouldn't doubt it because he is one tough QB.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Actually, I would like nothing better than Carr staying a Texan and becoming successful and proving all the critics wrong, even me.
Click to expand...

It's not even about wins or losses, or anything like that. I'd have been happy, if the guy who stuck his neck on the line was in his corner today.

But that guy, seems to me, has turned his back on him.

I could be reading it all wrong, but until I hear Kubiak say he's looking forward to working with David in '07, that's the way I'm going to take it.
 
I agree with everyone that Carr has been nothing less than stellar on a personal note in his time with the Texans. He's been through some really rough times, but has managed to maintain an optimistic outlook, as well as avoided calling out the team management through some periods where he was obviously getting a raw deal. I hope to see him become successful somewhere but I really don't think it will be here.

He still has all of the athletic attributes you look for in a stud QB, and he still has a good head on his shoulders, so I'm not surprised that's he's generating some interest, though I am skeptical as to how many of those 15 teams are seriously considering him as starter material.

That said, I have a hard time seeing DC go somewhere else and all of a sudden putting up noticeably better numbers/performances. He could go to a team with a solid OL, a good run game, and a defense that'll keep the ball in his hands and rack up alot of wins and a couple more touchdown passes, but I just don't see him undergoing some type of metamorphosis as a player.

One of my biggest qualms with Carr is that after 5 years of watching the guy, I'm convinced that he's a player who can run a play well with some consistency, but has difficulty "making" a play. You teach him the call, the play, the reads. He'll hike it, he'll look at his reads and then he'll throw/dump off/get sacked. He won't: evade pressure to give his guys time to get open; pump fake a defender; look off the safeties; improv with his receivers when everything's covered up. In short, our offense sputters unless Kubiak manages to keep the defense off-balance for an entire drive. If the play isn't there, David hasn't been able to become a creator during his time in the NFL. He's analogous to the running back who's good for 2 or 3 yards and a cloud of dust each time he touches the ball, but he's not going to bust a 20+ yarder on you. Carr's great at consistently doing the short stuff, but defenses are content to let him have at it because only when the planets properly align will you be able to sustain a drive that way until you hit pay dirt.

Anyways, like I said Carr's a great guy, and in the right circumstances he could help some team out there who needs a game managing QB a great deal.

P.S. In 5 years I don't think he's learned how to throw the ball over the middle. It's alot harder to keep the defense on their heels when you only use 50% of the field.
 
Jake Plummer is a mistake guys!! KEEP CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

You monday morning qbs!!


Mr. McNair please keep Carr!! I get a horrible feeling about Jake Plummer coming here..please keep Carr..


The Vince Young butt kissers dont know football if it hit them in the face. They are the butts on those ESPN commercials...proof; they honestly believe that Jake Plummer is going to do better than David Carr.

Why cant Carr get another year to show what he has? I honestly believe that he has something to prove to this Championshipless (football) city/ Bandwagon city...
 
thunderkyss said:
If they can't fix the line, but can find a QB who can produce with a less than perfect line, then hey..... good for us.
Click to expand...

I have seen this phrasing before and I don't like it because it implies that David Carr needs a perfect line to perform well, and that really is jumping to conclusions. The line he has played behind has been one of, if not the, worst O-line's in the history of the NFL and yet he has still statistically outperformed everyone's darling VY who by the way plays behind a better line than David Carr. All David Carr, or any other QB for that matter, needs is an average O-line.
 
New_Texans said:
Jake Plummer is a mistake guys!! KEEP CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!!

You monday morning qbs!!


Mr. McNair please keep Carr!! I get a horrible feeling about Jake Plummer coming here..please keep Carr..


The Vince Young butt kissers dont know football if it hit them in the face. They are the butts on those ESPN commercials...proof; they honestly believe that Jake Plummer is going to do better than David Carr.

Why cant Carr get another year to show what he has? I honestly believe that he has something to prove to this Championshipless (football) city/ Bandwagon city...
Click to expand...

Dude, do you SERIOUSLY think anyone is listening to us or gives a rat's !@# what we think? We're just fans. Fans that love our team and want it to win. And we all have wildly different opinions on what needs to be done for us to win. And all our opinions have about the same weight as... well... vacuum.

And, yes, a lot of us think that Plummer is an upgrade from Carr but some of us don't. Many of us think that Carr is the next Jim Everett, a QB with a ton of potential who took too many hits and couldn't get it done any more. But obviously there are at least 20-30 people posting on this MB that think that Carr can still pull it together and be a great QB given the right tools or one more chance or whatever.

For me, last year was my "last chance" year for him. I supported him up until last season and if I had seen some sort of improvement over the year, I'd still be supporting him. I didn't so I'm not.

If Carr is going to go or stay depends on Kubiak, Smith, and McNair and whether they think Carr will be able to perform and whether they can get something for him that will allow us to be a better team in the future. They're not Monday Morning QB's and their's are the most important opinions.
 
I'm not even sure what to say here..........

I've admittedly been a person that starting about a year and a half ago wanted Carr gone. It NEVER has been personal. Football isn't about being personal. It is about winning and doing what is best for your team. Just as players need to learn to win, so do the fans. People need to realize that the NFL isn't fair and that most QBs drafted, playing, etc wouldn't be in the league without some kind of talent. There have been a ton of guys who have fallen out of the collective NFL consciousness that have had a strong arm, that can make practice thows with a pocket, etc. The true test, bad or good team is what they do gametime and can you see a future in them. 5 years have passed...

Carr has failed, not in that he didn't take a hit or is taking the blame for being beat up. But he failed in continuing to improve despite the beatings. He failed in learning the basics. Everyone here says trust the coaches, etc and many coaches now, including the ones we are now trusting don't see the things that need to be seen. In the long run you want both parties, if they split, to succeed. But sometimes the nicest, strongest armed guys aren't always the best players. People should learn that a teams chmistry is more than coach speak and to me this move has been a long time coming. It weighs heavily on everyone involved. The burden needs to be lifted for all.

As for the Plummer debate. Despite what the Texans have done and his rep, the guy took one of the worst franchises in history, the Cards and won a playof game. He has won under Kubiak. These are things we have not seen. He will not be our savior but will be our step out of despair and into respectability while we groom another. Not only that but we may be upgrading in other areas at the same time. I'm sorry but we have been waiting and I see a light.

Good luck to all.
 
I'm not one of those people looking to Jake Plummer to rescue us. I don't think he'll be that much better than Carr. The only thing Plummer does well than Carr is throw that deep ball more frequently. But other than that there isn't much. As for Carr, I've been a supporter of his, but ever since that first Tennessee game this previous season I've been frustrated with him. I'm no football expert but even I can tell that his mechanics are screwed up and that he has no presence in the pocket. He makes too many mistakes and after a certain point if he's going to be the franchise qb he has to play like one regardless of the o-line situation. Even when DC had a good protection he made horrendous plays game after game. But even after all that said I would love to see DC be the guy rather than someone else who leads us to the playoffs. He's the no.1 pick in the history of our franchise and it would be awesome to see him lead this team to the playoffs. But all I ask from the Texans this offseason is that they bring some serious competition at that qb position this offseason. I don't if that means giving Rosenfels more opportunities or drafting a qb high. Whatever it is I want to see the Texans do something to push Carr to perform better.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Dude, do you SERIOUSLY think anyone is listening to us or gives a rat's !@# what we think? We're just fans. Fans that love our team and want it to win. And we all have wildly different opinions on what needs to be done for us to win. And all our opinions have about the same weight as... well... vacuum.

And, yes, a lot of us think that Plummer is an upgrade from Carr but some of us don't. Many of us think that Carr is the next Jim Everett, a QB with a ton of potential who took too many hits and couldn't get it done any more. But obviously there are at least 20-30 people posting on this MB that think that Carr can still pull it together and be a great QB given the right tools or one more chance or whatever.

For me, last year was my "last chance" year for him. I supported him up until last season and if I had seen some sort of improvement over the year, I'd still be supporting him. I didn't so I'm not.

If Carr is going to go or stay depends on Kubiak, Smith, and McNair and whether they think Carr will be able to perform and whether they can get something for him that will allow us to be a better team in the future. They're not Monday Morning QB's and their's are the most important opinions.
Click to expand...

Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.
 
New_Texans said:
Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.
Click to expand...

No, most of the blame was put on ownership/management's
decision-making! And they deserved it (at the time)!
 
Nawzer said:
I'm not one of those people looking to Jake Plummer to rescue us. I don't think he'll be that much better than Carr. The only thing Plummer does well than Carr is throw that deep ball more frequently. But other than that there isn't much. As for Carr, I've been a supporter of his, but ever since that first Tennessee game this previous season I've been frustrated with him. I'm no football expert but even I can tell that his mechanics are screwed up and that he has no presence in the pocket. He makes too many mistakes and after a certain point if he's going to be the franchise qb he has to play like one regardless of the o-line situation. Even when DC had a good protection he made horrendous plays game after game. But even after all that said I would love to see DC be the guy rather than someone else who leads us to the playoffs. He's the no.1 pick in the history of our franchise and it would be awesome to see him lead this team to the playoffs. But all I ask from the Texans this offseason is that they bring some serious competition at that qb position this offseason. I don't if that means giving Rosenfels more opportunities or drafting a qb high. Whatever it is I want to see the Texans do something to push Carr to perform better.
Click to expand...

David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.
 
Hulk75 said:
how about a little we understand, how about a little respect for a guy that has been knocked down 300+s times and ALWAYS got up knowing that he WAS going back down again.
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David gets all the credit in the world on that part, which is...a bum deal.

On other message boards topics arise like "Who's the toughest player in the NFL?"

Ray Lewis?
Brian Urlacher?

Nope, I always give credit to David because no matter how many beatings he took, he always got back up. I will always respect him for that.
 
New_Texans said:
Yes it was called Vince "Bandwagon" Young Syndrone. It caused all of Houstons media to turn on the Texans organization as a whole. Most of the blame was aimmed at the QB of course.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

Like quite a few of the Texan's fans on this MB, I'm not in Houston. I have no idea what the Houston media is saying and wouldn't care even if I was there. I never wanted Vince Young in a Texan's uniform and never expected to see him in one. So I don't care that we didn't draft him... although I was kinda ticked that the Titans beat us like a red-headed stepchild and DC seemed to fold like a deck of cards in the first game.

Before this season started, I wrote down exactly what I needed to see from Carr for me think he should continue as the Texans' QB and he didn't do the things I needed him to do. I defended him in this MB and defended that he should get this last year to show what he could do. He got the chance and didn't show us enough.
 
New_Texans said:
David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.
Click to expand...

No doubt that the Texans clearly don't have the talent in the offensive side of the ball compared to the Colts, Chargers, Bengals, etc. I will also concede the fact that learning the Kubiak/Denver style offense takes time but it does not excuse DC's poor play and decision making this past season. Just look at the Oakland and New England games. He was absolutely horrible. Even against Cleveland he didn't have a great game but the important thing is that we won so ultimately I will give DC some credit there. QB's get all the blame and all the glory but THAT is the nature of the position. It's not fair, and I think DC has been and always will be a standup guy. I too am not looking forward to a journeyman qb unless he somehow magically turns this team around singlehandedly. I've said this before that how can you expect Plummer to play better on our team when he got beat out by a rookie on a Denver team that had serious Superbowl aspirations? Clearly Denver and the Texans are not on the same level in terms of talent so I just don't see how Plummer will help us. Anyway, I just want to see some real competition next year at the qb position.
 
Nawzer said:
No doubt that the Texans clearly don't have the talent in the offensive side of the ball compared to the Colts, Chargers, Bengals, etc. I will also concede the fact that learning the Kubiak/Denver style offense takes time but it does not excuse DC's poor play and decision making this past season. Just look at the Oakland and New England games. He was absolutely horrible. Even against Cleveland he didn't have a great game but the important thing is that we won so ultimately I will give DC some credit there. QB's get all the blame and all the glory but THAT is the nature of the position. It's not fair and I think DC has been and always will be a standup guy. I too am not looking forward to a journeyman qb unless he somehow magically turns this team around singlehandedly. I've said this before that how can you expect Plummer to play better on our team when he got beat out by a rookie on a Denver team that has Superbowl aspirations? Clearly Denver and the Texans are not on the same level in terms of talent so I just don't see how Plummer will help us. Anyway, I just want to see some real competition next year at the qb position.
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Thats what I dont understand, why cant we keep Carr and have Plummer push him in Training Camp?
 
It will cost too much to keep Carr and Plummer. I don't know the exact numbers or what Plummer's salary is like but I don't think that's really an option. There's someone here who surely knows what the salary implications would be if we had both those guys on the team.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
What are you talking about?

Like quite a few of the Texan's fans on this MB, I'm not in Houston. I have no idea what the Houston media is saying and wouldn't care even if I was there. I never wanted Vince Young in a Texan's uniform and never expected to see him in one. So I don't care that we didn't draft him... although I was kinda ticked that the Titans beat us like a red-headed stepchild and DC seemed to fold like a deck of cards in the first game.

Before this season started, I wrote down exactly what I needed to see from Carr for me think he should continue as the Texans' QB and he didn't do the things I needed him to do. I defended him in this MB and defended that he should get this last year to show what he could do. He got the chance and didn't show us enough.
Click to expand...

He got his chance with a crap line (again) and fullbacks fumbling in games that the Texans were on the verge to winning. The Texans were close to 9-7 with a Inconsistent David Carr (who was in the 1st year of a supposedly complex offense). The Buffalo game was suppose to be a win along with the two games Jameel Cook fumbled the ball in the end to lose it. Too bad our defense has so many holes in it eh? They were at times unable to stop teams from scoring on them at crucial times.
 
New_Texans said:
David use to throw the deep ball all the time and it was a very pretty and accurate one at that. I dont believe the organization has given him the stability offensively to want him gone so badly. For instance, Peyton Manning credits his success to having the same offensive coach for most of his years. Peyton knows his offense like you know your favorite scene in a movie. David hasnt had that opportunity at all. Also, the reason Gary Kubiak came to Houston was to change that...he even said it wasnt going to take a year for that to happen. How can you guys already want David gone? Especially, after it seemed like for the second half of the season the Texans adapted a whole new offense of dump passes and the three step drop senario. The Texans never did bootlegs...and why you ask? Horrible running game..but thats Carr's fault too i assume. Gary lied to us, if he honestly didnt think he could fix Carr then he should have Drafted Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Now we may be stuck with a journeyman QB who was benched for Jay Cutler.
Click to expand...

Where to start... where to start...

David had the same OC for the first 3 years and the first few games into his 4th year.

David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

The running game and bad defense excuses don't hold water. We were getting sufficient yards from the running game for the most part and our defense was playing fairly well the last half of the season. The last two games are excellent examples. Our running game was working and our defense was doing it's job and DC looked bad.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.

And I'm sure Kubiak thought he could fix David. From the news bits we've heard, David makes the right reads and makes the right throws in practice and then when the game starts, he starts screwing up. He doesn't do in the games what he does in practice. And I think that's because he took so many hits early in his career that it's in his head. And I don't think that's something he can recover from.

If he had improved over the season, I'd be hoping for him to get this next year. But he got worse as the season went on.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Where to start... where to start...

David had the same OC for the first 3 years and the first few games into his 4th year.

David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

The running game and bad defense excuses don't hold water. We were getting sufficient yards from the running game for the most part and our defense was playing fairly well the last half of the season. The last two games are excellent examples. Our running game was working and our defense was doing it's job and DC looked bad.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.

And I'm sure Kubiak thought he could fix David. From the news bits we've heard, David makes the right reads and makes the right throws in practice and then when the game starts, he starts screwing up. He doesn't do in the games what he does in practice. And I think that's because he took so many hits early in his career that it's in his head. And I don't think that's something he can recover from.

If he had improved over the season, I'd be hoping for him to get this next year. But he got worse as the season went on.
Click to expand...

That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?
 
New_Texans said:
He got his chance with a crap line (again) and fullbacks fumbling in games that the Texans were on the verge to winning. The Texans were close to 9-7 with a Inconsistent David Carr (who was in the 1st year of a supposedly complex offense). The Buffalo game was suppose to be a win along with the two games Jameel Cook fumbled the ball in the end to lose it. Too bad our defense has so many holes in it eh? They were at times unable to stop teams from scoring on them at crucial times.
Click to expand...

In the Buffalo game, Carr ties a record for consecutive completions but can't generate points. On a third down in the 4th quarter, he just needed one more completion to break the record AND to win the game... and he threw behind his receiver incomplete. Yes, the defense SHOULD have stopped the Bills at that point and won the game for us but that doesn't change the fact that DC had the opportunity to win the game and he didn't step up.

Our defense, as bad as it is, stepped up in several games. We held the Giants to 14 points. We slowed down the Colts. They scored a TD against the Browns that pretty much ended that game; especially since they held the Browns to 6 points. Our D scored one of the TD's against the Bills that kept us in that game.

Our sucky defense and running game beat the Raiders. Carr had a net -5 yards throwing.

From the halfway point in the season, we only got blown out once. And a big part of that was Carr's 4 interceptions creating a short field for the Patriots. Other than that, our defense was keeping us in games.
 
New_Texans said:
That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?
Click to expand...

Just because Carr is traded doesn't mean Plummer will become the QB for the Texans.

I don't understand why you keep making that connection. Both are independent decisions.
 
New_Texans said:
That was when Ron Danye came in and played well, which was not for most of the season. The Texans run game was non-existent many games, and when they ran well the Texans won the games. This is why i dont understand the Texans reasoning for trading Carr. Im not expecting him to become John Elway and lead the team but he can play well with a run game. So, if he can when games by managing the teams offense--like he did for the last few games of the season--whats the point of bringing Jake Plummer in when he is going to be asked to do pretty much the same thing?
Click to expand...


The running game won the Raiders game, the Colts game, and the Brown's game. We got 188 yards against the Bills which was why we were in that game.

In the games where we had a good running game, Carr didn't play well. (Except for the Bills game, and then he didn't step up when we needed him.)

In the games where we didn't have a good running game, Carr didn't play well.

Hmmm...

IF Kubiak/Smith trade Carr it's because they think they can get more production out of the pick that they trade him for than they're getting from him. If Kubiak/Smith get Plummer (which they may or may not), it will be because they think they can get more production out of him than Carr.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
David USED to throw the deep ball. I don't think he can anymore. Now when he throws deep, it's a heave and a rainbow. I think he injured his shoulder a couple of years ago and I don't think it healed right.

But like you said, over the last half of the season David's production dropped off. He started taking the dump offs instead of looking further down the field. That wasn't because of the plays being run but because of the decisions that DC was making. It's exactly that drop in production starting with the first Titans game that soured me on David.
Click to expand...

Dave had 8 20+ yard strikes in SEP. Even if he had kept that up into DEC, that would have still left him with 32 20+ strikes.

Rookie Leinart has 35 in only 11 starts with a crappy line ( although better WRs ). 35 deep passes in his rookie year bests 4 of 5 in Carr's entire career.

I don't think the injury had much to do with it, if you are talking about the year he had to sit out a few games. The season right after that was his peak at 3500 yards and nearly 50 20+ yard passes.
 
I appreciate Hulk providing this viewpoint. It is refreshing.

Personally, I believe as far as QB changes fixing W-Ls, the Texans are closer to the QB changes that happened in Detroit, Miami, Oakland versus let's say Brees in New Orleans. That, of course, like most things here is just rank speculation. Not enough data to say. People like to think if there is a QB change, all the line problems, running back problems, receiver issues go away.

In the past, I have referred to this phenomenon as David Carr fatigue. That no matter how awful the rest of the team looks, people want to pin everything on DC. If you look at John McClain's blog during the Jets game, he says that the press box was wondering why DC wasn't benched. (Partly because Rosenfels hand was done busted among other reasons--he does go on to say that other stuff sucked along with the QB play). link

In the Jets game, Lundy and Gado combined for 15 yards in 11 attempts. This stat blew my mind. 11 for 15 freaking yards. That isn't ever supposed to happen. EVER EVER EVER! I wish I could blot it from my brain.

Yet, if you listened to talk radio at the time, it was all DC.

I hope that whatever happens works to the benefit of all--staying or going. I can see the arguments each way, and whatever happens, I hope it doesn't result in something more ruinous.

Thanks for the interesting post Hulk. Don't let the haters and baiters get you down.
 
I think that Carr is still going to have some great years in the NFL.

I personally would like to see them with the Texans because I really like him as a person (from what you hear about him) and wouldn't follow him so much on another team.

I hope Carr goes to a contender if he leaves and not to another losing situation with a porous line and shaky coaching/management situation.
 
TwinSisters said:
Dave had 8 20+ yard strikes in SEP. Even if he had kept that up into DEC, that would have still left him with 32 20+ strikes.

Rookie Leinart has 35 in only 11 starts with a crappy line ( although better WRs ). 35 deep passes in his rookie year bests 4 of 5 in Carr's entire career.

I don't think the injury had much to do with it, if you are talking about the year he had to sit out a few games. The season right after that was his peak at 3500 yards and nearly 50 20+ yard passes.
Click to expand...

Are those throws that are 20+ yards or completions that are 20+ yards? It would be interesting to see a chart of where his passes were completed vs. other QB's.

I could be misremembering the injury but I seem to remember a game late in 2004 where David went down on his shoulder funky. Something wants to think it was an indoor game... maybe Indy. IIRC, he left the field holding his shoulder but came back out the next series like nothing was wrong. I've had multiple partial tears of my rotator cuff (from powerlifting) and when I saw him go down, I was writhing on the floor in sympathy because my RC would have snapped like an old guitar string on that hit.

Since that time (if it even happened), I don't think I've seen the same sort of confidence or velocity in his deeper throws.

And that's why I think he might have an RC problem. No real proof or evidence but that's never stopped me before.
 
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